SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

“I am both cynical and judgmental, but I will say this: thirty-two years is not fake. Kids are not fake. Everything that happened in that period is not invalidated by what preceded it. It could be seen as your wife coming back to her senses after deluding herself that she was going to run off with a guy she subsequently found was nothing but a snake-oil salesman.

That experience may well have educated her about the value of real love versus delusions, and the difference between people who feel something real for her as opposed to people who are simply using her.”

mrplspls:

M1965 reflects my view. You have known for thirty years that early in your M your WW professed love for another man. Now you have learned further details about her PA with that man. In the intervening thirty years your M continued and by your account your WW has been faithful, committed and a caring partner. We can conjecture all we like about her authenticity and proclaim our doubts about her reasons for staying in the M. But it is only conjecture. Your desire to stay in your M is totally understandable. You need to do what you need to heal. You can’t rugsweep. Your WW has to be forthcoming with whatever questions you have. Bigger mentioned the possible use of a polygraph if you are unsatisfied. Focus on you and what you need. Good luck.

Beenthereinco is totally on the money regarding memories.

See the series about the Unabomber? The only witness to have seen him was asked to help a sketch-artist draw a picture the day after she saw him, and then again a few days or weeks later. Big difference in the sketches because the later one turned out to be the witnesses memory of the original sketch-artist. The truth in memory is what we make of it.

It’s also true that poly-questions need to be unemotional and yes and no based.

I’m not focusing on the poly. I only see it as a tool. What is important IMHO is that you get your answers and reach a place where you are satisfied that you know enough to move on. You can chose to take your wife at face value but at some point you need to feel like you can work on whatever resentment and doubt this discovery brought you. The poly could be a tool to get to that point, but you can also evaluate the last 30 years and believe your wife. As long as YOU can move on and as long as YOU are content with your decision.

FWIW I too agree with the sentiment M1965 is sharing.

We can conjecture all we like about her authenticity

No need for conjecture or guesswork. She’s an admitted liar who lied throughout three decades.

Lying and especially lying repeatedly by it’s very nature lacks authenticity. Unless one is authentically being a lying liar.

That’s just a brute fact.

[This message edited by Thumos at 9:09 AM, October 20th (Tuesday)]

@mrplspls - Let me help cut through this for you. There are really only several things you need to do:

1) Decide what you need to know - how much of the truth - you need in order to process and make your decisions

2) Insist on learning that information - however much it is - from your wife.

3) After processing the information, following up to learn whatever else is exposed via the information process, and you feel you know what you need to know, then decide if it is acceptable or unacceptable to continue a life with the person who lied and cheated on you.

4) Take action on your decision.

If you decide to attempt reconciliation, you let your wife know exactly what the rules, boundaries, and expectations she needs to abide by are for you to attempt reconciliation. This is not a negotiation, and you reserve the right to call it quits if it is not working for you.

If you decide that you cannot continue living with somebody who would try to cheat on and plan to leave you in what was essentially the honeymoon stages of your marriage, then lie to you about it for 33 years, then you need to plan what your life looks like without her.

***

This sounds straightforward, but it really isn't for most of us. You need to be on guard for manipulation of all types, since it has already happened.

A wise question

Yet here you are, on the JFO page of an infidelity forum, clearly in pain. What I can't tell is what you want from us.

Does the pain ease?

What can I do to ease it?

What can she do to ease it?

we do?

Time frame of my suffering is sought....

Does the pain ease?

What can I do to ease it?

What can she do to ease it?

we do?

Time frame of my suffering is sought....

Yes the pain will ease with time. As to what either of you can do to ease it I think you need to allow yourself to grieve your marriage. I'm not a slave to the 5 stages of grief or anything but I do think there is a process and you are in it now and for you it just happened. I think for someone that found out after so much time there are some very conflicting emotions. First you don't have to think ahead and try to project what your life will be like with your WW for the next 20 years or so after the Affair. You already know that but on the other hand you have a long time now to deal with and think about what was real.

My WW's Affair lasted, the first time, for a bit over 8 months. During that time we had a vacation, some holidays, a birthday for both of us, etc. My memory of those events was changed because I knew that she was sneaking a look at her phone when we were at an anniversary dinner, texting the AP from the bathroom at Disney Land while I stood outside, etc. That year was just a mess in my mind. For you it is a lot more years, a lot more events, and I am sure you are wondering like I did. Was she really "there" for these events or was she "with him"? Mentally I mean. I know she was physically with you but mentally it took me awhile to reconcile with that. I had a hard time on the next anniversary for example. I suspect you will as well. Time and distance is all I can say will help.

What can she do? Well she can start by being understanding. She needs to allow you to ask questions, even if they are ones you've already asked, she needs to allow you to be angry (not abusive just angry) when you want. She needs to never say to you " Ok plusplus it is time to get over this" (At least for the foreseeable future.)

It is an unsatisfying answer I know and one that ultimately failed for me because I finally left my WW years later. (Of course finding out that she kept an on-going conversation for years with the AP just checking in to see if they were both still married didn't help. ) I just don't know of another one besides time.

Look for a post here is this Forum from HauntedSoul

Kaliber makes a response about this very question of yours. He hits it out of the park.

[This message edited by SlapNutsABingo at 2:38 PM, October 20th (Tuesday)]

mrplspls, something is not adding up!

First of all, she lied to you for 33 years, she is not a truthful person!

Second, she told you:

that it was physical only.

Then you said:

She had declared love for him one night when she was of the mind to provoke an end to the marriage.

Are you seeing inconsistency here?!

How can it be physical only when she declared love for him?!

You don't have the full truth!

And then for the DNA test you said:

As to DNA testing, if my WS is accurate, her relationship with him ended June 10 1988. He moved away from our city at the end of that June. My wife and I began trying to conceive June 1989. I have always had full confidence that my son is mine.

Read this again: if my WS is accurate!

So you're basing your information on what she told you, you even called her a WS, yet, you believe her!

You have no way of known if it's the full truth or the dates are accurate!

You don't even know if she was faithful all these years known now what she is capable of!

Your last reply sound you are in a very dark place and very hurt, yet, you refuse to act as human and push back!

You are in a complete hopeless mode!

Believing every thing she says!

It's sad really that you are reconciling but you don't truly know what you're reconciling about!

Even in your post there are things which doesn't add up, but you chose to look the other way and not face the challenge!

How can we help you if you choose to stay in the dark!

mrplspls, it's OK to act human, you are human. It's OK to show anger and push back and search for the full truth.

You need the full truth so you know what you are reconciling about!

It's perfectly fine to reconcile, you have been married for so long, but you must do it right, so you can have peace and live in peace!

You came here for a reason..

[This message edited by Kaliber at 3:46 PM, October 20th (Tuesday)]

After reading your subsequent responses, it sounds as if your WW spouse let the cat out of the bag rather than consciously deciding to tell you about the affair. I would subject her to a polygraph in order to get a legitimate timeline and whether there were other affairs. You need to know the full picture so that you can begin to heal. If the polygraph supports what she is saying, you have a much better chance at R. If it reveals more, either by her volunteering more before the exam or by her failure of the exam, then you will have to process the new information and decide what you want to do.

[This message edited by src9043 at 4:44 PM, October 20th (Tuesday)]

It will probably take 3-5 years to get to a significantly better place . She can help by being honest and understanding that you may not be your best self for a while

I think the healing library has some good books she should do alot of reading to understand the depth of the pain you are going through .

Also its common for cheaters to get defensive and avoidant its best to let her know you need a real partner in recovery and she has to let you process things at your pace and with the detail you need .

She should expect anger and criticism - she had better be able to handle that with the same grace that you have shown while handling this bombshell

Thanks, still reading and considering and hurting and trying to understand and weighing and some days struggling.

Today is a struggling day.

3-5 years seems a long road, not sure that we can struggle on that long....

3-5 years seems a long road, not sure that we can struggle on that long....

Lose the "We"!

"We" didn't cheat.

"We" didn't lie for 33 years.

You need to figure out what you can accept and you need the information to know what it is you will or won't try to accept.

Emphasis on the "try" part.

***

Also, this rather arbitrary 3-5 year number is not some scientific fact. Plenty of betrayed partners decide late in that period or even afterwards that they cannot keep on with their cheater.

And plenty of cheaters keep on lying and/or cheating well into 3-5 years and beyond.

So you need to decide if you want to invest the 3-5 years (and the rest of your life) trying to accept a proven liar and cheater as your life partner, be able to trust her when she is not in your presence, etc.

YOU NEED TO KNOW MORE.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 1:47 PM, October 21st (Wednesday)]

I get it. I found out 30 years ago and still get pangs every now and then. The first year or so is the absolute worst, and that's when R is supposedly in full fix it mode.

Look at it this way, what other choices are there? Some here argue that D is a proper way to go, so she gets some consequences. I don't suspect that is going to happen.

Have you spoken to a physician? There are some strategies that might help.

I totally get that you are not satisfied with her version of events, and if you are like me you will be mentally bringing up scenarios forever. Why did she say that in 1992? What did she mean by her comment in 1990? Where did she really go in 1989? This is normal. And of course, 10 to 1 she will have no idea what you are talking about if you bring it up.

The reality is that she closed the book on her bad behavior a long time ago. So she genuinely won't even know how to respond to things that stuck with you.

So two things. Keep showing up! Every day is new. find something that gives you joy and live it.

And the other. I keep on harping on grief counselling. That is not the same as MC or IC. There are people who specialize in getting others through irreparable loss. They don't talk about what you did as a child or whether it's really your fault for what happened. They help people get through the death of a child, spouse or marriage and try to frame the pain and deal with it.

This is what you need. It's a lot harder to do alone. There's nothing wrong with getting help.

Also, this rather arbitrary 3-5 year number is not some scientific fact. Plenty of betrayed partners decide late in that period or even afterwards that they cannot keep on with their cheater.

3-5 years is anecdotal, but there is a LOT of anecdotal evidence. I wouldn’t be surprised if some enterprising scientist finds a brain chemistry reason (after all they just this week discovered a previously unknown organ in our heads). It probably has something to do with appropriately processing normal healthy moral emotions like anger and also allowing the brain time to process cognitive dissonance.

That said 3-5 years isn’t for reconciliation. 3-5 years is for you to heal from the trauma. Two different things. Reconciliation takes much longer after you recover, and it lasts a lifetime.

I am at 4 years from DDAY for my WW’s 3 month affair in 2016 (started about this time in October four years ago). I am much better off than even a year ago. I decided on a divorce path in August and have been working toward that goal of an amicable divorce since then. Just to give you some idea.

[This message edited by Thumos at 2:02 PM, October 21st (Wednesday)]

The estimate is 2 to 5 years as the time required to heal. Some say 3 to 5. My own experience is the longer time frame. What isn't said with that is the calendar flips back to the start with new information. That's why TT is so deadly. It's better to rip the band aid off than pull off slowly. The quicker you get the information you need the better for you.

I don't know if you ever completely heal or return to how you were. Some say they have. I doubt I ever will. There are recent posts of members who have DDays over 10 years ago who recently had something trigger them pretty harshly. Lots of us have what amounts to minor triggers we learn how to deal with. They're minor because we've developed the techniques.

I get the feeling that even if you knew way back then that it happened, you still would've stayed with her.

Am I right?

It's all up to you. Immediately? 1 year? 3 to 5 years? Never?

Right now this is the rawest thing you probably will ever or have gone through. Like they say it's new to you and 33 years old for her, she has dealt with it in her own way except for the "ending".

Figure it out for yourself, take the advice here as you need it but you don't owe it to SI to divorce. Or reconcile. It's between you and the WW.

I get the feeling that even if you knew way back then that it happened, you still would've stayed with her.

Yet I keep coming back to the gut feeling that he did know back then.

I'm still confused as to how she could tell him back then she loved another man and was prepared to leave him and not assume it was a physical relationship. Still confused on this point.

OP has said he thought it was a "crush" at the time -- I'm trying to put himself in his shoes and imagining my wife telling me she loved another man and was prepared to leave me for him and thinking it was just a crush that would blow over.

That said 3-5 years isn’t for reconciliation. 3-5 years is for you to heal from the trauma.

3-5 years is anecdotal, but there is a LOT of anecdotal evidence. I wouldn’t be surprised if some enterprising scientist finds a brain chemistry reason (after all they just this week discovered a previously unknown organ in our heads). It probably has something to do with appropriately processing normal healthy moral emotions like anger and also allowing the brain time to process cognitive dissonance.

Sounds about right, and I think we agree for the most part.

My point is, all too often, the 3-5 years is conflated with a successful reconciliation.

Sure, "Time heals all wounds" - so for example, if you are beat up by your neighbor, you are generally less distressed aboutit in the sense of obsessing over the feelings of that beating 3-5 years out, but it doesn't mean that in 3-5 years you're "cool" with that neighbor.

A successful reconciliation with that neighbor means you aren't mad at them for kicking your ass, and you aren't looking over your shoulder wary of that next punch.

What makes cheating even worse is that you don't even know how many different times or ways you got your ass kicked!

So in my opinion:

- Pain of being betrayed by a cheater less fresh and sharp in 3-5 years, sure, probably.

- Truly reconciled from the betrayal of cheating in 3-5 years? Perhaps, but only if you can actually reconcile with that person. And I see reconciling as a "either you can do it, or you can't" type of resolution.

And that is why I always advise to find out as much as you can before ATTEMPTING to reconcile.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 3:21 PM, October 21st (Wednesday)]