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D-Day 3 I’m just ..I don’t know

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Shockedmom ( member #44708) posted at 3:34 AM on Tuesday, October 20th, 2020

SeeYa,

After going through her phone and becoming a first hand witness to their affair you set yourself up for some long lasting trauma. I know the attorney search is critical however your mental health is important too. Find a therapist with infidelity experience to help you navigate this mess. Post infidelity stress disorder can be devastating.

posts: 1062   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2014   ·   location: Hawaii
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squid ( member #57624) posted at 4:37 AM on Tuesday, October 20th, 2020

As much of a gut punch all of this continued discovery must bring you, it's reassuring to know that all of your hunches have been confirmed.

I know many of us, myself included, were twisted in knots inside wondering if D was the right path or not. At least now you know.

BH
D-Day 2.19.17
Divorced 12.10.18

This isn’t what any of us signed up for. But it is the hand that we have been dealt. Thus, we must play it.

posts: 2582   ·   registered: Feb. 26th, 2017   ·   location: Central Florida
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RocketRaccoon ( member #54620) posted at 5:12 AM on Tuesday, October 20th, 2020

As I said before yes you are correct she was pushing it. And no they did not physically meet up from D-Day until the end of February when she ended it.

I highly doubt she was the one who ended it.

My take is that she had her meltdown at the party when she saw her AP with another woman. This gave her a visual cue that he has moved on from her, whilst she was till holding on for him.

He binge drinking was not to quell nerves because she saw him, and it dragged out humiliating feelings of her A. She possibly did feel humiliation, but it was probably because she was waiting for someone who had moved on to another target. Her stash of Hopium disappeared there and then.

You cannot cure stupid

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Buffer ( member #71664) posted at 6:36 AM on Tuesday, October 20th, 2020

How true ^^^

Buffer

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 SeeYaIamOut (original poster member #75524) posted at 3:43 PM on Tuesday, October 20th, 2020

Shockedmom

After going through her phone and becoming a first hand witness to their affair you set yourself up for some long lasting trauma. I know the attorney search is critical however your mental health is important too. Find a therapist with infidelity experience to help you navigate this mess. Post infidelity stress disorder can be devastating.

Possibly. I went through all of this three years ago and went the therapy route so a lot of this is not necessarily new. I will admit the past couple of days I have been more...sad for lack of a better term, than anything. I really thought there would be a lot more anger. There was initially. I'm almost just numb to it at this point. Numb is a better description. Right now my strength to deal with this on a mental level is gone. At this point it's more of a work project that just has to get done no matter how hard the work or shitty the people I have to deal with.

squid

As much of a gut punch all of this continued discovery must bring you, it's reassuring to know that all of your hunches have been confirmed.

Interesting you said that. There are a couple of things that are nagging me as a result of reading the phone data. I mentioned earlier that I might post a synopsis of the information I found, but I need to get myself in better frame of mind. I am not interested in posting any salacious details, and won't, but I am interested to see if it raises any red flags to you folks like it did me.

RocketRaccoon

I highly doubt she was the one who ended it.

My take is that she had her meltdown at the party when she saw her AP with another woman. This gave her a visual cue that he has moved on from her, whilst she was till holding on for him.

He binge drinking was not to quell nerves because she saw him, and it dragged out humiliating feelings of her A. She possibly did feel humiliation, but it was probably because she was waiting for someone who had moved on to another target. Her stash of Hopium disappeared there and then.

You very well may be right, but just using what I know happened is bad enough. She ended it based on the last few messages. If, as my father says, I go "chasing rabbits" it just drives me more insane.

While it has really done a number on me by reading the info on the phone, I think in the long term it was beneficial. A lot of people never get the amount of detail I have and I guess that's a double edged sword. But right now its pretty bad. I have taken the week off. I can concentrate on the lawyer search (update on that below) and really get these things out of the way so I can get back to as much of a normal day to day routine as fast as possible. It also helps me by not having to deal with all the bull from work. They won't leave me alone and are wanting to negotiate my staying and all I want to do is leave.

She continues to text and follows the same script, "DS (insert some info about son that usually is not important). Then follow up with something to the affect of, "I hope you are well", "I miss you and I am so sorry", or when she is in a particularly bad way, "I can't live without you", "I messed up so bad I know please let's talk", or "Believe me you cannot hate me any more than I hate myself"...she ends with, "I will always love you, and want to fix this". After the information about my son is sent I usually just lay the phone down and walk away. I just cannot get mind to comprehend how you profess such love to someone and do this.

The second lawyer was bust. Fifteen minute Zoom meeting and he answered his cell phone twice during the meeting. After the second cell call I just terminated the meeting. I called the lawyer from yesterday and made arrangement to pay her fee with her secretary. I was told to expect a call from her within the hour so I am waiting on that.

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longsadstory1952 ( member #29048) posted at 5:07 PM on Tuesday, October 20th, 2020

So does she know you found the phone yet?

Are you going to drop the bomb or just continue as you are?

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Shockedmom ( member #44708) posted at 6:29 PM on Tuesday, October 20th, 2020

Glad you committed to the first attorney. Your plan to strategically excise your WW from your life with little emotion is sound. Gray rock method when dealing with her continued attempts to engage you will hopefully be successful.

Hope your son is doing better. Best luck going forward.

posts: 1062   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2014   ·   location: Hawaii
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 SeeYaIamOut (original poster member #75524) posted at 6:34 PM on Tuesday, October 20th, 2020

longsadstory1952

So does she know you found the phone yet?

Are you going to drop the bomb or just continue as you are?

No she does not know. Lawyer says to keep it to myself right now

Quick update:

My new lawyer called me back not long after I posted the above update. She requested my financials most of which she can get from my personal lawyer. The other stuff I am working on right now. She laid out a best case, worse case, and the most likely case based on my situation. Which was just a more detailed conversion of the one we had yesterday. The age of my minor son is a huge plus and custody issues should be minimal. Especial since the likely hood of this being over before his eighteenth birthday in January is virtually impossible. From our conversation the things I will be on the hook for as it pertains to him I would have done anyway. She could be eligible for alimony but adultery does affect alimony and it also affects property division in my state.

She gave me the options that are available to me. I can file for “Proven Adultery” based on the original D-Day messages I have. But she suggested agreeing to basically, irreconcilable differences to encourage her cooperation in coming to an agreement and have an uncontested divorce. We can always change it. It's really way too early to predict how we will do this. We’ll see.

A question for everyone...whats the best way to approach informing the STBXWW about the divorce. I have told her I plan on divorcing her but I am sure she thinks its just a threat right now. I am of the opinion that I need to sit her down and let her know face-to-face. Try to be civil about it as long as I can to try to make it more likely we can come to a mutually agreeable plan. I fully expect her to get an attorney but before that maybe lay the ground work for a more amicable split. I realize this is probably not a realistic approach. But to me cold serving her papers is a broadside that shocks and then more than likely will produce anger that might poison any civility between us. Right now she is in save the marriage mode. Serving her papers may push her into crazy insane mode. If I can approach this in a way that we can talk it out and, I know this sounds manipulative, leave a little glimmer of hope of possibly later on we try to date or something afterwards, it would make her more rational. I have already asked my lawyer and she suggests to wait and let her work up a proposal and then she and I will discuss it. She has seen it work (sitting down with the STBX)more than you would think but has seen it go really really bad too. But I would like to get others perspective because you may have experienced or think of something I have not.

Looking for input so don't be shy.

***Edited bold text**** I looked back on my notes and realized the lawyer said while she is eligible for alimony adultery DOES affect alimony in my state. And it does affect property division. My attorney warned though that it is still better to try and come to a mutual agreement than to rely on the judge. Better to KNOW than to HOPE.

[This message edited by SeeYaIamOut at 12:53 PM, October 20th (Tuesday)]

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SlapNutsABingo ( member #71353) posted at 6:40 PM on Tuesday, October 20th, 2020

Without specifically telling your STBXW about the phone discovery, are you going to let her know that you know she stayed in contact with him?

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KingofNothing ( member #71775) posted at 6:58 PM on Tuesday, October 20th, 2020

My experience was me informing her I will be divorcing her. Our kids were older, custody wasn't really a big issue except for one kid and that was ironically not the big divisive issue. Most contention came from me making the huge mistake of trying for reconciliation far too early because A) I was at the time a devout Catholic, and that's just what was expected; B) I caved in to expectations and the perception that I'm nice and forgiving, and not mean spirited and vengeful. C) The old "men don't cry" bullshit that says we just suffer stoically.

My history isn't the point of your question, but it has a bearing on what you are asking about. Because we had attempted reconciliation, my wife's ability to dictate a rug-sweeping "we already handled this" approach towards problems made her think I was totally peachy keen with the post- reconciliation reality of life. I wasn't. I suffered from Depression, high blood pressure, and all kinds of low grade ways of my mind sabotaging my health, and a profound sense of dismay anticipating the joyless life ahead of me-- day after day, year after year.

As you are anticipating, it is a discussion best suited for the both of you, with no third parties. I arranged it. I told her of my intention. Immediate desperation kicked in. But I thought we were over this! How could you give up on our family like that! Everything that I pretty much could bet your wife is about to say, my wife said. I told her that I was sorry, I did the best I could but some hurts are not going away, despite therapy, despite time-- the hurt, the emasculation, the hypocrisy.. it was too much and I wasn't getting over it. What helped was that I communicated that I did NOT hate her.. she did what she did and I was still angry about it. I couldn't get over that AND be married to her. I had discovered too much, seen too much, read too many emails to her toxic friends dragging me down. There was nothing left to save, and to continue pretending that it would get better for either of us was not doing either of us any good. I did feel some level of love and empathy for her, but the marriage that I cherished was gone forever. The fact that she was still in her toxic group of divorce enablers after I left, going to the same events,etc. There were a lot of tears, but I did communicate that I would be better on my own and lonely than with her and miserable.

That's pretty much how it went. Took about half a day to get her to come around, but she did see the light. Three years later, we're not friends, not going to ever be friends any more-- and I mourn that but it's more like someone important is missing or dead from my life than something I want from her now.

Rex Nihilo, the King of Nothing
----------------------------------
“If you’re going through hell, keep going. Just please stop screaming, it’s not good for morale.”
— Winston Churchill

BS 3 DDays/Attempted R, it failed. In a better place

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 SeeYaIamOut (original poster member #75524) posted at 7:04 PM on Tuesday, October 20th, 2020

SlapNutsABingo

Without specifically telling your STBXW about the phone discovery, are you going to let her know that you know she stayed in contact with him?

I guess what I'm thinking is just meet her and tell her I have spoken to a lawyer. Here is our proposal. And when she starts up with the "Why?", "We can work this out", and "We can get through this" I'll just tell her I can't handle her lying. And when she inevitably tells me that she has told me everything I'll just says something to the affect, "No you have not. I KNOW you are still lying." And repeat it until she volunteers the rest or gets tired and leaves. I will let her know eventually. And I will definitely record it if we go that route. Hell I will even tell her I'm recording it. For my own protection. But again, I'll defer to my lawyer.

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SlapNutsABingo ( member #71353) posted at 7:12 PM on Tuesday, October 20th, 2020

I was kind of going the KingOfNothing rout. She is going to want a "Why".

[This message edited by SlapNutsABingo at 1:12 PM, October 20th (Tuesday)]

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beenthereinco ( member #56409) posted at 7:12 PM on Tuesday, October 20th, 2020

I think I'd tell her myself if I were in your shoes, in fact when I was in your shoes that is what I did. The amicable divorce more or less worked out but once she got an attorney it really just became whatever the formulas from the state said for maintenance and it really didn't matter whether she was blindsided or not. Kids were older so no CS and she didn't want the dog which I would have traded a lot of furniture for.

The biggest issue we had was over a rug after that and I didn't get the damn thing.

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 SeeYaIamOut (original poster member #75524) posted at 7:15 PM on Tuesday, October 20th, 2020

KingofNothing

Because we had attempted reconciliation, my wife's ability to dictate a rug-sweeping "we already handled this" approach towards problems made her think I was totally peachy keen with the post- reconciliation reality of life. I wasn't. I suffered from Depression, high blood pressure, and all kinds of low grade ways of my mind sabotaging my health, and a profound sense of dismay anticipating the joyless life ahead of me-- day after day, year after year.

While I did not suffer the physical issues during our failed reconciliation I realize now how much of an emotional and mental strain it was. My current job situation began to sour a little over a year ago when she claims I became more withdrawn and seemed to check out. I am hard pressed to identify which came first but I am leaning toward the checking out of the marriage. With information I know now I am pretty sure that any attempt to rewrite history our reconciliation would blow up all in her face.

As you are anticipating, it is a discussion best suited for the both of you, with no third parties. I arranged it. I told her of my intention. Immediate desperation kicked in. But I thought we were over this! How could you give up on our family like that! Everything that I pretty much could bet your wife is about to say, my wife said. I told her that I was sorry, I did the best I could but some hurts are not going away, despite therapy, despite time-- the hurt, the emasculation, the hypocrisy.. it was too much and I wasn't getting over it. What helped was that I communicated that I did NOT hate her.. she did what she did and I was still angry about it. I couldn't get over that AND be married to her. I had discovered too much, seen too much, read too many emails to her toxic friends dragging me down. There was nothing left to save, and to continue pretending that it would get better for either of us was not doing either of us any good. I did feel some level of love and empathy for her, but the marriage that I cherished was gone forever.

Thanks for this. I am not the best at expressing myself some times but this is a great frame work for me use. You have been a tremendous help.

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 SeeYaIamOut (original poster member #75524) posted at 7:22 PM on Tuesday, October 20th, 2020

I realize I am posting a lot but it's been very good for me today. I just wanted to thank you all.

Also, I have begun working on a way to post a broad overview of the phone info. I'll try to post it later today if I finish. I am really curious if any of you hit on the same red flags as I did after reading it. These are really bugging me and I am not sure I'll be able to convey it through my post adequately but I am willing to give it a try.

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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 7:30 PM on Tuesday, October 20th, 2020

Three years later, we're not friends, not going to ever be friends any more

What happened over the past three years to damage the amicable nature of the parting? Her choice? Just curious as I look ahead.

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 7:34 PM on Tuesday, October 20th, 2020

Hell I will even tell her I'm recording it. For my own protection.

The way you’ve outlined it sounds like it will get pretty heated in any case, so maybe just serving her would be better?

I think the distanced grey rock approach would be better and then she can find out you know thru your attorney. Let your attorney guide you.

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

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farsidejunky ( member #49392) posted at 7:40 PM on Tuesday, October 20th, 2020

SeeYa:

I'm curious about your intent to post the info from the burner phone.

If you know you are divorcing, are you just looking for validation of the red flags you believe you are seeing? Does that really matter at this point?

As for the inevitable confrontation, you need to plan for a meltdown of epic proportions. Not the "set you up for DV" type of meltdown, but more along the lines of your wife being unable to see any way forward. She is submissive in nature, and I suspect 'abandonment' (her view, not mine) will trigger some pretty deep rooted fears.

I am not suggesting you should do anything different, as I would be done as well. Simply put, forewarned is forearmed.

Sorry you have found yourself in this, brother.

“Never make someone a priority when all you are to them is an option.”

-Maya Angelou

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 SeeYaIamOut (original poster member #75524) posted at 8:17 PM on Tuesday, October 20th, 2020

farsidejunky

I'm curious about your intent to post the info from the burner phone.

If you know you are divorcing, are you just looking for validation of the red flags you believe you are seeing? Does that really matter at this point?

As for the inevitable confrontation, you need to plan for a meltdown of epic proportions. Not the "set you up for DV" type of meltdown, but more along the lines of your wife being unable to see any way forward. She is submissive in nature, and I suspect 'abandonment' (her view, not mine) will trigger some pretty deep rooted fears.

I am not suggesting you should do anything different, as I would be done as well. Simply put, forewarned is forearmed.

That's a valid point. Maybe it's just that I want want to understand it so bad that I'm seeing things in this information that aren't really there and I need that put to rest. In my original post I stated her affair appears to have went from 0 to 100 over night. Thinking back this has always bothered me. As of today I know how it ended. I know what was said and done in the middle of it. And I possess more information about her affair probably than most BS's ever get to know. But as I look at the beginning, I see a hole there. I see not only a different her in the phone data but the interactions are not making the type of connection that I feel should be there for such a quick developing affair. I still question three years later if I could have prevented it. I know she is responsible for her actions and the destruction of our marriage. But the "what if" still sits there.

I think I also need to honestly say that there is a part of me that wants people to know what she did. Our kids do not know how bad she acted. Neither does her mom as far as I know. I will not tell any of them. I know of no one that knows what I know but me, her, and, him. I have to say honestly I hate that. And feeling that way really really upsets me. I still love this woman. How, I do not know. I will not stay with her. But I love her. And at the same time it rips me apart that she gets to hide what she did. The world gets a sanitized version. Just another divorce statistic. Poor kids. They're parents just couldn't work it out.

Does it matter? In the long run I am pretty sure it doesn't. But right now? Yeah it does. That is about as honest as I can get with you on that.

posts: 61   ·   registered: Sep. 24th, 2020
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Stinger ( member #74090) posted at 8:31 PM on Tuesday, October 20th, 2020

I will never understand not disclosing in a dignified manner. No billboards or things like that. But, I was not taking the rap,for the divorce.

If you do decide to disclose, make sure you come off as low key, not vindictive etc. Otherwise, you run into fundamental attribution error problems.

Read up on it to understand it.

posts: 697   ·   registered: Mar. 24th, 2020
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