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Just Found Out :
D-Day 3 I’m just ..I don’t know

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 SeeYaIamOut (original poster member #75524) posted at 2:55 AM on Thursday, October 15th, 2020

The1stWife

I hope this last Dday (3rd ) helps you to understand the choices you were forced to make.

Thank you for this because this is exactly how I feel right now. I am being FORCED to make decisions. This goes to my core as someone that has been very conscientious about any decision making.

Thumos

Gently you should probably stop thinking this way. I don’t want to add to your burden and I’m so sorry about this.

This wasn’t temporary insanity. She didn’t forget about the phone.

I always found it helpful to think about the difference between possibility and probability.

It’s possible it was temporary insanity. It’s possible she forgot about the phone.

Neither is probable. It stretches credulity to think otherwise.

When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

Yeah I don't believe it either but in an attempt to regain some of that control I was speaking of above, I'm just labeling it and putting it in a box.

Stevesn

Her reply was, “That’s the problem I found myself in when you came back home. If I told you the truth how could I prove it was only phone calls. I could only do then what I am doing now. Tell you and pray you believe me because I have no proof. But emotions were so raw and I knew how bad I had messed up. I did not think we could take another blow to our marriage and survive. I’m sorry I kept this from you then. But that is the truth. All of it.”

At the point you do confront, I believe it’s important to remind her of this statement.

I believe she loves you, but she is very broken.

I don’t think you’ve ever said what work you both did to reconcile? Did she ever work in IC to determine why she thought it was the right thing to do to start this relationship with him?

And now you know it continued in some fashion even after you “broke” him.

Someday she may be a safe partner for someone, but not until some real work on herself and who she is and who she wants to be. She lacks moral character right now.

D is definitely the right path. She’s unfortunately not a candidate right now for being with anyone. I think she has a long hard road of self analysis ahead of her and frankly it’s going to be rough.

Someday you may be able to create a new relationship but not as the person she is right now. I think you can coparent well in the meantime, but anything more than that type of partnership would be doomed to failure.

I feel for you. I actually feel empathy for her too. She can’t get out of her own way. I truly believe she wants a life with you but doesn’t know how to do it right. That’s sad.

I believe the scenario you pointed out in your post...possible R after D and her getting help...is probable where I was honestly prior to finding the phone.

So while I understand you are going to wait on exposure of these new revelations, it’s probably best you let her know that D is guaranteed, even if later you agree to try to build something new. No promises of that necessary.

I hope you are able to get that across to the family counselor so they can work with you all appropriately and not push you to do things that force your hand to reveal anything too soon.

This is a good place to address the family counseling thing. My son reacted in a very uncharacteristic way when this all exploded. He's pretty laid back and happy. He became quite angry and emotional as I think many of us would. But it was compounded by what he felt was all of us, his mother, his sister, and myself ,lying to him over the past three years. The counselor has touched on another reason in private with us but I'm not going into that. It is his and not mine to share.

The goal here is to help him process this in a way that does not further fracture the current family relationships and future relationships. Give him the tools to handle it on his own.

It is not about me and his mom getting back together. The counselor has been told by me privately that I plan on divorcing his mother. Tonight's session dealt with that in greater detail. In her email summary she sends to his mother and I after the sessions she actually wants to talk to him only next week.

Thumos

OP do you think your WW might have borderline personality disorder? Her behavior is really depraved and anti-social.

wearing masks like this, different personas to match the circumstance, is part and parcel to a BPD because they are hollow people who don’t have a real identity they can define.

Or at least there’s a debate about whether they actually have an authentic personality that one can find and redeem.

They are playing a part on a stage for whatever audience they happen to be performing for at the time.

It would explain a lot I guess but I have not seen anything else that would suggest it.

Lawyer called me while I was traveling. He has recommended a course of action that includes retaining an actual divorce attorney. His reasoning was sound as was his financial strategy and I have three referrals and I'll talk to them as soon as I can.

During the video counseling session I actually pu a sticky note over her face. Petty perhaps but it helped. I did my best to act normal but I obviously failed. After the session she sent a text to give her first impression on how our son was acting after counseling and included this:

"I'm glad you made it to XYZ okay. Are you feeling well? You seemed distant".

I ignored it and went and took a shower too get ready to go out and eat some supper. She sent a second text.

"I'm sorry. I know I broke the rules I was worried."

Ignored it also.

Had lunch with a couple of fellow worker drones. Tried to get some office gossip about the meeting tomorrow. No luck.

I know I say this a lot but ..Thank you all so much. You're making an old man feel better everyday.

posts: 61   ·   registered: Sep. 24th, 2020
id 8597670
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Buffer ( member #71664) posted at 3:01 AM on Thursday, October 15th, 2020

Strength brother and good luck. You have your head screwed on the right way, so just take care of you, so you can help the children.

Some have said that your wife is truly remorseful but to continue the degradation of you is just too much.

Next time you go over to get more stuff, just place the charged burner phone on her love notes. Then when she gets back there and sees it you would be able to gauge her by her actions.

One day at a time

[This message edited by Buffer at 9:55 PM, October 14th (Wednesday)]

Buffer

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Tigersrule77 ( member #47339) posted at 4:16 PM on Thursday, October 15th, 2020

What was the background of the attorney you were previously speaking with? Family law or something else? I'm sorry to hear that you are going to be seeking new counsel, as it will slow down the D, as I know you were anxious to put it behind you. However, as you believe this is the best decision for you, I hope it works out for the best. It would certainly be worth delaying the D if it helps you out long term.

I hope you enjoy the weekend with your daughter and I hope your meetings go well.

posts: 1558   ·   registered: Mar. 27th, 2015   ·   location: Maryland
id 8597854
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BrokenheartedUK ( member #43520) posted at 4:17 PM on Thursday, October 15th, 2020

Ugh. I'm so sorry. I know how painful it is to find out more information even if it validates your decision to D. It still is shocking.

It is said often here by many of us, that it's not the A in and of itself that is the dealbreaker in the M, it's the aftermath and how that is handled by the WS that is. The fact that your STBXW continued contact, continued to lie about that etc... is the actual dealbreaker. I'm sure that there was a part of you that was holding back in R because unconsciously you knew that she wasn't being honest. But we're so broken in our confidence in our perceptions after Dday 1 that it can take a long while to really re-establish that sense for ourselves.

But you were completely right to initiate the D proceedings from her drunken rant. She clearly has some work to be done on herself for a good long while but that's not your problem. There's some relief in that acceptance.

Look after yourself. Be kind to yourself. You're doing all the right things for yourself and your kids.

Me: BS
He cheated and then lied. Apparently cheaters lie. Huh. 13 months of false R. Divorced! 8/16 3 teenage kids
"The barn's burnt down
Now
I can see the moon"
-Mizuta Masahide

posts: 3341   ·   registered: May. 24th, 2014
id 8597855
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cf2018 ( member #70204) posted at 8:35 PM on Thursday, October 15th, 2020

Wondering how your work meeting went SeeYaIamOut?

posts: 70   ·   registered: Apr. 1st, 2019
id 8597998
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WalkingHome ( member #72857) posted at 9:27 PM on Thursday, October 15th, 2020

At some point, you will have to shut down her overtures to R.

It is debatable, whether to do it on your terms in a controlled way...or just to drop bombs whenever it blows up.

It can also alter how friendly your D goes...

Either way, you need to walk through your eventual confrontation. It has to happen sooner or later...and it works best if you have an opening salvo to finish that fight quickly and decisively.

End it with you as the good guy who tried...and her as the liar who kept on lying. Paint that picture with evidence. Finish it hard and get out before the meltdown.

posts: 222   ·   registered: Feb. 19th, 2020   ·   location: USA
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 SeeYaIamOut (original poster member #75524) posted at 11:03 PM on Thursday, October 15th, 2020

Hi folks,

I just stopped to top off my gas and decided to check in. I’m on my way to my Dad’s home.

What was the background of the attorney you were previously speaking with? Family law or something else? I'm sorry to hear that you are going to be seeking new counsel, as it will slow down the D, as I know you were anxious to put it behind you. However, as you believe this is the best decision for you, I hope it works out for the best. It would certainly be worth delaying the D if it helps you out long term.

My lawyer is family law/financial. I've used him since I was in my early twenties..or at least his father for five years until he retired and this is the son. He's helped with planning as well as wills, real estate,etc. He was okay with helping with a separation agreement. It was essentially a contract to ensure we had in writing who would pay what while we were separated. He told me that he would not represent me in a divorce. His wife does divorces but I'd rather not use her. I have a video meeting Monday and an in person meeting on Tuesday with two of the three referrals. The third has not called back.

Wondering how your work meeting went SeeYaIamOut?

Meeting was actually an introduction to the new "partners' '. Apparently we are "merging" with a larger company. Which means we were bought. It was myself and three division heads. I don't have a department but my work intersects with each of theirs. Imagine a Venn diagram… I'm that little shaded area that all three intersect....I listened to the introduction right up to the point they offered a job or we could take a severance package. I spoke up and said I'll take the severance packet and got up and left. So I'll be contacted next week sometime about how long I will be working and how much my payout will be. Not worried about employment that much. I can work numerous jobs with my degree and I just don't care enough to start over playing the corporate game.

Anyway from the time I left for the meeting and got back to the hotel it was less than ninety minutes.

I'm heading to my Dad's and I have decided to drop off the grid for a couple of days and go camping on his pond. I called my daughter who is coming home tomorrow and asked her to pick her brother up tomorrow and come to her granddad's...I'm heading into the woods tonight and camping through to Saturday. Shutting off my phone. My Dad can easily ride out to me in case there is an emergency. I need to get away and get some thinking done. Like I said in an earlier post I'm tired of reacting to things. I need to get a clear head and a clean slate.

P.S. I realized after reading this I sounded a little...arrogant and cocky about the job thing. It's not that. I have not been really happy the past year with the new blood coming in. They've ran off some really good talent. I work in a large global industry and I specialize in a very niche part of that industry. Finding a job is not going to be an issue and honestly....I'd trade money for a happier workplace.

posts: 61   ·   registered: Sep. 24th, 2020
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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 11:08 PM on Thursday, October 15th, 2020

Good for you. Enjoy the camping and rest.

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

posts: 4390   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8598085
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Shockedmom ( member #44708) posted at 12:24 AM on Friday, October 16th, 2020

Enjoy every moment of your camping adventure. Try not to get bogged down with the ugliness and let yourself recharge. Camping at your dads pond with your kids sounds amazing. Create some fun new memories with them.

posts: 1062   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2014   ·   location: Hawaii
id 8598118
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Buffer ( member #71664) posted at 12:43 AM on Friday, October 16th, 2020

Hi SeeYa;

Clear minds works wonders; so take time off the grid at the pond with Dad and the children.

Sorry, about the phone comment I did't read you returned it. Just listen to the lawyers and confront her the best way you feel is for you. You do need to get it off your chest with her. You know her, how is your STBX mentally?

Be at one with nature and yourself. When ready come back.

One day at a time.

Buffer

posts: 1207   ·   registered: Sep. 24th, 2019   ·   location: Australia
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KingofNothing ( member #71775) posted at 12:57 AM on Friday, October 16th, 2020

I realized after reading this I sounded a little...arrogant and cocky about the job thing. It's not that. I have not been really happy the past year with the new blood coming in. They've ran off some really good talent. I work in a large global industry and I specialize in a very niche part of that industry. Finding a job is not going to be an issue and honestly....I'd trade money for a happier workplace.

Not at all, actually. I recently lost a position due to contract bullshit-- I was given a choice to hang out on overhead for a few weeks looking for an alternative or take my own payout. I took the payout and I had multiple offers within the week. Sure, it felt awful and uncertain at the time but it was kind of life-affirming in some ways. Never get complacent!

I'm glad you're taking a mental health break, and I hope you have a few moments of Zen in the upcoming week. For all the shit sandwiches life serves up to us, there are some beautiful, quiet moments of reflection, too. That's the first baby steps towards letting go of the pain.

Rex Nihilo, the King of Nothing
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“If you’re going through hell, keep going. Just please stop screaming, it’s not good for morale.”
— Winston Churchill

BS 3 DDays/Attempted R, it failed. In a better place

posts: 774   ·   registered: Oct. 7th, 2019   ·   location: East Coast USA
id 8598132
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Bigger ( Guide #8354) posted at 12:20 PM on Friday, October 16th, 2020

Keep in mind a separation agreement that outlines who pays what is only binding for you and your wife and not necessarily for the creditor.

For example: If she is to pay the mortgage to ACME Bank but doesn’t they can foreclose on all the house, not only her 50%. You would be held accountable too. You could probably sue her, but that would be a long process.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

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id 8598283
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steadychevy ( member #42608) posted at 2:24 PM on Friday, October 16th, 2020

I'd trade money for a happier workplace

Just a comment. You obviously have a defined priority of life. You've thought about it and are strong in it. I suspect there are a lot of value/standards aspects of most of how you function and operate. Solid.

BH(me)70; XWW 64; M 42 yrs
DDay1-01/09/13;DDay2-26/10/13;DDay3-19/12/13;DDay4-21/01/14
LTA-09/02-06/06? OM - COW
"dates" w/3 lovers post engagement;ONS w/stranger post commitment, lies, lies, lies
Separated 23/09/2017; D 16/03/2020

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id 8598316
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Kaliber ( member #74046) posted at 4:58 PM on Friday, October 16th, 2020

SeeYaIamOut:

I'd trade money for a happier workplace.

Same thing, one of the main reasons why I didn't change my current job for a higher paid one!

SeeYaIamOut you're awesome!

[This message edited by Kaliber at 11:02 AM, October 16th (Friday)]

You don't have a choice of being a victim, but you always have a choice of remaining one!

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id 8598449
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Anna123 ( member #70908) posted at 2:48 PM on Saturday, October 17th, 2020

I am being FORCED to make decisions

Not only about whether to D or not.

You were forced to snoop, play detective, keep secrets of the snooping against your nature, take actions without your spouses knowledge which is probably against your core, doubt not just her but now other people in the future, worry about family in ways you never imagined, and in my humble opinion, forced to visit the 'gutter' world of liars and cheaters where you would never choose to go on your own.

Take care.

posts: 637   ·   registered: Jul. 1st, 2019   ·   location: USA
id 8598855
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 SeeYaIamOut (original poster member #75524) posted at 4:04 PM on Sunday, October 18th, 2020

Hi everyone,

We got back last night. I was able to spend Thursday evening and all day until about 6 PM by myself Friday. I needed that time alone. The kids and I had a long and very serious talk Friday evening after my father went back to his home. It was helpful. We finished the day Saturday fishing and visiting with their grandpa.

I turned my phone back on Saturday on the way home. A number of missed calls from work and a lot of texts from the STBXW. I have not listened to nor read any of the messages.

Sorry, about the phone comment I did't read you returned it. Just listen to the lawyers and confront her the best way you feel is for you. You do need to get it off your chest with her. You know her, how is your STBX mentally?

You good. From my few interactions which have been through the video sessions she's looks very haggard. At 48, she's still a very beautiful woman and has always kept herself slim and fit. Mentally, I can't say. She appears to be jumpy every time I see her.

Keep in mind a separation agreement that outlines who pays what is only binding for you and your wife and not necessarily for the creditor.

For example: If she is to pay the mortgage to ACME Bank but doesn’t they can foreclose on all the house, not only her 50%. You would be held accountable too. You could probably sue her, but that would be a long process.

I am making the mortgage payments. She cannot afford the house on her own even though she makes good money. I wanted documentation that I was paying the loan and that it was her responsibility to see to her own living expenses and a car that she bought. Remember I separated our finances three years ago and they have stayed that way even though I have managed hers. I did not want to be accused of abandoning the home or her and I also wanted a date to signify our actual separation.

Just a comment. You obviously have a defined priority of life. You've thought about it and are strong in it. I suspect there are a lot of value/standards aspects of most of how you function and operate. Solid.

My dad is a worker. Always has been. Work all week and gave my mom his paycheck. She spent her last two years alive teaching me basic home budgeting and how important planning was...Between the two I got the best real world teachings you can get while still living at home.

A little update.

I have laid out a broad plan for the next year. This is a just some broad targets to aim for as I navigate this crap-fest. I have my first lawyer meeting tomorrow. This lady was first on the list and called me back pretty quickly herself instead of using an assistant. I liked that so we'll see. I have the house to myself this afternoon and evening so I can work more on my goals but they are really going to be dictated by the divorce and how messy it may become.

posts: 61   ·   registered: Sep. 24th, 2020
id 8599151
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Unsure2019 ( member #71350) posted at 3:48 AM on Monday, October 19th, 2020

Just some thoughts.

At the party where you’re WW had a meltdown, she said she had no explanation for why she said the AP was the love of her life and that he wouldn’t come near her because of you. From the little you shared from the burner phone you found, you mentioned that she was pushing to see the AP again and that he was making excuses not to meet in person. I think this is the answer to why she blurted this out at the party when she was drunk. Stay the D course.

posts: 211   ·   registered: Aug. 21st, 2019   ·   location: California
id 8599350
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KingofNothing ( member #71775) posted at 5:35 PM on Monday, October 19th, 2020

I don't know. I have still not seen any evidence to point to that . In fact oddly enough, a month and a half into the continued contact and he is refusing to meet up with her physically.

Sorry to dredge this up again, but I'm getting the vibe from this sentence that SHE is initiating wanting to see him in person for a physical meeting, not him wanting to see her. Is that correct? Did any of the texts from him suggest a hookup? Or was it all on her?

Personally, although I would be as humiliated and disgusted as you, that odd "daddy" thing seems to be an all consuming narrative for younger women these days. My daughter had to explain it to me, which was embarrassing. It's not even what I would call 'age play' as such, just a lot of borderline dom/sub roleplaying. Shrug. Kids these days. That terminology is definitely sporting an "oogy factor".. yick.

I can understand your reaction to finding this material. Now, preparatory to my own DDay, I did find an treasure trove of emails with pictures included, but I was spared the sight of my forty-something blushing bride wearing a Japanese Schoolgirl outfit, thank Christ. That can't be an easy thing to unsee and you have my sympathy. I expect this has become the line in the sand for you, and I can't say I blame you.

[This message edited by KingofNothing at 11:44 AM, October 19th (Monday)]

Rex Nihilo, the King of Nothing
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“If you’re going through hell, keep going. Just please stop screaming, it’s not good for morale.”
— Winston Churchill

BS 3 DDays/Attempted R, it failed. In a better place

posts: 774   ·   registered: Oct. 7th, 2019   ·   location: East Coast USA
id 8599527
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 SeeYaIamOut (original poster member #75524) posted at 7:33 PM on Monday, October 19th, 2020

From the little you shared from the burner phone you found, you mentioned that she was pushing to see the AP again and that he was making excuses not to meet in person. I think this is the answer to why she blurted this out at the party when she was drunk.

I think this is exactly right.

Sorry to dredge this up again, but I'm getting the vibe from this sentence that SHE is initiating wanting to see him in person for a physical meeting, not him wanting to see her. Is that correct? Did any of the texts from him suggest a hookup? Or was it all on her?

As I said before yes you are correct she was pushing it. And no they did not physically meet up from D-Day until the end of February when she ended it. I KNOW this because like an idiot, I did not heed everyone's advice and went through all of it yesterday and last evening. I will probably post a synopsis at some point but ...no they never met up physically

Met my my future lawyer today. Very sharp lady.

I told her about the phone and just told her it basically was a roadmap of the affair and has very embarrassing video and pictures. As expected there is no legal worth to the information but she said if things got bad just letting her know I have the info might be to my advantage if she's afraid it will get out. She asked me not to reveal I have that information to STBXWW.

I have another lawyer to meet tomorrow via zoom.

posts: 61   ·   registered: Sep. 24th, 2020
id 8599568
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ramius ( member #44750) posted at 10:01 PM on Monday, October 19th, 2020

As expected there is no legal worth to the information but she said if things got bad just letting her know I have the info might be to my advantage if she's afraid it will get out. She asked me not to reveal I have that information to STBXWW.

Smart advice. Play the long game.

Westway may have some pointers on this type of situation, as he is in a similar position.

How many scars have you rationalized because you loved the person who was holding the knife?

Their actions reveal their intentions. Their words conceal them.

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id 8599636
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