SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You have gotten good advice. Gently, I think what you're looking for here (whether you realize it or not) is essentially permission to rugsweep. Because this is so painful, you're wishing for a short cut to get out of this. Unfortunately, that does not exist. (Most of us who have rugswept can tell you so from regretful experience.) Whatever is going on, her behavior as described is inappropriate and inexcusable.

Read through all of these forums. Then read them some more. Please don't assume your wife is the exception. I know that is a punch in the gut, but you need to understand that and be ready to face it in order to get to the truth. Re: Bible studies...these don't mean much if she isn't applying what she's learned. If you, however, have a relationship with God, you can pray for wisdom and strength.

Healing is possible...but not by ignoring the wounds.

(Edited for clarity.)

[This message edited by RosesandThorns at 7:48 AM, September 30th (Wednesday)]

Gently, I think what you're looking for here (whether you realize it or not) is essentially permission to rugsweep. Because this is so painful, you're wishing for a short cut to get out of this. Unfortunately, that does not exist. (Many of us who have done so can tell you this from unfortunate experience.)

^^^ I couldn't agree more.

usaskiteam you have indeed been offered invaluable advice from those here that have walked the walk. The last thing in the world any of us would have wished would have been to find ourselves on this website!

We know the pain you must be going through but please take off those rose tinted glasses. Your wife has some very serious questions to answer and probably a lot of introspection to do imo.

I wish you all the best.

'If you're going through hell, keep going'!

As another poster said eyes and ears open mouth shut, you do not want them to go underground.

For the sake of your short term and long term mental health do not start believing her lies. It's a puzzle where none of the pieces fit except with a hammer.

The timing is suspect as well only married for a year?

What do you know about the reasons your WW broke up with the father of her child? What do you know about her past did she cheat on prior partners.

I've know a number of women who go to church and still stray, they might want to become better wives, but the impulses they feel are only suppressed not eliminated.

Given that the OM is a serial cheater and your WW is much better looking than the OM, the likelihood that it is not physical is very very low.

Serial cheating OM get very good at making women feel appreciated and special very fast. It's also almost like their unattractiveness works to create sympathy.

My W OM3 was an 80 something year old serial cheater doctor who my W said was disgusting, yet she was driving him around getting his walker for him etc.

Write down everything she tells you,so she doesn't try to convince you she never said it. It's a form of gas lighting.

[This message edited by survrus at 8:35 AM, September 30th (Wednesday)]

Never ceases to amaze me, the confronting with no solid proof. I did it, too, unfortunately, with the naive expectation that I would get the truth.

Stonewalling and anger as responses are a sure sign of cheating. Completely abnormal response from someone who is innocent.

I used a PI thereafter. Got the evidence in a flash.

I would advise not to contact the wife of the boss. She could easily take his side to protect her interests. Or she could blow it all up way too early and then you lost any chance of finding facts on your own or with a PI or VAR.

Telling the OPS is best after you have indisputable facts, as a way of exposing the truth to all parties.

Never ceases to amaze me, the confronting with no solid proof. I did it, too, unfortunately, with the naive expectation that I would get the truth.

I think many of us have been there. I foolishly convinced myself that trying to get solid proof first (as in, hiring a PI) would've been dishonourable or would paint me as paranoid and possessive.

Stonewalling and anger as responses are a sure sign of cheating. Completely abnormal response from someone who is innocent.

Yeah, anger, crying and all the trimmings.

You already court them at bosses home over night and a motel. That is a big red flag.

I want you to be truthful – mainly to yourself – about one key issue:

Is divorce your biggest fear?

Would that be worse than discovering your wife is having a full sexual affair with another man?

If you can honestly tell yourself that divorce, or even the threat of divorce is the worst possible outcome then your steps are simple:

>Either get your WW to use protection when with the OM or you start using a condom when you two have sex.

>Try to get her to shower when she comes home from working “overtime”.

>Convince yourself that she really is working overtime when she’s doing the budget with the boss on a Friday evening.

Do that, be quiet and maybe the affair ends in a year or so.

There. No risk of divorce, at least for now.

If the above doesn’t sound good… well… accept that there is another possibly worse outcome:

IMHO that outcome would be to realize today that she’s having an affair, and then realizing 3 weeks, 3 months and 3 years from now that it’s ongoing.

The worst outcome isn’t losing your wife – it’s SHARING your wife.

This is so important.

Once you know the options; reclaim your marriage or share your wife; you can start working towards attaining the goal you want. Only… IF your worst fear is divorce then the minute your wife realizes that then the affair will carry on. After all – it’s not as if she’s risking anything by it – you fear divorce more than knowing she might be in the arms of someone else.

The question changes and therefore the answer:

It’s no longer I don’t want to divorce, what do I do?

It becomes: I don’t want to be in infidelity, what do I do?

Then realize there are two good ways – paths if you like – out of infidelity.

There is reconciliation. To reconcile certain things are needed, some to start and some as you progress. To start with basically all that is needed is mutual commitment to R, accountability and openness and that the affair is over.

More is needed as you go along, a LOT more. Some directly related to the affair, some are general marriage health issues.

Then there is divorce. To divorce all that is needed is that ONE of you wants to divorce. That’s it.

Friend – there really is no third option IMHO. These are your two paths, R or D.

Fortunately for you they don’t run in opposite directions. In fact they run parallel for quite some time and it’s easy to step off one to the other.

Realizing and accepting the above can be so liberating.

IF your conclusion becomes that your wife is having an affair with the OM… well… Knowing that your answer or option is not if you divorce her but rather that you get out of infidelity gives you power. Her reactions and your response to those actions will be what might determine if that’s via reconciliation or through divorce.

OK – So back to the is she cheating issue.

Based on what you share then yes. There are more red flags than you normally see in a Chinese parade. None of us can tell you with 100% conviction she’s cheating, but if your description was a weather report I would be wearing rain-gear and preparing for the storm.

There are some questions you might answer so we can guide you onwards:

Is the boss married? If he is then why not phone his wife and ask her about that evening. If she shares that yes, your wife was so drunk and she slept on the couch then maybe we are all wrong.

If he isn’t married… well… one more why rent a hotel room to work question.

Is he the BOSS BOSS. As in the owner? Top level? What would his superiors say about this behavior?

Is what she is doing unacceptable? By taking consequences off the table (divorce) you are saying it is acceptable. Her explanations do not suffice. You need to be ready to lose the relationship and get the truth OR keep the relationship and share your woman with a man who you have already described as a serial cheater (GROSS).

I'm confused by this whole thread. There are some fundamental things off here that make no sense.

1. Is it your wife's habit to go out with friends and stay out until 1 to 2 AM? Was this night out where she was actually out to 6AM out of the ordinary or does she do this a lot?

2. Does your wife think that going to his house at 2AM after a night of drinking was okay and the only mistake she made was falling asleep on the couch? Do you?

3. Why was her boss in a hotel room at all? You say he lives near you. I assume that the hotel is in the same town. Why was he in a hotel at all for her to drop in on?

4. Are you in the US? Your name indicates it but I wasn't sure. Is this hotel spa even doing massages right now in the world of COVID? I didn't even think this was being allowed anywhere.

5. Has she explained how she paid for the massage? I'm assuming she says cash but is this normal? A massage in a hotel spa is expensive. Does she normally carry that much cash? Can she show some paper trail at all like an ATM receipt even?

This story has more holes than swiss cheese but it really seems like you want to look past all of that and paper over this thing. She is having an Affair with her boss. If she still works there it is still going on. It sounds like the boss has no SO for you to talk to but you have to do something here. Get angry at least.

If you sweep this under the rug it will give her “permission” to either Continue to cheat or have more than one affair.

Ask me how I know.

You're in an open marriage, you just don't know it yet. What do you know of her first marriage and how it ended, what do you REALLY know?

You need to contact the OBS and start working on this together. Do this without your WW and her AP knowing. It looks like it's PI or polygraph time.

Know this, you will never know the entire truth, and it will always be worse then what you find out.

No biological child with her.....

When you let the wife know under no uncertain terms that you are not willing to lose her no matter what, you are basically giving her permission to continue to do what she wants. In this case, stonewall you into accepting that this is how she chooses to live, no matter how it affects you.

You cannot play this game with her. All actions have some sort of consequence. Right now, the consequence is you are getting hurt by her actions. You are worried about the marriage, she is not.

The things you're hearing here, and the advice you're given is to take action so that you aren't going along for the ride. You are guided so that you can take control of the situation, no matter if it is to keep the marriage going, or you head for divorce. No one comes onto this board wanting a divorce. Everyone wishes it never happened to them, but you're here now. Your gut is telling you something is up.

You need to take action. There are suggestions in the other forum on spying and tailing your spouse. I suggest that no matter what you do, you need to have a sit down talk with your wife about what is and isn't acceptable behavior. Let it be known that going out until 2 in the morning is maybe acceptable 1-2 times a yr at the most, but in no case is it acceptable for her to then choose to go sleep it off at another mans house.

I do have to ask, you said her boss is married? How did his wife feel about your wife spending the night? Have you ever considered asking her that?

Lastly, WE ALL had a picture perfect family until we didn't. I would suggest that I'm also attractive, just like my WW. We are both successful. SO WHAT? Did Haley Berry get cheated on? Did Christy Brinkley get cheated on? YES and YES. I would probably say they're both much more successful than you and your wife, and I'd bet they're both more attractive during their days as well. Still got cheated on.

Women cheat for primarily for emotional reasons. Its usually not sex with them, while men on the other hand, mostly are in it for some side action. Your idea of the picture perfect family probably needs to be examined in a thorough discussion with your wife.

[This message edited by HalfTime2017 at 2:43 PM, September 30th (Wednesday)]

Well. You certainly set off some posts!

There is no scenario that has not been scene here.

The well off professional, fit, loving, active sex life who has a spouse cheating with a fat boss, older boss, office troll or some variation thereof.

Your story would make a passive eunuch sit up and take notice, especially now that she is done talking.

You want reassurance? Easy. Hire a PI and have your answers in a week. Put a var in her car as extra insurance.

The number of cases here where this approach is effective are legion.

Just do it. The odds of this is just all a mistake are so low, the most desperate long shot Louie would not bet a fin on it.

Just do it.

Well. You certainly set off some posts!

There is no scenario that has not been scene here.

The well off professional, fit, loving, active sex life who has a spouse cheating with a fat boss, older boss, office troll or some variation thereof.

Your story would make a passive eunuch sit up and take notice, especially now that she is done talking.

You want reassurance? Easy. Hire a PI and have your answers in a week. Put a var in her car as extra insurance.

The number of cases here where this approach is effective are legion.

Just do it. The odds of this is just all a mistake are so low, the most desperate long shot Louie would not bet a fin on it.

Just do it.

^^^ THIS ^^^

Lastly, WE ALL had a picture perfect family until we didn't. I would suggest that I'm also attractive, just like my WW. We are both successful. SO WHAT? Did Haley Berry get cheated on? Did Christy Brinkley get cheated on? YES and YES. I would probably say they're both much more successful than you and your wife, and I'd bet they're both more attractive during their days as well. Still got cheated on.

Excellent point. Hugh Grant had Elizabeth Hurley (Vanessa from the Austin Powers movie) waiting at home and he got arrested for getting oral sex from a street prostitute in 1995, so I think it's just a matter of familiarity breeding contempt.

Some people can't be satisfied with fidelity, and seek out the new, the exciting, the dangerous. Sneaking around and taking chances is it's own reward, along with the attention.

Since you're doing Bible study, I suggest spending some time meditating on these Proverbs:

"Every wise woman builds her house, but the foolish one tears it down with her own hands." ~Proverbs 14:1

"An adulterous woman consumes a man, then wipes her mouth and says, “What’s wrong with that?” ~Proverbs 30:20

"Better to live on a corner of the roof than share a house with a quarrelsome (read: contentious, dishonest, unfaithful) wife." ~Proverbs 21:9

All of these proverbs could easily be reversed for gender and would still contain the same truths.

DIFM, well said.

This forum is filled with betrayed spouses married to good churchgoing bible believing cheaters. Don't let yourself get stuck on that. You cannot deal with what you do not know. This is not a phase, it is a conscious choice and your wife, if she is cheating, will follow the standard cheaters script. There is almost no such thing as a unique or different situation cheater.

Get a PI, or at least get a VAR to put in her car. Get the facts. Then you can work towards addressing the truth vs imagining you can do something about what you don't know with someone that will not comply.

Sorry, but I have to ask, what does being good looking have to do with your circumstance or her cheating?

With your wife being angry with you and not wanting to talk about it seems like she's trying to rug sweep it. She's not showing any remorse. She just wants to avoid the whole thing. Huge red flags. She should take a polygraph. This might scare her into a "parking lot confession" before the test. If she does not want to take the poly, that's another red flag. Too many red flags if you ask me. Try putting a VAR in her car, or other places where she usually talk on the phone/cell? You might catch her talking with her AP. Time to 180 her - ignore her and just take care of yourself. If you don't want to live like this, you might have to think about divorce, chat with a lawyer, get your finance in order.

Thanks for all the responses. As a note and update to some of the questions:

1.we live outside the usa, therefore a PI is probably not available. Though, putting spyware on the phone could be if I want to go down that route

2. Where we are at massages at hotels are normal as there are usually spas locate there.

3. Her staying out past midnight is unusual. It was a one time and when confronted she was embarrassed. Typically when she goes out with work colleagues for drinks, it's a group of 5 - 10 (male and female). I know most all of them and have started to join or be with my.own group of.work colleagues in the same area.

4. Her boss is married and I did confront him and have proof of him texting my wife stating I confronted him. And that he would prefer she keep this quiet that he was at the hotel and he would like to keep that to himself why he was there. This could be a preconceived message but he mentioned his wifes name which makes me think it's more authenticate.