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So we ended up talking on her way home at midnight on Friday night. Apparently they met for dinner at 7pm and she was crying for the 30 minutes prior and had to compose herself.

She told him at dinner and he was shocked and couldn’t believe she never told him since this happened. Long and short they went over how everything started and over time and they both knew this relationship was not sustainable to keep doing it behind everyone’s back. Apparently that’s why he came up with her as wife # 2 idea but she did not want to go forward with it (I never heard her say yes on any of the recordings, just kept asking questions and was apprehensive).

She also said they both said that this would have never happened if things were good between my wife and I. (Again blaming me). I said to her how does he reconcile himself as a Muslim conducting himself in this manner, completely against the teachings of the Koran? She said you would have to speak to him, she doesn’t know.

She then admitted again (said this to me numerous times before) that he helped her through some dark times in our marriage (depression etc), to which I sarcastically responded “Maybe I should be thanking him then?”

She said he felt really bad about the whole thing and regretted that I had to find out via recordings and told her if I ever wanted to talk to him about it he would. He then said that “I am a good guy” - Who fucking cares what he thinks?

They said their goodbyes and she said he cannot contact her anymore and this was it.

When she got home she said it looks like a big weight came off my chest and we said good night to each other

——

Here are the facts.

She did all this but I have ZERO proof - zero proof of the dinner, zero proof of her ending it etc. She still angles her phone away from me when entering in her code.

We had a family event already scheduled for yesterday which we went to and she was very affectionate like old times, however I don’t trust her.

I woke up this morning with a strong gut feeling and a sense of dread. I realized it’s because I don’t know anything for sure.

Now before anyone here says Serve her now, out her to the family etc., I am meeting with a lawyer later this week to get the ball rolling. I am NOT outing her to anyone until I seek legal counsel - there is a lot of money involved in this and I’m not going to be stupid about this.

I don’t feel any better now than before and realize I live with a sense of uneasiness and paranoia and this is not sustainable nor do I want to live this way.

I have been thinking that I may have to see a therapist regarding this but how do you find a good one from the start? I am not interested in going through 10-15 therapists.

The ONLY way I can know for sure if she is telling the truth is I need to get my hands on her cellphone records. I am going to be calling some PI’s as well.

It would be just as likely as her version of the story, that they met in a hotel room, had the best porn-star sex you can imagine, twisted like pretzels and agreed that since you know, they will have to take things further underground.

I think the scenario I painted above is more likely otherwise there would have been no need for a face to face meeting.

My interpretation, she's lying worse than a politician.

ETA:

No-one has "dinner" for 5 hours and going NC takes 10 minutes tops.

[This message edited by DictumVeritas at 10:47 PM, September 6th (Sunday)]

So she has a 5 hour "dinner" with him (or longer depending on when she really met up with him) and you're not sure if she's telling the truth about it?

Awoken, brother, you basically gave her permission to meet with him knowing full well that they would have sex and talk about how to take it deeper underground.

She has controlled everything from the start of this.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 1:53 AM, September 7th (Monday)]

Awoken, think logically, she spent 30 minutes crying. She went over a timeline with him at dinner. They agreed to end it. Ok, so 2 hrs max? So what did she spend the other 5 hours doing then? And why is she still hiding her phone? You are getting played HARD.

She did exactly what I listed out people meet in person to do. They reminisced about the good times. They had a last hooray sexually. They probably took the A underground further which is why she is still being secretive with her phone. They're waiting for you to let your guard down before meeting up again. Do you really think OM gives a shit if she marries him or not when she keeps making herself sexually available to him and refusing you? He can keep her and have 3 more wives for all he cares. He's getting it all and he doesn't need a symbolic marriage ceremony to prove it.

Proceed with D. Even if she proves he is not still in the picture and gives you full access to her phone, how does she undo nearly 2 decades of a sexless marriage and then years of giving that to him that she wouldn't give to you? It's pretty doubtful that's going to change unless it's a temporary desperate attempt from her to stop you from D'ing her. She's giving you nothing to work with and even her best will probably only be your just okay.

I don’t feel any better now than before and realize I live with a sense of uneasiness and paranoia and this is not sustainable nor do I want to live this way.

If you don't disentangle yourself from this situation, this is what the rest of your life with her will look like.

I have been thinking that I may have to see a therapist regarding this but how do you find a good one from the start? I am not interested in going through 10-15 therapists.

If you're not willing to seek professional help, that's your choice and you can use any number of excuses. The problem is, without it you'll be stuck in this limbo indefinitely.

The ONLY way I can know for sure if she is telling the truth is I need to get my hands on her cellphone records. I am going to be calling some PI’s as well.

Why would you need any proof now? Everything over the last 18 years is enough.

Seen this TOO many times here, the same thing, the WW agrees to break it off but demands it must be in person, then it ends up being an extended “meeting”, to find out they’d done exactly what is being suggested: sex and taken the A underground. I guess you’re lucky she even came home, seen that, too.

You need to stop communication with her, start treating her like your worse enemy, because she is. You need to push that appt with your lawyer up to today!

Why does it matter? Why does what they said at dinner matter? Why does what they did before, during or after matter. She has done nothing to show you any consideration of a single reasonable boundary, she has done nothing to show remorse, no attempt to regain trust, she has shown you nothing.

I dont understand how you could even be speaking to her anout anything, wake up.

I have to agree with most of the team here. She is just spinning you a line, blaming you for her actions, justifying her actions over the years.

Seek and do what your lawyers advise, to the letter. Have the PI do what your lawyer says you need.

Get into IC for yourself. Work out what your goals are! Legally, morally and financially.

When appropriate expose to all. She is badmouthing you to your friends. He has a eating disorder, yeh it is due to The infidelity diet.

One day at a time.

Buffer

She left this afternoon, came home then left and has been out for dinner for 4 hours based on the time she said they were having dinner, maybe longer based on when she left and haven’t heard from her in 7 hours.

In the end how long did it take her to break-up with her boyfriend?

She still angles her phone away from me when entering in her code.

You strike me as someone that has had it so bad in his marriage for so long that he doesn't even realize how bad it is. She seems to have total control of you. Your child has even suggested that his mother might have some mental issue. (This is BIG for a child to notice and suggest) She has some major control issues.

I see a lot of No's in your post. Counseling, ultimatums, spying, Divorce... This is fine. It's who you are and how you do things but... I wonder if some of your refusuals are more about her. When you are living with a Narc you tend to just give them their way rather than have to deal with the aftermass. Having a Narc angry at you is very difficult and we tend to do as much as we can to keep thing calm and not rock the boat.

I know you are going to talk with a lawyer this week. Please read about the 180 and start doing it ASAP. You need to detach from this woman to see how bad she is treating you.

Your happy with a kiss when she's been screwing a married man for years. Your trilled with some affection ... when she just spent 7 hours with her lover... She says she ended the affair and you have to trust her and yet has done nothing to earn that trust. She should be moving mountains and all she's doing is scattering a little dirt.

Again, please do a hard 180 so you can see this situation more clearly.

Your happy with a kiss when she's been screwing a married man for years. Your trilled with some affection ... when she just spent 7 hours with her lover... She says she ended the affair and you have to trust her and yet has done nothing to earn that trust. She should be moving mountains and all she's doing is scattering a little dirt.

Awoken, you mentioned reading on narcissism earlier on. I suggest you research trauma bonding, how it works and how to break away from it. Your reactions to your wife's behaviour could be driven by trauma bonding created over long years and further exacerbated by the discovery of the affair. It's also one more reason to enter IC as soon as an opportunity presents itself.

The disrespect the cheating g wife showed by insisting on ending this is person shows that:

This OM still has more control than the H

The cheating wife is still allowing the OM to have control

The cheating wife is not putting the Marriage first

Proceed from there

I am leaning towards divorce, NOT reconciliation.

May be good for your long term welfare although it may be emotionally difficult in the short term. . She has not seen any consequences so far. When she see your divorce action or other conclusive steps she will tell you how much she wants you and love you.

She also said on a recording that she never loved anyone before like she loves him. When I brought this up with her, she is silent and has no comment.

stop going back to what happened and why. it only hurt you. This also shows how inconsiderate she is towards you just keep you around as a slave(for the wat of a better word).

Also it looks like the POS is very 'caring'. If his wife is not taking any actions you might want to meet his whole family at a proper place and tell them what a POS he is.

Turn a alpha male to match your looks (Mr. Clooney). If you check around it is mostly beta men who face infidelity.

am STILL angry at myself for all the wasted years and burying my head in the sand,

worse thing can happen. Health is the best gift one can have. Good thing happened to you since Dday you are improving it. Also remember at your age you have advantage. WW has spent her better days with the POS and she will never be able to find a caring man like you. You have to stand up for yourselves. Hope you listen to what happen with the POS meeting just for your entertainment. Otherwise I do not see any reason for you to listen to what happened after all the way she forced her way to meet him

[This message edited by goalong at 8:15 AM, September 7th (Monday)]

I think most of us on SI agree that there are two paths out of infidelity.

Some insist there is only one, but the fact this site has a reconciliation forum AND a divorce forum indicates that the site-policy is more about two paths out of infidelity.

You have reconciliation and you have divorce.

You state that you are more inclined towards divorce.

To be clear:

Based solely on what you share and your WW actions then you don’t have the second option. You aren’t being offered reconciliation.

Your choices are therefore – as is – limited to two:

Remain in infidelity or divorce.

In order for that to change your WW has to show IMMENSELY different behavior. Based on what you share then I haven’t seen a single factor that indicates that you two have a salvageable marriage, nor a good reason to reconcile. The factors mentioned have all been external and sunk-cost factors.

Could that change? Yes – definitely. But only if and when your WW accepts accountability and truly cuts off OM. She isn’t offering either.

Trust your gut.

Judge her by her behavior (not her words).

People with nothing to hide - hide nothing.

Hey guys go easy on awoken

Now before anyone here says Serve her now, out her to the family etc., I am meeting with a lawyer later this week to get the ball rolling. - there is a lot of money involved in this and I’m not going to be stupid about this.

This is really cold blooded thinking in a good way.

I have been thinking that I may have to see a therapist regarding this but how do you find a good one from the start?

All the right things.. While WS is on her power play.

Thank you everyone for your input.

@GoldenR I agree she has controlled everything from the start of this - she is a very controlling person and has to have things her way - it’s virtually impossible to ever have her apologize for something she has done wrong. However, I will admit she is right almost everytime when she has an assessment of something and that’s where her arrogance of doing things her way comes from. She is rarely wrong.

@Sceadugenga - I agree and have started to look for a therapist and you are right, I don’t need more proof. It’s just that I want to know if she is still lying now or has turned over a new leaf. Either way, it doesn’t mean I trust her. And thank you for your suggestion re trauma bonding - I looked into it and think that’s what’s happening here.

@goalong - you are right I have my health and am now almost in the best shape of my life on an upward trajectory while she is on a downward one. With respect to beta, that’s exactly what I’ve been our whole marriage.

I think one of the major things that affected my life negatively is I had my father pass away suddenly when I was 3 or 4 years old and I don’t remember him. I was raised by my mother so didn’t really have a strong father figure in my life - I had to figure it all out myself and never really had anyone to talk to - I always hid my problems even from friends and coworkers as I didn’t think it was masculine to do so. I held those people at arms length always to the point I was told I am intimidating and always too business focused.

Had another discussion with my wife this morning and it turned again to her asking me what’s wrongn as I was not myself - she said I have been disconnected lately. I decided to open up about a few things and said that I don’t trust her and she has shown me nothing.

I said you told me you went to dinner, but you could have easily been elsewhere. I asked for the receipt and she said he paid. I asked her what did you eat - and she told me (I later checked the restaurants menu and her story checks out, UNLESS she has been there many times before and knows whats on the menu).

She said her opening up and being 100% transparent is continuing the marriage based on distrust and not doing it from a position of healing the marriage. I told her I can’t just trust her.

She said I should seek counselling because everytime I am like this I am negative and set the repair backwards. I told her I was going to counselling and she said good I can come with you but you have to tell the whole truth about our marriage if the person is going to help.

When I repeated her needing to be transparent she said where did you read that, in your books? I said you have done ZERO searching to fix this but she did say that if she came with me to counselling and the therapist said that she needs to be transparent with everything (access to phone etc), she would do it. The issues is she doesn’t respect me and didn’t think I was a good leader in the past so she doesn’t want to take what I am saying at face value.

She asked me again if I deleted the recordings and I laughed. I said of course I did.

Then she went to get ready and shower. When she got out, she said she thought about and is not cool with the access, and if I insist then maybe this marriage won’t work (I agree with her). She said she can’t live like that under a microscope. She also asked where where my surveillance equipment is as she said I should sell them as it’s “bad energy” to keep in the house.

She left, went for a walk, came back and said she was going to her friends house for a few hours (her friend is having a party for her daughter that is getting married and I already knew about this). She then said “Are we good?” - I said “Yes” and she left.

Fact this, we are NOT good.

I realized I have been wasting so much time reading books on infidelity, articles and searches etc while she has done nothing. This stops today.

I have multiple additional business ideas I need to flesh out more as I have been delaying them just in case it came to divorce as there is no reason for her to get anything from ideas in my head coming to fruition now.

My time and focus has to be spent on getting those businesses ready to go, on continuing improving my physique, on moving things forward with the lawyer, and MOST importantly, getting my head screwed on straight and repaired from all this infidelity nonsense.

I also am going to flesh out a vision of what I want my life to be about after I move on. I want it to be an exciting vision that gets me going first thing in the morning and to really enjoy the next 3-4 decades of my life. It’s going to be about ME now.

[This message edited by Awoken at 11:47 AM, September 7th (Monday)]

Yes. You are now starting to see the woods from the trees. As you detach, you will see how manipulated that you have been through out your marriage.

And again, the emotional trauma inflicted in a sexless marriage. You need to confront her with that. She needs to realise her major contribution to your demeanour.

Only have mum in your upbringing does explain somewhat your hesitation to confront. But she has used this to her advantage through out this, and possibly throughout your marriage.

There are a number of issues that need to be addressed when you finally start seeing a counselor.

Any counseling that you and your wife see needs to be a specialist in infidelity. She will then realize that infidelity is a lot more complex.

Do you still have hopes of R. Otherwise you are doing a good act by engaging her and pretending wanting to know what she is doing. The way she acts she think still you are on tow which is necessary for cheaters to enjoy cheating.

If you are planning on D the moment she see the reality she may change her uncaring high handed manner and pretend to care for you.

Anyway there is no point in going through the past (unless you want to R)and what is left for you is the present and the future. Do not think you are a less of a person for what happened and it is all about her wanting character. No one including your children will think that you are less of a man if you tell them the truth. The way she is the moment she realize things are going to change she will do her best to influence the children.

It also looks like you are handling this by yourself. Get one or two who are reliable (family, friends) involved to help you navigating this

[This message edited by goalong at 4:00 PM, September 7th (Monday)]

I'm going to be very blunt.

Your wife has no intention of reconciling with you. None.

She keeps asking about the recordings because she wants to make sure they don't pop up in court.

She's refusing transparency because then it would make it harder to contact her boyfriend.

She is badmouthing you to friends to set you up as the bad guy.

She did not spend 5 hours at dinner breaking up with him. The idea is absurd,and an insult to your intelligence.

They went to a hotel. They discussed how to take it underground. He probably gave her a burner phone. They laughed about how easily she pushes you around.

She has zero respect for you. None. She has zero regret for hurting you. None. She wants you to pretend none of it happened, because your pain is annoying her.

I'm astonished that you are still on the fence. I'm going to assume its because you are still in shock. Because nothing about her says she is reconciliation material.

She shows no concern for you. No love. She is actually cruel and dismissive.

She has been having an 18 year affair with him. I don't care that she claims it stopped for a few years,then picked back up. She is a liar. And not a very good one. You're perspective is clouded by love. Ours is not. We can very clearly see what has been going on. She's been denying you sex, while giving herself to this man. FOR 18 YEARS.

She is a cruel, abusive woman.

Edited to correct autocorrect

[This message edited by HellFire at 5:05 PM, September 7th (Monday)]

She said he felt really bad about the whole thing and regretted that I had to find out via recordings and told her if I ever wanted to talk to him about it he would. He then said that “I am a good guy” - Who fucking cares what he thinks?

Why didn't you talk to him? You could have easily confirmed everything!!!