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Awoken,

You ex is not a candidate for R. Her actions are deplorable. She wants you to rugsweep everything. That only helps her, but in a yr or two from now, you're going to hate yourself for it. You're going to have to live with this shit stain that you cannot wash away, and you have to continue to wear this shirt forever, smelling that pungent shit every single day. And thats not even the worst part. The worst part is that you may eventually find another shit stain on another part of your body if you give her R and not fix her issues.

Expose the piece of shit AP, to everyone. Make your WW answer for her faults like others have said, or there is no possibility of R.

Justb keep carrying on one foot in front of the other. Get all your ducks in a row. File.

Keep moving forward in the direction you need to go.

She has had a very long time to know how to manipulate you and her situations.

Get off the carousal.

You are way to good to be continually manipulated like what she is doing to you.

Can someone clarify something for me? I have read through all of OP’s posts but there the questions where he was asked whether he is going to set for R or D were always skipped. I am quite confused on the stance that he is taking at the moment. As more and more of the cheater’s self is exposed, I thought OP is going for D but the last post he mentioned he cant R if the cheater is not willing to talk or be transparent.

Just a bit confused here.

Awoken, youre worth so much more than this.

Do you plan to DNA test your kids?

Man. I don't see any coming back from this. I absolutely have no idea why she is with you except she doesn't want to be alone.

I know she's your wife and mother of you children but this... She's a special kind of evil to do this for all these years.

You really need to see her as we are seeing her right now. There is nothing here.

[This message edited by thirtyyearsmore at 6:48 AM, September 4th (Friday)]

Awoken

I truly think you have been dealt a situation that is way beyond our paygrade here on SI.

It’s like you were to tell us you wanted to run a marathon with your wife. Only she wanted to do the Boston marathon while you did the London marathon. That you wanted to jog and skip, she wanted to walk and do cartwheels. That you had a limp and had to wear a suite of armor, and that she insisted on pulling a grand piano along with her and wear a wedding-dress and heels. That she refused to train, and you felt too self-conscious to wear running gear. You do weight training to prepare while she does yoga. That she insists a marathon is 13 miles and you insist it’s 30… There is no cohesion or vision. The only thing you two have agreed on is to run the marathon, without understanding what that is and what is needed.

There is just too much going on friend. Just too much.

I think your very best bet and possibly the ONLY option you reasonably have is to focus on YOUR recovery. Go seek professional help. Go see an IC or a psychologist. You have been dealt a major major trauma and there isn’t a single one here that could take what you have been given without damage. Not a single one.

Take time off to build and heal yourself. At best (or at worst) your marriage will still be there in 3-6 months. Your wife might or might not be in active infidelity. It wont be worse than it is today, but MAYBE you could be in a better place to deal with it.

I cant believe what a cold, callous, manipulative bitch she is. How did I not see this before?

She’s a covert narcissist and now you’ve outed her and see her. Can’t put that genie back in the bottle.

Hard 180. Take off your ring. She divorced you emotionally physically and spiritually and it is now null and void

Formalize this by separating from her. File for D and move on.

Also narcissists like to change the channel rapidly, cycling between whatever they think works on you at the moment. Crying, raging, self pity, moving in for affection, treating you with coldness. Classic NPD.

This is a dangerous woman. Get away from her now.

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:54 PM, September 4th (Friday)]

Jesus Christ!!!!

What does she have to do for you to say “enough!!!” and have her served?????

Go let her be that guys second wife!

Awoken,

This post is directed towards reconciliation, because that appears to be what you wish for. Just keep in mind that not all wishes come true.

One of the hardest things that we try to get across to a newly betrayed member here is that you have to put as much emotion aside as possible. You have to think clearly, and be clinical in your decisions and actions.....AT LEAST UNTIL YOU HAVE A FULLY COMMITTED PARTNER. That means a partner who is (1) fully owning of their actions, (2) apparently very sorry and contrite for their actions, and (3) wanting to commit fully to attempt to reconcile. These are the minimums; your long term goals are not going to be met if she believes that your actions contributed to her cheating, or isn't willing to face your repeated questions, or can't tolerate when you are upset, or......

You have to deal with the person who is in front of you today. It doesn't matter if you had decades of blissful years prior with beautiful children and a huge dreams ahead. There isn't a 'credit system' or sliding scales for prior good behavior. If your wife TODAY is telling you that it is YOUR fault that she cheated, what good does everything else matter? Just as her affair doesn't nullify all the good that the two of you had in your life, the same has to apply in the opposite sense. People are based, in my opinion, on the tapestry of their entirety; for example: I had a fantastic girlfriend and fiance for over 5 years, a great wife and mother for 10+ years, an okay wife for a few years, and a horrible wife and mother for a few years. Then I had a decent wife and mother for a few years, and then a very good wife and mother again. That was/is our lives through the years.

But during the time that my wife was wayward? That was the time that I was working on divorce, because the woman THAT WAS IN FRONT OF ME AT THAT TIME was not someone who I wanted to be with. It didn't matter about the 'good' years; it didn't matter that she was the mother of my children. What mattered was that she betrayed me in one of the worst ways possible, and was not showing the behavior of someone who I wanted as a partner.

You, my friend, have to look at this moment of time. Is your wife contrite? Empathetic to your pain? Non-defensive and fully accepting of their actions? Is this woman, RIGHT NOW, someone that makes you happy, and a person that you want by your side? She may be that person in the future, but stop banking on that POSSIBILITY. If we had the ability to predict future behavior with 100% accuracy, we would all be rich. But the truth is, it is nothing more than speculation....and in your case, it can be extremely harmful to your well-being. Stop looking at what you WANT her to be, and start looking at her like she IS. And treat her....and yourself....accordingly.

Perhaps your wife is narcissistic.

Whatever her true nature you really should press ahead with divorce and expose her to her family and her friends. If you choose to go nuclear play back your VAR recordings to the relevant parties.

You have lost many good years to this woman. Years you cannot get back. Choose not to lose any more of your valuable time to her. Life is short.

Keep your VAR with you in case she makes false allegations of abuse and violence.

[This message edited by smolderingdark at 2:26 PM, September 4th (Friday)]

Interesting the recent comments about narcissism and especially covert narcissist. I’m actually listening to a podcast right now with someone who is an expert is personalities and he is describing covert narcissists and she has almost all (not every one, but most) of the traits.

Had a big blow out again last night. She got home for dinner and then told me the AP called her out of the blue as he is back in the country and has quarantined and only has 1-2 days before he has to leave to join his family so he wanted to see her. She already had plans with a girlfriend of hers which she had to change.

She told me that she was going to be transparent when he got in touch with her and told me she was having dinner in a public place with him tonight. I lost it and said I told her I didn’t want her to meet him in person and she should have ended it already. I told her reconciliation hasn’t started since you haven’t ended anything. She immediately went from 0 to 100 in anger and yelling saying the proper way to do this is face to face and end it as he has no idea what she was going to tell him.

I told her no problem, do it your way, don’t come home tomorrow and I turned away. She grabbed my arm and ended up scratching it, and I told her the next time she is violent towards me the police will be here. I took photos later just to have them as proof.

She said why don’t you want me to end it in person, and I said because I don’t trust him and she said, no, you don’t trust me. And she was right. She basically said if someone like this happens again, we are through.

I said be careful with your threats because I can make your life a living hell.

She lost it again - then asked me again about the recordings and if I deleted them. She said let me see your computer and prove that you deleted them. I started laughing and said I deleted them and don’t have to prove anything to you, It’s you that has to prove things to me. She said if she gets access to my computer, she will give me access to her phone - I declined.

She then said that she will not have me hold anything over her head and will go and tell her parents herself about the affair, as well as our kids. She said after she tells them, and they see how bad our marriage was, they will be upset at me instead of her. Again blaming me. (And as I mentioned here before, I am definitely at fault for being a bad husband for years.)

She said how hard she is fighting to have this meeting is exactly how hard she will fight for me as she chose to be with me.

I dropped it then as we weren’t getting anywhere and our kids were waiting for us outside to go to dinner.

She left this afternoon, came home then left and has been out for dinner for 4 hours based on the time she said they were having dinner, maybe longer based on when she left and haven’t heard from her in 7 hours. Who knows if they are even eating, maybe they are in a hotel or in the back seat of her vehicle - I don’t care anymore - I am not even going to wait up and will be asleep by the time she gets home. She can tell me all about it tomorrow.

The funny thing is last night, she even offered for me to go with her for the meeting so I accepted. That threw her off then she tried to change my mind which I did, because if I went I would probably do something I would regret with both of them.

I am still going ahead to meet with the lawyer next week to see what my options are and what divorce will look like.

I can’t trust her.

Well, once again she has chosen her other husband over you and her children.

Why can’t you expose her ways to her family and your children?

Why oh why does everything have to be done her way?

No contact from now on, let your legal team do the talking for you; once they are engaged.

Move her things out of the bedroom, while she is at dinner. Keep a VAR on you at all times. Keep the recordings out if the house! She wants to and needs to be in control. Keep looking out for yourself. There is no chance for R with this woman. She is his #2 wife already. Let his other wife know ASAP.

One day at a time.

[This message edited by Buffer at 8:38 PM, September 4th (Friday)]

She is out on a date with her boyfriend while you wait at home for her and talk about the possibility of R. Have her actions not spoken loud enough to deafen you yet?

Thanks Buffer - 1 step at a time - this took 20+ years and can’t be undone in 1 night.

When looking at definitions of covert narcissist, there are 2 traits she that are part of NPD that doesn’t fit her.

She has loads of empathy for people (just not for me), and she has no problem developing and maintaining relationships - everyone wants a piece of her and her time.

She has even gone as far to tell me many times over the years including recently that everyone wants what I have (ie her). Except she doesn’t realize I DO NOT have her and HAVEN’T had her in 2 decades.

Leftbroken - I am leaning towards divorce, NOT reconciliation.

[This message edited by Awoken at 8:46 PM, September 4th (Friday)]

Leaning....?

Man you should be running.

Awoken, if this was business, you would of sorted it quickly and decisively.

What you are doing is just pick me tactics.. Her plan 'a' is at this very moment wooing here, dating her with your permission now, and you are waiting there, ready when she is ready.. Your threat.. you will not be awake when she gets back from her date. man oh man..

How did you let that happen..

This may sound like a 2 by 4 but bud..

Take away her threats. Let the kids know now, in an appropriate way, whilst she is on a date. See a lawyer asap. Have her out of your life asap.

What you are doing must be killing your self esteem. Your inner self.

Grovelling in the mud of it will definitely leave you smeared in it.

Get out.

Sorry brother, 4 hours, safe to say more than dinner has occurred. See a lawyer for options, sorry but you don’t have options.

This is entirely like a male version of Fannyandcat.

Sorry to hear what you are going through bud but you are anything but awoken.

[This message edited by MorbidCuriosity at 10:09 PM, September 4th (Friday)]

Leaning....?

Man you should be running.

Amen to that..