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I would have her write out the timeline first.

I agree. First get the timeline (subject to a polygraph) and then ask for more follow up information or questions off the timeline.

Did she provide you with a letter explaining why she wants to stay married to you (other than 'loving' you, and the kids); and a list of all the ways you are a superior life partner to the OM?

Thumos' book recommendation is something I personally recommend you avoid. Quite extensively so, the book is misogynistic and disgusting beyond belief. Here is a passage below:

It's up to you but, but I prefer the Wallope's approach, with a long list of questions face to face first (before the timeline), and like I said before, make sure you record the entire Q&A and clarify any ambiguities on the spot, that way she doesn't have time to prepare and analyze her answers before she gives them to you, by doing the Q&A first you could pick up any hesitations and/or resistance to any question from her, then you can have her write a detailed timeline which based on her 2 year LTA could take about a few weeks.

IMHO If you ask her to do the timeline first before the Q&A, she would be better prepared to some of the questions (similar to studying/reading a subject before a test in school), remember you won't be able to ask all those questions in a polygraph unless you're willing to spend a lot of money on several tests, the less prepared she is for the Q&A, the better. You could always do a follow up Q&A based on new information from the timeline before the polygraph.

[This message edited by Buster123 at 4:50 PM, August 31st (Monday)]

AH, it's not unusual at all to vacillate between wondering if the marriage could be rebuilt and that would be best and knowing that it can't and that would be best. Even after separating 4 years after DDay1 I had the same wondering when wide awake and when sleeping. That was after 4 years of getting no where.

The vacillation was based on memories of all the good times in a long marriage. The love bias diminishes the memory of the less than good times. The memory of how she was during the 4 year LTA, how often she was with him, where she had sex with him, how she was after DDay and how she never came through was a much stronger image. Still, you wonder if you could make it work.

I couldn't. The lengthy period from DDay1 to separation was slowly and surely killing me. Her attitude and lack of initiative contributed.

Sleep deprivation is very dangerous. It's dangerous psychologically and physically. There are more accidents with the clock change when you lose one hour of sleep. You, and I at the time, lose a lot more sleep than that and on a continuous basis not just one night.

Please see your doctor and get something to help with your sleep. I started sleeping much better(and healing) after separation. A while later I tapered off (with my doctor's approval) the sleep aid until I finally don't take it anymore and I'm sleeping better than I have in years.

Thumos' book recommendation is something I personally recommend you avoid. Quite extensively so, the book is misogynistic and disgusting beyond belief.

That’s absurd and a thread jack. I don’t endorse every single word of every book I recommend or read. It’s a solid book with lots of solid advice. In fact I've said on several occasions here on SI that I don't agree with everything in the book and that parts of it are eye-rollingly New Age in tone, but that it has practical advice particularly in the first part in helping men stop from being Mr. NIce Guy and find purpose and mission in their lives.

The fact that you took time to threadjack and post one passage out of an entire book and then label the entire book misogynistic says more about you than the book itself. People can read it for themselves. It is a published by a left leaning publisher.

[This message edited by Thumos at 6:40 PM, August 31st (Monday)]

Couple of things. First see your doc about loss of sleep. 30 days of ambien sure worked for me.

Second, please please please go back and read and absorb my post about the tar baby. You can’t have her move out then sit down for dinner with her

Please absorb this for your own well being.

Please absorb this.

If you listen to nothing else here, please get this point.

AHG:

She convinced me that he is a valuable costumer and that I could charge extra for repairs or replacement if needed. She also said that since she has work in that town the same day she would ride with me. It was just a flame sensor that went bad I fixed it in less than 5 minutes, I was supposed to take her And drop her at the property where she would meet her colleague D, she told me that D was on her way and that I could leave. I found out that she was texting with him maybe as soon as I left or maybe when I was still getting my stuff out. She told him heater is fixed and that I was charging him $500 he told her I deserved $5 million for bringing her to him and that I’m a good husband for making sure my wife will be warm and cozy while having sex with him the right way. Or something like that.

Her explanation is that she didn’t mean to cuckold me she didn’t even think about it. She said that I did all of his HVAC work and that wasn’t any different. She claims that they didn’t have sex that day

She's lying. For this alone, I would strongly suggest you have her write out a full time line...tell her BEFORE she writes it that you wil verify with a polygraph. Have her start the time line 6 years ago...when she changed her appearance & habits ("going out with the girls").

It's up to you but, but I prefer the Wallope's approach, with a long list of questions face to face first (before the timeline), and like I said before, make sure you record the entire Q&A and clarify any ambiguities on the spot, that way she doesn't have time to prepare and analyze her answers before she gives them to you, by doing the Q&A first you could pick up any hesitations and/or resistance to any question from her, then you can have her write a detailed timeline which based on her 2 year LTA could take about a few weeks.

IMHO If you ask her to do the timeline first before the Q&A, she would be better prepared to some of the questions (similar to studying/reading a subject before a test in school), remember you won't be able to ask all those questions in a polygraph unless you're willing to spend a lot of money on several tests, the less prepared she is for the Q&A, the better. You could always do a follow up Q&A based on new information from the timeline before the polygraph.

Again this is the correct way to go to achieve maximum benefit but you do seem to shy away from confrontation and follow the path of least resistance

[This message edited by UnderCover at 8:15 PM, August 31st (Monday)]

They didn’t have sex the day you repaired the heating system?

You saw the texts. You know she did. We all know she did.

Tell her she needs to come up with a better story than that.

It doesn’t matter if they didn’t have sex the day the heater was fixed. The heater was fixed so that she could have sex. The OM did not care he was happy to get free sex but the WW needed a warm cosy room. She needed a warm room so she could do a man she was not married to.

🤦🏼‍♂️

masti makes a good point. I think my interpretation originally was that this was OM's idea. I don't think that was the case. I think WW was the one who wanted this done, which makes it that much worse. Clearly she isn't being honest about the whole situation, so I don't think AHg can know for sure. Either way, it was a terrible thing to do to a partner.

AHguy, hoping you are doing well today.

Masti nailed it . Look at her priority of needs - needs to have sex with om needs to get house warmed , well if she needs to humilate you to get 1 and 2 then so be it . Fun bullets for everyone . Why cant you just believe her when she says she loves you and only you ?

AH please be selfish and please just have one agenda for 1 week . This week just try melatonin Otc and get some sleep

Dont bother asking all your tough questions right now - you need some equilibrium back first

Ok lastly - addressed to people who dont already know this; the age of sexual consent in the US is typically 16-18 by state but there are laws against coercion and when some 50 year old fk starts feeling sexy about an 18 yr old babysitter chances are there will be jail time ahead .so please dont party like its 1997 or read content that normalizes this . Or at least dont insert these ideas gratuitously into otherwise well meaning advice threads

Not a thread jack because i dont expect any response and wont be following up . Please can we all remember alot of people read these posts and maybe Nabokov and other such writers can be limited to the book club section where a fuller discussion can be held with all the nuances needed

[This message edited by siracha at 1:00 PM, September 1st (Tuesday)]

I will also stress the importance of meeting face-to-face, having your questions written down and recording. I did not do the latter 2 and as a result had to have follow-up conversations to ask the things I had forgotten about. The good (or bad?) thing about that is I was easily able to determine she was lying by the subtle changes to the story.

I'd suggest taking a week or so to write down all the questions that you want answered. Start with the big stuff - Were there other affairs, how far along was the plan to leave you, whose idea was the tattoo, were friends encouraging her to cheat, etc. Then as you think the list over, you'll add new questions, reword some and even drop a few.

Pick a neutral spot for the meeting. Public, but not too public. A park with picnic tables so you can sit facing each other, etc. I would suggest pulling out your phone, setting it to record and placing it on the table. You can then explain that you have been having trouble concentrating, and want to be able to refer back to the conversation. As an added benefit, this tends to rattle some people and the rehearsed answers get forgotten. Chances are high that she will lie in some/all of her answers, and very high that she'll turn on the water works at some point. You'll have to guide the conversation back to logical, hopefully verifiable questions about what she has done, not how she felt about you or the marriage. This is just fact-gathering so you know exactly what you are dealing with.

When my WW wanted to avoid answering a question she'd act indignant, as in how dare I ask such a thing! She tried DARVO-like emotional responses like "You think I'm a whore" and "You'll never trust me again", and the classic "I don't know".

Place a check next to any question on your list where you get an "I don't know". That way, if you do decide to continue in the marriage you can ask it again until you receive a satisfactory answer.

Do NOT tell her this would be an interrogation meeting ahead of time, just tell her you want to talk, that way she's not prepared and rehearse some of the answers.

Place a check next to any question on your list where you get an "I don't know". That way, if you do decide to continue in the marriage you can ask it again until you receive a satisfactory answer.

This is good advice but make sure you press her on it hard before you move to the next question, her A just ended a couple of months ago so must of it should still be fresh, two years is NOT that long ago for her to forget important details.

OTOH it's important that you get enough sleep, even if you have to use some pills temporarily. Let me tell you something AHguy, you will get through this, you have a powerful tool called SI (your WW does NOT have it), I've "seen it" happened many times over and over again, those who listen to the collective wisdom of SI and heed the advice have much better results in the end and going forward.

Ok lastly - addressed to people who dont already know this; the age of sexual consent in the US is typically 16-18 by state but there are laws against coercion and when some 50 year old fk starts feeling sexy about an 18 yr old babysitter chances are there will be jail time ahead .so please dont party like its 1997 or read content that normalizes this . Or at least dont insert these ideas gratuitously into otherwise well meaning advice threads

Siricha, you're right it most certainly was a jarring out of place threadjack by that random poster who I don't think has ever commented in the now 80-some-odd pages of this thread. I agree that the place for a discussion on the merits or demerits of the book is elsewhere.

But since it was recommended on this thread to AH by me, and then used as a bizarre and out of place and inaccurate threadjack, I would be remiss if I allowed her misleading threadjack to falsely portray the book in question, which was limited to a short recommendation for AH as something that might be helpful to him.

So the thread-jacker makes it seem like the chapter she is citing is encouraging older men to creep on young women. But that's not what the chapter says at all.

I actually myself skipped over this section of the book, but now the threadjacker made me go back and read this part I missed. I'm glad I did. In The Way of the Superior Man David Deida here's what the chapter she put up a screenshot of ACTUALLY says on page 99 (and this is the last I'll say about it):

"As a man, it is your responsibility to honor the heart-rejuvenating gift of a young woman, without violating this honor by imposing your sexual desire on her."'

The threadjacker for whatever reason thought the only helpful thing she could do was to shoehorn her personal agenda into a thread trying to help a betrayed man by shaming a book recommendation and falsely portraying the actual content of the book. It seems like a deep disservice to the writer to lift a passage out of context and not quote the VERY NEXT page. Obviously the writer's point is that this is a daydream midlife men who have not examined themselves carefully will fall into with a younger woman, and then goes on to precisely lay out the opposite of what that daydream represents, recommending to men that they maintain honor from a place of inner integrity and to "maintain a respectful formality" "without being complicated by your personal agenda." It is clear the writer meant the exact OPPOSITE of what the threadjacker tried to represent.

AH, my recommendation of the book stands. It's a short and pithy book worth your time.

[This message edited by Thumos at 5:24 PM, September 1st (Tuesday)]

AH

I know this may not be important to you but did he really say "to have sex with him the right way"?

This indicates to me that a some point she complained to him about the way you had sex with her and that he was giving better sex "the right way". Why else would he say that in the way he said it. This would just indicate she still not being truthful with you.

[This message edited by Browsing41 at 7:30 PM, September 2nd (Wednesday)]

Just to clarify, siracha is dead wrong. There are no laws relating to age disparity when it comes to consensual sexual relations provided both parties are of legal age to consent. If there is forcible coercion,physical or the threat of physical, of course, that is a crime.

We are officially separated now. we both signed the agreement in front of a notary, many things happened the last 3 days, WW and I talked a lot mainly about the separation and what it meant, I gave her the draft yesterday, the only point she had an issue with is the sell of the properties, I explained to her that we will be forced to sell only if one of us insists and gave her my word that I would never force her to sell, she said she trust me and accepted, I even gave her time to consult another lawyer but she didn't want to. there were other incidents that happened that maybe we'll discuss with you later' she said she would answer any question I may have even the though ones, she wanted me to see the pastor yesterday evening but I couldn't make it so she is going to see when he would be available

Keep putting one foot in front of the other, and you will eventually walk out of this hell.

You're showing tremendous decency, respect, and kindness to your wife, considering she has shown you the exact opposite (to understate the case.)

Don't take any bullshit from the Pastor session! TELL THE TRUTH. If she finds it embarrassing, then that is tough.