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I second Buffer’s motion.

Thanks for saying that, Icthus!

[Quote]There is now so much transference going on in this thread that it is starting to sound like people are getting upset with AHGuy for wavering on the fence

Its seems sometimes akin to bullying

[This message edited by UnderCover at 7:18 AM, August 27th (Thursday)]

I posted my thoughts pages back on possible reconciliation.

I’m definitely in the minority that he should take his time making any decision.

And it is possible she could be a candidate for reconciliation.

It’s up to AH to decide and for us here at SI to support that choice.

Whew! A lot to unpack.

I simply can't believe that someone who lied to you and "eviscerated" you for such a long time only now gets it.

I feel you, AH. You want to try and save your marriage. Take your time.

But until she admits that she knew that what she was doing (the sex, the scheming, participating in the character assassination of you) was wrong but she did it anyways, then she will always be unsafe. And not just admitting it but truly understanding it.

She's still in self-preservation mode. Spin control. That needs to stop. There's no "appropriate" time for these tough talks. Whenever you need to ask she should be willing and brutally honest with you and herself.

I don't see any of that.

I think we all need to take a chill pill 💊, then take a breath and relax. Pass on constructive insight from Life’s experiences and let AHGuy take stock; and then with legal and IC guidance make a call. Time is on his side. Just strength to all.

Please no bashing's.

One day at a time

Buffer

[This message edited by Buffer at 4:04 AM, August 27th (Thursday)]

Thank you, Ichthus & Buffer.

Let the man breathe for Christsake! I know everyone means well, but he's reading tons of posts/advice every day plus dealing with the WW and life/work.

Quite sure AH is mature enough not to make too much of this criticism of his ww

But just incase someone else ( younger ) is in a similar situation and reading these posts id like to clarify that some people ( self included) cant watch a horror movie and not scream “ watch out “‘ “ dont do that” .even “‘are you crazy” . . I agree when there are ten similar posts it can seem like bullying even when noone has any negative intentions

Also “moral hazard “ is having the luxury of being exceedingly bold and facing zero consequences for it . Its primarily an economics concept I believe, but always at play when you are divorcing other peoples spouses for them on the internet

There are undeniable facts in regard of the funace insident, but also alot of speculation of what did AHWW intentions were and what elsa she did.

AH

I think that the way to ask your WW all you need is by being honest. By telling her that you are feelling ambivalent about D or R, and explaining to her that you need to know details in order to process her A, I think she Will be willing to help. She has Lost everything, so a small posibility to save her family would make her do anything!! And if she doesnt, you have all you need to know.

You can even ask her to move out, if you feel like

Being honest includes letting her know that there is a very tin change to stop the D, and a smaller chance to even rey to R.

In other hand, you will need to improve the comunicación with your WW, no matter if R or D.

[This message edited by Mrhealed at 6:10 AM, August 27th (Thursday)]

Duplicated

[This message edited by Mrhealed at 6:10 AM, August 27th (Thursday)]

I think AH is doing a fantastic job handling this.

It hasn't been that long since his world came crumbling down.

All the emotions and thoughts that he's shared with SI are par to the course and the emotional roller coaster that it puts you on.

I do not think that AH has stuck his head in the sand either nor will he moving forward. He's trying to sort this out and how best to handle it.

As others have mentioned, this is HIS life, HIS journey, so man some of you need to back the F off and let him do what is best for him.

Yes there are some unanswered questions his WW has yet to answer, and from what I've seen by his comments that if he were to attempt R these questions would need to be answered before he truly considered it. Just my opinion.

This goes without saying, AH, do what you need to do, and SI is here to support you no matter what direction you go.

In the meantime take care of yourself.

My main concern is this

AH

I feel weak. I am weak . I' am easily influenced like if I don't have strong ground to base my decision on. the comments here influence me easily so are her words and when I read Oldlion posts I'm influenced too. why? because I'm weak that's it. let me admit something, I cherry-pick some of the comments here so I can direct the influence. I keep reading Thomus comments over and over so I can eliminate all other influences. is it healthy or right? I don't think so but for a guy like me I'd say fuck it. I'm done

Some seem to have picked this up and run with it

Decades of marriage isn't something to be rushed to finish and its not a reason to stay BUT it is a reason to take your TIME to make a decision with all available information before any final path is followed

[This message edited by UnderCover at 7:38 AM, August 27th (Thursday)]

My main concern is this

AH

feel weak. I am weak . I' am easily influenced like if I don't have strong ground to base my decision on. the comments here influence me easily so are her words and when I read Oldlion posts I'm influenced too. why? because I'm weak that's it. let me admit something, I cherry-pick some of the comments here so I can direct the influence. I keep reading Thomus comments over and over so I can eliminate all other influences. is it healthy or right? I don't think so but for a guy like me I'd say fuck it. I'm done

Some seem to have picked this up and run with it

Decades of marriage isn't something to be rushed to finish and its not a reason to stay BUT it is a reason to take your TIME to make a decision with all available information before any final path is followed

There is another issue with this too though. AHGuys WW is a skilled manipulator and has been cycling through tactics in what looks very much like an attempt to get him off balance to get her way.

AHGuy loved who he thought this woman was, but seems to have a hard time seeing her for who she truly is.

This could be a very big disadvantage to him and the longer he is around her and she can get hooks in to him or the family, the church, etc he will be making his decisions at the hands of a very manipulative person and not for his own reasons.

AHGuy please keep your distance from her as best you can as you work this out. Please do a poly.

AH knows very well who his WW is, and we need to remember this woman isn't our wife and AH's life is not our lives. Every man (and woman) has to determine for themselves how to navigate through the hellstorm.

Lets talk about his business. AH has employees and customers who depend on him. He can't just dissolve his business like it's a popsicle stand. He has warranties on his work and installs that he will have to uphold for a year or more... meaning that even if he shuts the company down, he is still responsible for those warranties. I couldn't fathom shutting down my HVAC company and then a month later a client who hired me to install a 5 ton rooftop unit calls me and tells me the unit went tits-up and I need to crane in a new one, on my time and at my expense. The unit is probably covered under manufacturer warranty, but not all the other expenses... a crane, AH's time, gas, tools, taxes and labor...

The shit aint easy. This stupid WW of his is a real estate person. She can get a job fairly quickly anywhere in her state. Property managers are always in demand somewhere. AH is a specialist, and older. It is going to be harder for him to find work because most HVAC outfits already have master techs and they usually hire apprentice level kids right out of tech college. After months of looking he might be able to get a job as a crew chief or supervisor for some HVAC company, but why would he want to step down in his life and go to work for someone else after he has been his own boss for so long?

AH has a lot of stuff on is mind, above and beyond his wife's infidelity. So I agree we need to cut the man some slack.

[This message edited by Westway at 9:47 AM, August 27th (Thursday)]

he told her I deserved $5 million for bringing her to him and that I’m a good husband for making sure my wife will be warm and cozy while having sex with him the right way. Or something like that.

Her explanation is that she didn’t mean to cuckold me she didn’t even think about it. She said that I did all of hShe claims that they didn’t have sex that dayis HVAC work and that wasn’t any different.

Nope, Nope, Nope. That's bullshit. Nobody goes to all that trouble (and RISK) without there being some sort of sexual payoff. Notice how the details are slowly, subtly changing now? Because she realizes, post facto, how serious a transgression this was. She now wishes to minimize, minimize, minimize to make you think it was somehow less of a humiliation. Look, AH, she arranged for you to be there. You never dealt with the POSOM one time for that particular job, right? Ultimately, they had sex! Does it matter, really, that it was one day or the next day? She arranged this. It was on her completely. And it WASN'T "like any other HVAC job for any long standing client", because your wife was f*cking this client! That's a MAJOR critical difference, right there! Don't you think?

There is nothing wrong with feeling the lingering effects of outrage over this, AH. It was a cruel and dismissive thing for them to do, as if you were some sort of lesser being or convenient thing to manipulate.

Yeah, that heater deal was pretty cruel. Never could understand the mockery aspects , the trash talking etc. that goes on in a lot of these affairs.

I notice that a lot, if not all, of the cheat were s that post in the wayward section, essentially, deny doing any of this type of gratuitous cruelty. So, maybe its presence is a distinguishing factor between the types that have remorse and those that do not.

BTW, I was treated to being awoken from a sound sleep after caring for my toddlers while my XW was out until 3, to be regaled with a detailed filled description of the pro athlete's physique who she had been out with that night.

BTW, I was treated to being awoken from a sound sleep after caring for my toddlers while my XW was out until 3, to be regaled with a detailed filled description of the pro athlete's physique who she had been out with that night.

Well she was a special kind of cruel asshole wasn't she?

Margaret Heffernan has written an excellent book called "Willful Blindness". Willful blindness is a concept I'm very familiar with even though I didn't know what it was or that I was practicing it.

Under duress we return to the environment we are familiar with even if it is toxic. The abused return to their abuser. The betrayed return (or don't leave) their betrayer. IMO it's part of the push/pull a BS goes through as they agonize over their betrayal and their future.

I wonder if this is what you're going through, AH, as you read and agonize over your situation.

My advice is time and contemplation as well, but also quick action to protect your business and what you built. That is a non-starter. It has to happen. However it happens that should be a priority. Your kids welfare should also be his priority.

Your heart, that's what hurts. And when you're hurt it's hard to determine what to do. You're just desperate to get out of the pain and you're not sure what's real anymore or where to turn.

When faced with a betrayal like this, and it's huge, you have to take quick action to protect what could be wrecked in a divorce legally. If you can't protect it then it's likely best to end it and rebuild on your own. Then, you have to really look deeply and see what you want to do. To do that, you need full information to know what you're even considering (polygraph) and you need the distance away from the other person to really consider what you want to happen...away from the manipulation.

People, even good people, are capable of amazing cruelty. Evil people are capable of good acts. Every single one of us is a shade of grey. Sifting through those parts of h

Your marriage, should you even admit to wanting to save it, takes time and contemplation.

And it should.

Everyone here knows what it's like to wake up one morning with a stranger in your house who did tortious damage to your idea of self. Many here know what it's like to suddenly wake up in the night to reach over to the other side of an empty bed, waking from sleep and thinking that the friend you once had might still be there. Many have a better life without, and some are wounded to the point where they struggle to put one foot in front of the other.

I doubt you can tell who you are anymore AH. You've got to know who you are again before you make this decision. Some, off the bat, just know. My guess is that you're a fixer. It's your profession. You see a problem and you fix it. Right now your instinct is to 'fix' the problem but you don't even know what's wrong so your knee jerk reaction is to leave. It's what you think a strong man would do but it is hard also to walk away from a problem. You know that might not 'fix' it so you're looking for some way to get it all back the way it was before.

It won't go back there. You won't go back there. Even if you reconcile this event changes you. You have two options, come out of this and use the adversity to be a better man for YOU or you fall deeper until you hit bottom.

This is the time you redefine your life for you. Who do you want to be?

And until you can answer that question beyond a reasonable doubt, I would say to contemplate. If you can't protect your business and financial security, then I'd walk right now and rebuild with what comes out, but that's just me. Your kids are older, custody isn't such a big deal. Your kids and livelihood come first but your kids are older.

Did you WW do something terrible? Yes. Can people change? Yes. But they have to want to do that for themselves, not because of a fear of what they'll lose if they don't. That's the separating of assets in a fair manner now. She won't have to worry about what she will lose. It's takes out the guess work. That's the polygraph, as it will show you certain truths that you need to know.

Marriage can't be ownership. We don't own another person and we can't force our ideals on them. They have to want to be in it. You're sure that for two years she didn't want your family like that. She didn't want you like that. She wanted stable comfort from a safe man. And she got it. Now, fun guy is gone. Would she pick you again if she was really, truly free? Would you pick her? Or would she run back to what's known and safe? Is that what you're thinking of doing?

This storm in your mind will take a long time to wind it's way through. This storm in her mind will take a long time to stop. The clouds will clear, one day, and you'll see everything clearly. You're not there yet. And that's ok. Take your time to see it. When you know, you'll know, cliche as that sounds.

The non negotiable items are your future with your business and your kids. The rest... Take your time, or at least feel free to do that.

I can say this. By the time my divorce was final my exWW still didn't get it, at all. When I even talked about divorce she ran back to AP. At the end, she even said, "AP thinks you and I could be together.". I say this because even after a year of gut twisting pain, she still didn't get it. And she had no fight in her. She also quickly moved on to the next flavor of the week. She is chasing happiness that she doesn't have in her. That's what I saw at the end; a very sad person desperate for love and approval no matter where it came from. A scared child of a person wanting anyone to tell her it would be ok. I was sad for her. But it's also dangerous.

Your WW may be any number of things. But you probably want to see what it is. It'll give you calmness and the questions of "what if" might not keep you up as much at night if you take your time and you're sure of your choice.

Or you might sleep soundly with divorce. Again, no shame, no camps, no encouragement to do either thing. You have to live for you and it's going to hurt either way. A lot. We can be here to listen, but you have to make the call. Play it how you want to, just protect yourself and give yourself enough grace to know it'll hurt either way, and that's ok.

Great post, Wagging!

AH

Im just going to repeat what other have already said. It seems in your heart you would like to reconcile but your mind is telling you its impossible. I think this is Normal for someone that is in you in your situation.

If you are 100 percent sure that you are going to divorce your wife and are sure you will never reconcile you can just disregard what I say next.

I'm pretty sure deep down you probably realize that you don't know everything that your wife has done in the last 5-6 years. Going off of what you told us and what she told you the chances are very high that she was unfaithful in the 3-4 years prior to her recent affair. It's just hard to imagine otherwise. She was always out partying with friends getting tattoos and all this time she was in that state of mind she addmited she was in holding resentment towards you in all that time.

I'm all for trying to reconcile if that is what would make you happy. I just can't see how even the thought of that could be possible without knowing everything. Are at least attempting to to get the truth which you have not even attempted to do.

I really thought by now you would have hit that stage needing to know everything and would have gone on a truth finding mission, like most of us on si at some point did. If divorce is 100 percent and you don't feel you need to know everything I completely understand that. But just know that to attempt to reconcile without going on that truth finding mission would be a huge mistake.

For what it's worth I think even if you divorce you will at some point regret not trying to find all of the truth. Simply for closure which you deserve and just to feel like you made the right decision.