SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

It's hard watching someone you care about (or once cared about), crash and burn at their own hands.

But she needs to this. She made her choices. She needs to suffer the consequences. This is the only way she can change from all of this.

It is not your job to save her. It is only your responsibility to protect yourself and the ones you love from the inevitable fallout.

Save yourself first.

AH,

It is my perception that your WW argumentation line, tune, has evolve since the talk on your truck and the email. She has moved from:

· The marriage was too bad that the only way to not getting D was to have the A

· Did thing with OM because you didn’t want them,

· Be willing to R but you need to change; and

· “I am sorry you feel that way” in regard driving hours to OM house to “deliver her” to OM

To:

· Offer you a hall pass and even let you persuade a relation with a new women.

· People from church ambush

· Informing all her moves and more by text

So be prepare for the talk as she will use all in her hand to get you to R.

Keep in mind that she is desperate, so will minimize (“We didn’t meet that much”; “Sex was bad and never orgasmed”, etc) and say that it all was a fantasy (“never loved the OM”, “never stop loving you”, “never planned to leave you”) and believe it!

But let me tell you something about fantasy. IMO the so call fog (this thing that clouds WW minds) is the way we bound to each other, it not something different for WW. I believe that we have all experience a juvenile love, where we loved someone but the circumstances, or even our own changes, took us apart from the loved one. Nobody can deny that was real!! An immature and unrealistic fantasy, but real.

I believe you should let her talk all she wants, that’s one on the points to address, at least on her side, out of this talk. It will be hard, she will cry, make promises, the whole thing, and the worst thing is that most all of that will be real pain she is feeling. So jjst keep in mind that this was her choice, not yours. Don’t let her tell you that R is for good people, or stronger ones. R or D has nothing to do with good, evil, weakness, strength, doing the right thing, etc. It only has to do with who you are. Some people can, some can not, as simple as that.

There is a thin line between anger and punishment, between sadness and accepting bullshit. I think you should not be hard on her, try to stay calm and not say thing that later you may regret, even if she deserves it! In the other hand, don’t let her sadness softened your hear, don’t make any promises and don’t accept what you really don’t want.

Keeping calm, or at least trying to, don’t mean to no show emotions

Would also be a good idea to prepare a list of things you would like to know about the A, if there is anything at all you would like to know for closure.

Last thing, after the talk may be good idea to tell her that communications, at least for the time being, should be reduced to logistics, D and kids. If you feel like having another call you can set a date, but ask her to give you space.

Good luck

I haven't been chiming in a lot on this thread, AH. You're getting some great advice by some of the people on here I respect the most.. I could hardly do better. Good luck on the one on one with her.

A couple of points on Ramius' excellent list. I got my own version of exactly the same points as these some years ago. With your kind permission, I'll dredge up my responses:

You’re the only one I truly love.

If I remember it right, I replied back-- what you did to me wasn't love. It wasn't even in the same ballpark as "love".. it wasn't even the same sport. People in love don't DO this.

It was just sex, it didn’t mean anything.

Oh boy, that old trigger phrase. Gets me every time (I'm being very subjective here). "Sex means something to ME, YOUR HUSBAND. Including the notion of you, MY WIFE, having sex with someone NOT YOUR HUSBAND. This can't be minimized or laughed off. Do you see this? I thought that I was special to you. I can see that I never really was."

The sex wasn’t good. (I'll add the corollary to this, "Sex with you is better")

"Somehow, I'm not buying that. The fact that you made the choice you did and for as long as you did indicates the sex was pretty good. The fact that you chose this outside of marriage and kept choosing it indicates you were satisfied with it"

The only reason I had sex with him was to keep the complements coming.

(My ex said "I was hooked on the attention")

To which I responded something like "And what was your game plan? Did you think this was sustainable.. that you could risk this forever? We're having this discussion, right now, because a friend of our marriage tipped me off after you were seen together IN PUBLIC. Did you think this would last forever? Was it worth it, trading "attention" as a price for destroying our family? This seems very shallow to me."

I see now that you are the best thing that ever happened to me.

(this should be obvious) You mean now, now that you've been caught red handed, now that two marriages are imploding, our children are devastated, their children are devastated.. NOW, NOW you see how I am the best thing that ever happened to you? Hey, I must look pretty good right now!

I only wanna be with you.

(also obvious) Well hey, I wanted to be in a monogamous relationship. Life sucks all around, I guess.

I didn’t mean for it to happen.

Lordy, there's the OTHER triggering stupid phrase I hate to see out of the cheater's handbook, but, yes, my ex actually used that on me, too. She's going to say it, I'm reasonably confident, so don't let it get you angry. I didn't handle it well:

"(curse words) You didn't mean for it to happen. You didn't MEAN FOR IT TO HAPPEN? You weren't seduced. You didn't trip on his penis. You were his active, eager accomplice. You helped plan your meetings. You scheduled to meet him when I (KingofNothing) was on travel! You didn't MEAN for it to happen? Calling BS on that! You absolutely meant for this to happen!"

Okay, that last one, I don't recommend my response. I don't react to being gaslighted very well at all. It's kind of intellectually insulting to think you believe their bullshit.

Anyway, that's where I was some years back, when confronted with these classics from the Cheater's handbook. Keep practicing a good response to the common excuses. Keep a level head. Don't let this ruin your last days in FL. Grab some beers. Put your toes in the sand. Watch some of those amazing sunsets and eat some good Spanish Food.

Dammit, now I want to go visit the Gulf towns again.

You have your goal in sight. Remember, play the long game. There will be time to 'putt out', but right now, play the long game. Keep in control of yourself, and the situations.

Write out the best plan for you to get the best result.

Move forward. One step at a time.

If you are unable to meet with her without maintaining control of your emotions, consider meeting at a public venue, like a cafe, or by letter if that suites.

[This message edited by paboy at 4:57 PM, August 14th (Friday)]

Why would you meet for another ‘talk’ again after you return? What’s in it for you?

She’s already had several hours in your truck driving around the beltway to ‘explain’ herself.

Plus there were subsequent face to face discussions.

She already told you why she had the affair and what she will do to make herself a safe partner … and you’ve already very civilly explained that you plan to divorce & why.

1 - Your decision to divorce is not a surprise to her - somewhere in your posts she initially told your daughter that there is no chance you would not divorce her.

Therefore, another emotional and painful meeting just for her to ‘talk’ is not really necessary at this time.

2 - IMO, prior to her actually signing off on the division of assets, anything else she has to say or clarify she can put in writing.

3 - Stay in control of the process by setting the agenda, minimize face to face situations where she has the advantage, and provide her with an incentive to sign off (no more face to face ‘talks’ until she signs).

Safe travels and good luck on the home front.

I know it does not feel like it but you are doing well. You have stood up for your marriage, your family and most importantly youself.

The choice is now is yours. Do what is best for you.

Why would you meet for another ‘talk’ again after you return? What’s in it for you?

For 2 reasons, 1- she said she has things to talk about and I believe if I let her say whatever in her mind we can start to move forward. 2- I want to talk to her amicably about a consensual Divorce .

Some people also question my dad‘s opinion, my dad does not want me to reconcile or divorce, he just want me to take time to think about it and to not rush into any decision. He thinks the way I’m handling it is like putting my head in the sand and not facing the problem.

I’m about 2 hours away from home so I don’t think I will talk to her today hopefully tomorrow. She has been respecting my privacy since my mom talk to her 4 days ago, she only texted my son wishing us a nice trip and then texted him again this morning to see where we are.

For 2 reasons, 1- she said she has things to talk about and I believe if I let her say whatever in her mind we can start to move forward. 2- I want to talk to her amicably about a consensual Divorce .

Some people also question my dad‘s opinion, my dad does not want me to reconcile or divorce, he just want me to take time to think about it and to not rush into any decision. He thinks the way I’m handling it is like putting my head in the sand and not facing the problem.

I’m about 2 hours away from home so I don’t think I will talk to her today hopefully tomorrow. She has been respecting my privacy since my mom talk to her 4 days ago, she only texted my son wishing us a nice trip and then texted him again this morning to see where we are.

AHGuy, you're handling things just fine. I think your dad's advice is also great advice to have. He's older, knows you and the situation better than anyone here...

I approve of this conversation. And let her have her full say. Be patient and listen. Keep emotions at bay. When she is done, you can respond with what you feel is best and move forward accordingly as you see best.

Good luck tomorrow.

You’ve been given a lot of good potential responses. But you could not remember them all if you were a Rhodes scholar.

You might think of a default for when she pressures you or tries to manipulate or lawyer out of something. Usually followed by a big why.

It might be something like “Because you were fucking a guy behind my back for two years while telling him you loved him.”

She may have some grand proposal, ie. let’s live apart for a while and start renewing things from ground zero. Or Give me a chance and I will prove to you my love and if after a while you feel you can’t do it I will understand.

The answer is No. I can’t accept what you did.

Whatever your default, stick to it. There was a guy here a while ago and to every attempt at his wife to maneuver, spin or deflect, he responded with, “just sign the papers.”

After a while, through repetition, it will sink in.

Every post you make engenders a dozen responses. Some are diametrically opposed. Just do what you need and remember that you don’t need to appease all of us circling sharks. We will back you to the hilt whichever way you go.

[This message edited by longsadstory1952 at 10:19 PM, August 16th (Sunday)]

Good luck with the talk, let cool heads prevail.

Try not to get too heated or defensive. You can tackle this in small incriminating periods so to keep positive control and not let heated heads take control.

One day at a time

Buffer

Good Morning AH

I have not posted because you needed a vacation. I hope it went well, thought you might hit the gulf for some Grouper fishing.

I do believe your wife is doing everything she can to save the marriage and has done well compared to most WS. You can start a divorce and change your mind.

As you get into this divorce do not let your kindness get in the way of a settlement in your favor. Do everything you can to secure YOUR future. Remember it is possible she will go back to the AP with half your business and property. I strongly suggest that you fight for everything with your attorney, even if that means filling under adultery. Your integrity includes fighting for your employees future.

It is highly unlikely she will lose her realtor licence.

My attitude was, so what if she takes my money, I can make more, she could not. Little did I know her fling was a LTR and continued with my married friend and employee until he took all his wife's money and married my EX. Do not play the nice guy with a cheap attorney like I did.

I hope your are ready for the conversation with your wife. Don't be afraid to put the ball in your attorneys court. Let your attorney fight for you.

Respectfully,

Organic2003

Good, AH. I wondered if you were going to meet with her because others including your Dad thought you should with no other reason. You have your valid reasons. Strength of mind and clarity of thought. Stay strong.

AH stray strong

Basically she gets the rental house and the 12 mo to prove to you to give her a nother chance and not be labeled an adulterous in court records, you get the main house and your business. Or she carries the stigma of being an adulterous on court papers the rest of her life. You don't have to carrie this for her. She knew what she was doing for 2 years. Consequences. Who knows maybe she can change your mind? Still praying for you to have wisdom and clear thought.

AH,

Its been I guess a week since you left and four days since she stopped texting you.

I hope you do not forget that that means she has had a week to prepare her sales presentation, which gives her the advantage because you are coming off a week of not thinking about it as much.

I suggest before you sit her down to talk to take another look at what the OBS has sent you so that what she is trying to sell you to put aside is fresh in your mind.

And I'd ad that you tell her you are recording her answers so that if by some chance you do get to polygraph what she told you cannot be disputed.

You said you know there are questions you should ask. I'd start with how many other guys did you have sex with in the four years prior to OM that this is all about.

[This message edited by BeyondRage at 8:02 AM, August 17th (Monday)]

Its been I guess a week since you left and four days since she stopped texting you.

I hope you do not forget that that means she has had a week to prepare her sales presentation,

BeyondRage, I guess you are right, she was prepared.we had an interesting talk , her tone has changed, I don’t know if it is desperation or remorse. I didn’t record it so I will try to give you the main ideas of the conversations later when I have more time to type.

Back to reality after a needed break. Back to busy work life. One of my employee had an unbelievable emergency that prevented him from coming to work since Wednesday, he came back today feeling down, I wanted to comfort him but his English outside of work vocabulary is limited and my Spanish is even worse than his English, and yes he caught his wife cheating with her ex. My son told me his story it was very sad and somehow funny too. His wife has 2 kids from previous relationship the father came to see his kids from a different state then stayed overnight, the poor guy went to work Wednesday leaving his wife with her EX in the house,, when he told that to my son and another coworker they both jokingly told him that his wife and her ex were probably fucking at that moment, it was 8;00 it hit him and decided to leave the job and went back home to find them indeed fucking on his bed. He didn’t come back to work till today apologizing to me for missing work, I told him to take care of himself and to not worry about anything else. I know exactly how it feels. Crazy thing is that he already forgave her. what a fucked up world! I'm catching up to some business but I will have an update later today I'm a bit confused and want your take on it.

AHGuy, have you considered asking your WW to grant you a divorce to allow you to heal and also to euthanize the marriage that she fatally damaged? Then, after the divorce has gone through, and she has gone through individual counseling to figure out her whys, then the two of you could try dating again and maybe even go to couples' counseling together? Just a possibility I'm throwing out there.

AHGuy, have you considered asking your WW to grant you a divorce to allow you to heal and also to euthanize the marriage that she fatally damaged? Then, after the divorce has gone through, and she has gone through individual counseling to figure out her whys, then the two of you could try dating again and maybe even go to couples' counseling together? Just a possibility I'm throwing out there

Westway, yes I did ask for something similar onto what you said and she came back with a crazy offer, please be patient I will share with you as soon as I’m in front of a keyboard, too much typing by phone.

KingOfNothing,

Well hey, I wanted to be in a monogamous relationship. Life sucks all around, I guess.

That may be the greatest response to that line of bull hockey I have ever heard. Well played.

AHGuy,

Just sending you hugs and strength - I know just how difficult that conversation had to be. Remember your self care - especially now. And I look forward to your next update.

Warm wishes

AHGuy, have you considered asking your WW to grant you a divorce to allow you to heal and also to euthanize the marriage that she fatally damaged? Then, after the divorce has gone through, and she has gone through individual counseling to figure out her whys, then the two of you could try dating again and maybe even go to couples' counseling together? Just a possibility I'm throwing out there.

Exactly what I did. D was required, with assurance that I would be fully vested in the development of a new committed R. My WW knew this was the only option I offered to rebuilding. Her response was to offer D on any grounds and financial basis of my choosing. That went a long way to holding me accountable to the commitment to trying R that I offered her.

I would not have agreed to R had she not agreed. It was what I needed. We did remarry a couple years later. It did not make our R a problem free experience, but it went a long way for me to show deference to her fixing herself process. It is 30 years later. We are still together.