SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

On top of that she is losing her job that I know she loves. She is in a middle of a disaster and I can do nothing about it.

To be fair real estate agencies are a dime a dozen plus 3% comission.She is good at sales and talking, she will be able to find another job. She ain't the first or last agent to get involved with clients or other agents. No one cares about that.

The family situation is more dire.She can't just go find another family.

She made the disaster, she needs to get out of it, maybe you will be there when she does or maybe not. Put the oxygen mask on yourself before trying to help fellow passengers.

AH,

I need to talk to her and that’s the advice I’m getting from my dad

Your dad is a smart man as while you might decide to D but with kids you will always have some type of interaction with her.

She is in a middle of a disaster and I can do nothing about it. Part of me is dying for her but I keep reminding myself to ignore these feelings

When you do talk avoid the kisa syndrome I once faced.

Just want to point out, that when it comes down to D (which is what you sound as though you've decided on) suddenly the gloves come of and thy're going for every penny they can get.

Guess what it's not their fault (just like nothing has been your wife's fault) it's their lawyer who's doing it all !!

Seriously just a warning for down the line.

AH, this is your decision. But I do want to caution you that getting into an extended conversation with her is likely to involve several factors that will interfere with your resolve, muddy the waters on what is a straightforward set of facts and play with your emotions. It is likely she will:

-Break down in sobs (while this in fact may be a genuine expression of sadness, you will notice over time that unfortunately it seems to also be oddly timed for tactical advantage). You might steel yourself for this, so that you are more inured to it. Just know that the tears are as much for herself as anything else, and that will probably help you.

-Minimize (that is to say, lie and dissemble and try to reduce the weightiness of this)

-Elide (that is to say, be purposefully vague and slippery about things she doesn’t want to address)

-Play on your fears of being alone

-Seek comfort from you, reach for your hand, try for an embrace etc

-Subtly continue to blameshift

-Continue to trickle truth based on the set of facts she thinks you know.

-use religion as a pressure point

-Discount your pain and your reality

-recruit the opinions of others to sow doubt in your mind

- Finally I've seen more than a few hints that your WW will DARVO you (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender). Become familiar with this tactic and how to spot it.

You get the idea. And I know you’ve thought about this. You will really need to pay attention to every word she says and the context. It can be exhausting.

I’m not generalizing when I say that for the most part science has determined women have at least some advantage over men in terms of verbal fluency. And as we all know your wife is a salesperson used to assembling and making a verbal case, switching gears and tactics quickly to find weak points, etc.

So just know you’re going into that conversation outgunned.

KISS (keep it simple, stupid) is probably your best bet. Don’t follow her down verbal rabbit holes, don’t try to decipher any Byzantine statements. Stick to your guns. Don’t get entangled in debating her or in justifying yourself.

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:21 PM, August 13th (Thursday)]

Yeah meet with her and let her talk. She needs to say her peace. You can pretty much guess what it’s going to be.

Most of the time, they tend to read off the exact same script, some variations on the following:

I never meant to hurt you.

I never stopped loving you.

I wasn’t really in love with him, even though I said it over and over, and I was buying him special gifts, and shaving, and buying new lingerie for him,

I was never going to leave you… Even though I told him I was going to.

You’re the only one I truly love.

It was just sex, it didn’t mean anything.

The sex wasn’t good.

The only reason I had sex with him was to keep the complements coming.

I see now that you are the best thing that ever happened to me.

I only wanna be with you.

I didn’t mean for it to happen.

He said nice things to me.

He listened it to me.

I will spend the rest of my life trying to make it up to you.

I have FFO issues.

Etc etc. basically prepare yourself for a word salad of clichés and tears. This way she can’t say that you didn’t give her a chance to explain herself. And once she’s done, you can just state your position, and how you want things to proceed.

while this in fact may be a genuine expression of sadness, you will notice over time that unfortunately it seems to also be oddly timed for tactical advantage

Lol, Thumos, where exactly is the line between wisdom and cynicism?

AH. Hope guys gacatuin provides your with some peace even if temporary.

I would like to suggest that the talk you are about to have with her will be emotionally charged. Similar to your cheating wife, my cheating H was deep into the Affair. He repeatedly asked for a D for 5 months. Dday2 he demanded one yet again. He was planning on dumping me to be with the OW (though I did not know why he wanted a D. He refused to be honest).

Like I was t going to find out.

Anyway he’s begging me to R. I just did the hard 180 and ignored him. I had no intention of reconciling. I finally couldn’t listen to his words any longer and watch the drama. I told him to go figure it out on his own. I wasn’t helping or supporting him.

Point is he started taking action. It took many many months for me to even consider reconciling.

He was deep in the affair. He was kicking me to the curb for a younger model. How we got past it was with grit and determination and commitment and HIM making many changes. I could see him have remorse and his commitment to making amends.

Can you rebound from this? Only you know what you can tolerate. But her crying and sobbing is her despair. But you need to see her remorse. You need to see her willingness to she changes in her life.

You should not help her. You shouid not tell her what to do. She’s on her own here.

Good advice Ramius! That is quite a comprehensive list. And AH, I am rooting for you. I hope whatever path you choose brings you the peace you so richly deserve.

I think you may need some ready rebuttals

1. Any reference to church / Jesus / forgiveness

Answer :i am glad you feel so strongly about religion. I hope you are still capable of living out true religious values and not just faking religion whenever it suits you

Even though we are talking about divorce i can still forgive you in time

2. Any reference to your kids

Answer : You will always be their mother , they do love you and will certainly forgive you but please acknowledge how you have let them down

3. Any references to your father

My father doesnt know all the details and for your sake I would never tell him . Please leave him out of it

3. Any references to the OBS

Please dont bad mouth her, it wasnt her idea for you to lie to me and have relations with her husband

4. Any reference to her depression

Please see a therapist and seek guidance from your pastor

I hope you feel better but i cant be responsible for this and i cant dix it

5. Any bid to make you feel sorry/ responsible / save her / get back into your heart

Luckily you havent been emotionally dependent on me for years , and luckily for me now i know . You should address your emotional needs to your friends and FOO , i am sure they still love you alot - because you didnt cheat on them .

6. Tears

Dont cry , you are stronger than you think , if i can survive this you certainly can

7. If only you spent more time with me : if only you went to MC

I want to be with someone i am already enough for . I want to be with someone who has never cheated on me . I want to be with someone who likes vacations in canada .

I unconsciously made the right decision every time because you were just always the wrong person .

8 do you still love me

I love the person you used to be before you were a cheater .i dont know who you are now . It seems you are the type of person who makes me fix heaters so the temperature is clement enough for your sexual adventures with other people.

Never wrong to say kind words if you can ; but dont get manipulated into saying any of this :

You are good at ———-

Im sure you will bounce back

Im sure Your kids will eventually forgive you

You wont always feel this bad

You are still a good person in many ways

Dont hate yourself

Give yourself time

Marriage isnt for everyone , maybe its not right for you at this time , maybe thats what your heart was telling you

[This message edited by siracha at 6:11 PM, August 13th (Thursday)]

AH

Ramius just gave it to you A-Z. Quite frankly I don’t know why you even want to listen to it. You’ve told the people here you are divorcing her. It’s time to tell Dad the same thing. I wonder what he’d say if you turned over all the info you had to him. You do not need this from relatives now. They need to respect your decision, not you justifying it .

You are just opening yourself up to more of the same . What can she possibly say that you could believe after reading what she wrote that you never were supposed to see

The job thing is strange . If OM didn’t spill the beans, and you are divorcing her why would she be out of job? Supposedly the only one that knew was the one girlfriend???

And to top it all off there’s still a four year period where there were GNO galore, tattoos, and who knows what that there have been no questions or answers about

This talk should be about logistics of divorce but it appears it’s going to be one more time for her to “sell you” and close the deal

You owe her nothing but a fair divorce . If you choose R there’s a shitload of stuff you’re still clueless about

Good luck

I’m going against the grain here but I don’t think yet another discussion where your wife tries to explain things simply to hear her talk is a good idea. By my count, there have already been at least three major discussions, at least one long written paean to Your faults and shortcomings which led to the devil making her do it and everything you saw with your own eyes being lies, an intervention by her church members in which I assume she was a party, numerous short encounters and texts, explanations which have been relayed to you through family. An endless series of promises and denials. Lie, deny, cry, promise, minimize, blame, rinse repeat.

Is there something new in the equation that I have missed? I know it has been crazy making. I know you are being pressured, but you don’t owe her anything more than you have already put up with.

So why subject yourself to more? It’s clear she is wanting to keep getting do overs until you see her way of thinking. (I still can’t get past the “its so simple” canard).

Do what you need to do. If you see something therapeutic then go ahead. I just don’t see the point of subjecting yourself to yet another attempt to get you to see that the last two years have had nothing to do with you and now that Jesus is back at the wheel you can feel safe and loved and reassured. All I see from her is rhapsodic perjury, magical self delusional thinking, and manipulative behavior all pushing you to continue to live in pain, to not honor yourself for her sake and her needs.

OW is other woman = OM other man

OMW other man wife = BW betrayed wife

OBS/OBW other betrayed spouse/wife

OW not = BW or OBS or OBW

[This message edited by oldtruck at 6:07 PM, August 13th (Thursday)]

Thanks :)

AHF both Ramius and siracha have given you a very useful template to use. I suggest you read it and be prepared. The problem is right now that her remorse has not kicked in. It is still shame, regret and blameshifting. No matter however much she denies, if the OBS had not trapped her, she was preparing to leave as soon as your youngest was of age. Of course the reality is that the OM would have strung her along and extended his leaving date as he was never going to leave his wife on his own.

At the moment reality has hit her in the face like ice cold water and she is coming to terms with the destruction she has bought upon her family. But until she gets independent counselling she will not learn or even be aware of the damage she has caused not just AHG and her children but even to the OBS.

AH, I think you need to stop taking advice from your father. Either that or fill him in completely. He can't possibly give you his best advice if he's working from incomplete information.

Actually, why are you hiding this information from him? Who are you protecting? How foolish do you think he's going to feel when he finds out the whole truth and thinks back to the advice he was giving you? How is he going to feel when he finds out you didn't trust him with the truth?

This bit by 1stWife (yet another of the wiser people here) is telling:

Can you rebound from this? Only you know what you can tolerate. But her crying and sobbing is her despair. But you need to see her remorse. You need to see her willingness to she changes in her life.

You should not help her. You should not tell her what to do. She’s on her own here.

I had this great long speech to say...and as I started to type it out...I realized it simply doesn't matter. You have chosen the course of your life...we're only here to support you and lend you advice and wisdom. You already have ALL the heavy hitters here, people who are far wiser than I...I personally think you've chosen the right path for you...just stay the course. You can always choose to R AFTER the D...but only if your STBXW does the heavy lifting she needs to do in order to EARN the gift of R. I doubt she can do it...but who knows. G-d works in mysterious ways that we mortals canna ken.

I strongly agree with others that sitting down for a talk with her now is a bad idea. If she is actually remorseful, she will be patient.

Move forward with what you want to do first. Let her show you with ACTIONS that she can stop being selfish and give you what you ask for. So far, she couldn't without your mom telling her to back off.

If you reach a point of wanting to hear her word salad of cliches and excuses, you can set up a time to talk. But she is really good at manipulating you so I don't see how a long talk with her can help you, only give her a way to continue her sobbing and blame shifting, as others have explained.

If you want this to be as amiable as possible, you will need to speak with her.Be honest.You hold all the cards.

Just signing in to wish you all the best going forward AHGuy.

You've received much excellent advice on here. You do what you feel you need to do.

Strength!

after thinking about it and reading Mehealed,’s post I now believe she wanted to end things with The POS, chamomile and Thumos confirmed that the closure seeking wasn’t an unusual behavior from WS.

With all due respect to those posters... they are not you. They were not and are not married to this woman. They are using generalized experiences and information to offer their opinions on what she MIGHT have really been planning to do.

All this help can be good. But what does your gut tell you now about the things she is saying and doing to prove her so-called remorse? You must stick with your gut AH. It hasn't let you down so far has it?

I don't buy her pleas that her love for this guy was all a fantasy. I think it was real, very real... real enough for her to sneak around like an alley cat for two years behind your back and destroy everything you and her have worked for. No, the fantasy was all on the OM's side. He never loved her, but you can bet she loved him, and now she sees what an idiot she was and she is in full panic mode. She is going to tell you everything she thinks you want to hear to keep you from leaving her and to keep from losing her financial and familial security.

Tough consequences are what she needs right now. The familial and public pillorying is exactly what she needs to cut her down to size. Love her enough to let her learn her lesson, so that she won't make these same poor decisions in the future.