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AH

The immediate start of her little presentation with the phone call was a sure sign she doesn’t get it. She was banging this other guy every chance she got and she thinks giving you a story about the phone call is the main issue that she leads with.

I don’t think she’s reading here because with as many times as the polygraph has been mentioned if she was reading here and had any comprehension skills she would have had a polygraph lined up.

If you choose to even consider playing this out for any length of time, how on earth do you ascertain what you are even dealing with until you are convinced you know the entire truth .

And there are only two ways to find out any more than what OBS told you

(1) trust your wife’s words

(2) polygraph

Back to the phone call, I have a real hard time believing that while she was lying to you and still talking to OM that she did not also see him in person. Wouldn’t you want to know that????

Then there’s the years of girls night out ( with who) and are these people in her social circle, including the wonderful friend who was patting you on the back and egging her on. So again, the only way you will know if this was or was not her first rodeo is a polygraph.

The blocking him thing means nothing. She supposedly blocked him the first time and he used burner phones to call her, she answered and talked to him multiple times and only told you because you pissed her off challenging his desire for her. And by the way, if this OM is as big a shot as you say, her threat will mean nothing to him. He will come fishing again as he has successfully done time after time before according to her.

You still need to stay in touch with OBS. Her situation with OM can have some impact on what your wife does or he does that can effect you.

AH, what mty wife did compared to what yours did is nursery school and what she did post D Day was also the oppposite of what your wife has done.

At one year out I am still pissed off and she has been the model wife. Now she wants a year of commitment from you to try??? If you can put what she did behind you in one year you should be nominated to the SI Hall of Fame. You have a long difficult road ahead if you choose R.

Do what you need to do but for heavens sake make sure you know the truth on everything.

[This message edited by BeyondRage at 8:48 PM, August 17th (Monday)]

She is doing a good job actually. Ask her for a written timeline and include anything with the GNO's. This is the first step.

No ones words but his.

I insisted That a D is the only solution and if we can do it amicably without hurting each other would be for the best.

A polygraph should be mandatory IF you are considering reconcilliation. By YOUR words, you will divorce. Why would you continue to dig for more dirt if the current hole could bury a bus?. The infliction of any further (self) damage makes no sense. Who needs that garbage. Ask the questions if you must, but I fail to see the need to strap her down.

If YOUR choice is to live a life free of doubt, then keep it amicable, get what you need and walk away.

Edit. If you need that house for your business, do what you have to do to keep it. Life keeps going until you die. She had her "second" life. It is time for you to start your second life with the best chance of success.

[This message edited by 66charger at 10:01 PM, August 17th (Monday)]

By "his own words" he expressed the "need to know", so if he indeed needs to know just to know about a significant part of his life, he certainly has the right to do so, and certainly, he's NOT alone, not uncommon at all, some people just need to know, others simply don't.

A polygraph!! wow do you think it's necessary?

The other part of his words, also known as a question.

Ask the questions if you must, but I fail to see the need to strap her down

.

No I dont think a polygraph is necessary IF YOU ARE GOING TO DIVORCE. I fail to see how that is not clear English.

And I dont see how a polygraph will get him what he really needs for a better tomorrow. (His business and the house.) A wise man once said "Dont do stupid stuff". Fighting a battle when the war is over may not be the smart thing to do.

But hey. What do I know. For me if you f**ked him once or f**ked him and his buddies a thousand times, it matters not. It all looks the same in a rear view mirror.

Edited for vulgarity.

[This message edited by 66charger at 11:43 PM, August 17th (Monday)]

Thumos, I did visualize the worst case scenario after Divorce many times, and fortunately for me it wouldn't be as dramatic as yours

Mine won't be that bad either - what I was saying was that I took that visualization exercise to the extreme as a stress test for my emotional reaction. When I still felt relief in my inner being, even with the worst case scenario (which won't happen) I knew divorce was the right call for me.

Polygraph is to understand whether she is speaking the truth. Mainly to help you if you see yourself trying to reconcile with her. It may even give you an idea if she will be honest and fair during the divorce process. But if you definitely plan to divorce then in my opinion there is not need for poly. Best thing to do is move quick because dragging this out will cause pain for you and your children.

A polygraph is part of a one-two punch that is almost universally recommended for situations like this.

Part 1 is writing down a DETAILED, WRITTEN narrative timeline. That's very important. We're talking dates, conversations, events in a detailed fashion. "I don't know" "I don't remember" "i've already told you everything" do not cut it. Writing it down -- meaning many pages of written material she devotes some real time and effort to -- accomplishes two things: It makes her really confront in her own writing the ugliness of her actions. And it commits a precise version of events to paper, to a document, which ends the "which lie did I tell?" gamesmanship.

Part 2 is a polygraph where you measure the truthfulness of the written timeline by stress testing it under a polygraph with key questions. This also does two things: It tells you whether she's been truthful with her timeline. And It puts her under a significant amount of psychic pressure to come clean and withhold nothing. That's the infamous "parking lot confession."

It sounds cruel. It is not. It is effective. And necessary for anyone who wants to fill in the black hole of their lives an affair leaves. This is a two-year hole in your life at a minimum, with perhaps more. You need to know as you've said. So demand answers. She spent more than 700 days betraying you. She can at least spend a few days sitting down at a table with a pen and a paper and start writing.

Now all that said, if you're going to D her, you may not need these things. But you might as well ask for them while you are getting your ducks in a row with an attorney.

Then you will REALLY know what you're dealing with. It's unlikely you will ever get the full truth about all of her behaviors and choices the past several years. But you for damn sure can get more of the truth than you have now, and you deserve it. My prediction is that there's much more she's not told you -- and once that comes out it will seal the deal with you for divorce and strengthen your resolve.

[This message edited by Thumos at 12:02 AM, August 18th (Tuesday)]

I'm glad that most of you think I was right to be offended by the heater incident. I was afraid that I was exaggerating by thinking this was the worst of all of it.

Actually AH, it's one of the most vile and toxic things I've read about a wayward spouse doing to a betrayed spouse. It really takes the cake, so to speak. It's difficult to exaggerate it.

My WW had sex with her AP in our home, and I consider that pretty damn vile. But conning you into being the maintenance man for her f*ckpad with another man is so beyond the pale, I can't really even comprehend it.

Ahguy,just for clarification, NO ONE is saying you need the answers to your questions in order to D, but you have expressed the need to know those answers for YOU, it's YOUR life, and that should be ENOUGH, again, you're certainly NOT alone by a very long shot, therefore in order for you to know as much as possible about the last 5-6 years of your life, a polygraph is a valuable tool at your disposal that has stood the test of time.

Yes poligraphs are suggested a lot, especially in order to R (which you're not considering at this time), but they have the exact same accuracy for those who want to know the most for other personal reasons, you never know she could have had a ONS with your dentist, another client, your financial advisor, insurance agent, etc., if that was the case I'm not sure you would still want to be doing business with any of those people, or maybe POSOM is the only one (which based on what you posted it's very possible there are others).

Polygraphs are not that expensive and those few hundred bucks could prove worthy even if just to reassure her claims that she's now telling "the truth".

I think it’s a good thing that your WW is reading books and is turning her thinking around and is taking responsibility. Is she remorseful? I do not know, Trust yourself, you were there, we weren’t.

One thing is for sure, you’re in the driving seat. You have all the cards.

I suggest you tell her this the next time you communicate with her:

“WW, the biggest problem with Infidelity is trust. Whether I chose to D or not, you owe me the truth. Everything. Even if you know that the truth will result in D, you have to tell me the truth. This is your cross to bear.

What you want the most right now is to save your marriage. What you should want is not to save your marriage, but to heal the ones you hurt, your husband, your family, even if if means D.

The truth will be painful to hear, but I need it to move forward.

I need you to write a timeline of all the infidelity acts you have done since we got married. Everything. In details. No lying by omission. Even if it hurts me. Even if I will D you. Because you can’t control the outcome. But you can start to redeem yourself by being selfless”.

Then the timeline can be verified with a poly. You should really..

Even if you want to proceed with D. She owes you the truth.

I'm going to add one more thing that will probably make someone again say I am an "advocate of the cheaters". It won't bother me. I'm just an old soldier who believes that everyone is guilty of something and deserves a second chance if they REALLY want one and they EARN that chance. The question appears to be "has she changed and does she really want a chance to hold her marriage together". Do some people really change? Yes, some really do.

Here is a story I may have told before. Most of my military career was spent in Special Forces. I once knew a sergeant on an A-Team that was one hellacious fighting man. If there was a fight to be had somewhere in the world, you could bet he was ready to go. He was a soldier for the god of war. His favorite saying was, "I'm going to stay in the army as long as they keep making guns and killing people". The kind of person you would see as never changing and probably end up dying young. You know where he ended up? He fell head over heels in love with a widow with kids. She turned him ever way but loose. She was a church going all around good woman and she changed him 100%. The last I heard of him was many years ago. He had retired from the army, was a church going solid married... and happy. If this man could change there's hope for a lot of people. I knew a hard combat officer who became an army chaplain. Really, what do you have to loose making one last try. The people who should quit are those that have no hope at all. I understand about manly pride. Several of my men were wounded in a firefight, once, because my pride wouldn't let me back away from a fight I couldn't win because I was outnumbered. I was lucky that day because no one was killed. Pride got me wounded once because I refused to leave a my team when everyone was encouraging me to. Pride won't keep you company when you are alone. Pride won't hug you when you really need a hug. Pride will not share a bed and keep you warm at night.

But in the end I'm also someone who believes people should do what is best for themselves and those they love. Besides, they are the ones that have to live with their decisions. I read a book years ago that had a quote I have never forgotten and use ever so often. "Everyone gets to chose their own road to hell." Chose well.

I do wish you well.

[This message edited by anoldlion at 12:58 AM, August 18th (Tuesday)]

AHG,

Regarding the pastor:

she did mentioned him today and how he is willing to help. BTW he is a certified marriage counselor according to her.

Errm, and the point if this is...? You do not have a M at the moment, so it really does not matter even if Mother Teresa counsels you guys. There is no need for any MC at the moment, just IC.

At the moment, your WW is throwing in more ingredients into the pot, and trying to change your soup into something SHE wants, not what YOU want. It looks like she is trying to make a stew out of a minestrone.

Hold you course, as it will keep you focused, and a clear and focused mind will lead you out of trouble.

If your WW truly is remorseful, she would be more in tune of what YOU need, not what she wants.

I feel for you, brother.

My question is....what changed from the point of her wanting a divorce to now with her wanting to do anything to keep the marriage?

The only thing I see as an answer is, she knows OM won't marry her? I mean...is it that simple? If so, this is the most obvious case of trying to keep plan B that I've ever seen.

I am one who considers that BS should do whats best for them. What ever they need to get out of Infidelity. Some times its R, others its D. What ever is best for them.

With regards to your wife. Having been on this site for a while, her actions thus far, are light years better then a lot of others that have been on here. There may have been an initial resistance,but she is trying. Although, your the one there and would be able to ascertain her sincerity.

But D is what you feel will bring you happiness, and that is your choice. It is the choice you feel will be what you can be happy with.

There are other options if you want to consider keeping your family together. Perhaps divorce, and still live together is one option.

"New betrayed husband" is one of the best threads I read here on SI. Wow. So much knowledge, experience and insights shared.

So sorry for you AHguy, it's such a brutal erosion of identity and massive trauma for sure.

Wishing you strength for today and hope for tomorrow.

Greeting AHG,

I hope you are in a good place mentally with what is going on after your talk.

It was good thing to talk and it had to be undertaken.

It is a shame she won’t agree to your request for a amicable D.

You did do well in stating both she deserved better as did you. Not making it about one party, being better for both.

She must have had help in her offer re the business, family home etc. Do you think it was the church pastor?

Most likely will get a bit of a bumpy road as she wanting to remain in the big home, putting the business under stress having to pay for the housing of parts and vehicles etc.

Strength and sorry for any offence caused.

One day at a time and respect ✊.

Buffer

AH

Even if her offer were legally enforceable, and you were interested in it (you don’t seems to be the kind of guy that will throw your children mother on the street and take the 100% assets, nor planning on doing it) after a year of trying to R if in the end you cannot, you will be bad guy! The one that even the after the gigantic effort you WW put on R, you walked away… Also the expectation that it may create on your children that currently are angry at your WW but it will pass. And, of course, if you are trying to R with your WW, how can you children remain mad at her! ? Additionally, if you are able to forgive her, or looking like it by trying to R, what she has done is not that bad, right?

It is my impression that she is just thinking about herself. All seems to be about what she wants!! The problem with it is that she is not trying to R because she is in love with you! She is trying to R to avoid further consequences for her actions. R is part of her retention.

It is also my impression that she carries a lot of resentment against you, it may be for real causes but I am pretty sure most of it is out of how she rewrote your marriage in her head and spread to others... It means that she may love you, but she is not in love with you! That is why she is not focused on the hurt she caused to you, she does not even understand it!

I think she even didn’t divorce you, or asked for a D, before the A started to save face! I am sorry but I think you WW is trying to use you to save face in front of everybody,

Why don’t you offer her a deal. Tell her that it is necessary to euthanize the current marriage because it is death!!! Explain to her that 2 years are just too much (don’t elaborate on it as she seems to challenge all your explanations, it is what it is!). But you are willing to give her the chance to explain her self and pursuit your forgiveness until the D is final. And maybe, down the road you can be a couple again (only if you feels like). If she is in love with you, and if she cares about you and your business, she will accept it! As it will mean that she really is into R for you, not for saving face. If she is adamant about ot getting D, well she is telling you were her priorities are!

Use this chance to ask all you want to know! You need to know what you are supposed to forgive, right?

BTW Does she care about you? I mean, can you tell?

Does she asked you how are you doing? If you are eating well? If she has educated her self, has she ever asked you if there is a trigger? Has she done a time line the time line is a must to do, and is not to be done only under BS demand, but to be prepared. Have she severed contact with enablers? Changing jobs is not the same as NC. Have she put the record straight about you to others? Bet not. You questioned her about OM affairs, it triggered a call to OM, but I believe she hasn’t addressed your request. Has she ever expresses contempt to OM? I am sorry but 2 years is a long time, she still hold feeling for OM even what she has said, like you still hold feeling for her even after what she has done! Love is not llike a switch you can turn off, or on. Why don’t you aske her? Ask her as well if she is un love with you??

In regard of the house, well sometimes we don’t get what we want! You wanted a faithful and respectful wife; but she isn’t. fight for your house if needed!!

AH

What is the necessity for her to quit her current job?. Forbhow long has she being working there?

OM doesnt work there and his properties can be manager by other employee!!

I think there is much more that you dont know

[This message edited by Mrhealed at 4:44 AM, August 18th (Tuesday)]

The majority of BS's that demanded timelines, found the first few iterations to be full of holes and dishonesty and trickle truth. There is a period, sometimes months or more, of getting at what a real timeline is. Are you ready to fight that battle knowing you are going to D.

Almost all people deserve a chance at redemption. She may be sincere. We can't know that one way or the other. For many sincere former cheaters, the chance to redeem themselves comes when they move on to the next phase in life.......with someone else. Your decision as to how to get yourself out of infidelity lies, pain, trauma is yours to make.

If you find yourself looking for a way to commit to an attempt at rebuilding with her, I still think D is the best first step in that direction. I can tell you from experience that being in a rebuilding mode, legally freed from the stench of the dead M, is immeasurably helpful. Knowing that you do not face the D process frees you to take risks at being vulnerable that you may not take, when shackled by the all that the dead M represents.

When you are in a burning building you have to get out and you cant take all your valuables as much as you would like to

You have to get out if this marriage ( prob) and quickly pick whats more valuable

Either you can work on protecting your finances or you can work on finding out even more of the ugly truth about her infidelity .

Your wife is a habitual liar, noone who can cover a 2 yr affair can possibly be otherwise . Clearly she isnt the type of person who comes clean for nothing . She only seems motivated by self interest , if you can show her there is something in it for her you might get something otherwise your need to know will be outdone by her need for you to not know

Whats her incentive to tell you anything if you are both headed for D ? Are you going to a link a poly requirement to the dollars and cents in your amicable divorce . Frankly you dont have the nastiness to do whats required to get a poly out of her if i were you id let it go you , already know enough

[This message edited by siracha at 7:12 AM, August 18th (Tuesday)]