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AH

Can I just file and serve her without deciding how we would spilt?

DO NOT ask us. Ask an attorney in your jurisdiction what you can do or not do.

The reasons people are telling you to file other than her canned responses are bull shit is that

(1) you can stop the D IF and only if she proves to YOUR satisfaction she is doing what she commits to

(2) it puts YOU in total control of what happens in that there are no more prepared letters but actions on HER part necessary.

And STOP worrying about her being driven crazy.

This supposed threat to OM she made. Ask her if she has seen him to say that ?

If you file for D you will still have plenty of time to decide whether to R - but her reaction to it and how she handles it will tell you everything.

I knew that you wouldn’t be satisfied with my response, there isn’t a thing I could have written that would explain to you how I feel.

This has always been code for: "How DARE you not accept my crumbs based on my terms and conditions! Nothing I do is ever good enough for you so why should I bother doing anything difficult and uncomfortable anyways!" And it's always wrapped up neatly in the packaging of despair with a shiny bow of resentment to make you question yourself and if you might be a big meanie for expecting them to do the work of R. Don't fall for it!

My question for those who know about D process, many of you said I could file and see what happens, but shouldn’t I agree on assets distribution and living arrangements before?

You don't have to and I question how productive having this talk with your WW would be. It will be full of manipulation which will likely turn to anger when she realizes you will not be convinced to rugsweep with her and pretend it's R. If you think there is a chance that your WW will be fair with you in a D even out of guilt, you can schedule a mediation with lawyers present after the paperwork is filed and she is served. You can serve her yourself if you want to and think she will be reasonable about it.

Can I just file and serve her without deciding how we would spilt?

Yes, absolutely. Most people do not decide on the split before filing with their WS mainly because their WS does not want to hear it and refuses to participate much like how yours is acting right now. You will have plenty of time to negotiate who gets what during the D proceedings.

OP never wanted those things

Well I guess it is all good then?

For example, if AHguy never wanted his cheating wife to send naked pictures to him, but she did for her extra-marital boyfriend, it's cool because that wasn't something AHguy wanted?

WW is not refusing to do those things for her BH now

AHguy gets seconds on his own wife! Excellent.

many of you said I could file and see what happens, but shouldn’t I agree on assets distribution and living arrangements before?

Honestly, you probably won't find her agreeable to much. She may feign being nice up front, thinking that you really aren't serious or not fully understanding what she is agreeing to.

But I GUARANTEE once she sees the wheels rolling and starts to understand what she is going to lose, she will get nasty. 100%.

Focus on getting yourself a good lawyer to protect you and your kids.

Hard 180. She's trying to do everything in her power to get you to sweep this under the rug. Cheater manipulation 101.

File. Full speed ahead on the D train.

[This message edited by squid at 9:33 AM, July 29th, 2020 (Wednesday)]

Speak to a lawyer and move forward with filing. How she handles it will tell you everything. If she is still acting out of selfishness, you will see this in her reaction and know that moving forward with the divorce is the right choice.

Yes, you can do this without negotiating with her. Make the terms that YOU want with your lawyers advice. If she will "do anything" she can give you the terms that you want. She can make things easiest for YOU.

SHE IS NOT OWED RECONCILIATION. She wants you to think she is, but she absolutely is not. She broke the marriage and essentially shot you in the chest while laughing and now she wants YOU to fix that. I don't think she could be more selfish. Reconciliation is your decision only. It is a dealbreaker for most people and even those couples that do reconcile, it takes a long long time. Do not let her begging get to you or make you feel rushed. She admitted she is trying to save face - which is not your concern.

She is still willing to put you thru more hurt that to stand up and face the shame of what she has done. I mean, if the marriage was so awful as she claims (which they ALL do) then why was cheating even on her list of possible solutions? That is on her, not you. I am betting she doesn't have an answer for that. I would like to see her face when she learns that she was not the only other woman for the POSOM. Hang in there and lean on your friends and family.

Honestly, you probably won't find her agreeable to much. She may feign being nice up front, thinking that you really aren't serious or not fully understanding what she is agreeing to.

But I GUARANTEE once she sees the wheels rolling and starts to understand what she is going to lose, she will get nasty. 100%.

Read the bolded portion and believe it and internalize it. Your wife is not who she is pretending to be now, she is who she was when she was stabbing you in the back.

GET A SHARK LAWYER! She is way ahead of you on the preparation for divorce front, believe it. (That doesn't mean she has a lawyer, but don't be surprised if she is prepared.)

Be prepared to come at her strong and with terms favorable to you. Time for her to be off balance, shocked, wondering what to do.

SHE IS NOT OWED RECONCILIATION.

Remember this: She owed you loyalty, fidelity, love, respect, and sexual exclusivity.

She broke all of those covenants.

You don't owe her anything anymore.

If you decide to divorce, get all you can under the law. Let a judge decide what she is owed, don't let her manipulate you any longer.

Laws are very different in each state.

Do whatever your lawyer tells you to do!!!

Good luck & stay strong

She wants you admit your role in the breakdown of the marriage. That's just peachy.

What that boils down to is, "You didn't love me the way I wanted you to." She expected endless romance on her terms. When she got tired of waiting for you read her mind, she went out and found another source.

The response to that is, "This is who I am. You wanted me to love you on your terms, but you refused to love on mine."

AH, yes I saw the same thing as you, the speech and the letter is the same.

So if you are going the D, just talk to your lawyer and proceed. Talk to a second lawyer. You may still be able to negociate the D.

If you think about R even after starting the D process, then you plainly say your requirements for R. Those requirements are non-negociable. You will not discuss or argue. Those will be your conditions. And your conditions will be pretty much what BeyondRage said.

“WW those are my requirements for me to consider R (with no promises):

1....

2....

Etc”.

Then walk away. Because there’s nothing to discuss.

AH, overall, I liked her response. It seemed fairly honest and I sense her being contrite.

But the question is do you feel like you want to R?

Were it me, for now I'd let things sit. See if her actions support her words. See if you feel you can see a life with her in 3, 5, 10 years from now.

Time is your ally. Use it. Continue to let your emotions settle out as well. And, as time rolls along, you just can't see the forgiveness and desire to be with her (which is perfectly fine), then end it. But don't be too hasty and see if there is some grace you can provide her with.

go back to the marriage we had before her Affair.

Who in the hell would want that? This is the marriage that she cheated on. I wouldn't want that if I were you. Look I think the letter was crap. I think she still blames you. I also think there is some ray of hope in there if she will stop with the magic Jesus talk and blaming you. It is probably too much to expect perfection from here right now but if you think there is a chance you might try to Reconcile then you should engage and shut down the BS from her right now.

If the marriage was so awful why does she desperately want to save it?

And if you were such a bad husband why does she go on and on about what a quality man you are?

Answer: she’s desperate to keep the marriage alive to save face. She says that is her priority in her letter to you. She says it point blank.

Answer: you are a quality man. She knew that before the affair and she knew that during the affair and she knows it now.

You need to know it too AH. Know your self worth. It’s pretty obvious from reading your posts that you are a quality solid man of faith and strong character. I wish I knew you in daily life in person.

You know your own situation. But I don’t buy the absolutist statements your WW made in her letter about the marriage. They don’t have the ring of truth about them. She is making categorical judgements that seem to be coming from the viewpoint of a very self involved person, which makes sense because that is who she is.

I could be wrong but I doubt it.

Marriages are more complicated than her simplistic notions. And the vast majority of marriages are good marriages, not bad ones. Most the time a good marriage that could have been great has been turned into a bad marriage by an adulterer.

Read the quote in my tag line. It should tell you most of what you need to know about your wife.

[This message edited by Thumos at 10:17 AM, July 29th (Wednesday)]

AH, I have to agree with many of the others (and what you also figured out) that your WW's letter was garbage, blameshifting and all the evidence you need that she is NOT ready for attempting R. If saving the M was her focus, she would be putting your needs first and her letter could have been quite simple. there was way too much stuff about herself in that letter, justifying the A, blaming you. No good.

So what do you do now? You said you spoke to an attorney, I would suggest you try a few and see who you think will best represent you. Before you choose, I suggest you figure out what YOU want. If you truly want to D, what is your goal? Do you want it settled quickly? Do you want to protect yourself and your assets? Do you think your WW would be willing to negotiate with you to be more favorable to you or do you think she will turn nasty? Most of these are things a good attorney will ask you.

As I've said before, start the 180. You need to distance yourself to think. Tell your WW you need to think before you make a decision. If she is serious about how much she cares about you, she should respect that and give you space.

5- I’m willing to give you access to my phone, computer, tablet, emails and everything you might want.

6- I’m letting know where I’m everytime I leave our house and willing to let you GPS my car if you want to.

AHGuy

Do you really want to be her warden? That’s a stressful full time job. If you catch her doing something then you’re right back where you are now.

All she has to do is buy a burner phone, park her car and have the OM pick her up. A VAR in her car would be good but it's still work for you.

Instead of doing all that work you can increase her motivation to police herself. If you’re divorced she will know that you can simply walk.

Let’s say you catch her doing something less than having sex with another man. If your divorced your decision will be is it worth staying with her. If you’re still married your decision will be if it’s worth going through the divorce process.

I want to prove to you that I’m sincere about rebuilding our marriage, There is a way out of this If we do it together

AHGuy

Then she should be willing to divorce you and work to regain your trust.

Maybe if she really does feel some actual guilt, she'll give you what you want. You'll find out very quickly how genuine her remorse is once you start this process.

ChamomileTea

Your wife is convinced that she can use her "femininity" to convince you not to divorce her. By offering the possibility of R after the divorce you soften the blow and decrease the likelihood of her reacting with hostility to your rejection.

Your rejection of her offer wouldn't be total because she will have a chance to work on you in the future. There will more reason for her to behave herself and offer you good terms.

You're never going to get better divorce terms than you will now.

[This message edited by Michigan at 2:32 PM, July 29th (Wednesday)]

All I want is a chance to let you have my femininity for you only.

I already picked up on this but you really have to pay attention to her word choices and phrasing because these are significant tells. I just noticed this:

“All I want” - it’s about her. It’s always about her and her wants and her needs and her desires. Aside from that her positioning of saying “all I want” - the subtext here is you’re being unreasonable here. Get it?

“Is a chance” - again, you’re being unreasonable. She just wants a chance. Why are you being so difficult AH?

“To let you have” - entitlement. She will “let” you have the goodies. It’s a special gift she will deign to allow you access to, you poor peasant who isn’t a millionaire.

“My femininity” - Mine, me. Also framing this as a special gift. it’s not special anymore. She ripped the specialness to shreds. There are many women in the world, very fine women who would never do this to you. My WW was my one and only too.

She threw that away.

“For you only” — way, way, way too late for that. Far too late. How could she possibly think this flies. It crashes and burns. It’s just words on paper. Hollow and meaningless. It will never be for you only. She already ruined that and that’s the reality

If you take some time to really understand the subtext behind what she is saying, very little of it is good news and most of it is bad news.

[This message edited by Thumos at 10:34 AM, July 29th (Wednesday)]

AH

I think ChamomileTea said it first and I will second it. That letter was not the worst apology nonapology I have ever seen. It is decent start. Ya she is hanging by a thread with, you were the root cause, but that is human nature to justify our actions.

Remember she does not have a group of people like SI is to you, she doesn't have anyone to call out her BS. She needs IC that specializes in infidelity to pull out her WW thinking. I bet apologies were never her strong suit.

I drifted away from Jesus Christ and decided to steer my way on my own and failed miserably

So true and was a big part of your original post

I lied to you to my kids to everyone even to myself, and I hurt all of us. You described it the best when you said that I shot you with a revolver in a chest while enjoying it. Although I think what I was doing is I was having too much fun aiming at paper target thinking I wouldn’t hurt anyone just to realize that you were standing right behind my paper target, my fun bullets went through the papers into your chest.

She IS opening her eyes to the truth. Many never even get this far. She should have just shut up after this comment it is a shame she didn't.

I know that I was selfish for thinking I could keep both lives going parallel, I was stupid for falling for it, I realize now That I was wrong about you, and that I took you for granted and didn’t appreciate you. I really suggest you open your heart to “Pastor” he is a wise man; he opened my eyes to understand your ways of expressing love, I was really blind and unappreciative to you Andy. I acted like an addicted and entitled teenager and to be honest

Again, she is starting to get it. She should have shut up and not put anything back on you after this sentence. If you read the Wayward forum you will see so many WW describing exactly what she is. It almost always takes time for WW to get even this far along.

Things I did so far to make myself ready:

1- I ‘m giving my life back to my saver Jesus Christ.

2- I ended the affair.

3- I’m actively looking for not just a new job but a new carrier

4- I’m in counseling

5- I’m willing to give you access to my phone, computer, tablet, emails and everything you might want.

6- I’m letting know where I’m everytime I leave our house and willing to let you GPS my car if you want to. And

7- Most importantly, my to do sheet is available for you to add anything you think necessary.

I’m glad you’re opening up to me, reading your email was painful at times but at the end it’s giving me a glimpse of hope. Please know That I’m here for you should you need me, Again I know you don’t believe anything I say or write but I’m going to say it anyway, I LOVE YOU.

This is what most at SI aim for, why is no one giving her any credit? I am a bit surprised by the vitriol from so many here, some of whom have R on less. Remember she doesn't have SI to put her stupid thoughts in a mirror.

Remember she didn't have a coach to read her letter before she sent it. She needs a good coach for her to get out of the wayward thinking and her stupid justifications.

[This message edited by Organic2003 at 11:39 AM, July 29th (Wednesday)]

My question for those who know about D process, many of you said I could file and see what happens, but shouldn’t I agree on assets distribution and living arrangements before? Can I just file and serve her without deciding how we would spilt?

You can just file and have her served (have her served at work), do the negotiations after she's served, she may or may not even agree to the living arrangements and assets distribution you propose and probably hire her own D attorney, this will tell you a lot more about her true intentions and frame of mind, if she accepts your distribution of assets/living arrangements and lets you keep the business 100% then it's a good sign but just a start, otherwise if she wants to fight you and go for the jugular, well that would confirm that she still not willing to stick her neck out for you and make any type of substantial sacrifice to atone for her huge betrayal, remember watch her actions not her words, talk is cheap and she's a proven liar.

Before you have her served, put those VARs to use and in place NOW, you need to know what she's saying to others when she's not in front of you, this is crucial information that will help you determine if she eventually shows true remorse and to make sure she's still not in contact with POSOM and her office partner/cheerleader and if you should stop/delay the D process should you eventually change your mind and after verification and lots of work/sacrifice from her and decide to give her the gift of R.

[This message edited by Buster123 at 10:48 AM, July 29th (Wednesday)]

AHGUY, from her text to you;

There is a way out of this If we do it together