SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

She needs a good coach for her to get out of the wayward thinking and her stupid justifications.

Does she need a coach to tell her how a mother should behave in front of her children? Because she wrote that she was educating herself on that, implying she didn’t know how. Really? She didn’t know? Really?

After you have her served and she comes to you trying to convince you to stop it, tell her that she killed the M with her LTA and it has to officially end, also give her some hope and tell her that depending on her actions during and after the D process you will re-evaluate and decide to give R a shot or not, tell her your time frame to make that decision could take up to 2 years (the length of her A), a that time and after the ink is dry you may decide to just remain D and move on, R without getting married again, re-marry her or establish a FWB relationship if she agrees to it.

AH

First, I think you are doing so well, months ahead of most. Please take care of your health, you work in some dangerous situations. (My brother the HVAC owner just got seriously hurt.) You are tired and traumatized so be extra careful. As a business owner myself any employee going through cheating was always put on light duty for six months. Put yourself on light duty and do not work alone. Go on the Florida trip during your peak season, you have good people working for you they will take up that slack.

AH

If you decide to divorce, fight hard. Save your businesses, the families that work for you need you to fight for them.

If you decide to R get a prenup that saves your business if a D happened in the future. If you decide to R, fight hard. Get IC for both of you from infidelity specialists.

Hi AH. So sorry you’re here. You seem like you did the right thing in staying away from home yesterday after reading that non-apology letter from you wife. Good on you for taking care of yourself.

I just wanted to chime in about filing for divorce prior to sorting out asset division. In my case, all that discussion took place after I filed and lawyers were involved. I think it’s a good way to handle it so that my ex didn’t railroad me into a bad deal. We never went to court and there was minimal animosity (insofar as that’s possible with a narcissistic POS like my ex — he was still a dick). I felt a lot of relief in filing, like I’d taken my life back to some degree.

Reading your thread, I can’t help but think your wife is treating you as plan B. She is probably worried her AP won’t leave his wife for her. If that’s the case and you divorce her for her affair, she comes out looking really foolish.

I’m horrified on your behalf at her blameshifting you and making you taking blame a contingency of her reconciling.

My question for those who know about D process, many of you said I could file and see what happens, but shouldn’t I agree on assets distribution and living arrangements before? Can I just file and serve her without deciding how we would spilt?

My understanding of the divorce process is limited, but I do think that's what all the back and forth is about... getting the settlement. IOW, you'd start by filing and offering a list of what you want, she and her attorney would counter, and so forth until agreement is reached.

If you're certain you want to file, you can either have her notified by being served or you can take her aside and let her know you plan to file. I think, for the sake of your business, that you should consider the latter. Schedule a meeting with her, keep it brief, let her know that you've opted for divorce and that you hope to keep it amicable. She'll try to talk you out of it, of course, but you just mention that divorce is a year-long process during which anything can happen. For right now though, you need your space and you need to be moving forward.

Having a WS served is a great way to burn off a little hostility, but it can invite a fighting stance, one that you're hoping to avoid. You basically just want your home and your business and who know?.. maybe if she really does feel some actual guilt, she'll give you what you want. You'll find out very quickly how genuine her remorse is once you start this process.

CamomileTea, I respect your perspective in most instances as I have found your posts to be level-headed and well thought out.

I have to however, disagree in the strongest terms with the advice for AH to take his wife aside and discuss divorce terms for the sake of his business.

Forewarned, as they say, is forearmed. When serving divorce papers, it is much more advantageous to have the spouse caught off-guard and thus off-balance. Initialize from a position of power and yield ground only when absolutely required.

Divorce is as a rule an adversarial, not collaborative process and the finest strategy is to treat one's spouse as an enemy, not to be trusted in the slightest and not to be warned of intent in advance.

[This message edited by DictumVeritas at 11:57 AM, July 29th (Wednesday)]

If we confess our sins (not blame shifting) He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. But if we don't He is under no obligation to do anything but send us to Hell. He is God and has the ability to forgive even though we don't deserve it. We are mortals through Him we can do all things through Christ witch strengthens us. He also said that Matthew 19:8 He said to them Moses because of the hardness of your hearts permitted you to divorce your wives but from the beginning it was not do. Hardness of the heart= the inability to heal the heart. She is not even putting out anything to allow your heart to heal.

I am a bit surprised by the vitriol from so many here, some of who have R on less.

And I am shocked by RAAC (Reconcile At All Costs) Warriors here who are still talking about reconciliation!!! The woman shows no sign of remorse for ANYTHING she has done related to shooting her “fun bullets”. She is only sorry that AH feels like she disrespected him by having him fix their love nest or POS telling her to shut AH off from “her femininity”

Looking back if she found the bed was not made and I asked AH to make it, would that Have been her disrespecting AH OR AH just FEELING it was disrespectful?????

I wonder if this is another example of the RAAC Warriors pushing for R because she is “a good Christian woman” that lost her way and is now going to give her life back to Jesus once again. Jesus can have her! AH doesn’t need or have to have her!!!

AH, she is only sorry that she got caught!

If POS’s wife didn’t discover it, what are the odds that your wife might go to bed with him today????

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AH,

don’t tell her you are filing.

Stay away from her as much as possible, but stay in touch with the kids and remind them that you love them and figure out a way to spend as much time with them, but tell the that any discussion about the cheater or your marriage is off the table!

Tell lawyer to file and have her served as quickly as possible. You will be shocked at how good you feel as soon as those words come out of your mouth!!!

Have lawyer do all the talking to her and her lawyer for you!

Hard 180!!!!!

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I know This hurts like hell, but NONE of this is your fault!!! NONE! ZIP!!! NADA!!!!!

Don’t fear the unknown in this situation. If you look up threads here that talk about fear of the unknown the response are almost unanimous that none of the fears became reality. If you also look up threads that ask about regret filing for divorce, again it is almost always a unanimous “no!” The only regret usually mentioned in such thread is not filing sooner.

Good luck

Stay strong

Do what you must to be able to look at yourself in the mirror!

[This message edited by Newlifeisgreat at 12:02 PM, July 29th (Wednesday)]

Even if there's a slim chance you'd decide on R, under the circumstances, it's still reasonable to decide to file for D immediately to get the clock ticking.

To keep things amicable inform her that in view of her long term 24/7 deceit, your trust in her is destroyed. Therefore, you're preparing for the worst by filing for D immediately to get the 12 mos clock ticking - and in the interim she has time to prove she's a safe partner.

She's more likely to be reasonable with respect to the division of property if she thinks there's a chance for R - so present her with the property split immediately when serving her.

After she signs (and your business is safe) you can make your final decision.

When serving divorce papers, it is much more advantageous to have the spouse caught off-guard and thus off-balance.

When I play that out in my imagination, the WW gets served, takes her case to an attorney, where she finds out that half of everything is hers, including the business. Her nose is out of joint because she's had no warning and she's feeling a whole lot less bad about her poor treatment of her BH. She's still wayward in her mindset, so her two years of cheating is still "a mistake" and in her mind, BH isn't giving her a chance.

Now, if we play it out the other way, she's in the inner sanctum, she knows what's going to happen, and with any luck, she's already given a verbal on the business and maybe even the house. A verbal won't hold her, because you're right... it's an adversarial process. But then again, she sounds like a prideful woman, and there remains the slim chance that it will, particularly if she thinks there's a possibility her BH might change his mind before the final decree.

Having your STBX served, particularly if it's an embarrassing situation like at work, can provide a small outlet for hostility, but it doesn't accomplish anything.

not to get into a big theological discussion, but an important point should be made from the perspective of AH's decision making process and because his wife keeps invoking Jesus' name.

I have no doubt the pastor she is talking to would try to misuse this passage: "He said to them, ‘Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so’”

The "hardness of the heart" phrase has often been misapplied toward the aggrieved and betrayed party in the marriage. in other words, people interpret it as "oh the betrayed spouse has a hardened heart so Jesus is allowing them to divorce, but he's doing it begrudgingly."

But what Jesus was actually talking about here in using the phrase "hardness of your hearts" was the general condition of brokenness of the world after the Fall, not exclusively or specifically the "hardness of the heart" of a betrayed husband or betrayed spouse.

He meant clearly that divorce is not only permissible in cases of infidelity but probably preferable -- grace extended to betrayed spouses when sin has torn asunder the marital union. This helps those who are victimized heal from the harmful effects of sin.

Jesus is saying that if there were no condition of fallenness ("hardness of hearts") then relationships would not face adultery, and there would be no need for divorce ('from the beginning, it was not so").

John Calvin (and I am not a Calvinist) put it accurately and succinctly when he said, "as the wickedness of men could not be restrained in any other way, He (God) applied what was the most admissible remedy."

That is to say, divorce in the cases of infidelity.

And by the way, from the perspective of a Christian, this is the case with most of human affairs. Imperfect remedies applied in a fallen world, but the best remedies available under the circumstances.

[This message edited by Thumos at 12:22 PM, July 29th (Wednesday)]

Having your STBX served, particularly if it's an embarrassing situation like at work, can provide a small outlet for hostility, but it doesn't accomplish anything.

Probably an attorney is best qualified to advise AH on the tactical details - which is why he needs to see one pronto.

When I play that out in my imagination, the WW gets served, takes her case to an attorney, where she finds out that half of everything is hers, including the business. Her nose is out of joint because she's had no warning and she's feeling a whole lot less bad about her poor treatment of her BH. She's still wayward in her mindset, so her two years of cheating is still "a mistake" and in her mind, BH isn't giving her a chance.

If that's the case then she's unsafe at any speed and he would be wise to be disentangled from her.

I always think of forgiveness as an act for you. You forgive her because you don't want to carry that bitterness and anger around in your heart. You can forgive and still Divorce.

Absolutely agree. Far too many people confuse forgiveness with reconciliation. They are two separate things.

I can not agree more than with Thumos, if D is the chosen route, consult with an attorney and act on legal advice, just do not discuss it with your wife beforehand. She does not need the unfair advantage of being forewarned.

I favor initiating D in any case because as so many wise people have already stated, it can always be halted in favor of R if so decided.

Another trap I think AH could fall into would be if is WW says "but I've repented!" and sees that as a get out of jail free card that forces AH to take her back. That's why she is trying to get him to see the pastor.

Important to remember that "repentance" in the original Koine Greek was "metanoia" -- and that means a "changing of the mind" It means a wholesale restructuring process of all of the bad thought patterns and bad behavioral patterns and life choices.

It's much more than saying "I'm sorry." or especially "I'm sorry you're offended' (which is basically what his WW wrote).

Just saying "I gave Jesus the wheel" is not repentance. Blameshifting and rationalizing is not repentance. Still willfully lying and eliding and deceiving is not repentance.

Regret is not repentance.

Remorse -- true transparent truthful no holds barred, radically honest REMORSE -- is getting close to repentance.

And AH is not getting that from his WW.

I can’t respond to every post at this moment, I’m using my phone which I hate, I haven’t been home since I left yesterday morning and it’s making my wife crazy, she is bombarding me with messages which I’m ignoring, to a point where she asked my son about me.

One of her messages this morning said: I knew that you wouldn’t be satisfied with my response, there isn’t a thing I could have written that would explain to you how I feel. I want to prove to you that I’m sincere about rebuilding our marriage, There is a way out of this If we do it together

AHGuy, first of all, thank you so much for posting the text of your wife's email back to you. Like so many others, I've got issues with so many points I found in there, and like many others, of course I am angry on your behalf!!

However, I'm not going to add to the pig pile ripping this apart. The most egregious thing I found was "the solution: put Jesus back in the Driver's Seat!" Yay! All fixed now. Other members such as BeyondRage and particularly Thumos have skewered her reasoning in great detail and I'm not going to add to that. I can't write it better than their excellent posts. So, mostly, this is me saying thanks. I rarely read a first person narrative of a cheater's mindset in recovery like what you have provided. In many ways, it is straight out of the Cheater's Handbook, the final "So You've Been Caught: What Next?" chapter and "Get The Blame Game Going" Epilogue.

There are, however, a few nuggets of truth running throughout the email, so I don't want to just leap on the Bash AHGuy's Wife wagon whole heartedly. I think some part of her is remorseful, it's just not her entire motivation, and she admits that in several places, especially the bit about saving face.

It's really not helping you heal one damned bit, but at least, hey, it's honest, right?

There's so much to unspool here and I am not in the reconciliation at all costs camp. As everyone seems to agree, she still feels she was responding to "her needs not being met" by you. You need to hammer that home, that's a bullshit excuse. And her plan to reconcile? Sigh.. like I said, it's been dealt with ad infinitum already by many great contributors.

So, I'll just close with: Did she address the business colleague that smiled and shook your hand, laughed and talked to you, and then encouraged your wife to sleep with a client? I bring this up because I haven't seen it. It's relatively minor but it IS important.

Just file and have her served at work, this woman betrayed you and lied to you for 2 years (and she's still lying) she doesn't even deserve a warning, again if she goes the hostile route then it would confirm she will never be a good candidate for R and make it crystal clear to you that you're making the right decision to D.

She's in real estate and a business woman who is familiar with property contracts and has been planning to D you for years, she already KNOWS she's entitled to half of everything you two own including your business, her statement of "thank God WE have more than enough" pretty much confirms it, plus she will certainly be told so by her own attorney, so make no mistake about it, this is no secret, just have her served at work and let the chips fall where they may, her reaction to the D will tell you everything you need to know.

Check with your attorney about writing up two separation agreements. One no fault she keeps her hands off your business and one adultery every one knows her business. You didn't do this why should you loose what you built because she broke her vows. She still seeing this as all about her. If you want to make a good show that you didn't just cut her off. Go to the pastor with one of your friends that have been though this to protect you so your side can be heard. Just a thought.