SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I would tell your daughter you love her, but she needs to respect your process.

And her sister? She basically encouraged you to compete for your own wife.

By all means let her have her say. Record it. Your daughter should not act as a referee. Thursday for an hour is good. You could even do it by phone.

AHGuy, I just wanted to tell you that I loved my WH deeply also, very much so. And my conclusions as to why my WH would do things that would hurt me so deeply and continue to hurt me is because plain and simple, he was broken. And he needed constant validation, no matter the cost.

My WH hurtful choices in life were never about me. His hurtful choices were based on his lacking, his emptiness, his low self esteem. And he made these hurtful choices to boost his self esteem and self confidence because he was too weak inside to face himself and do something about it.

What do you think is broken about your WW? Dig deep because something inside herself allowed this to happen. She too is broken. Very broken. Please understand this.

I think your story is striking a chord with many of us here on SI. We really can relate!

I think it depends on how you feel about it and what direction you're heading in. If you're certain you want a divorce, "no new contact = no new hurts". But if you want to hear what she has to say for herself, there's nothing wrong with that. I would, however, spend the first ten minutes telling her how fucking INAPPROPRIATE it is to use your daughter like a flying monkey and that if she's looking for a fast route to pissing you off and getting served, she's going the right way.

Here's the thing though, you need to be able to keep a cool head. It's best to have your VAR on, just in case your WW causes a scene. You don't have to agree to anything she says, nor should you. It's very early to make any kind of commitment. And you don't have to sit there past the point where you're comfortable. Remember that allowing for long, uncomfortable silences puts pressure on the WS to blather. Most of that is chaff, but who knows.. you might come away with a little wheat.

You're in charge, so you say where, when, and for how long.

ETA: Have you heard the term "flooding"? Take a peek at an online essay called The Four Horseman, based on the work of John Gottman. Be sure to follow the link to "antidotes". If you feel like you're "flooding" at any point, take at least 20 minutes and focus on something else. TV, magazine, an app game on your phone, anything. But move your mind to another subject and keep it there for 20 minutes.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 7:05 PM, July 21st (Tuesday)]

her sister noticed the changes suspected it and pressed her until she confessed. SIL gave my wife hard time pressed her to end A but she told me she didn't feel she was in place to tell me. she believes midlife crisis affected my wife. she was telling to be careful to look out for my wife she warned me that I'm loosing her she kept telling me to pay more attention to her to take her out on dates to dedicate more time for fun and less work. she was hinting but i just didn't get it.

she threatened her many time to either end her A or she would tell me but my wife was dragging her feet

OMG, you just opened a can of worms... not one reason in these comments gives an excuse to step outside the marriage and have an affair.

the more I hate her and the POS OM, but I realize that I still love that woman. It is hard to explain. everyone that knows me think I’m a rude tough man but just a face in reality I’m just a weak human being.

I understand this. Many here on SI do. You are not weak. You loved a woman deeply. You developed a love bias over the years, decades. Those feelings are hard to overcome. I know about it.

Much is often said about the WS not loving or loving the BS while cheating. So many WS were not going to leave their spouse or the marriage. Mine included. The premise that a WS loved their BS while in an LTA (my WW and yours) seems counter intuitive.

In the book "Cheating in a Nutshell" by Wayne and Tamara Mitchell say "When someone cheats on you, their love for your unique (and committed - my words - too forsake all others) is not there". "We take care of the things we love. That's proof cheaters don't love their partner. They didn't take care of them".

Your daughter is like so many betrayed spouses. Her world has fallen apart, and she wants to piece it back together.

If you feel you need to let your wife "explain" for your daughter's sake, that's your choice.

But there really isn't anything to explain. As long as she is explaining, don't let her generalize. Make her explain every sex act, disparaging remark, every humiliation.

The answer is she is or has become a hateful person capable of dismissing and intentionally hurting the one she has pledged her love and loyalty to.

***

As far as her sister, she loves your wife and cannot believe what and who she has become so she is reaching for some explanation.

AH, you simply don't understand.

It is not that easy my friend. I'm 44 but with 0 experience in the dating world

You are literally prime pickings for women from 28 to 50...you're a hard working man. You own a business that obviously gives you a good return on your investment. Women from 25 to 50 will crawl out of the wood work to get with a man like you. The younger ones will want to have your babies, the older ones will do whatever you want them to to gain access to your wealth. Literally you're in the prime of life.

You'll be fighting off the "babes" if you choose D. You have no idea the number of women who want a man just like you. I suggest for shits and giggles that you post an "anonymous" account on Date dot Com (or any other dating site) just to test the waters...be prepared to be innundated with req's for more info...

Having your daughter facilitate the conversation is NOT a good idea. Her presence at this discussion will either hinder the discussion as you or we might not want to say things in front of her, or will scar her.

Example of some of your questions

How long have you been f-cking him?

How many times each month did you f-ck him?

When he was inside of you, was he wearing a condom or was he bareback?

Did you ever have anal with him?

Did you blow him each time?

Where were all of the places you f-cked him?

Did he always come inside you?

Did he ever com in your mouth?

Did he ever come on your face? Your body? If so, where?

You get the idea

Can you ask these questions in front of your daughter?

Don’t sugarcoat your questions. They didn’t have coitus, they f-cked!!! He didn’t ejaculate, he came.

If you can ask these questions, what will be the impact on your daughter????

ALSO, This is going to be very emotional, so

1) write the questions you want to ask her down and bring them to the discussion

2) have a bottle of water with you

3) you have said that she can have an hour. Stick to it. Have an alarm set and when it goes off, the discussion ends, even f someone is in mid sentence

Good luck and stay strong!

[This message edited by Newlifeisgreat at 7:54 PM, July 21st (Tuesday)]

Redwing is absolutely 100% correct!

That’s exactly what happened to me. I’m

Actually older than you and I was easily dating

women in

20-30 years old range. There’s an inexhaustible

Supply of attractive willing and eager women

that would love to date a guy like you.

You are literally prime pickings for women from 28 to 50...you're a hard working man. You own a business that obviously gives you a good return on your investment. Women from 25 to 50 will crawl out of the wood work to get with a man like you. The younger ones will want to have your babies, the older ones will do whatever you want them to to gain access to your wealth.

Bad idea. You are in no frame of mind for OLD, you are still married, even if it is in name only. MAINTAIN YOUR INTEGRITY.

Let your WW crap all over your marriage vows, but you stay loyal to them and yourself and your own sense of honor.

IMO

Tell your daughter to stay in her lane. This is between you and you cheating wife.

You wide can sit and stew until YOU are ready to talk. She had her fun. It’s about YOU now.

Like I said before, sit her down but make sure your daughter is NOT present, at least not in the same room where the conversation is taking place (you don't want her interfering and/or taking sides). Make sure you RECORD it, make sure you write and make a list of all the questions you want answered and remember "I don't know" is typically deflecting so make sure you press her on the subjects, all questions are fare game, tell her you want 100% honesty regardless of how painful, tell her she will eventually be subject to a polygraph.

her sister noticed the changes suspected it and pressed her until she confessed. SIL gave my wife hard time pressed her to end A but she told me she didn't feel she was in place to tell me. she believes midlife crisis affected my wife. she was telling to be careful to look out for my wife she warned me that I'm loosing her she kept telling me to pay more attention to her to take her out on dates to dedicate more time for fun and less work. she was hinting but i just didn't get it.

she threatened her many time to either end her A or she would tell me but my wife was dragging her feet.

Okay, your SIL maybe meant well. Maybe. Still, she ultimately sided with her sister in that she respected your WW's privacy in the manner and didn't get involved. Hard lesson: her family will always support her, even in the wrong. Even your SIL's explanation is de facto gaslighting and blameshifting.. "If you don't do something, you will lose your wife" equates to "this is all your fault" on some level.

On the plus side two of the three of your kids seem to be in your court. I don't know if your daughter should get involved in this thing. I kept my kids out of it as best as I could manage. The process was painful enough, I didn't want to wreck my ex's relationship with her own kids by revealing what she had been up to. They are all older now and it's clear now they knew much of it as it was happening, but I made an effort. I think they appreciate that.

AH,

Has your wife contacted your daughter and started to work her lies on her? You said your wife had ordered a few books from Amazon. There is one that you need to order for yourself. It will open your eyes...

Leave A Cheater, Gain A Life

[This message edited by SlapNutsABingo at 9:52 PM, July 21st (Tuesday)]

AH

Your daughter or any of the family has absolutely no place in this discussion which I think you are totally unprepared to have in two days. I hope your intention is not to listen to a few hours of “I’m sorry and I won’t do it again”

You have the photos , you have the texts , so what questions do you have???

Here’s what you don’t know

(1) is she still talking to him?

(2) did she meet him after d day for “closure”

(3) who of her girlfriends knew. ? If her damm sister knew then the girls who were cover for her knew . Talk about humiliation if next time you go out socially you’re sitting across the table from women who knew she was fucking OM for two years

And are you going to believe what she tells you??

You are going to hear every conceivable load of bull shit known to man with tears galore.

And what’s your response going to be???

I hope you postpone this talk or whatever you are calling it until you know what you want out of it specifically

If she has broken NC or has seen him in person you stilll interested in talking ??? Make her answer your questions and then tell her she’s going to get those answers verified by a polygraph . And don’t tell her you’ll accept her apologies if she passes. Make no commitments

And I’m sorry the worst thing that can come out of your mouth right now is that you still love her and want to make this work.

Good luck

Good Morning AH

I hope you got a little sleep.

Need you take on this,

My daughter and I just had a long phone conversation. She wants to get in between her mom and I. she wants me to give her mom a chance to explain herself.so I promised to give her an hour this Thursday after my physical but I haven't confirmed yet.

It is so good that you have family and friends to lean on and are concerned about you.

Yes, you should talk to your wife but this is between you, your wife and God.

A mediator or facilitator with experience in surviving infidelity might be good but it should not be your daughter in the conversation. Your daughter is not experienced and should not be there expected to pick or mediate any side. She probably wants her old life back as fast as possible and will be prone to rug swipe. Do not set your daughter up to fail with bad advise she may unwittingly give.

A tornado has just ripped through everything you believed and thought you knew. This tornado has carried away, dumped and destroyed so much in its path. The rebuilding or walking away is a big undertaking not just a couple hour project like fixing a broken railing the kids can help with. Expert help will be needed to rebuild or walk away from it.

SIL gave my wife hard time pressed her to end A but she told me she didn't feel she was in place to tell me

This is so common and she was in a bad spot, but she was so wrong! She ends up allowing the continuation of your humiliation your wife was involved in. She could have done so many other things than hint you should be a better husband (what crap that is). She should have let you know your wife was a horrible person, cheating on you. She could have warned you of the oncoming tornado instead she got swept in with it, not understanding how dangerous it was.

she believes midlife crisis affected my wife. she was telling to be careful to look out for my wife she warned me that I'm loosing her she kept telling me to pay more attention to her to take her out on dates to dedicate more time for fun and less work. she was hinting but i just didn't get it.

Ok full stop! THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT in any way shape or form and why your wife did this goes way deeper than a midlife crisis. Do not allow ANY blame shifting, she owns 100% of this two year long betrayal with multiple 1000s of decisions to cheat.

Hell you were taking her to Jamaca - did she stop?

You took her to Florida - did she stop?

You fixed the furnace - did she stop?

You work hard, you own two houses, you love her - did she stop?

She has read the ten commandments - she still didn't stop or start this mess. So even God could not stop her selfish betrayal.

Do you know most women don't cheat, most women would love to be in your wife's shoes.

You met many mid life women in crisis, did you do more than fix their furnace?

I guarantee you that if you took her to Paris, France - she would not have stopped (Or Started).

One night my wife's best friend wanted to see how big my dick was, she offered to give me a BJ. I was honestly shocked and said no and told her I was MARRIED to her best friend WTF. My wife on the other hand did not say no to fucking the same women's boyfriend for years. Ya would I have enjoyed it sure, but I didn't do it. MY WIFE DID. She is now married to the POS and they conspired to clean me out of 1.3M, so be careful AH.

Sorry for the rant AH

Just trying to swing a 2X4 that I wish someone would have done for me as I humiliated myself with Pick me Dances, thinking I could fix things or have changed, done something different.

You should also read "How to help your spouse heal from Infidelity" It is a short wonderful book that you mention your wife ordered. It is available on Audio books too.

FYI I do believe in human brokenness and do believe in R, I do believe you can R but there is zero chance your wife is remorseful yet, she is probably still selfishly believing lies she had to tell herself. She is probable missing her AP and blaming you and anything else she can find. I hope she finds true remorse and can become the women God intended for her to be.

[This message edited by Organic2003 at 5:33 AM, July 22nd, 2020 (Wednesday)]

Do not let your wife control the relationship, contact or discussions.

An important element of recovering from being betrayed is for you to exert control over the relationship with your wife.

Each time you exert any sort of control you will feel just a little bit better (and it's a cumulative feeling).

1 - your wife is manipulating your daughter & you by getting her involved. This is the last time your daughter gets involved (your wife could have slipped a note under your door asking to meet).

2 - Inform your wife that she is to stop discussing her affair/emotional state with your kids (non negotiable)

3 - No meeting until your wife provides a detailed timeline (subject to a polygraph test). You need to know the full extent of the betrayal before you can give her a chance to 'explain' (i.e., minimize, blame shift to you or someone/something else).

The timeline includes what she was thinking when she was driving to and driving home after sex.

Inform her that the timeline/details may make R more difficult but further lies gaurantee a D.

4 - With respect to future meetings to 'talk'. Your wife talks for a living. That's her strong ground. Make her write up something up first so you can prepare and ask thoughtful questions.

5 - Always, take control of the time and place and the entire discussion for meetings. Especially, you decide when the meeting is over - get up and walk out.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 6:05 AM, July 22nd (Wednesday)]

Thanks for all the comments, let me clear one thing, My daughter doesn't want to mediate a conversation between us she just wanted me to listen to what she has to say. I already know what she will say in advance, she mentioned some of it last Sunday in front of her mom and sisters, her sister that knew A told me too. she will say That I neglected her for years didn't love her like before, I'm workaholic, I don't show any romance, that I find excuses not to be with her at home. I already know what she will say.

regarding the SIL that knew and didn't tell me. I do think she is a good woman who had good intentions. she apologized for not telling me but assured me she was on my wife's ass to end A. I asked her how she knew and for How long, first thing she said was I don't know how you didn't see it she was acting like her teen age daughter (SIL has a 16 year old daughter). she suspected it more than year ago but didn't know for sure till last January. she never knew who the OM was and didn't know the details of the A. Back story: their father left them for another woman when they were small kids and never cared for them. she was telling my wife that she is acting just like their dad.

I will listen to the advice here and ;

1- ask the hard questions ( you can trust me on this I will ask every single question I can think of)

2- Consult a Divorce Lawyer.

3 Carry a VAR with me at home.

For your SIL... most people don’t know what Infidelity is like, whereas every posters here do.

We read many stories here where a family member or a friend encourages affairs. Those people are toxic. It’s not the case with your SIL. She discouraged it but wasn’t confortable telling you directly.

It’s even not the first time we read a SIL giving hints on what’s going on to the unknowing BH.