SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So what happened at the meeting?

I hope this meeting wasn't a setup.

It went the way I expected it but it made me more confused and I hate that, I had some bad moment yesterday ended up going to a bar and drunk like a mad dog. I barely slept I’ve been awake since 4 am with a headache at my brother’s house. I listened to our conversation That I recorded.

It was exhausting and frustrating. She gave her “reasons” her regrets, a timeline of her Affair and what she hopes will be our plan to move forward. I stayed as calm as I could from the outside but burning like hell from the inside. It was painful seeing our life at a turning point. I was not feeling good after the meeting I went out later that day and got drunk and had to spend the night at my brothers.

We talked about a lot of things including the November heater incident which probably took more of our time than it should, it was brought up 3 time during the conversation, heck it was the very first thing we talked about.

I called her she was in her office So I picked her up in my truck, I had a VAR already set up before she showed up and I just drove around the beltway while she talked. Fuck, as soon as she sat next to me it triggered the memory of that day, the last time she sat there is when she made me take her to his mountain house to fix the heat. So I told her bluntly “ you remember the last time you were in this truck? you made me drive you 2 hours to a different state just to fuck him” she started apologizing and saying that it wasn’t meant to disrespect me and that it was just a stupid talk. She said that they were not planning to do anything that day, she and her colleague were supposed to be staging a house for sale in that town and the OM was supposed to meet us there then she would either ask me to drop her at that house or ride with her colleague., but since it only took me few minutes to fix it, it gave them extra time to spend in there. She said that they did not do it that day anyway. I call BS I said” are you telling me that he couldn’t find any one in the whole state of west Virginia to fix it so I had to drive 2 hours from a neighboring state?” she said that we took care of all his properties at that time and that she separated the A from real life and work was part of real life, the comments were just him being sarcastic. Anyway it wasn’t a good way to start a conversation. I told her that her explanation was BS and in order for me to continue to listen to what she had to say I demand 3 things: 1- NO BS no minimizing, there isn’t anything she can say that would make me feel any worse. 2- no Crying or pleading. 3- at anytime I can just end it. She agreed and said that she is only asking for one thing. To not interrupt her till she finishes then I can ask her or say anything, I promised I won’t interrupt but I had to couple time.

Her speech was long and well prepared like a sale pitch, I bet she practiced it all night. I won’t be able to write all down here but basically it is what we all thought it would, She started by apologizing for her A and for hurting me, she said she is not looking to give excuses but just to explain facts, she thinks our marriage was struggling before the A but I refused to see it. She said she thought about leaving me before even we met the OM, and at some point, she thought about life after divorce but she couldn’t do it because she still loved me and didn’t want to break her family. She reminded me of the multiple times she asked for couples counseling and I refused she begged for time for us but I ignored her. she felt that I didn’t care about putting any effort and I was content to live the way I’ve been, she gave up but she never wanted to leave me. Our life was mundane, our kisses weren’t real anymore just habit and sex was just a duty. She never wanted to leave me though because she loves me and values what we had accomplished. but she felt that I was looking for any excuse to not be with her like mowing the grass for the neighbors or cleaning the garage when it wasn’t needed. Then came the OM who gave her the attention I didn’t, told her the words I didn’t, he was willing to spend time with her to listen and talk to her. he was wishing her good morning and good night every day while I never did. He gave her flowers without any reason, I did not. She said the A is wrong and she wish she could take it back but somehow it kept our marriage alive. She feels bad that she lied to both of us and lived a double life. She said that the A was on and off and that every time the guilt got the best of her she would break up with him but kept surrendering to his pleading and misses his attention.

She said she was terrified when I found out and she is expecting to be served anytime, but the fact that I have not done it gave her hope to give our marriage a second chance, she pledged to do whatever it takes to save our marriage but she wants me to do my part too and at least start by couple counseling. She gave me a book to read saying it would help me regardless, she is reading another book about infidelity, Church pastor suggested both books. She already confessed to him.

Her mini timeline from when it started till it allegedly stopped , I say allegedly because he is still texting her asking about how she is doing, You don’t have to tell me I already told his wife:

She slept with him for the first time October 2018 after I went to a hunting trip in Canada with some friends, she was mad at me for going it was a misunderstanding on the timing I remember that but the trip was already planned I couldn’t cancel, I guess to retaliate she spent most of that week with him he took her on his boat and they had sex that week. The first time they kissed was summer 2018 after they sold a property, he invited her to celebrate and kissed her. As I suspected, it all started when he gave her the management business then made her the exclusive realtor for his investments in early 2018. She said at first it was all business for her while he was showing interest. They started texting each other he was complaining about his marriage and asking her for advice, she told him about her struggles at home with me and he encouraged her to leave me, they were texting all day long and she liked his attention. They started going out and slowly got close to each other emotionally, she knew it was wrong but couldn’t stop. After he kissed her she broke it off with him and told him he crossed a limit but that only took few weeks for them to go back at it even more.

They were very careful to keep it hidden, most of their dates were in a city that is about an hour away, and 90% of the sex happened in his mountain house. They never did it in our house or his. The only people that knew were her colleague who was encouraging her, one of his close friends and her sister.

How they got caught? Obviously, private investigator got the proof, but she believes that someone saw them last March in the city where they go out together and told his wife. His wife confronted him with a clear description of them and what they were wearing and the mall where they were walking holding hands. He bluffed her but she remained vigilant. After that confrontation they got scared and broke it off but only for about a month .

I told her that I’m still considering Divorce and if we go that route, I want it to be as an amicable as a divorce can be, she was silent with head down. I asked her if the table were turned, and I was the one cheating she admitted that she would have killed me. at least she was honest I give her that. I explained to her that I had always loved her and the kids and that yes, I’m not the type of guy who buys flowers just because it’s Thursday and I hate sending text messages, but I would give my life for my family. I told her. if god forbid, she was hit by bus and was handicapped for the rest of her life I wouldn’t hesitate a second to carry her and take care of her as long as I’m alive. I reminded her that I cook and clean the house not because I like doing it but because I love my family. I dropped her back at her office she left crying. I didn’t cry there but I was suffering. I still had to put it together and finish some work related stuff, then went to a bar with my brother and got waisted. I called the OM’s wife and told her that he texted my wife this morning asking her how she was doing then wishing her a nice day. They are separated at this moment but have started marriage counseling already, The POS is not remorseful and keeps blaming his wife, he told her he can’t trust her because she payed someone to spy on him. What an arrogant POS.

Today I saw that my wife had been messaging me since last night. She came to see me when I came to my office this morning brought me a cup of coffee and wanted to check on me, I told her I need time to absorb all the information I was given and to not worry about me. I’m back to my 180. My buddy, who by the way is a member of this site and is reading this, is helping me get a lawyer advice. Thanks for reading this long post. I decided to take a day off today and try to rest. I’m really not feeling well hopefully I don’t have Corona Virus.

A

[This message edited by AHGuy at 6:07 AM, July 24th (Friday)]

Lots to unpack there and smart to take a day off.

Before a lot of analysis begins, tell me one thing, did she show you his texts, was she responding to them and why isn’t he blocked completely from all methods of communication?

More thoughts later....

[This message edited by Stevesn at 6:12 AM, July 24th (Friday)]

Before a lot of analysis begins, tell me one thing, did she show you his texts, was she responding to them and why isn’t he blocked completely from all methods of communication?

yes she showed me, she said the A is over now, I said only because you were busted and dumped, she said she wasn't dumped by him and to prove it she showed me a message he had sent to her that morning. there was only 2 message from him and his name wasn't stored it only shows a number

[This message edited by AHGuy at 6:25 AM, July 24th (Friday)]

If you're thinking about R, it can't happen until she's honest. She's still lieing about about the heater incident. You know it. She knows you know it. But she's holding on for dear life to that one.

She needs to block his number completely. And on social media.

Anyway that’s just one small step and there’s so much more that I shouldn’t dwell on it.

Get some rest and personally I’d recommend that you let that be your last bungee for a while. Good to get out of your system but you have a lot of thinking to do and things to take care of and alcohol won’t make those things easier.

I know many others will chime in here, and I will too as I put some thoughts together.

Last question , what was in the plan to rebuild that you said she put together?

Thanks

She said the A is wrong and she wish she could take it back but somehow it kept our marriage alive.

Well, look at that. It was really a good thing. It kept the marriage alive. You should be thankful she made the sacrifice.

she pledged to do whatever it takes to save our marriage but she wants me to do my part too and at least start by couple counseling.

My recommendation is to not start couples counselling or marriage counselling. You'll read that consistently on SI for good reason. In MC the marriage is the patient. Far too often the BS is re-victimized. They are asked to accept responsibility for at least part of the adultery.

Adultery is 100% on her. There is a sharing of responsibility on the marriage - some portion but not likely 50:50. There is nothing you did or did not do that caused her to commit adultery no matter what her excuses wrapped up as reasons are.

IC for you would be a good idea. IC for her is a must. MC a possibility if she has shown she might be a good candidate for R. Has the book "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" by Linda J. McDonald been recommended to you? It identifies what a remorseful spouse looks and acts like. If it hasn't been recommended I'm doing so now.

She gave me a book to read saying it would help me regardless, she is reading another book about infidelity, Church pastor suggested both books.

I'm a born again Christian. My faith is very important to me. I would be cautious, though, of church pastors. It could be this one is very good but often, by my observation, they want to save the marriage and re-victimize the one cheated on. If there is even one tiny iota of blameshift as in asking you to accept any responsibility shut it down.

Your WW may be a very good candidate for R. She needs to be consistent and dedicated for a long time. It will be easy to keep up a façade of remorse for a short time but it gets hard to do if it isn't real. R or D it's a long and painful haul.

I used to be pro R and pro get out of adultery. I think I lean more to the D side now. There are too many returns of those who thought they had R'd and got hit again. Even a few currently on SI who stayed together seem to me to be living more like roommates with benefits.

A small study by Charny and Parnass documented in the book "Cheating in a Nutshell" by Mitchell and Mitchell found that 34% of marriages ended in D because of adultery, 43.5% continued but were rated distressed or unhappy 6% were rated blah or empty and 9% were rated as improved.

Again, your WW may be a good candidate for R. She may prove to get you into the 9 or 10%. If R is going to be attempted then I think marriage or couples counselling would be advised.

The fact that she still lands on "it wasn't meant to disrespect you" makes what she did seem that much more callous.

She straight up said having sex with him was a way of retaliation. She's a real prize.

She is 100% in damage control mode. This is not about you. She sees her precious image about to be shattered and her cake about to me taken away. So she's hustling like crazy to maintain it. That is it.

I won't judge you for wanting to save your marriage. But having to live with that is something I just couldn't do.

Take it easy on yourself, AHGuy.

If you're thinking about R, it can't happen until she's honest. She's still lieing about about the heater incident. You know it. She knows you know it. But she's holding on for dear life to that one.

we must have spent a whole hour or close to it talking just about that incident. She said that she had no intention to cokhold me or disrespected me but she understands why i feel bad about it. I told her that his comment were clear from a man stand point and as a woman she would not understand it, I told her him insisting on me doing it had only one purpose which is humiliate me for his own ego because I'm pretty sure there are 1000s of HVAC people that live closer to that house that would be more than happy to do it.. her point is that they agreed to keep the A away from family. she said the whole thing was wrong not just that day.

her point is that they agreed to keep the A away from family.

If this is what they agreed to that is not what they did. As you've said, there are a multitude of HVAC guys closer. He insisted and she assisted to get you to drive that far with intent. He absolutely was intending to diminish you and show his superiority. What he has shown, though, is his inferiority in integrity and morals and hers, as well. He liked the knowledge of being right in front of you knowing he was fucking your wife. He is a POS among POS.

How did his BS respond when you showed he is still texting your WW?

AHGuy,

I’m sure you will get pages of good advice. It is often said: take what you need and leave the rest.

You could tell the OBS about this site, she seems to need it. But then she might read your thread. You could tell her all the details you learned, not only the morning text. That OBS is a godsend.

Your goal of this meeting was to get some answers. Her goal was trying to save the marriage, for her benefit.

If you are ever considering R, she will need to stop blaming you and your marriage and take 100% responsibility for the affair. The OM is a POSOM, BUT your WW let him pursue her. She is in real estate, is that going to happen each time she is not happy about something in a marriage?

Whoever encouraged the affair is no friend of your marriage. One condition for R could be that she quits her job.

Do you know the husband of her work colleague that encouraged her affair? You could warn him to keep his eyes opened, she seems like a piece of work.

She will also need to go to IC to fix herself before even considering MC. The marriage is not the problem, her cheating is the problem.

You may want to ask for a detailed timeline, including exactly what they did physically, it’s up to you.

She has broken your trust. For R, she will have to stop blame shifting, minimizing, and lying. You could tell her that lying could be the reason for divorce. She would need to fix herself, and help you heal, which takes years.

You can get rid of the truck too if it triggers you.

You can continue with D even if you love her. That works too.

People will say you are doing great, because you are not doing the pick me dance, doing the 180, meeting the WW on your terms and taking no BS.

One day at a time...

Last question , what was in the plan to rebuild that you said she put together?

Couples counseling is her magic plan to regain my trust and help me get over the trauma . she talked about her needing to search her soul repenting and going back to Jesus, she doesn't want divorce but would understand if that's what I want. she said if I give her a second chance and invest time on our marriage she will give me a blank sheet where I can write anything I want her to do and she would do it ,those actually her words, she is reading a book that pastor recommended, and she said it opened her eyes already.

She straight up said having sex with him was a way of retaliation. She's a real prize.

she didn't say that, that's just my conclusion of how it happened. she was mad at me for going to Canada but at that time they were already involved emotionally, according to her they had only kissed once before having sex, broke up with him then he started apologizing then they were back at it going out together. when I went on that trip he offer to make it up for her and took her that week and took her to different places everyday and had sex in his boat, then in his friend's house.

How did his BS respond when you showed he is still texting your WW?

she didn't sound like she was surprised. she just asked about me and my wife, then told me that her POS husband is going from begging for forgiveness to threatening her and everything in between. he is blaming her for everything and told her that her hiring a spy was the last nail on the coffin.

AH, I do not normally post on this spot as I am pretty damn blunt and a good candidate to be banned. Your story resonates with me as five plus years ago I busted my FWW.

Funny how my wife was in sales as yours is.

When I read your post about your meeting comparing it to a sales pitch, it was deja vu all over for me.

From your post, and granted ,I am looking at it from 30,000 feet,I did not glean that she was remorseful, only sorry she got caught. Only you know what she is feeling. I am going on my 5th year of R, and it can be done. My FWW had a fling with a well hung ( yes, I had to ask her wish I did not) co-worker for nine months. I did a hard 180, had papers drawn up and sat them on the desk in my study and let them sit while I left the state for six weeks. I kept her twisting in the wind, and I hate to admit I relished doing so.

The obstacle you must overcome is the most egregious act of having you travel to fix the heater to allow for her rendezvous with POSOM. You are 100% spot on about his intent to humiliate you. This is your hammer to keep driving home to your cheating wife how it made you feel.

In counseling, my MC instructed me to always ask “well how would you feel?” As he told me women are all about feelings.

I used that to drive home my point like a laser beam.

Looking back, I wish I had the papers served. I would encourage you to file and have her served. You can always stop the process. This would show her decisively that you mean business. Tell her she needs to win you back.

I also detected some blame shifting in what you posted. You are not responsible for her infidelity. This shit is on her totally.

My MC studied under Dr. John Gottman, and uses much of his techniques in therapy and counseling. I would advise you to consider reading some of his work. You may find it helpful as you heal from this treacherous act of betrayal which was cold and calculated on her part.

Do not ever let her refer to this as a mistake. It was not a mistake, it was a decision she made. Remind her.

If you decide to R, it can be accomplished. However, it can only be accomplished if there is true remorse on her part. I doubt that you have yet seen remorse.

Remember keep driving home your points with “how would you feel?” And when she give you a BS line, the word I was instructed to reply with was “unacceptable”. Good luck in whatever path you choose.

I've been around here for awhile now and have read thousands and thousands of posts. So many have been so wonderful, healing, insightful, etc. Each in their own way, of course, but depending on the reader's experience, some REALLY hit home. I have many saved. But this one should be printed out and taped to every BS's bathroom mirror so we read it every day when we're brushing our teeth. IMHO, this one rates a place in our Hall of Fame if we had one. I bolded the line that jumped out of this for me, what a succinct way to say what I've been trying to express for years but couldn't quite get to that last final bit. And I've italicized the other part that I think is so valuable because it's like the confusion over self-worth, people believing that other people can decide it. No one can determine our self-worth; it they could, it would be called "other-worth."

By our very own Chamomille Tea:

"Many of us can say "what happened to our men?". Adultery isn't exclusive to one gender, and it's not more or less painful when you're on the receiving end of it whether you're a man or a woman.

I think the first thing you'd be wise to do is to allow yourself to take a gender neutral stance. "Emasculation" is in the mind. No one gets to define your masculinity but you. Certainly, there's nothing about infidelity which causes it. Because...

Cheating is always about the cheater. It's not about you, your manhood, your marriage, or anything but your WW. It's a flaw in character when a person can directly violate their own stated values. If you say, "I believe in fidelity" and you actually mean it, you build boundaries around that core value which prevent incursions. In cheaters, the core value of fidelity is weak and permeable. There's a "but..." in their values statement... "I believe in fidelity, but... not if I'm unhappy" or "I believe in fidelity, but... not if someone comes along to make me feel sexy and interesting." You see how that works? That "but..." has nothing to do with you. And that's true whether you're a man or a woman. It's not your fault. Nothing you did (or didn't do) caused your WW to cheat. It's about her character. Not about you. "But... he's a millionaire" is just another "but..." in her fractured core values system.

Many men come in here thinking that if they'd just been better husbands, made more money, spent more time at home, been better lovers, etc. that the cheating wouldn't have happened. But cheaters cheat. And there are always more "buts...". You could be all of that, "but... she's bored and needs external validation from a new source". So, you see, the problem isn't eliminating the "buts...", it's about not having one.

You can choose to continue feeling "emasculated". Lord knows, we've seen plenty of men who hold onto that feeling as if it had some kind of intrinsic value. Or, you can choose to define masculinity for yourself, curb any negative self-talk with corrective truths, and deal with the reality that your WW's betrayal wasn't about you.

In the interim, give yourself some time to absorb this trauma. Be patient with yourself. Engage in daily self-care, which is so important because trauma, at it's core, is physiological. Get tested for STDs. Talk to your doctor about stress management. And see an attorney to get a good look at your financial prospects.

Strength and healing to you as you process."

Oh and...

but I would give my life for my family. I told her. if god forbid, she was hit by bus and was handicapped for the rest of her life I wouldn’t hesitate a second to carry her and take care of her as long as I’m alive. I reminded her that I cook and clean the house not because I like doing it but because I love my family.

Sounds to me that you are more of a man that the POSOM will ever be. Too bad your WW didn’t see it.

AHGuy,

Couples counseling is her magic plan

Please know that couples/marriage counseling is great but it has its place and time.

Now is not the place or the time.

She explained why she had her A but now she needs IC in order to find out why she felt, at the time, that she was justified to have her A.

I know she said she was mad at you for going hunting but why did being mad give her permission to cheat?

There is a lot for both of you to discover about yourselves, and a lot for her to fix about herself before Couples counseling is considered.

Your post is going to set off a tornado. There is so much to unpack here.

Boiling it down to blunt unalloyed essence.

She is trying to sell you that her orgasming on another guys dork for 2 years saved the marriage.

Cuz, ya know, you had it coming. She warned you to pay more attention And when you didn’t what can you expect.

And by the way, are you gonna believe her that all those post about love and living the dream meant nothing, or are you gonna believe your own lying eyes. See, it was just talk. Surely you can’t believe she was being truthful to her fuck buddy.

But don’t worry. She would never lie to you now because getting busted has made her find God. And after all, she loves you. Even when she was getting screwed she always loved you. And she loves you so much that’s why she considered stopping.

And it wasn’t that bad really because she felt guilty from time to time. “This has to end. Unless my husband is gone this Saturday.”

All snark aside, see if you can find a long thread “now she is SO sorry.” You will see a year long trauma of a woman who got busted who held back the truth and promised to be truthful if only the guy went to counseling with her. Look at how that turned out.

Counseling is going to be about how if you didn’t deserve it actually, at least you can find it understandable. And If it’s understandable then it makes it easy to heal. You will learn to see her side, and you can deal with it by sweeping her off her feet and giving her everything she has always wanted. And so you get a win win. She gets to be the holy paragon she always claims to be and you get a happy contented wife that would never ever think of taking up with another man. Unless you go fishing.

Sorry man. I don’t know how you get to a woman who actually feels vindicated and justified because you just were not always there for her. At least if she says she loved her rich boy toy, it might make sense. But if she sticks with her story she makes herself look like a cheap manipulative self destructive ho.

I'll just chime in with my "opinions" as well.

1. If she thought you didn't love her anymore, she had 2 choices. Divorce or cheat. She chose the one that would cause you the most pain.

2. I wonder what she'd say if you asked her if the affair would still be ongoing if not for the P.I. telling the OBS?

3. Why getting caught make her realize she loved you so much and didn't want to leave you after all????

4. But the biggest thing that jumps out at me about all this is her lack of action to work on herself to become a better person, a safe partner, a moral being. Instead,she's spending her time trying to justify her behavior, turning herself into a pretzel to make herself seem like a moral, ethical person, talking to others and making sure they know that you weren't perfect. To me, that's the biggest red flag of all. Where's the remorse, the guilt, the shame? Instead, it's all "poor me" and "I'm a victim" and "I'm so sad."

5. Ask her: If OM called you today and asked you to run away with him, what would you say?

6. Ask her outright: Do you love OM?

My heart goes out to you, there's nothing much in life worse that this. But you will get through it whichever way you decide to go.

AH

So many keep focusing on the cabin heater incident. Bad but she banged this guy for two years. Before and after that incident.

You are making a BIG mistake going to any MC. What will happen is some genius will tell you in all likelihood to forget the affair and focus on your marriage and why you failed to meet her needs.

And IC is worthless right now. She told you why she did it. Believe what she says. She didn't think she would get caught, it was fun and exciting, and she does not think you will divorce her or she would not be making demands on what YOU need to do.

Your bigger problem right now is that instead of begging his wife to stay married to him, OM is threatening her and still trying to lure your wife back in. And an arrogant price like this is going to keep at it. She is CYA mode.

Ok she claims she is willing to do ANYTHING . How about this for starters

(1) agree to take a polygraph test anytime and as many times as you ask for it unannounced. ???My wife offered that up herself .

(2) sending OM letter drafted by attorney telling him that he is not to contact her again by any means or she will file a legal action

Who is this work colleague of hers??? Your wife needs to tell that person they are not talking any more. And if its her boss she needs to switch reality companies.

You need to see an attorney and let her know you are doing that because you are not sure what you are going to do.

You need to tell her if she goes to IC at some point she will sign a document authorizing the therapist to discuss the sessions with you. If you do not do that you will have no fucking idea if this therapist is telling her she is on solid ground or that she should not divulge any more details, which seems to be SOP especially from female therapists.

Getting out of DENIAL is your first goal. That means that you forget the whys and ACCEPT that she did it because she WANTED to and did not think she would get caught. For every "why' she comes up with thousands of women have the same problem and do not cheat. The whys are simply excuses.

Again, your big problem right now is OM wants to still revive the affair, there are hundreds of apps and ways to stay in contact, and if your wife claims she tried to break it off numerous times then what makes you think if you don't meet all her demands or needs she won't get dragged back in again.

And any more discussion should not be done when she has time to make a prepared speech and presentation to you. She is a salesperson and you are playing right in to her strengths.