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Newest Member: mathemantic

Just Found Out :
is this real?

Topic is Sleeping.

Lalagirl ( member #14576) posted at 11:50 AM on Wednesday, February 10th, 2021

She only wants the kids because of the CS that she is no longer getting.

TBH, I had a hard time reading what she wrote because it was so poorly written.

Did you find out about the results of her drug tests?

Keep documenting. It will continue to serve you well.

Me-58 FWH-60 Married 40 years 9/2/2023 grown daughters-40&36.14yo GS,11yo GD & 9yo GD (DD40); 12yo GD & 7yo GD(DD36). D-day #1-1/06; D-day #2-3/07 Reconciled! Construction Complete. Astra inclinant, sed non obligant

posts: 8894   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2007
id 8632033

Freeme ( member #31946) posted at 1:21 PM on Wednesday, February 10th, 2021

WoW! They revoked CS from her. .... This note which I'm sure she will get too, will realllllly set her off.

Looks like you were right. Try to ignore it as best you can, you also should be in the room when the call or zoom call with their mother and make sure it doesn't get out of hand with guilt and blameshifting. Just a few days ago you weren't getting anything from her about visits...She was letting a convict rule her life, she was putting her kids lives in danger over him and now... they are her world?

A friend of the court is visiting this week right? They should be able to see if the house has electricity, hot water... When I worked with Social services they had access to the court records (another state, another time) not sure if they do now, They also spoke to both parties (Parents and children).

Do you know how she did on the Court ordered Drug test?

I'm guessing that $$$ reality is setting in. Hopefully this will push her to get help. Get a job, get a plan, get stable. Before she could use the kids to get you to do what she needed... Her car broke down = you needed to fix it so the kids could get to school. You felt like a bad parent not helping her out... that's off the table until she get's herself fixed.

Go as NC as you can with her.

posts: 2807   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2011   ·   location: Washington DC
id 8632045

Waggingthedog ( member #65793) posted at 2:20 PM on Wednesday, February 10th, 2021

Dear Subverted,

I read back through some of your earlier posts to remind myself what was going on in your situation. In other words, what we know, what we don’t know and what has happened so far. I know that you STBX WW’s words can cut at you sometimes, as they would anyone.

Correct me if I am wrong, but here is what happened in your normal, everyday history:

1.) You indicated that throughout your relationship your STBEX WW had hormonal swings that were really bad, but that she returned to what you perceived as normal often.

2.) She likely had a preoccupation with beauty (the eyebrows comment reminded me of that) throughout your relationship.

3.) She had a horrific childhood and likely never dealt with that thoroughly.

4.) She likely was a decent mother on the days she was “there.”

5.) She was frequently sexual with you.

Again, correct me if I am wrong, but these are the most recent events:

1.) Her doctors changed her longstanding medication for Bi-Polar disorder.

2.) Following this change in medication, she somehow found a person convicted of sexual offenses and quickly began an affair that she hid from you. She took wildly dangerous steps in curating this affair and had unprotected sex with this man.

3.) When this man went to jail on a new charge, she pivoted to thinking she would become a “cam girl” and illegally sell weed to support her lifestyle. She utilized marital funds to contact this man while he was incarcerated.

4.) She then had the bright idea that she was going to run a halfway house for ex convicts that were being released – all while having custody of your children.

5.) She found another man who was doing drugs, a religious person, became deeply religious, had this man around your children, and then was beaten with them in the house.

6.) She’s begun drinking and smoking in the house.

7.) She lied to a court of law when sworn to tell the truth about events that were easily disprovable.

8.) She is blowing up your email and other sources calling you a jerk for not letting her see her children on a schedule that she demands (not what the court orders).

These to me are the main points.

On these boards, we frequently think of our own stories and correlate them to the ones on here, and vice versa. I didn’t share my story when it was going on, but there are some similarities in yours (like all of ours).

Had you asked me a year before D-Day if my own EXWW was cheating on me I would have called you crazy. I would have said “I’ve been with her more than a decade, I know her and I would know if something like that was going on.” I would have said “where would she find the time? She works and then she comes home, there are no gaps in her schedule.” I would have said, “If she felt that way then she would just leave.” I started to suspect about a year before D-Day, but nothing concrete. When I finally found out, the picture became a LITTLE bit clearer.

I was married about your same amount of time. I was about the same age. I, too, had a WW with some mental health issues (though not the same ones).

What I found out was that likely the entire marriage was a lie. Years and years. At least two LTAs that I knew of that both spanned years.

I tried to reconcile. I really, really wanted it to work. I had very strong feelings for my ex and could not imagine losing her.

I had a plan that included no contact and a polygraph test – I needed to know the truth and I needed to see progress towards something better. I thought my plan was entirely reasonable. It nearly killed me, but I really wanted it to work out. I loved her.

About six months into whatever you could consider reconciliation, she crossed the line I put down – in effect, she called my bluff. It came out that she was still in contact with the OM and she refused to take a polygraph test. What that meant is that I would never know the truth; and I couldn’t fathom how the truth could have possibly been darker than what I already knew. It was then I knew, no matter how much I wanted to make it work, that I had to divorce for both of our sakes. Nothing would change. The truth was important to me. Keeping the line on my word when no-contact was violated was important to me; it was really if she respected me.

I still struggle with it, and I expect I always will in some form.

I bring this up to show you that when we are convinced of one truth prior to DDay, it is very difficult to accept that there is an entirely alternate reality that is the real truth.

I always found it useful to step outside and give yourself the advice that you would give your buddy if he told you this story. I also like to reverse roles for clarity.

In my case, the advice would be, “dude, she doesn’t love you. She wants you to divorce her but she can’t come out and say it. That’s why she keeps crossing the lines.” In my case, with the polygraph being withdrawn, it would have been “she’s worried about humiliation now and doesn’t realize how important it is for you to know the truth? She’s blown other dudes and come home and kissed you and your kid. Humiliation is nothing here.” In my case, I had to ask myself, “what would she have done in the same situation?” I think she would have divorced me without a second thought.

In your case, any friend of yours would probably say to run, in some form or fashion. Like I’ve said repeatedly, she’s dangerous. Now, that’s easy for a friend to say. They are not invested in your relationship… but anyone that hears that their WW is sleeping with a convicted sex offender… you know what anyone outside would say. Yikes.

In the law, there are two areas of criminal liability that bear on some things in court when crimes are charged: competency and insanity.

Competency is if the person can even understand what is going on in court. Do they know what the judge does, the prosecutor, the defense attorney? Can they assist in their own defense? If they can’t then they get treatment until they can understand what is going on.

Insanity is if, at the time of the crime, the person could control themselves. I.e. they knew what they were doing was wrong, but couldn’t help it. Or that they didn’t even know what they were doing. This theory of the law has been around forever, but it takes many different forms and has changed over the years. Generally, if you didn’t know what you were doing then you might go to get mental health treatment rather than go to jail.

Let’s assume that your STBEXWW had a mental break following the change in her medication. Did she know what she was doing was “wrong”? I would argue that, yes, she knew. She had the presence of mind to lie about it afterward. Could she resist it? I couldn’t know. The tricky thing with mental illness is that people do some really strange things that don’t seem to make sense and don’t have a discernable rationality but that are related to the mental illness. Without the mental illness, then they would do different things.

Right now, it does not appear to show that your STBEXWW is “competent” in that she just does not get it. She does not see her own culpability in this situation; she just knows that things have changed and she blames you for the changes that matter to her.

People that have been betrayed often think that they were the best at marriage, and that the other person is ‘evil.’ That is true in some cases. I don’t see my ex as ‘evil’ even though I probably should. I think that she never really wanted to be married, had extremely poor coping and communications mechanisms, and did things that hurt me. She probably thought she could get her “needs” met and I would never find out – everyone would be happy. Was I great in marriage? Probably not. I’m no saint. It’s such a complicated stew of stuff. Did my ex know what she was doing was wrong? Yes. Did my ex know what she did would likely end in the end of our relationship? Yes. When I said I would give her another shot, did she know that having continued contact and refusing a lie detector would result in me divorcing her? She should have, I told her it would. There was likely a part of her that wanted it to happen.

Your STBXWW knows these things too. She knows having drug addicted convicts convicted of sex offenses around her children might result in something bad. She just can’t help it. She is not able to face what has happened.

Turn it around: If you suddenly started having affairs with convicts and women that did drugs around your kids, what would she have done? I can’t answer that, but I think she would have been concerned about the kids and gotten you away from them until it was safe.

The sad truth with mental illness is that there’s no way to see inside the mind of the person you love and make sense of it because you don’t have the same framework to understand why they are doing the things they are doing. It’s the same with an addict. You can have feelings for them, you can want them to get better, but you can’t force them to do so. You also have to look at your safety when dealing with the situation.

The things she wrote show that she has absolutely no self awareness of the situation that she has created. She has not even started to face that part. She is on a tear and lashing out, but she hasn’t reached a place where she can take stock of what’s happened. That may be a long time coming.

What you need to do – the attitude to take on – is to know that you did the best for your kids. That’s all you can control. You want her to get better, but that’s a choice she has to make. Do not think of this as revenge (as might be in all of our hearts occasionally). The three lives that you are taking care of now are the real victims here, and if you look at it as revenge it will just hurt them more. What you want is for them to have a SAFE relationship with their mother once she gets well.

Also know that her being SAFE might take a long time. It might require a medication change. It might require counseling. It might require drug treatment. The court is in charge of telling you when she is safe. You may have a position and it’s your job to bring the information to the court, but the court has that job to say when something is safe. It will likely seem too soon when the Court believes she is safe enough for visits and some form of custody. Or, she might go completely off the deep end and never be safe in the court’s eyes. We can’t know – that’s up to you and your lawyer and the courts.

The goal, again, is that your STBEXWW gets healthy, she then has a healthy relationship with the children and helps you co-parent.

I will end saying this, as this is too long as it is… I doubt you know the whole truth of her stepping outside the marriage. I could be wrong, but, were I a betting man, I would bet on other instances of this. The preoccupation with beauty, the severity of this situation, the childhood trauma, the craziness of life in the early years, her repeated attempts to get you back with sex… these lead me to believe that she views physical intimacy as transactional – it does not have a relation to emotional connection. This mindset is one of those things that makes cheating more likely. Again, I could be wrong.

Likewise, certain forms of bi-polar can be progressive – meaning that it gets worse over time. Even if this is the first time, it might not be the last even if she did get help.

Again, you have my sympathy. This is certainly a really hard situation to go through and you are handling it with great resolve – even though it probably doesn’t feel like it. Keep acting like how you want to be seen. Don’t get into a victim mindset. Don’t define yourself by this. Just know that you have to keep going and do what is best for the kids on all fronts.

The emails are noise. Keep them. File them. Share them with your attorney. Do not respond unless your attorney tells you to. What she says in there is more likely related to the mental illness than reality.

Again, not legal advice. Only do what your attorney tells you to do.

posts: 75   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2018
id 8632061

HalfTime2017 ( member #64366) posted at 7:16 PM on Wednesday, February 10th, 2021

Why would your WW have visitation rights after the shit she's pulled with the kids? I'd fight hard to have her be kept away from the kids, I wouldn't even consider supervised visits until she has proven that she is clean, and not doing drugs. Yes this man is no longer around, but another one will take his place soon enough.

I'd show the judge that she was trying to sell weed and be a cam girl. You should do everything you can to protect your children, b/c they need a parent like you, not your WW, who is very close to reaching her bottom. I don't think she's there yet. She's still fighting.

As for the division of assets, you will go on and make that money up. I had to cut a very large check to my ex, give her one of the homes we had and she walked away with parts of my retirement, IRA and equity in my home now. But it was SOOO worth it. I only owe her another 2.6 yrs in spousal, so that will come soon enough. CS, I will owe, but that's for the kids. You will make it all back. This shit sandwich will get thru to the other side, and you'll be expunging it soon enough. But you will be okay, and your life will improve drastically.

The one thing that is most important now is to get the kids counseling, and to keep them away from their mom as she heads toward rock bottom. That is damaging to the kids. She is wreckless, and no telling what type of harm she would put them in. Its not true that kids need both parents. Its only true when both parents are good stable parents. You WW is a fucken wreck, and that is more damaging to the kids. Let your WW fix herself first, than, as shes able to prove that she can be a stable parent, then she can reintegrate back with the kids. FIght hard for them and their needs. Your WW only wants them right now b/c of $$$ and she is lonely. If there was another man right now, would she even care?

posts: 1424   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2018   ·   location: Cali
id 8632175

Notsure123 ( new member #71460) posted at 12:20 AM on Saturday, March 20th, 2021

Hi subverted

Just checking in to see how you are.

posts: 26   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2019
id 8643420

Freeme ( member #31946) posted at 7:56 PM on Wednesday, March 31st, 2021

Just checking into see how you and you family are doing. Please update when you get a chance.

posts: 2807   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2011   ·   location: Washington DC
id 8646985

 subverted (original poster member #74713) posted at 7:55 PM on Friday, April 2nd, 2021

Im here doing OK. Lots of soul searching. I will fill everyone in when i get a free min... itl be long

posts: 104   ·   registered: Jul. 1st, 2020
id 8647698

 subverted (original poster member #74713) posted at 5:57 AM on Wednesday, April 28th, 2021

So Feb. 17th came and gone.

This super ultra dangerous felon is clearly out of the picture now as she came clean and was being manipulated by him. She told me that he would not leave. He threatened her with police against her if she said anything. This was after I had taken the kids out of that house.

So at the trial, I could tell she was sincere. I knew the kids needed their mother. And she had seemingly passed all her drug tests.

I folded and told her she could go back to 50/50 custody.

Fast forward a few weeks. She and I start talking again. She has been going to church and she came to terms with the fact that what she did to me was terrible. And she would like me to forgive her and start over.

I fell for it. Tried a few times. Even agreed to take back up marriage counseling. We found a really good counselor.

I can tell you that without a doubt (i think) she is 100 percent remorseful and ready for reconciliation. But I cannot help but think that she partly is because she is about to lose everything once our D is final.

Every time I try to make things work with her, I am the one that pulls away. You see, I had already started a relationship with the girl I had spoken about in the past. I miss her. I feel right around her. But she also has some crazy issues to contend with. I have tried and pulled away from WW now at least 3 times. I make it a week and then fall apart.

Everytime it starts out good and then it gets to the point where I am not even sexually attracted to her. The thoughts of the affair are too much to bare sometimes.

I haver been no angel in this matter and have hurt her as well. A woman that wants her husband back so dearly and yet I pull myself away and wonder why I do.

I am torn between 2 women and feel like an idiot, because I am. There is much more to the story. The first week I was there, when i left I actually told her that I miss my friend (the new girl) and I wanted to take htings slowly. She was so hurt by this that the first thing she did was start sending nudes to some rando dude on facebook. I found out about it, but could I get mad? I literally told her that I wanted someone else.

Just today she asked if I still even loved her. I tried to make love to her twice today, and just cant. I'm not turned on. Not like I am with new girl.

Do I make a run for it with WW and try my best to make it work? I do still love her. But its very hard and will require much therapy. Or do I continue to stick with the girl that most of the time makes me happy and truly wants me for me?

This is a super short version of what has happened. And I know what I am doing here is wrong. I know that I need to be a man and choose one or the other, or none at all, and move on. I know that if kids were not involved I would probably not be talking to WW the way I am. I am so F'ing confused, fish out of water, that I really don't know what to do.

Be hard on me. I deserve it. I feel like i'm breaking 2 hearts that I really do care about and that's not fair to anyone. I don't want to be the narcissist that I feel like I am being.

My 12 year old daughter meanwhile is in distress. She's making suicide a thing now and the teachers and principle and I are working on this.... Not sure how to navigate that either. I have her going to 2 counselors.

I thought I had everything figured out but I really dont. This is just beginning again.

Oh and.... This felon she had living there and beating her has stolen everything I own. Good feeling. As I lay there in the bed she had relations with 2 diff men in, (my bed) (my house) it wares on me.

[This message edited by subverted at 11:58 PM, April 27th (Tuesday)]

posts: 104   ·   registered: Jul. 1st, 2020
id 8654635

Jambomo ( member #74853) posted at 6:02 AM on Wednesday, April 28th, 2021

How about for a while you don’t have anyone?

I think you would benefit from being on your own for a bit and you are being selfish here by making this about one or other woman - I don’t think you are ready to be with either of them.

You are going to have to do some work on you, learn to be happy as your own person and stop your own monkey branching and using women because you don’t want to be on your own. It’s only going to hurt these people and possibly others in the future.

Go get yourself healthy first.

posts: 251   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020   ·   location: Scotland
id 8654638

 subverted (original poster member #74713) posted at 6:05 AM on Wednesday, April 28th, 2021

I agree here.

posts: 104   ·   registered: Jul. 1st, 2020
id 8654639

ChamomileTea ( Moderator #53574) posted at 7:31 AM on Wednesday, April 28th, 2021

The first week I was there, when i left I actually told her that I miss my friend (the new girl) and I wanted to take htings slowly. She was so hurt by this that the first thing she did was start sending nudes to some rando dude on facebook. I found out about it, but could I get mad?

So, your WW met your honesty with yet another incident of childish behavior? Nothing new there. You're feeling bad because the honesty you offered wasn't really pleasant for her, but that's beside the point. You were being HONEST and talking about your feelings... so she decided the best way to respond to that would be sending naked photos of herself.

Listen, way back when you first posted, I told you that in my opinion, your WW would always be a child, and maybe I'm wrong about that, but really... do you HAVE that kind of time? Some people are stunted in terms of emotional maturity. My own mother was 16 years old all her life. And it's unfortunate because usually when that happens it's because of early trauma, but that trauma was NOT YOUR FAULT. You didn't cause it. You couldn't have stopped it. And you can't fix it.

I can't tell you what you ought to do, but what I can tell you is that whatever you decide, you need to advocate for yourself and for your children. Sending naked photos is NOT how grown-ups deal with their issues. And in a matter of weeks, from where your WW had lost custody and had nothing left, to somehow managing to get herself back into your good graces, at the first indication of difficulty, THAT's her choice.

This might be who she is FOREVER. There are some things that psychiatrists can't fix.

My mother was emotionally only 16 years old, but 76 in her body when she died... and everyone around her paid some kind of price for the childhood abuse she endured. It doesn't matter how sad you might be for someone like that. It doesn't change them.

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)
Married 40 years; in R with fWH for 8

posts: 6980   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8654653

The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 9:20 AM on Wednesday, April 28th, 2021

ChamomileTea makes an excellent point.

Your wife reacts to your mixed feelings by being disrespectful (yet again) and choosing an ego boost from some other guy to make her happy. Seriously she has learned NOTHING!

I had an in-law that was emotionally stunted at 14 when she lost both parents to alcoholism. Never a serious conversation ever and always a beer in hand. Never without. Whole family had addiction issues. Sadly no one got help b/c they didn’t see any issues.

Appears to be the same for your wife. She will resort to the wrong choices again and again. Maybe with help she could change. But her issues are definitely deep rooted.

As an adult you need to model the right behavior for your children. And that means you finish one relationship before you start another. You don’t bring your unfinished business to the next relationship. Because you are dooming the next relationship from the start.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 10 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.

posts: 13791   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8654663

Waggingthedog ( member #65793) posted at 12:38 PM on Wednesday, April 28th, 2021

Dear Subverted,


You need some tough love here.

I’m going to rip you up one side and down the other. It’s going to hurt. You might be mad. But, frankly, you need it.

Ready? Here we go.

F****** stop it.

You’re hurt. We know that. Your story is horrific and possibly one of the worst on here.

You’re flailing around trying to hold onto anything that will make the hurt go away. You’re holding onto your WW hoping she will stop the hurting. You’re holding onto the other woman hoping maybe she will stop the hurting.

Get that idea out of your head. There’s no help coming. It’s just you.

Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, is going to make this hurt go away. No other person is going to help you here, least of all your WW.

What you’re doing is using two people to patch up the gaping hole inside you right now. And that won’t work. You know that. I know that. Everyone on here knows that. Some people do it anyway.

Using someone else to make the hurt go away is selfish. And selfishness here is something that is hurting your kids.

Here’s where I get mean.

Your daughter is talking about suicide and your concern is your relationship with your new girl or your WW? Does that sound right to you? You’re broken, sure, but when your kids are hurting like they are you do NOT get to be broken around them. Suck it up. Get therapy for yourself. Let it out to a professional. What you’re doing right now is scaring an innocent little girl that has already been though more than enough. You will never forgive yourself if something happens to her.

The new woman… she might like “you” for “you” but “you” really are not “you” right now. You’re a drowning man trying desperately to hold onto anything… and let’s be honest… anything. You might drag this new woman down with you. It’s selfish. And, frankly, she should probably know better than to inject herself into this.

F****** stop it.

Your WW is a selfish prostitute for attention. Oh, you turned your attention to another woman and you’re confused after she had sex with a felon in your bed, got beaten in front of her children and allowed the dude to steal all of your stuff… “he’s mad at me… better send nudes to someone else.” Classy.

Right now, you need to wake the F*** up.

Your kids are HURTING. Your daughter is talking to school personnel about SUICIDE. It is only a short time before the state’s Child Welfare Services could start getting involved.

Do you want to lose custody of your kids? Do you want them in foster care?

Here’s what I think you need to do:

1.) Everytime you want to sleep with your new woman, stop, and go play with your kids. There’s plenty of time in your life to explore your sexual side. There’s not plenty of time in your life to raise your kid. Your kids need you RIGHT NOW. They need you far more than you need sex and companionship. Ideally you’d go without women AT ALL and focus on your kids completely.

2.) Do whatever you want with women. You want to live with your WW and have a compliant sex partner occasionally while she almost certainly has sex with other people? Go for it. It’s a TERRIBLE IDEA AND WILL PROBABLY SCAR YOUR KIDS if you can’t keep your situation in check. And she will probably just use this time to screw you over later. And, while you probably haven’t checked with your lawyer about this… you NEED to.

3.) If you can’t get your WW out of your head (and I don’t think you’re even close to being able to do so), let the poor other woman go. This “I can’t decide” bull**** is just going to hurt someone that might care about you. Brining in an innocent and cheating on them because you need comfort is a s***** move. Don’t be that guy.

Look. You’re drowning. You’re trying to hold onto anything that makes you feel better. When you’re doing this you’re ignoring your kids and they’re scared, crying and your 12 year old is talking about killing herself.

You know what you should be doing here. Just because it’s hard doesn’t mean you can ignore it.

Sorry for being rough, but frankly you need some tough love.

posts: 75   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2018
id 8654675

jb3199 ( member #27673) posted at 1:00 PM on Wednesday, April 28th, 2021


2 boys
Married over 30yrs.

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary PuckettD-Day(s): EnoughAccepting that I can/may end this marriage 7/2/14

posts: 4342   ·   registered: Feb. 21st, 2010   ·   location: northeast
id 8654680

Freeme ( member #31946) posted at 1:09 PM on Wednesday, April 28th, 2021

Everytime you want to sleep with your new woman, stop, and go play with your kids.

and everytime you want to "work things out with your WW" read this thread. Read what you've posted. Read what she's done.

You feel like she's just wants you back because she is losing everything... yep. I'm sure that's part of it. If you read over the thread... everytime things got tough she turned to you for help. Money, home, rent... her cam girl that sells pot ... didn't work. She contacted you.

You need serious counseling to figure out why you feel the need to fix/save this woman even though she is killing you.

Your daughter needs serious help. Going back and forth between her mother is not helping. You had a clean break. You had custody things weren't great for you and the kids but at least you were all safe. I hate doing 2by4's after the fact because ... what can you do now... but.... You were doing better and better with every day of NC with your WW...and now where are you?

posts: 2807   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2011   ·   location: Washington DC
id 8654682

 subverted (original poster member #74713) posted at 9:26 PM on Sunday, May 16th, 2021

Wag, i respect your words. I also respect critiscism... cause in these moments, i feel like the narcissistic cheater...

I am living back at my house now, WW and all..

Trying to pick up around my house. The one that she stayed in. The one she had sexual relations with not just her AP, but also her abusive, felonious, meth addicted boy friend who after beating my wife, stole around 7k worth of my tools and supplies in my house.... That's the bed i sleep in now..... With my apologetic, cheating soon to be ex wife who spits scripture at me like I'm definitely going to be getting a free ride to Hell if i dont forgive her, and respect the family unit and hold this family together... and "move on"....

But at least my kids have thier mother and father under 1 roof. And we get along... most of the time..

I've been a bit standoffish the last week or so. Mainly because this whole thing is just so damn daunting for me. I dont know what I want. But as each day goes by the view of me living single, in my own house, getting my kids every other week, and doing MY OWN things seems very appealing. When i was at my best friends house last week his wife spoke of a very attractive woman that was asking about me. This really kicked up my ego. Made masculinity go into overdrive, and i was ready to take on the world. The thought of that. The power of a "free me"....

Or does it? I still love this woman. I still want a future with her. I still cannot fathom the thought of my children being around a "step dad" or her with a new "man". Does my love for her out weigh those things? Dont know. Why do i feel so absolutely terrible and sinful when i think about kicking her out of the house and moving on with my life? Has she manipulated me this much? Or am i actualy a terrible, narcissist living in denial? Speaking to 2 women at the same time? Ughhh.. dirty....

I just dont know what to do anymore. When i dont forgive and forget and move on like she asks me too, she gets very upset and then our marriage is thrown right back into the old game. "I did all this, and you didnt do any of this" is a constant theme in our marriage.

I just dont know if I want that anymore.

Will the karma that comes with not accepting her sincere apologies and letting her go come back to haunt me? Will she find a better, richer man to take care of her and rub this blantently in my face?

Theres the other girl too. I broke that poor womans heart. Yeah... she got caught lying to me about some pretty serious stuff (not cheating) for about the first 7 months I've known her.... but man, i really feel like i did her dirty. She truly loved me, and i threw her away for my WW. And i think i loved her too. Or at least cared for her deeply. She still tries to contact me but our talking has been at a minimum due to the fact that my WW is constantly blaming my standoffishness on the fact that im "with another woman". And that i have agreed to go to MC to see if our fire can be rekindled....


I dream of the day that my affairs have been worked out, and i can focus on enjoying my life again.

Thanks again for everyones response and for sticking with me this last year...

2 more weeks until my 1 year anniversary of D Day...

Still fighting

Still healing

Still listening

You guys know who you are. And yes Free, looking at my old posts really does serve as a reminder of the pain this woman has caused me. But shes only human. When do i say to myself, "i coulda been the cheater, would i want forgiveness?"

[This message edited by subverted at 3:33 PM, May 16th (Sunday)]

posts: 104   ·   registered: Jul. 1st, 2020
id 8660019

Marz ( member #60895) posted at 10:07 PM on Sunday, May 16th, 2021

I just dont know what to do anymore. When i dont forgive and forget and move on like she asks me too, she gets very upset and then our marriage is thrown right back into the old game. "I did all this, and you didnt do any of this" is a constant theme in our marriage.

Poor muffin got manipulated by a bad man? Sorry but she’s a grown woman who made that decision. Apparently she learned nothing.

The capability is high she’ll do it again. How’d you like going through it the first time?

posts: 6791   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2017
id 8660024

Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 12:49 AM on Monday, May 17th, 2021

Men can be abused (mentally/physically) just as women can. I consider what you have endured as emotional abuse. So, women who are abused have a safe house they can go to but there is nothing for men. You are supposed to suck it up and be tough. It takes women many times trying to leave before they do. Why don’t we give men the empathy as they try to do the same thing. It’s going to take you a while but you will come to some sort of decision then you will act. Until then you will live in limbo like lots of us.

Take care of yourself and please take care of your children.

When things go wrong, don’t go with them. Elvis

posts: 4149   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8660039

 subverted (original poster member #74713) posted at 1:29 AM on Monday, May 17th, 2021

I guess one of the worst parts, is coming home from work, to a severely depressed WW, kids running amuck trashing the place, having to worry about this dog she decided to get out of the blue when i was gone and had taken full custody of the children, ect.

I come home and i dont know how to greet her.

A hello? A hug and kiss? Nothing at all?

The second one feels like I am just leading it on even though she fully knows my feelings for her. My anger for her. My disgust and mis trust... i love her excuse of "do you rly think id do that again? As if i didnt learn my lesson? You are all i want!" Yah honey, thanks. A year late and a dollar short for your faithful husband. These days my eyes are probably deader than her's were then when "she lost her mind, it was demons!".

She just writes me random letters and cries. Does not appear to be getting much done. I worked 12 hours today, came home to her still in a tee shirt and underwear. Obviously nothing had been done. She always has an excuse.

It's only making things harder because i start to feel bad...

Does she know this? Is she putting on a show to make me feel bad? Or are both of us puttting on a theatrical performance? Do i deep down really not want to lose her because im a coward who's scared of never finding another woman and living my days (im 36) in lonliness???


But like i said....

That goal i have... in my minds eye... does not include her. It does not include anyone.... really.... i dont think anyway.

Started taking Wellbutrin. About a month into it. I guess i can feel something? Maybe nothing? Maybe numb? As a dopamine re-uptake inhibitor i think it is the right way to go.... i think all of the psych evals and amphetamines my parents fed me as a child and teen really did have a lasting effect on my neurotransmitters in my developing mind. My parents insisted i was not a "normal" kid. I was funny. The class clown. Still am... my IQ tests were sky high and that ruined thier "autism claim" . I turned out to be a pretty respectful guy with a pretty respectful income for a high school drop out, junky....

Not sure why i have to endure this pain of infidelity however. And as i stated a year ago, i never saw it comin'.

[This message edited by subverted at 7:34 PM, May 16th (Sunday)]

posts: 104   ·   registered: Jul. 1st, 2020
id 8660043

ChamomileTea ( Moderator #53574) posted at 1:49 AM on Monday, May 17th, 2021

I come home and i dont know how to greet her.

A hello? A hug and kiss? Nothing at all?

The second one feels like I am just leading it on even though she fully knows my feelings for her. My anger for her. My disgust and mis trust... i love her excuse of "do you rly think id do that again? As if i didnt learn my lesson? You are all i want!" Yah honey, thanks. A year late and a dollar short for your faithful husband. These days my eyes are probably deader than her's were then when "she lost her mind, it was demons!".

She just writes me random letters and cries. Does not appear to be getting much done. I worked 12 hours today, came home to her still in a tee shirt and underwear. Obviously nothing had been done. She always has an excuse.

I think you might need to manage your expectations. Your WW is a perpetual CHILD and that's unlikely to change. It certainly has no chance of changing without extensive therapy. So, if you're expecting some sort of normal from an abnormal psychology, that's like squeezing a banana and expecting orange juice. It's just not going to happen.

How about when you get home, you tell her to go take a shower, put some clothes on, and do whatever chore it is she's been neglecting? If she's depressed, she can do what you do, take her medication and write in her journal. Ignoring her obligations to her children and her family aren't cutting it. And if she doesn't like that?... you can always go back to how things were before with her living somewhere else.

If she wants to live like a child, treat her like one. Tell her what to do and when to do it. Reward her when her behavior is acceptable. Give her a verbal correction when it's not. Tailor your expectations to the reality before you rather than what you wish it was. Be kind. This is never going to be the loving, caring, reciprocal relationship you might have wanted because she's just NOT that person. But, who knows? It might serve your needs for now and until your kids are older. It all depends on your priorities, right?

I would advise you to take steps to make sure that you don't have any more children with her. Either send her out for tubal ligation or get a vasectomy. You would also do well to plan a HUGE rainy day fund for whatever emergency comes next. There's always going to be drama and more emergencies. Always. That's just the nature of adults who don't grow up.

I'm so sorry this is how things have played out for you. Your concerns are understandable though. Your WW is way out there and you've got kids to think about. I get it.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 8:10 PM, May 16th (Sunday)]

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)
Married 40 years; in R with fWH for 8

posts: 6980   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8660046
Topic is Sleeping.
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