SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Firstly thank you to those who replied to my other thread regardless of wether or not you approved of my actions, i would rather hear others opinions that be in an echo chamber.

Where to start? at the beginning seems to be a good place.

I am buzzy I am 39 and married to Julie whom i shall refer to as J, we have been married for over 14 years. We have two children, a 10 year old Daughter and an 8 year old Son. I am an only child.

We live in a very nice part of North London and we live in a house that is owned by my parents (my late Grandmothers house) so apart from paying for my parents new years cruise we live rent and mortgage free.

15 months ago I discovered my WW had been having an affair (at this point it was over and had been for several weeks). I caught her because I saw a text message which said "I know you told me it was a mistake and not to contact you but i need to speak to you". I confronted her and she went as white as a ghost and confessed to everything.

Now I have read this and other sites and have read about the stages you go through but I never passed through them, I went straight to anger, my thoughts were not how could you do this to me but how fucking DARE you do this to me.

I told her there and then to get out of the house, cue hysterics, crying, and at one point she was on her knees begging saying what will this do to the kids, my response, "you should have thought about that before you fucked another man" but i relented about her leaving as the last thing i wanted was to disrupt my kids life.

For the next ten days my thoughts churned around in my head and I decided I was, one, going to fuck up her AP's life as much as possible and two have an RA (the RA did not happen till five weeks later)

One thing that wound me up was I told my WW to keep away from me as much as possible but all I got was "i'm sorry, I will do any thing to make it up to you, it was a mistake" etc. I said some awful things to her during that period and truly regret I said them and although I have never apologised for my A I have for the things I said.

My wife and I often frequented a local independent coffee shop, one Saturday morning after leaving the gym we went to the CS and there was a new member of staff a rather attractive women in her mid thirties, she commented about our gym bags and had we just been to the gym on the next block as she was new to the area and was looking for a gym, my wife offered to take her along on one of her guest passes and after a few weeks my wife and Claire became gym buddies and good friends.

One Sunday morning (this was before i discovered my wifes affair) I was returning from a 10K race and was wearing the free T shirt given out at the end of the race and had my finishers medal with me, I called my wife and said lets meet at the CS when i got there my wife was talking to Claire, when Claire saw the T shirt she stared to tell me how much she loved running and we discussed what races we had done (Claire had run several marathons) I suggested she join my running club which she thought was a great idea.

Now up to this point Claire was my wifes friend rather than mine they had been shopping together and a GNO but somehow my Wife decided that Claire had overstepped some line, this was never said but for she would always find some reason to to go to the CS and made excuses not to go to the gym with Claire.

During the period between my discovery of the A and my revenge A i was both angry and despondent I continued to go to the gym without my wife and go running, after one gym session I went to the CS Claire came over and asked how I was and how was Julie, I said please dont talk to me about her and for some reason told her everything (i had to told anyone else as i felt humiliated) she commiserated, I finished my coffee and went home.

Claire became my confidant. One day I was telling Claire that I was going to have a short break on my own and was going to Seville, Claire tells me that she has been there and loves the city and i just blurted out "why dont you come with me" she looked at me for a long moment and said yes I would love to.

I got out my phone and started to book everything and suggested two rooms (I was not assuming anything) Claire just said no one room will do, lets be honest we will have sex.

I was honest with my wife I told her where I was going and who with, she had a crying and sobbing breakdown but I just told her this was payback time.

There is more which i will post later but this brings it up to about a year ago and this was turning into a novel.

Brother, I am sorry for where you find yourself regarding your WW.

But do two wrongs make a right?

I don’t know your dynamics etc, but are your intended actions just designed to hurt WW?

Also Claire is a person, with feelings and the like. Is it fair to use her as a revenge piece.

If you do then please practice safe sex.

Good luck and no judgment here.

I did not use Claire, she knew my story and knew my wife.

Claire admitted that she was attracted to me but would never have acted on it until my offer of a city break to Seville, I did ask during the break her why she came and she said "I like you, I like sex and why would i turn down a free holiday and I am having a great time.

No one was used.

For your own privacy/safety/anonymity (as well as theirs), you might want to edit out their names.

[This message edited by ibonnie at 6:56 AM, November 5th (Tuesday)]

"I like you, I like sex and why would i turn down a free holiday and I am having a great time."

This right here is the reason that you need to change your life around to cut this woman out of it. Her philosophy is that she's going to do whatever suits her and makes her happy, including betraying a friend by openly fucking her husband on a romantic getaway. And now you're upset that your wife expects you not to have contact with her again. Are you serious?

Your wife did something to deeply hurt you, but she did nothing to OW, so what's the basis of OW's "revenge" on your W? She doesn't have one. She just felt entitled to screw her friend's husband. Of course that makes her an ongoing threat. A real friend would have cautioned you to rethink your plan or at least refused to participate in it. If you're done with your marriage, fine, but if you expect your W to work for R, that means no more running club for you. And if this is a "rebalancing" affair, why shouldn't your W be able to "fuck this woman's life up as much as possible?" Isn't that what you've decided to do to AP? Don't you expect your W to go NC with the OM?

Your W's affair has consequences, and yours does, too. If you don't like that, you should have thought twice about what "balance" means.

BSR, I no longer have a relationship with my AP i just see her around and about, my interaction at the club is mostly just hello and how are you we dont have long conversations.

She was my wifes former friend at the time of my RA not her friend. I dont go to the CS anymore and my wife is welcome to check up on me in anyway she wants

I will compromise on many things but not on the club, it is my social centre and i have many long term friends there.

Providing my wife behaves i have no intention to have another A anymore than i had before her A.

Didn't you expect your wife to stop working with OM? Is "hello, how are you" ok between them now in your book? Or an attitude from her of "providing Buzzy behaves, I have no intention to have another A, so I'll chat with OM when I see him around?"

Your W should have thought twice about sleeping with OM if she wanted to keep her job and stable home life. You should have picked someone else if you didn't want to give up the club.

BSR

you seem to be missing the point that none of this would have happened without my wifes A.

Without my RA there would have been no chance at all of R. As far as i was concerned my wife and her AP had my balls in their pockets and no way on Eath would i have let that insults go unpunished.

We have explored and discussed her reasons for the A and i can almost accept some of her reasons (and no it was not neglect or abuse) these i will discuss in a seperate thread.

One thing i will say is that these conversations are catharic so again i thank all for their responses.

I Sent you a PM

Buzzy,

I've got a few questions if you don't mind.

This all happened quite awhile ago, right?

How has your relationship with you wife been since?

How likely were you to have a revenge affair, if the CS girl hadn't literally fell into your lap? Were you actively seeking one? I wonder how many BS's would have turned down such an obvious NSA opportunity 5 weeks from DDay. You've had over a year to justify your actions. I highly doubt anyone here is going to change your mind.

Do you believe your wife trusts you anymore? Do you care either way?

So now what? You have seemingly settled the score. You both forgive and forget? I understand she struck first, but that doesn't mean she isn't incredibly hurt as well.

you seem to be missing the point that none of this would have happened without my wifes A.

I don’t understand this. It sounds like you’re saying that your WW’s A caused your A. Or is it that you think you had a good reason to have an A because your WW did.

I disagree with the first statement. Your WW’s A didn’t cause anything. You chose to have an A as a way to get back at her for what she did. Just to be clear.

no way on Eath would i have let that insults go unpunished.

So you punished her.

It also sounds like the moral issue isn’t important to you. What I mean is that since you felt you had a good enough reason to have an A (because your WW did) then that’s what mattered. The moral part or your own vows didn’t matter to you. It didn’t matter to her either, right? Obviously.

I guess where that takes me is it sounds like it all comes down to who has a good enough reason to have a A. She had one so you had one. Now what if she says you don’t pay attention to her so she feels that’s a good enough reason to have an A? Does that make it okay? It doesn’t matter if you feel it’s a good reason, because reasons are subjective. As long as she thinks it’s a good enough reason then I guess you’re okay if she has an A again? Of course then you’ll have an A too to get back at her and round and round we go.

no way on Eath would i have let that insults go unpunished.

Again, you punished her. So what now? I guess everything is forgiven and you move on? She had an A and you had an A. Who had one first shouldn’t matter at this point.

So, is it and they all lived happily ever after?

you seem to be missing the point that none of this would have happened without my wifes A

Here is the thing, Buzzy. All people who cheat start out by saying "I wouldn't have cheated but..." What reason did your wife give you for her cheating?

My initial "reason" for cheating was I was lonely and didn't feel "seen" by H. We spent no time together, he didn't even say I love you anymore when we got off the phone.

But, upon digging deeper the reason I cheated was because I wanted to. I felt entitled to do it. I had held a lot of resentments towards him and didn't choose to work through them. The cheating was 100% my fault. All the reasons I did it were on me. I have spent the last two years working on myself to figure out why that was okay with me, how I could do such a thing, and show my husband in every way that I wanted him, our marriage and that I was going to fight for it.

By cheating you were trying to "even the score" so to speak. And, whether you like it or not you have pretty much put you both on the same playing field. I get that she did it first, but when you did it, the rules changed. She is likely not going to be as contrite moving forward. You both need to work on yourselves.

At some point, you are going to have to decide if you want this marriage or not. I would never tell this to a BS who didn't have an affair, but the reason I say it to you is, it's not you against her if you want this to work. You both will have to move forward in a way that will be conducive to having a marriage together. I can see how that would not have been top of mind after being devastated by her cheating. But, moving forward, if you want the marriage then you will have to make some concessions for the sake of the marriage. And, some of those concessions will be to be completely NC with the AP. There will be no moving forward without that, and I know you don't like that. But, again, you will have a choice to make if you want your running club or your marriage more.

Right now, I don't think you are ready to make those decisions. And may not be for some time. Just know that as you move forward you are damaging the M further by your own actions. You will have to decide if there comes a point in time if you want to try and restore and rebuild. You can't do it this way, it will not work.

Here is the thing, Buzzy. All people who cheat start out by saying "I wouldn't have cheated but..." What reason did your wife give you for her cheating?

This is an incredibly disingenuous.

This is an incredibly disingenuous

How so?

I believe that anyone who has an affair justifies it under some "reason". And, that reason is typically Bullshit. I don't know how you could think that would seem insincere, I was being very sincere in saying it.

Skadu, please explain. I think I am missing something.

Skadu, bingo! I would swear that without my WW A there would have been no RA, my reason whilst not acceptable to some was nonetheless was my genuine reason.

IF THERE WAS NO A THEN THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO RA

At work so no time for a lengthy explanation, but your entire point was that the desire was the impetus, when really it was the cheating. The desire did not exist until the cheating, so you can't say the reason he cheated was he desired it in the same fashion. It's fundamentally different. Resentment from cheating is not the same beast as bad communication, that's a what-aboutism.

Skadu -

I disagree, but understand where you are coming from. In a lot of my work that I have done on myself I have come to be quite a black and white thinker. To me, it doesn't matter what the reason you have is for cheating, it's always the wrong answer to do so.

I can certainly understand the feelings Buzzy had. But, understanding how someone could feel that way doesn't make the cheating part right. Just because you can empathize with his reason (and really, I can even empathize with his reason -I have stated publically everywhere that I would work towards R with my H had he done the same thing) doesn't mean he had more legitimate reasoning than any of us.

And, honestly, you don't know that he didn't just desire to sleep with someone else and saw an opportunity. He is now a WS, and posting in the WS community. I will ask him to examine himself the same way any other WS should examine themselves.

I do that not really for his wife, but for him. At the end of the day if he wants this marriage, then he is going to have to go through some of the same processes to help his wife heal as well. Just because she did it first doesn't mean he hasn't hurt her too. Cheating is just never going to fix what's broken.

So, while I appreciate your point, I was not being disingenuous. I was trying to help him to see that just because he felt he had a free pass doesn't do diddly for rebuilding his marriage. (Which by the way, if he doesn't want that's fine too)

[This message edited by hikingout at 9:45 AM, November 5th (Tuesday)]

I've read your other posts and it seems you have maybe always wanted to stray from your marriage (maybe you even have before) and are using this as a justification to do whatever you want. Of course, only my opinion but I really think you need intensive IC. The thing about cheaters that I never understood is why they don't just not get married or not be in a committed relationship. Have sex with whoever you want however often you want and don't commit to anyone. Then no one would ever question your character and morals.