SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Good point Kiba. Although I wouldn't say my WW was in love with the OM, she did have strong feelings for him. I think she did even after dday 1.

She sent him a video of her masterbating about 6 months before dday. I asked her why. She said because he was out of town and was sexting her and he asked, and she complied.

My response was "so he needed some easy porn to beat off to". You could almost see the air leave the room when I said that. She hadn't thought of it that way. It was clear as day to me!!

When we discussed all their interactions, and I provided a Male's interpretation, it all became clear to her, she was an easy mark. Not easy for me to say that about my wife, but its reality.

So, with how your BH dealt with the OM, how he discarded you very easily and the shock of dday, I can understand not having those loving feelings anymore.

LD, I believe you love your BH, I truly do. I think you are a lot like my WW. Mine said/says all the right things but when it comes to taking action, it doesnt resonate. My WW also TT'd me for a long time, all because she wanted to spare my feelings. I believe this is part of it. The other part is she was terrified to look objectively at herself like I was able to. She couldn't accept that she acted this way. She even thought (pre-dday, and after the A was over) she could be friends with the AP. Her thoughts on this were that if they became friends, it wasn't all for nothing and some good would come of it......

So what happens if you stay together and life gets somewhat complacent? If you get complacent? If you lose this awareness again in the humdrum events of normal daily married life?

What steps have/will you put in place to prevent this happening again? What practical steps have you implemented to strengthen your boundaries?

I will remember what I did. I will remember what I put him through. I will remember him telling me how much he loves. I will remember that he loves me. I will remember to keep our communication open. I will remember to not be afraid to share what I'm feeling with him.

While you hate the OM you are showing some unappreciated emotions for him (as far as your husband is concerned).

Maybe I don't understand. What unappreciated emotions am I showing for the om?

During the affair were you not cold and indifferent toward your husband?

No, I wasn't. I never denied sex, I initiated sex, I initiated touching or kissing just whenever.

did you ever talk about what it would be like if you to were able to be together as a couple or what having a child together would be like?

Did you ever ask yourself to what would have happened if OM were not a jobless, serial cheating player who got beat down by your husband? What if he had bested your husband in that fight?

I never asked myself that because I didn't want to leave my husband. If the om actually tried fighting, I'm fairly certain that I would have tried to hit him as well. I was pulling them apart because I didn't want someone calling the cops and my husband possibly get arrested.

what work are you doing, specifically, to be a safe partner? What actions are you taking now, as opposed

I have typed out a plan of things that I will be doing to be a safe partner. At work, I won't have any make teachers or parents alone in my room. I'll meet them in the office for a meeting if one is needed. I won't be giving any men a ride to and from anywhere. I won't be alone with another man. If I'm with other people and all of a sudden all of the women leave, there goes myself too. I installed the family tracker app and sent him the link to join and check whenever he feel that he needs to. Even though he told me I don't have to check in with him, I still will be. I don't ever go out with groups of people, but should that happen then the same rules apply as above. I won't let myself cross those boundaries again. Whether he chooses me or not, I won't cross those boundaries.

I sent an email to the tester because it was in the early morning. He quickly responded, and I called him on my break. He only does them during the day, so we would both have to take off. That will be up to my husband. I have to drop my phone off at the recovery place for two days so they can run a diagnostic test to see if they can pull up anything. If they determine that they can, they then have to send my phone off for a week to some place. I contacted two more testers today. One is calling me back some time tonight he said, and the other never answered. Am I nervous that I might fail? Absolutely, but not because of the questions, because of my nerves. I know me. My heart rate will be fast, my breathing will be too. So yes, I'm nervous, but I will take one since that's what he needs.

I am sorry I blew up before. My brain had enough of it. I know my words and lack of action are triggers for some. I appreciate you still coming on to give your advice. I think I am done responding for the evening. I need to focus on what I can do at home.

[This message edited by LifeDestroyer at 5:07 PM, September 23rd (Monday)]

Everyone is nervous when they take a polygraph. Even people who have no reason to be. A reputable administrator can tell the difference.

Have you done a factory reset on your phone since dday? Did you do one before dday?

No, I didn't do a reset at all. The guy asked me that too. He said it will still be a small chance to get them since my phone has been in use. That's what the diagnostic test is for.

Jameson1977

When we discussed all their interactions, and I provided a Male's interpretation, it all became clear to her, she was an easy mark. Not easy for me to say that about my wife, but its reality.

This was something that was extremely eye opening for me. Once I gained the courage and sit with my BH and give him every detail, physical and emotional, he was able to provide a ton of feedback. I was stuck on this idea of who my AP was as a person based on knowing him a decade ago. The reality is, my AP was never the person I thought he was. I looked at him through rose colored glasses based on my past with him. I was able to not only talk with my BH about the affair, but also about my past with AP. My BH has had lots of experiences in his life. Before we were ever together, he struggled with addiction. He has been sober for 15ish years. He was able to see a ton of red flags I never noticed. I was stupid and naive. If you don’t see someone doing bad things, they must not be doing them.....right? I feel so stupid for ever trusting my AP. I realized literally everything I believed about him was a lie. As I told about every detail, even before I met my husband, he was able to give 100% genuine, logical feedback. Things I had missed in the past and during my affair.

To be honest, his feedback was so enlightening and helpful for me. It was hard to talk about. It was hard to give all the shameful and painful details. In the moment, all I wanted to do was disappear. Instead I pushed through. He helped me see things from a different perspective. At this point, I already was feeling nothing but hate for my AP. Talking to my BH helped me to see that everything I believed to be true about my AP was a lie. He helped me see facts I might have never noticed. Now I feel more comfortable knowing that I can talk to him about every single detail and we can attempt to heal together.

That's good to hear LD. When my WW finally was able to simply discuss facts without blubbering and shaking, it helped me a lot, not only to be able to have a coherent conversation, but we were able to discuss things "matter of fact" like, and it was easier for me to digest.

This is a long, long road. I hit depression at 2 months, and anger at 6 months, and self destructive behavior from dday to about 9 months out.

All I can say is for the love of God, be honest and pro-active. What I would have given if my wife had once brought up anything about her A's that she hadn't already told me.

Can I ask what do you attribute the complete drop in feelings for OM and the reigniting of feelings for your BH to be? Your simple answer that the feelings for OM were not real are not bored out by how intense your affair was

I am hoping to be able to bring some clarity to the “light switch” phenomena. I understand it well (at least from my own perspective). I am hoping that I can not only help LD with this, but some BS’s that are asking her about it.

My affair was intense. Full of “I love you’s“ and I was making future plans with the MOM. My affair would be considered an exit affair. The first 48 hours following a very public DDay was devastating. We were all in shock, but it started to surface just how serious this all was. Within that 48 hours, I left my husband, made plans with the OM, and then was promptly dumped by him because he and his wife decided to work things out. I was left alone and scared. My husband had no intention of letting me come back home, but my MIL asked him to give me a chance. He laid down some pretty intense ground rules and we went from there.

I haven’t seen or talked to the OM since then. I have never looked back. I’ve never “pined” for him or had warm fuzzy feelings for him. I went through a brief time of anger and victim hood in regards to him. Today I feel I am mostly indifferent, except for the part that is still angry that he would also hurt my husband.

In order for me to be able to have justified my affair, a lot of factors had to align just right. There had to be that “perfect storm” in order for me to twist truths and cross lines I never would have thought myself capable. On DDay and the hours following, a lot of what was holding my fantasy together just completely fell apart. In the weeks, months following, as we started to go over things, it became clear how sleazy our actions were. My BH had to make the point to me that I allowed behavior from him and returned it, as well that I would never accept from any other person.

My husband’s pain and my growing remorse made it easy to keep that switch flipped towards my husband. I honestly had no idea how much he would hurt from my betrayal. I had convinced myself that he would be relieved to be rid of me. I had convinced myself that he had never truly loved me. I have never been so wrong in all of my life and had I been in a place where I could hear him and believe him, I wouldn’t be here.

So yes, I was willing to give it all away and then just like that, I wasn’t. I’m inclined to believe that a switch flipped quickly is more hopeful than one that isn’t. To me it seems a good sign that the fantasy is over.

I know it’s hard to trust. That’s where “the work” comes in. Digging deep and finding the why’s. Working on making positive changes and communicating.

Change doesn’t happen overnight, but perspective can rapidly push you in the right direction.

Stop sign added.

So yes, I was willing to give it all away and then just like that, I wasn’t. I’m inclined to believe that a switch flipped quickly is more hopeful than one that isn’t. To me it seems a good sign that the fantasy is over.

I agree WOES, I have mentioned a flip of the switch before and I think you explained it as well as anyone could.

I honestly had no idea how much he would hurt from my betrayal. I had convinced myself that he would be relieved to be rid of me. I had convinced myself that he had never truly loved me. I have never been so wrong in all of my life..

I think what you said here is accurate for me too. It's been mentioned here lately "how could you not know?" I expected anger, I expected rage, and I expected the real possibility of a divorce (one that would be welcomed). What I didn't expect was the trauma, but I saw it, day one. And yeah just like that a switch flipped and I realized just how wrong I was. It's hard to understand this as a BS, I so get that, it's hard to explain this too. Of course it doesn't make sense when our actions previously said the complete opposite, of course our BSs can't understand the rationalizations and justification we so convinced ourselves of. Yeah we mindfucked ourselves before we mindfucked our BSs.

perspective can rapidly push you in the right direction.

Yep.

LD, I think this is the first time I've posted on your thread (gosh what more could I add!) but I think the stop sign was a good idea. I posted my very first post here without a SS too and it was invaluable. But I think a big difference was that my BH wasn't posting as well. It complicates things, it's so easy to go back and forth and comment on what the other is saying. While us WS can do the same I think you'll find we will be more attuned and want to help you, your struggles, your fears. Our BSs mean well and want to help you too, in fact I think they have given you a perspective that none of us could articulate. But it doesn't come from a place we know all too well, the more in depth WS mentality that we understand and can pull you out of.

So, if you mean it and your lies are done, and you are starting from the very beginning with a new foundation ready to be poured with your best put forth, let us know what we can do, where you need help.

Hi LD. I'm gonna be honest, I have not been following this thread. I've read the 1st page and the last 2, but not much in between. I have not read your BS thread nor know his handle. But it is obvious to me that you want to be better even though you have made a ton of seemingly unforgivable mistakes, and keep making them when I'm sure you don't want to be.

I would like to help in any way I can, but this is all very fresh for me. I have only just come completely clean after 2+ years of hiding important details, so I may not be the right kind of help. BSR's response/reaction to your thread spoke to me, as many of her posts do. I hope it speaks to you too, and if it doesn't at first, listen again harder, because that is the kind of rawness that can help if you let it.

I will say that I have made unfathomable mistakes, and I made them over and over knowing I was fucking everything up while simultaneously thinking it was the right thing to do. There were many factors at play, but at the end of the day I am 100% responsible for my actions. And 2+ years of hiding leaves a lot to be held accountable for. No amount of mental illness, stress, grief, or insecurity makes the damage I created any less. Nor does it for any of us.

There seems to be a lot of insinuations that you are still hiding important things from your BS. I have no opinion on that matter other than to say if you are, find the courage to tell him the truth. I promise whatever the outcome it will be worth it for your own sense of self. And if you have told the truth, do everything you can possibly think of to prove it to him, and do so with the understanding it might take him years before he can even think about trusting anything you say.

If you are honest and show consistency in the face of rejection, it goes a long way in helping to show you can be a safe place again. At least that is what I read here, and these warriors who have been through the fire on either side know what they are talking about. All you have to do is open yourself up and listen. Don't wait years for it to sink in. Don't be like me. Listen and act now.

Edited to remove detail per guidelines. Noted. Oops and sorry.

[This message edited by FearfulAvoidance at 5:14 PM, September 25th (Wednesday)]

Not to be a TJ but if you got a PM she probably didn’t want to discuss out on a forum. Understand if you can’t do PMs, then don’t. but seems unkind to bring out publicly if someone reached out in vulnerability privately.

My husband’s pain and my growing remorse made it easy to keep that switch flipped towards my husband. I honestly had no idea how much he would hurt from my betrayal. I had convinced myself that he would be relieved to be rid of me. I had convinced myself that he had never truly loved me. I have never been so wrong in all of my life and had I been in a place where I could hear him and believe him, I wouldn’t be here.

Yes, yes, yes. Thank you for helping me out into words how the flip switched. I don't know if I thought he would be relieved to be rid of me, but I had convinced myself that he was no longer in love with me.

I expected anger, I expected rage, and I expected the real possibility of a divorce (one that would be welcomed). What I didn't expect was the trauma, but I saw it, day one. And yeah just like that a switch flipped and I realized just how wrong I was.

Yes again. When he found out, I feared and I expected him to have pure anger, rage, and disgust. I wasn't expecting the trauma. I have never seen infidelity. I didn't realize that it is a trauma, that the betrayers develop PTSD from it. Again, you clearly described the light switch. Seeing him, hearing him, I was completely wrong on everything I thought.

This took me a while to wrap my head around fully. When I was foggy I thought I had loved them both. It didn't take long to realize I was using AP and my BS both, and I had been manipulating everybody for 6 months. But I maintained that I never stopped loving BS, even though I was explicitly telling her the opposite during my A. That it was my love for her that kept me holding on to us while I was in full blown sabotage mode. And that after real Dday, I loved her in a way that I hadn't understood could exist.

This wasn't what I was referring too in my pm, but this also rang true for me. Along with, I don't know what love really is or how I love. I'm still trying to figure that out because clearly my kind of love was wrong.

Justsomelady, thank you. PMs should be private, but understand that Fearful is just trying to help and respecting her boundaries with not pming other women. She had made a comment on someone's thread about how Wellbutrin changed her, and not for the better. I too am on that, and it definitely changed me. It left me feeling "meh whatever, I don't care, let it go, it happens it happens" kind of mood while taking it. It has also helped me with my anxiety/depression some. Since dday, I haven't been taking it everyday.

LD, thank you for taking my post in stride. Yes, PMs should be private. I have only received 2 and my wife and I are still figuring out how to navigate them. Considering my A was entirely made up of secret messages discusssing "vulnerable" things, it seems prudent to just not engage in anything outside of a public sphere. I hope that I did not offend you or make you feel violated by posting. I appreciate you responding candidly and understanding my desire to provide help considering you reached out to me.

Coming to the realization that you don't understand love is a big one. It took me over 2 years to admit to myself that my love was transactional, and about how it fed me. I am still peeling back the layers on that for myself so I wish you luck as you embark on that journey. The only thing I can say for certain about any of this is that when you think you've figured it out, dig deeper, cause it is only the first layer.

As to the welbutrin I want to caution against changing your prescribed dose without consulting your Dr. Speaking from my own experience, every time I adjusted my meds on my own the consequences were never good. Chemical withdrawal is a real thing.

Also with the meds, do your best to stay away from the trap of them being one of your whys. Understanding that they MAY have influenced thoughts or behavior is good, but by no means are they a why. Again, just speaking from my own experience of trying to navigate life after the bomb that is Dday.

Fearful, I completely understand with the PMs. Some guy asked me in one if he could call me so he could ask me questions about his wife. That was a big fat nope. He never replied again.

PRIVATE MESSAGE FEATURE: Please do not publicly post Private Messages that you've received. Also, do not share your Private Messages with other members unless you've received permission from the original sender. Public PM requests/announcements are not permitted on the forums.

Sorry WOE

My husband lost his mom this past Sunday. She lives in a different state, and unfortunately he wasn't able to be there. He is flying out there for the memorial. Him and sister will get to have each other for support. His sister has been caring for their mom for over 10 years. He was thinking about bringing our daughter with him, but the flight he is taking gets in after midnight. I wish we could be there with him for support. He drove from OK to NY for my when my mom passed away. He was there for me.

I’m so sorry to hear about his mom’s passing. Can you take your daughter there yourself so she can participate with family after the memorial? She would bring the family so much joy I am sure. Did he not want you to attend the memorial yourself?

I asked him if we could go. He doesn't feel me going would be a good idea. He doesn't know if I can ever give him support. How does the person who abused you, also be a person that can support you? I completely understand that. I will be here supporting him whether he is ready to accept it or not. He was there for me.

Understandable. One thing you could offer is to stay separately and watch your daughter, drop her off when he wants her with him and take her off his hands when he needs you to, making yourself scarce otherwise? He may not be up for it but worth asking.

Really sorry y’all are going through that.

[This message edited by Justsomelady at 7:09 AM, October 1st (Tuesday)]