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Setup some facetime or other video call schedules to help him while he is away. It will show him you want him to still be part of the family while he is away.

Just go. Bring your daughter. Stay in the background, but be available for him. It will show you care.

I was planning on doing FaceTime, if nothing else then for him to see our daughter.

NotSureAboutIt, I want to. I really do. I know I will get called out for thinking for him, but I truly think it will anger him even more if I go. I'm ready to buy the tickets and write up sub plans.

WS Only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 2:47 PM, October 1st (Tuesday)]

We had an intense, for me, conversation last night. Now, I've been up since 3:30 just replaying his words in my head. Not good words either, just moving across like on a digital billboard. Scrolling through my head on repeat. School should be fun today 😣

Did he blame you for not supporting him enough during his grieving?

He has told me he doesn't want my support. He said I wasn't there for him in May when he went up there and had to put his mom on hospice.

He started talking about divorce again. He is leaning that way. 1.5 feet out the door he said. He said he feels himself detaching again and if that keeps happening then he will divorce. I asked him if he is doing it himself, he said no it is just happening. I told him I was hoping we could be more than cordial co-parents when around our daughter. Fake it around her so she sees that her mommy and daddy still get along. I picture him distant and cold when we are around her. He took that as if I was asking to be buddy buddy. He firmly stated multiple times that he will be cutting me out of his life, running away from me. He will stand by me at her "games," but that's it. I got very emotional and upset by that. He took it as me being selfish, didn't believe me when I said I want that for our daughter not me. I don't expect us to be friends, at least not right away, maybe years down the road.

It fucking sucked hearing all of that. How clear he made it that when we divorce, we will only be interacting (not sure I would even call it that) when our kid has a program basically. He said we will never be sharing any birthdays or holidays. And that hurt. I have already screwed up my kids life by splitting up her parents, now she can't even have them in the same room on those special days. So yes I was really hoping we could do that at least for her. It looks like if/when we divorce he will be 99% out of my life. And that fucking sucks.

If that's me being selfish, then I'll accept that. He has been in my life for 17 years, and now he will be gone because of me.

I am so sorry LD. That is terrible. I can only send you strength and hope that there is some way he will have a change of heart. He is certainly in the deep throes of grief.

Let's break down what you're asking for, so maybe you can see why it's such a problem. You want him to live a lie for the sake of appearances. That's what your marriage was during your A -- a lie for the sake of appearances. "Happy family" was an act you played, an attempt to avoid consequences by keeping him in the dark. And now you're hurt that he isn't willing to do that to your daughter -- lead her on to think that everything is fine, because it's happier and easier for everyone that way. "Everyone" in this case is principally you, at his expense. Again, just like the A.

We talk a lot about letting go of the outcome as a critical point in achieving remorse. Your scenario of celebrating everything together shows that you still can't accept that possibility. Gently, if you divorce, your daughter's celebrations with her father are likely to include your XH's new partner. She probably will have plans that don't involve spending every holiday with her boyfriend/husband's ex-wife.

I'm not saying that to be unnecessarily cruel. I'm being necessarily cruel. You're still negotiating a future that puts what you want ahead of what he needs. That does nothing to reassure him that you've achieved the true remorse of putting his best interest ahead of your own. You don't grasp yet that authenticity may be more painful, but it's always better in the long run than avoidance and pretense.

Absolutely, the two of you should strive to be cordial co-parents. But faking more is not a fair or remorseful ask.

You are deeply hurt and sorry, I can feel it from your latest post. But, while he was mourning the death of his mother and marriage, you discussed your vision of the future custody arrangements with him. He must think you were being selfish and not emphatising.

Please don’t take all of his words face value re divorce/relationship post divorce and get defensive/annoyed. He’ll change his mind 100 times more about divorce/reconciliation while he is on the roller coaster. Please keep standing by him.

I know it’s off topic now but did he want another baby? Were you guys discussing expanding the family before affair or were you happy to have a small family?

[This message edited by Lifeitself at 5:25 AM, October 4th (Friday)]

Everything I say and do is selfish. It doesn't seem like that in my head when I'm saying or doing it, but it ends up being. I don't know how to stop that.

Yes, after hearing him, I realized what I was asking was ridiculous. I was just seeing protecting my kids happiness because I know all of this change is due to me. I wasn't seeing his feelings in it, just hers.

I am fully aware that his future girlfriend/wife would be there, I still wanted us to try to have joint celebrations. I'm living in the fantasy world where that happens with couples. When I said it, it wasn't to make me happy. I will feel like complete shit whenever I have to see him with another woman. Even though I want him to be happy, it will suck big time.

I always wanted more kids. I did struggle with our daughter, I still do. He didn't want anymore. He said he was selfish and didn't want to share his time anymore. He then decided he wanted a vasectomy. I was super angry and hurt at first, but then I realized that I shouldn't have anymore kids. I have a hard enough time with one, I would be awful to two. I went to his side and went with him to get it done. That's why he thinks I'll be pregnant within a year of getting divorced. While I am fully aware that I should NOT have anymore kids.

I am trying not to be selfish, but it isn't working out. I seriously have discussions in my head to figure out if what I'm going to say/do is selfish, how it might be perceived as that, what do I need to change, how do I change it, and it still comes out selfish. It's not something that I enjoy.

Maybe it would help to ask yourself not if it's selfish, but if it's avoidant.

The thing about wayward thinking is that we're really good at manipulating shades of gray. There's always some truth in what we say in order to steer things the way we want them to go. It would, in fact, be better for your daughter if her parents are able to achieve genuine reconciliation and build a healthy marriage. If that's not possible, it's still better for her if they get along well than if they don't. So it's easy to do a selfishness audit and say, "Okay, I'm thinking of my child and trying not to hurt her more than I already have."

But the other question, the real question, is "What problems will this plan solve for me? What will I not have to face in this scenario that I'm not ready to face?" And the answer to that question is where the work lies.

I'm not holy here. I just finished a post in another thread where I recounted how, after D-Day, I refused to go NC with OM. I told myself that it was because he had been my friend and I was worried about him. This was true. It also gave me a cover story to avoid facing how addicted I was to the ego kibbles of OM pining for me. I saw myself as a caring person, trying to undo the damage my A had caused, while in reality, I was actively perpetuating it. I focused on anything that would justify my refusal to face the consequences, especially the consequences to my poor BH.

It's not true that you're only making bad decisions. I think that listening to Neanderthal about staying home from his mother's funeral was a good call. It's painful and awkward and could raise a lot of questions that paint you in a bad light, whether he gives an honest explanation of your absence or refuses to explain. You must have wanted to avoid that by appearing at his side, even as your desire to support him is genuine. I think following him as a grand gesture of love would have sent the opposite message, one where you continue to know what's "best" for him. You didn't do that. You stayed even though you desperately wanted to go.

Give yourself credit for the good calls. But seriously, you have to look at the hidden agenda of every interaction with your BH the way you did with that one. The easy explanation will not be the only explanation, and it will never be the avoidant one.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 6:53 AM, October 4th (Friday)]

I always wanted more kids. I did struggle with our daughter, I still do. He didn't want anymore. He said he was selfish and didn't want to share his time anymore. He then decided he wanted a vasectomy. I was super angry and hurt at first, but then I realized that I shouldn't have anymore kids. I have a hard enough time with one, I would be awful to two. I went to his side and went with him to get it done.

Oh this is so sad. Just to summarise what I interpreted: you wanted more kids, he didn’t want more kids. You was hurt, he still went ahead and got the vasectomy, you had no choice but to accept it because you loved him. you explained why but IMO having a vasectomy with one kid and at a relatively young age (from your and your H’s threads I presume you guys are around 34-36) is a radical decision as it is most probably irrevocable. This might even have subconsciously built a crack in your relationship.

At first I found it weird and hasty when I read about your visits to your AP with your kid, getting your and his kids together. But now in light of this information, this is what my crazy mind tells me: you resented your H’s choice and never got over it. you met your AP, and if he talked about having mode kids, it might have triggered your motherly instinct and expanded the crack. It might have also encouraged your subconscious to blend the kids aka have a bigger family. This was what you craved for.

You may think I’m talking BS but again this is how I see it with a little bit imagination.

This is a very sad, long and complicated story and my prayers are with you guys!

[This message edited by Lifeitself at 1:53 AM, October 5th (Saturday)]

No, he went through with the surgery after asking me several times if I was ok with it. I went through PPD with our daughter, and never received help for it. I was too ashamed to admit it. It stayed with me, probably still with me. I know I am not capable mentally or emotionally to have another child.

All weekend I've just wanted to talk to him. I don't even know what to say, but I know I want to talk to him. If the a didn't happen and for some reason I couldn't be there with him, I would be texting funny things or intimate things to break the sad moments. That's something he would have done as well. But now, I know that wouldn't be helpful. He will be on my mind all day tomorrow, especially in the evening during the service. My mom's felt like it went on forever. U hope that doesn't happen for him tomorrow night.

Did he tell you he didn't want to hear from you at all, in any way? Or did he just say he didn't want you to go with him?

If it's the latter, I don't think it's wrong to send a simple text letting him know that you will be thinking of him and are here if there is anything he needs from you. You might get a biting response back, you might get nothing, but making yourself vulnerable to possible rejection with a short, compassionate check-in leaves the door open if he changes his mind.

If it was the former, and he said he really does not want to hear a word from you, I think you respect his wishes and remain silent. You could, however, journal about what you're feeling, in case he decides to try for R at some point in the future and wants to know what you were thinking about when he was away.

No, he didn't say to not contact him. I have been texting, but just little chit chat. He doesn't always respond. I know he needs to focus on his grieving. I don't want to take anymore away from that with my texts.

I am emotionally stunted.

As a kid, I never dealt with my true feelings about any of the crap that happened. When my parents fought, I would blame my dad just like my mom did, or I would blame my mom for putting me in the middle. I'm pretty sure I got my way all of the time because she felt bad.

It took about 5 years for me to tell anyone about what my unlce did to me, and that didn't work out like I thought it would. I didn't expect my mom to not believe me and rugsweep it.

When I was 16 I had a destructive boyfriend who kept me a secret because I wasn't hot enough. He used me in every possible way, and I let him because it kept him around. I then became the bg or og, however you want to look at it. Again, I took it because it kept him in my life. I never spoke to anyone about I felt. I told him how it made me feel to be kept a secret, but then he would do his slick smile and feed me some bullshit that made it ok.

Then I met my husband our senior year, and all of that other shit didn't matter. I finally grew a pair and told the people that hurt me how they fucked me up. I told that exboyfriend to get out of my life, I found someone who actually wants to be with me for me. I told my mom what it felt like when she rugswept my past, she still didn't change that (brought it up again before she died and she still denied it, that was a lost cause for me). I finally told my dad that I didn't care if he was going to drink himself to death, I was done caring and trying to get him to quit. He was the only one who actually took my words to heart and did something. The next day he went to rehab and hasn't had a drink in over 15 years.

But the damage was done I guess. I knew how to avoid things. I knew how to manipulate to get what I wanted. I knew how to make people feel bad. I knew how to rugsweep. I knew how to give in so I could keep people around. I shut down or would act like everything was good just to avoid conflict.

I'm 35 on the outside, but I'm pretty sure I'm still a kid on the inside with my feelings.

LD - I’m 59 going on 15 sometimes.

You have a choice - an opportunity. You can keep on keeping on. Rug sweep. Minimize. Hope it all goes away.

Or you can decide to work on becoming the person you want to be. No , it’s not easy. No, it does not happen over night. But it will not happen until you decide to do your best to make it happen. My DDay was 30 years ago. We remarried 25 years ago. I really finally started to face my demons three years ago. It brought back so much guilt and shame and FOO issues and self loathing and more guilt. But our marriage is better than it has ever been. I have a long way to go. A long way. I wish I had never cheated. I wish I had faced up to my faults decades ago. But I am so glad I finally looked in the mirror and decided that I really did not like the person I saw looking back at me. It is never too late. You are never too far gone. Good luck. God speed.

Hi LD, do you have a plan for dealing with that? It’s one thing to notice (and it’s good, and necessary to notice). But I think once you notice a limitation it moves from being a reason to being an excuse.

Do you want ideas? I have in some ways a similar issue - no emotional range in my household growing up- and I two ideas for you. First, when I don’t know what I’m feeling, I give it the label “confused.” That’s a start and I can usually move from there to a more specific emotion. Second, there is interesting research on preschool kids who have not had exposure to math. Their teachers were told to simply use number words as much as possible - instead of saying can’t you get me the cups? They say can you get me the THREE cups. It’s *super* effective for little kids and math. So I have done some very poor personal social science and extrapolated that to adult emotional literacy :) instead of thinking that music is sad, I’ll think that music is wistful, or longing, or whatever. Labeling how I feel at random points in the day. Thinking about how people feel in what I’m reading. Bringing in emotion words all the time. Who knows if it works? It can’t hurt.

Here’s a bonus third idea - get one of those face/emotion posters for your house, and use it with your daughter. If you have trouble with emotions, she might also, and it couldn’t hurt to talk about the different emotions shown on the poster - have you ever felt like that and when? How does the character in the book we are reading feel? Have puppets act out differ t emotions and tell stories about how they got there. Talk about how do you feel this morning? Give her a piece of painters tape to put on the emotion she feels at the moment. And so on. It might help both of you. Do you know the posters I’m talking about? You can download them.