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My husband has said it multiple times that I was able to flip the switch on the om, I can flip the switch on him too. What I keep saying is, I was able to flip the switch on the om because I wasn't truly in love with him. That is how I was able to not have feelings him once the affair was discovered. I will not flip the switch on my husband because I am in love with him. Yea I know, that's bullshit since I betrayed him. I know that I am in love with my husband. I know that I want to spend the rest of my life with him. I know that I would give up everything if meant I could be his wife again. I know that I have completely annihilated his heart/mind/world and want nothing more than to take it on myself. I know that I have continued to be selfish and afraid. I know all of that, and yet I still know that I am in love with my husband. I know that i won't allow myself to cross those boundaries again. I know that I am not settling for my husband. If he stayed, he would be settling for me. I get that none of my words have not made any sense. Welcome to the inside of my head. My affair hasn't made sense to me. How I could have done these things to my husband hasn't made sense to me. How I could be ok with such intense lying doesn't make sense to me. How my husband still felt love me for doesn't make sense to me.

I think that the wayward forum comes with a strong element of doubt by its very nature, but if it is going to do any good for anyone, we have to give waywards some trust and credit on the subject of wanting to change themselves and not repeat actions that have caused damage to themselves and to others.

Okay, LD. It sounds like there is a lot for you to explore in IC, so that you can define, clarify, and manage the processes that enabled you to cross boundaries and conduct the affair.

I hope you can see that trying to manage situations by withholding information can make a situation worse, and that you can find a way to be more open and honest, beginning with yourself, and then with others. IC can help with that. It may be a habitual thing from your past, or a self-defence mechanism, but it can look manipulative, and is unfair to people close to you who need you to be completely open with them.

It may be hard for you to let your guard down, and stop filtering your communication, but that can be changed, and your life will be improved if you can make that change.

I know that I am not settling for my husband. If he stayed, he would be settling for me.

I think that self-worth and self-image has been a big issue for both of you as individuals in your relationship and marriage, and I hope that both of you will be able to move away from seeing yourselves as 'damaged goods' that the other person has to compromise their standards to remain married to.

That dynamic is not healthy for either of you, and - God forbid - if you end up seeing yourself in a negative way, you will be open to a man coming along and turning your head with praise and positive compliments.

What would be a good joint goal for you and your husband is for both of you to develop a better sense of self-worth, to identify and acknowledge your 'demons', and to protect one another from them by managing/controlling them.

No-one is perfect, so it follows that relationships occur between imperfect people. What makes the difference between a good and a bad relationship is how well the people within them manage their imperfections and improve them wherever possible.

I think that good outlook for your way forward would not be to try to go back to how things were, but to build something new and better than it was. And the basis of that is both of you working on yourselves.

I think that every problem that his had a negative impact on your marriage can be improved or eliminated if you both commit to doing the required work. Given that both of you want to stay together, it has to be worth making that effort, doesn't it?

manage situations by withholding information can make a situation worse, and that you can find a way to be more open and honest, beginning with yourself, and then with others. IC can help with that. It may be a habitual thing from your past, or a self-defence mechanism, but it can look manipulative, and is unfair to people close to you who need you to be completely open with them

It is a habitual thing from my past and a self-defense mechanism. I had to keep a lot of things quiet in my past because I didn't want people to know the shit that happened and then with my uncle he gave me the line "no one will believe you." So, I have always kept things. I became an expert at putting on a fake face to the world and acting like everything is peachy. I also didn't always want people's sympathy. I didn't want people to look down on me.

When he first started saying that if he stayed he would be settling for me, I will admit that I was super pissed at him. I thought "you would be settling for me? What the fuck? I may have done this shit, but I am still worth loving. I am still good looking. I am still a good person." Then I started to realize that he would be settling for me because he could easily find someone who hasn't hurt him so badly. He could easily find a woman who deserves his loves and can give him the love that he deserves right away without having to fix herself. He would be settling for second best.

I never thought we were perfect people. We were never the best looking couple, or the couple with amazing rich jobs, or the fit/active couple, or the 24/7 lovey dovey couple. We were us. We both aged beautifully. Not to toot our own horns, but we both got hotter the older we got. He started losing weight, me being competitive, I couldn't let him be the only one so I started too. We both stopped. I then started, and he wanted to lose again. We both have jobs, his pays a lot more. He didn't have to work tons of doubles like his buddies did to ensure they had everything. He always made sure we had what we needed or wanted. We were able to purchase a home in our 20s and not have to accumulate tons of credit card debt. I never wanted the nonstop lovey dovey stuff, but that we absolutely could have done better on, both of us.

We absolutely have things to work, hopefully we will have that chance. The work, the effort, the trying is absolutely worth it.

LD,

This...

It is a habitual thing from my past and a self-defense mechanism. I had to keep a lot of things quiet in my past because I didn't want people to know the shit that happened and then with my uncle he gave me the line "no one will believe you." So, I have always kept things. I became an expert at putting on a fake face to the world and acting like everything is peachy. I also didn't always want people's sympathy. I didn't want people to look down on me.

...suggests that for a lot of your life, you have talked to yourself, rather than to other people.

I want to tell you that you no longer have to do that, because you have a husband who loves you, and who will listen to you.

You and your husband can become a mutually supportive team if you open up and stop trying to get through life by putting on a show for an audience. Doing that is not healthy for you, because it casts you as an actress, rather than a human being.

Start living authentically. Just be you. No show, no performance, no card tricks.

As much as you have f'ed up, and as much as you have battered him emotionally, you have a human being in your life who loves you, and who wants to support you, but who has no faith that you feel the same way about him.

Some people spend their whole lives looking for another person who feels that way about them, and they do not find one.

You have one.

Think about that.

There are thousands - actually millions - of men who will sweet talk you and pay you every compliment possible to get sex from you. Most women would say that they know and understand that, and yet they have affairs thinking that their affair partners idolize them, rather than thinking they are just pleased to have found a convenient local source of cost-free sex.

However, how many men will come and visit you every day in hospital when you are getting over an operation, or struggling with cancer?

That is the true proof of what a man thinks of you.

And if you think about it for even a minute, I am sure that you will see that your husband would be there for you through thick and thin, whereas your affair partner would want you to give him a call when you are out of hospital and in a position to start providing the free sex again.

I can tell you that if you heard what men say to other men about married woman they are having affairs with, you would not have another affair for as long as you live. Their attitude is so callous, so cold, so exploitative.

Listening to the male affair partners I have met in real life has always made me feel deeply ashamed of being a man, because they really are total and utter pieces of Sh*t with no respect for any other human being.

You might think that you are sending photos and videos to only the man who has sweet-talked you into sending them, but I have actually been shown that kind of stuff by a couple of absolute scumbags, and it made me feel like humanity has no hope. I felt like crying because the women did that, and also because the guys saw nothing wrong in sharing the stuff and laughing about it.

LD, you know that your husband would be by your bedside if you were in hospital. Think about that. Value that. Treat that commitment with the respect that it deserves.

There are any number of men who will want to use you, but considerably less who will spoon-feed you if you are ill.

Think about what matters to you, and what is genuine, versus what is bullsh*t.

Love, praise, flattery, ego kibbles, sexual power, is not getting some random guy to screw you. It is being a woman that a man will visit in hospital, when he is not getting sex as a reward.

And for you, there is one man in the world who would do that for you.

So are you going to treat him with the value that he deserves, or go looking for compliments from guys who think you are a good place to deposit bodily fluids without a financial outlay?

Of all the men currently breathing on the planet, your husband loves you.

He is unique.

He is special.

He really, truly loves you.

Are you going to treat him with the respect that he deserves?

I hope that you will.

[This message edited by M1965 at 3:26 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)]

And for you, there is one man in the world who would do that for you.

I understand LD wants to stay with her husband, but I don’t see the value in basically telling her that if they do end up divorced, she’ll never find anyone else who actually loves her. There are billions of people in the world, hundreds of millions in the US, and hundreds or thousands a person will come across in the course of their life—there is not JUST ONE who will truly care about any of us.

I want him to have faith that I can be the person that can love him like he deserves, that can support him like he deserves, that can make him happy like he deserves.

I know without a doubt that he would be my bedside if I ever got sick, that he would spoon feed me and even change my bedpan. I actually think he still would even if we divorced, because I know I would be there. We have spent 17 years together. Half of our lives, our whole adult lives together, and I threw that away.

I don't want to have an affair again. I don't want to cross those boundaries again. I don't want to allow myself to become vulnerable like that again. I want to communicate with my husband. I want him to know what I may feel, and I want to know what he may feel. I don't want to shut down and run away again. I am going to value him no matter what may happen with us.

My husband absolutely is unique and special because after ripping his heart out, he still called me the love of his life. He wants to be with me but he is afraid. He is afraid of me. My husband is afraid of me. I told him that I will show him every day that he has nothing to be afraid no matter what happens.

I want to take the pain away that I have caused in him. I know there are some who don't believe me, but I also know that there are some who can believe me because they feel the same about the one they betrayed.

Darkness, I didn't take his words as meaning that I can never be loved again if we divorce. He was pointing out that I have exactly what every person wants standing right in front of me, someone who truly loves them, and that I have two choices. Run and lose that or stay and do everything possible to hold on to it forever while giving my husband the same.

Hi Darkness,

I understand LD wants to stay with her husband, but I don’t see the value in basically telling her that if they do end up divorced, she’ll never find anyone else who actually loves her. There are billions of people in the world, hundreds of millions in the US, and hundreds or thousands a person will come across in the course of their life—there is not JUST ONE who will truly care about any of us.

What I meant is that when someone loves us the way LD's husband loves her, it is a rare and special thing, particularly after an affair has happened. I was trying to help LD see that she has something that we all look for in life - true and genuine love - and it would be a sad waste of time to let it slip away and then spend years trying to find a replacement for something that she already has.

'You don't know what you've got until you lose it' has been the theme of countless songs, poems, and books, and that is rarely brought into sharper focus than in times like these.

I want him to have faith that I can be the person that can love him like he deserves, that can support him like he deserves, that can make him happy like he deserves.

I know without a doubt that he would be my bedside if I ever got sick, that he would spoon feed me and even change my bedpan. I actually think he still would even if we divorced, because I know I would be there. We have spent 17 years together. Half of our lives, our whole adult lives together, and I threw that away.

I don't think it is gone, LD. It may be damaged, but given time and commitment, I believe that the two of you can build something new that makes both of you feel valued and protected.

I don't want to have an affair again. I don't want to cross those boundaries again. I don't want to allow myself to become vulnerable like that again. I want to communicate with my husband. I want him to know what I may feel, and I want to know what he may feel. I don't want to shut down and run away again. I am going to value him no matter what may happen with us.

If you look back, I am sure you can see the key points where you slipped into the affair, bit by bit. Watch out for them, and think about what you will do if you ever see any of them happening again.

For example, if a male friend or colleague starts getting suggestive in discussions, emails, or messages, what will you do? Make a plan. There are plenty of polite but firm ways to tell a guy you do not appreciate that stuff.

If you feel yourself getting distant, or withdrawing into yourself, tell you husband, and tell your counselor.

Once you recognize the signs, you can nip trouble in the bud, before it develops into a problem.

I want to take the pain away that I have caused in him. I know there are some who don't believe me, but I also know that there are some who can believe me because they feel the same about the one they betrayed.

There is no fast way to do that, because love proves itself in the long haul. "Keep on keeping on" is a cliche, but it is what you will need to do.

If you can love your husband, and make him feel secure, his feelings will change. Rebuilding takes time, but it is worth it.

You have truly broken your husband. Please tell him everything else you have been withholding. He does not deserve more pain down the road.

[This message edited by NotSureAboutIt at 6:37 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)]

LD

Are you a Tolkien fan? I have been for many decades.

He was a master poet and story teller.

Here is my favorite poem of his.

Interpret it as applying to your husband and your relationship. I, like you, think he is a great, great, man. He can make a comeback from this with you by his side.

“All that is gold does not glitter,

The crownless again shall be king.”

[This message edited by skerzoid at 9:32 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)]

Your update is probably very close to the truth. However when you look at the affair from this view, only an idiot would believe you are in love with your husband less than 2 months out. This affair was not ending. It was growing stronger. Brazen in its openness. You were willing to risk everything for the love of an AP. D day may have shattered your reality of the AP, but your actions during the affair were no illusion.

I think you should take some time away from your husband and find your truth. You may want to love your husband as a wife should, but maybe deep inside you really dont.

Another thing. You used BS on this forum to influence your husband with things that were not true. Your husband took a harsh beat down as a BS partially based on lies that you posted. The manipulation on your thread was heartless. You used this forum to help destroy your husband.

Put the stop sign on. The help you need moving forward is from those who know what they are talking about. It is highly unlikely you will fool any of them.

[This message edited by 66charger at 11:07 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)]

LD,

Going to be a bit blunt here, so skip this post if you are not up to it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I know without a doubt that he would be my bedside if I ever got sick, that he would spoon feed me and even change my bedpan. I actually think he still would even if we divorced, because I know I would be there.

You cannot assume this. It was because of taking him from granted that got you into this mess in the first place, and it may well be less true now.

You have destroyed the person your BH used to be, and assuming that he will still be at your bedside, spoon feeding, changing your bedpan romantic notions, you will have to get rid of them. You must not assume that, as you have not earned it back from him.

You should be thinking of how YOU will look after HIM, and not image it the other way around.

You bought into a fantasy with your AP, and you are now concocting a fantasy with your BH. All the Wuthering Heights nonsense is just that, nonsense.

I really hope that you have REALLY finished with all the hiding. It may be too late, but if you are truly remorseful and willing to do anything to salvage what you destroyed, then it will not matter if it is too late or not, but you will continue to be as truthful and authentic as you can for your BH and child.

If you look back, I’m sure you can see the key points where you slipped into the affair, bit by bit. Watch out for them, and think about what you will do if you ever see any of them happening again.

For example, if a male friend or colleague starts getting suggestive in discussions, emails, or messages, what will you do? Make a plan. There are plenty of polite but firm ways to tell a guy you do not appreciate that stuff.

Ah, the boundaries thesis again. This sort of artificial, cognitive shield which is supposed to protect us from finding ourselves on the slippery slope. I think it is high time we started a discussion on Shirley Glass’ flawed (for me) boundaries thesis. I extracted the following from another thread, and totally agree with Zug who wrote:

I think many WS think they are healed and find out they really aren't when other BS and WS challenge them when they come to complain about why their BS aren't healing. Which is understandable when many tend to white-knuckle it and focus only on boundaries and not WHY they want to cross boundaries.

This the work LD has started with her psychotherapist and her husband. Discovering the whys. Growing up, becoming emotionally adult. When this work is done, she will not need an artificial shield anymore.

Your husband took a harsh beat down as a BS partially based on lies that you posted. The manipulation on your thread was heartless. You used this forum to help destroy your husband.

I begged on my post for people to stop bashing him. He told me some of the things, and I could see what those comments were doing to him. I came here and begged the ones on here who post there to stop digging into him. To stop trying to make him feel like shit for his past. Don't you dare sit there behind your screen and tell me that I used my thread as a way to manipulate him, that I relished in the fact that he was getting a beat down on his thread. I lied to both my husband and the forum on things that happened. I said over and over that what he did in the past was not a reason for my affair. I didn't even want to talk about that. Someone brought his conversation on here and asked about it. I never wanted anyone to bash him or make him feel worse.

Rocket, I didn't say that I assume he will spoon feed me if we divorce. I do think he would come to my bedside though. Again, 17 years and he is not a heartless man. Hell, he might go to bed side and curse me out, but I know he would still be there. I am not concocting some love story bullshit. I also said I know he would be there because I would do the same. I would be by his side in a heartbeat. Even if we are divorced for 50 years, I would still be sitting there next to him trying to feed him some nasty hospital food. Actually no, I would have found a way to have White Castle delivered with some black and white cookies, and give him that to eat.

I get that you all hate me and think I'm the biggest piece of shit walking this planet, and that's fine. You are all entitled to your opinion, but I won't let you type here or on his thread that I feel nothing for him, that I want to destroy his life, that I don't love him, that I am just manipulating him, or that I don't know what I actually want. You may see the outside of me, the wayward handbook, the wayward that crushed your heart, but you can't see inside of me. You can't see how watching what I have done to him is tearing me up inside. You can't see all of the thoughts that I have about myself every single minute of every day. You can't see how I know that he would be better off without me. You can't see how I am beating the shit out of myself every time I look at our daughter and realize what I did. what I have taken from her. You can't see what any of us truly feel. You can only assume, and that's what a lot of you do, just assume. I won't put a stop sign on my thread. I am not forcing anyone to comment on here. A stop won't stop people from reading it. A stop sign won't stop people from reading mine and then going to his to talk shit about me. Which by the way, did you ever stop to think that maybe him and all BS members just need some positive support, not the "your ww/wh is a piece of shit whore/slut/asshole" kind? Maybe just the "we understand you, you will be ok, things can get better" type? Granted, there are a ton of you who do give that support, but then there are just some who have so much hatred in their heart from being fucked over by their partner, that that's all they spew. Give it a rest on the JFO forum. Those members are hurting, they don't need to hear that shit every single day, especially when they're probably thinking it already.

I don’t hate you, well I guess you’re addressing BSs. I just hope this is the last of the TT and that you are being good to him, putting him first.

I understand beating oneself up. I do that a ton. I am sorry you are in such pain. Do you share this with your counselor? You may find it helpful to read some Brene Brown for her work on shame and Kristen Neff for her work on self compassion.

Did you schedule the polygraph?

[This message edited by Justsomelady at 7:28 AM, September 23rd (Monday)]

I am done.

I have told my therapist about what I say to myself.

I didn't post that to say that I am in more pain than my husband. I know you didn't say that, I'm just saying that for anyone else who will think that.

Yes, I have two of Brown's books arriving today on shame and imperfection.

I called one of the testers my therapist gave me. Unfortunately, he only does them at 9am and 1pm. We would have to take off, so I'm waiting on that one. His therapist gave him a list. I need to get those numbers and call them.

[This message edited by LifeDestroyer at 7:32 AM, September 23rd (Monday)]

LD, I have been one of yoi2r biggest supporters. I believed you. I believed you were truly remorseful.

You absolutely used this thread to manipulate your husband. You concocted your false story, insisted it to be true, knowing he would read it. Hoping he would read it. Yes, there was an agreement not to read each other's threads. But, eventually, he would. And you knew it. Often, you wrote as of you were writing to him, not a forum looking for advice.

And you used this thread,and those lies, to manipulate many of us. We gave him advice,based on what you were saying. Sure, some saw through the lies and fake remorse, but many of us did not. So we supported him,based on your lies.

To say you didn't use this thread, this forum, to manipulate your husband, is a lie. You were also told,over and over again, how damaging TT and lies would be. You chose to continue the lies. You may not have set out to hurt him more, but that's what you did. And you did it with the full knowledge of how that would devastate him, once he found out. That was made crystal clear to you several times.

No one hates you, or thinks you are a POS. You are projecting, and making yourself a victim, to deflect some of the truth that has come your way.

[This message edited by HellFire at 9:22 AM, September 23rd (Monday)]

I am not projecting anything. I know damn well that I am a POS for what u did. Nor am I playing the victim card. If anything I'm a victim to myself since I caused all of this. I love how you can see through my lies, but God forbid a ws actually fucking care about his or her spouse. We're full of it. We can't possibly want happiness for them. Yes I am getting defensive and pissed off now. I fucking lied. Not denying that anymore. I will not sit here though and let any of you tell me that I don't love my husband or care about or actually want happiness for him. You are not in my heart or brain. You DON'T know what I feel. So how about you stop projecting your feelings onto me.

You seem very angry at the betrayed spouses here.

Maybe because they encouraged your husband to find out the truth, because they knew you weren't giving it to him?

Sure, the take care of yourself, and the pats on the head kind of suppprt is great. Necessary. But the ones who don t sugarcoat things? Their advice and suppprt is just as necessary.

Betrayed spouses come here after suffering what may be the very worst abuse they have ever had to deal with. They come here after years of lies, and gaslighting. Some of us feel they have been lied to more than enough, and refuse to lie to them now. So we tell them the truth. It's not pretty. It's necessary.

I am a more blunt poster. And I know it's appreciated. I get PM's thanking me for being blunt.

It takes both, the head patters, and the blunt members, to make this site the best their is. And all of them have value.

I fucking lied. Not denying that anymore.

This right here. Progress.

I didn't say you didn't love him,or want him to be happy. I said you were told over and over about the damage lies and TT would cause your husband, yet you chose to do it anyway.

That is not projection. It's fact.

You want to attack those who have been trying to help you, so I'm out.

The truth hurts. I get it. But it's better than being lied to.

I'm not mad at the BSers. I didn't put a stop sign up because I wanted comments from both sides. I'm pissed at the ones from either side that keep trying to tell me what I feel for my husband. Im here for the bluntness. It's actually helping me with my big issue of needing others validation. I have kept my anger to myself on my thread. After 670 comments, I want to be angry. Yes a big part of that is me angry with myself. I will sit here and take the bluntness, I'm a blunt person too. I will also express my feelings about any comment. That whole conflict avoidance issue, yea trying to work on that too.