SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My husband also has an allowance for getting drinks, etc while he's at work or buying things that he doesn't need. It's $50 a month. I have the same. He has an ATM card and his allowance is put into that account on payday. I don't give him the password to the online banking so I don't worry about him transferring money when I'm not paying attention. I used to ask for receipts and he stopped giving them to me because he said it made him feel like a child. He said he would start giving them to me again if I would start making him feel wanted by giving him physical affection. I said no; don't give me receipts then. I won't be manipulated like that.

So if I got a secret bank account, isn't there some way that it would come to light in the event of a divorce and then I would have to split it anyway?

Veryhurt -- mine spent $300,000! over 10 years going twice weekly to the massage parlors. And for all that time, the withdrawals were carefully, accurately, written in the check book that I also used. Just had never though to check any of the entries--just wrote my own check maybe twice a month. Never looked at what was written on the lines above.

Why I did notice the weekly $400 withdrawals when I did I don't know. It was crazy but I discovered his twice weekly indulgence just a couple of months before he retired and would have not had the income or the freedom to walk himself over for his work "destresser."

Day of discovery, four years ago, and without my asking--was probably in too much shock to think about it at the time--he handed over his bank card and now Im the only one making bank withdrawls. We're basically together all the time now but yes, if we weren't I would need to now be in charge of all funds; would not, would never, feel safe again with his having money to re-indulge. If he does go somewhere on his own--and very rarely but it does happen--it's with no more than $20 or so.

Creepy isn't it? That that's what we need to avoid extreme anxiety-in itself the new control of all funds and all spending is itself a constant reminder of what they did, what they wanted to do, what we were blind to . . .still probably the best thing given the reality.

Thank you for sharing your story--I felt so very stupid for not noticing all those years; our therapist did all he could to talk me out of feeling that way-said his wife was the business person in his family and he never looked at check book entries either. And you're a CPA. Guess we were not stupid, just normal and trusting.

Lifeexploded, yes, we have to divulge all assets in the event of divorce. What the "secret" account (I prefer to call it my sanity/escape account) does is allow me access to money whenever I need it in case I need to file; and prevents my husband from wasting it.

So when I listed all our joint and individual assets, I would also list what I had spent/would spend on the divorce and the money would be gone.

It provides the security and freedom to be able to not worry about having the money to file.

ashestophoenix

ATM cards. Been there done that. My husband was also skimming substantial money from a paycheck he deposited physically. He also had inheritance money which I felt I had no right to question. I estimate he spent well over 100k.

I insisted he put that inheritance into a joint account, to "pay back" the family funds he masturbated away. I insisted he give up the atm card. I did this through boundary setting, not "making" him do it. I said "if you set the money up so I see everything, have no hidden accounts, no unexplained withdrawals, direct deposit, then I'll stay, for now. It was his choice if he didn't want to lose me.

I made it a point to withdraw a small amount of spending money and leaving it accessible so he didn't have to ask me for money. He charged everything he bought, leaving a trail. Eventually he got a ATM card, but from an account that notified me of withdrawals, and initially he'd let me know when he was going to make a withdrawal.

I manage all the day to day expenses on a spreadsheet. He's forever making small purchases on eBay and no longer gets resentful when I ask him what it was, as I categorize the purchases. He has access to all the accounts, manages the investments and so all our money is transparent.

Of course, none of this stop his long relapse into that horrible world of violent (simulated he says, as if he'd know) porn.

But at least I'll be financially independent because I know where every penny goes.

I have had two distinct reactions to reading all that. My initial one was WTF OMG HOW DO YOU STAY MARRIED TO SOMEONE YOU HAVE TO TREAT LIKE A DAMNED CHILD AND WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU WANT TO

and the follow up one was...

Smart, ladies. Very smart. You all know that it could come crashing down in an instant and none of you have any intention of being left destitute because your husbands decided to be idiots. The genius I married cashed out his 3 401ks to buy drugs and probably whores too when I told him I was done.

I think there was someone here saying they offer coaching. Would you send me a private message please?

Thank you.

I am sure many who stay question the decision and wish things were different. As for myself, my husband is in recovery and I see him making progress. I think about divorce almost every day. Our marriage will Never be what it was but it seems more painful to divorce than to stay together.

For me, dealing with the infidelity of the SA is like I got shot in the foot. Divorce would be shooting myself in the other foot and then I wouldn't be able to stand at all- without support. I suppose I would eventually heal enough to stand on my own but i don't have the support in the meantime.

The thread for same gender AP is closed. I wish it was still open.

Marie

Married 30 years 2 adult children

SAH probably gay in denial

Marie You can request that a new page be opened for "same gender AP." The threads close after x number of posts but can reopen with a new number.

But about a post offering coaching? I think it's against SI guidelines to offer services or solicit business so Im surprised that you've seen such a post. Perhaps reference was made in a PM to you?

Sometimes we do reach out in a PM to an SI member and offer friendship, more conversation; some of us have shared phone numbers and have had phone chats as well as RL get togethers. We might offer the name of a good therapist. But don't think we're supposed to offer service even in a PM.

I like your shooting foot analogy and relate to your DAOT--decision as of today. I feel pretty much the same way-so have been staying for four years now; together about 40 years-no need for more drama but also feel no sense of commitment.

I sometimes feel like I'm caught in some kind of drama cycle. A lifetime movie about dysfunction and addiction and mental illness. In those stories, one of the spouses comes across as the long suffering but strong, noble partner while the other is a mess, remorseful but out of control. Watching those movies is like watching a train wreck in progress. There is usually a happy ending of sorts. No guarantee of that in real life.

I want a boring life.

[This message edited by Lionne at 3:01 PM, September 12th (Thursday)]

I am sure many who stay question the decision and wish things were different. As for myself, my husband is in recovery and I see him making progress. I think about divorce almost every day. Our marriage will Never be what it was but it seems more painful to divorce than to stay together.

For me, dealing with the infidelity of the SA is like I got shot in the foot. Divorce would be shooting myself in the other foot and then I wouldn't be able to stand at all- without support. I suppose I would eventually heal enough to stand on my own but i don't have the support in the meantime.

- Marie1793, I feel like I could have written both of these paragraphs. I definitely love my husband or I wouldn't be sticking it out. I would NEVER marry him again if I were to do this over. It's too unbelievably painful, to go through this and I was so completely blindsided, like most of us. I can't believe this is my life now and the constant monitoring that I am doing. I look at other people and wish I could trade lives.

Dee-

To tell you the absolute truth...I WISH I could just push a button and FF 6 months- having gone through a divorce, sold the house, split the assets, found a new place for my daughter and I and stabilized a bit.

Right now, the prospect of getting there is like standing on earth & figuring out how I could get to the moon. It feels impossible.

Something bad happened to me- It BROKE me! (mind, body AND spirit)- when I went through the devastation of this experience. I feel destroyed inside & outside.

Is it depression (I am on 2 antidepressants, before that I was suicidal or just wanted to die every single day)? Is it trauma? Is it PTSD? I don't know! All I know is that I don't have 1/1,000th of the strength I need to leave him, sell the house, divide all the shit, go through all the legal shit, find and afford my own place.

I have already been through 3 divorces. Maybe that has something to do with it? I *know* what it will take. I know when I am on my own I will be sweating paying all the bills, I will be using a calculator at the grocery store again, I will NOT have enough for counseling every week, I will be living in a bad neighborhood OR have to get rid of my animals, my daughter will have to move schools- probably in a bad neighborhood...ETC ETC ETC. I feel like I have been put through the ringer over and over and over- and there is nothing left in me.

Destroyed - I hear you. I could have written your exact words some years ago.

We don't have to defend or justify our decisions and actions to anyone. What we need is compassion and support. Getting back energy was an important guidepost for me in assessing my healing. I needed to take pressure off of myself early on...I needed to get away from the pressure to divorce, the pressure to stay, the pressure to understand...to get out of the pain and mess. Whew. I'm exhausted just remembering all of that. I needed to give myself the gift of time. I needed that time to focus on me and my well being. And you have your daughter to focus on as well.

It took me over a year to figure out that I needed a trauma therapist. It took some time to find a good one. I have PTSD, well, C-PTSD actually. I'm getting help with that and am healing. I've learned that new trauma (discovery)re-ignites old trauma (in your case, your prior divorces). There is nothing wrong with needing financial security for yourself and your daughter while you take this time to heal.

I felt completely shattered. I was shocked at how shattered I felt. You describe it as broken. I get it. I don't feel that way now. I do feel scarred, but I am okay with that.

I think your symptoms are trauma symptoms, but I'm not a professional. I can just say that I had or have what you are describing.

I realize that we are all wired differently. For some of us, divorcing, leaving, whatever...taking action fast is exactly what we need to do. For others of us, it takes longer to make these kind of decisions. There is nothing wrong with either decision.

The best advice I got was to detach from my husband (that took time) and to focus on me and my well being (that took time as well). I'm doing that. I feel so much better. I still have a ways to go. I hope my experience gives you some solace and hope which you so deserve.

ashestophoenix

[This message edited by ashestophoenix at 8:35 AM, September 14th (Saturday)]

Hey all. It’s been a few months since I’ve checked in here. Nothing much has changed or improved in the marriage. I do like my new IC though.

I’ve been thinking along the same lines of many of you lately. I still don’t know “what to do” but I’m preparing for life alone in case it goes that route. I think I can have my car loan paid off by the end of the year and I’m also job hunting. I’ve calculated the salary I would need to make in order to afford to live on my own and support myself, so here’s to hoping I’ll be able to get that somewhere.

The topic of the day in our household ... I want to take a trip to visit my parents (they live 8 hours away and I haven’t been to their house since they first moved there 2 years ago). It needs to happen pretty soon here, since as I said, I’m job hunting so I don’t know when I’ll have available vacation time again.

But SAWH is refusing to go with me. He says since things are so bad between us, he doesn’t feel comfortable going on a big trip together.

Ok fine. But I’m done letting him dictate my life. If he doesn’t want to go, I’ll just go without him.

But I’m done protecting him. I’m not going to lie to my parents and say he’s sick or something. I’m done helping him avoid consequences of his actions and keeping his secrets.

Naturally he’s freaking out about what I’m going to tell them

Ashes - the detaching is the best. That took me years. It's like watching from the viewpoint of someone outside the marriage. I recognize that he's doing stupid stuff but not going to let it affect me. Not my problem.

Dogs - Good for you. Isn't it funny how worried they get about what you're going to tell people. I just laugh. Should have thought about that before hand sweetie. LOL

So this last weekend was interesting. I was showing sawh a picture of our 13 year old with his gf at homecoming. He grabbed my phone and started going through my pics. I can't remember if I mentioned this but I looked through his backpack and found a bottle of CBD tincture that he shouldn't have had enough $$ to buy, and it isn't even sold around here so I have no clue how he bought it. When I found it, I took pics of it so I could look it up. I was watching his face out of the corner of my eye and I could pinpoint the moment he saw the pictures. His eyes got big and he mouthed something, not sure what. Then, the next day, he starts lovebombing me. Random foot and shoulder rubs (yes, I wll take them) and bought me chocolate at the store. Let me take a 3 hour nap yesterday and made dinner. It's funny because I think about all the times he randomly does stuff like this before returning to his regular assholian self. I thought he was just being nice but in reality he was probably feeling guilty for something or trying to gaslight me.

I stopped keeping cash in my wallet. It always seemed to disappear faster than I thought it should but I'm pretty flaky so I figured that I just wasn't keeping track. The bank account isn't going down nearly as quickly as it used to. It will be very interesting to see if we run out of money like usual this pay period or not.

Funny story: we were discussing his boss who is a huge jerk. On Friday he was yelling at and verbally abusing the secretaries at their job, and made one of them cry. We were talking about it and how this boss's wife never smiles. She literally looks like she is in a bad mood all the time. I half-joked that she's probably going to divorce him as soon as their son graduates from HS.

SAWH asks "Is that what you're doing? Just hanging on until the kids get out of school?"

Me: "Of course not."

In my head: "Planning on leaving much sooner than that."

Oh! And another interesting story. I was looking at sawh phone history on the accountability app and he was looking at my facebook page and random guy's profiles. I think he was clicking on ones whose names he didn't recognize because they are all childhood or high school friends. I don't know what he's thinking.

Dogs, good to hear from you and how strong you are.

Life, my SAH was always the jealous sort. In fact, before marrying me he asked to not make him jealous since he was so sensitive! What a complete asshole since he was an active addict when I married him.

Anyway, I made sure never to make him jealous. The joke was on me. Prior to D-day he'd have these random, uncalled for hissy fits accusing me of having an affair. Now I know it was because he was guilty about who knows what.

He also went through my Facebook pages post D-day, which he had completely ignored for years, and asked about any man on the pages. As our MC pointed out, if the tables were turned and he had discovered I was an SA, he would have had an affair. So he assumed I did. Jerk.

What's great is anytime any ridiculous jealous words or behavior come up I tell him to shove it and not to bring ANY of that around me. He doesn't have the right. At year six, he never brings it up. Ever. I take that as a victory for sanity and self care.

ashestophoenix

This last year was very toxic. Things were good for a while and I was appreciating the calmness to our storm. I was starting to feel a little safer and high on hopium.

We went on our trip, he made it clear he would have a few drinks if I did or not. I told him I didn’t agree and it made me uncomfortable and that he should speak to a sponsor. He spoke many words convincing me he wasn’t that type of alcoholic and that he did talk to a sponsor. No one (including me) would tell him to drink, he knows that. I guess he had himself convinced he could drink like normal people .He did anyways and then so did I. Not in excess but we had a few drinks each day. I allowed myself the break to stop trying to control him, relax and experiment if we could reconnect. I gave up for a few days being responsible and fighting. We had sex many times. I really let my guard down. Now we are back home and back to normal life. He feels like he can grope me at any time and I am uncomfortable with that. He feels entitled to sex whenever now and I don’t want it. I tell him and he is left confused. He should be, I am in the wrong for having sex with him or having a drink. I enabled him in both his addictions. I feel responsible and confused and angry at myself.

He had planned to go to AA and restart but hasn’t. He has drank once since being home. I told him that I don’t feel safe with him continuing to drink. Who am I to talk since I just shared a pina colada with him on a beach.

He has been led to think things are better ( as men often think once they have sex everything is fixed). But it isn’t. I just told him I didn’t know if I would ever trust or love him again like I once had. That like him, I am trying one day at a time. I can’t predict the future and what it will be or how I will feel.

This was after he tried to have sex today and I declined. This snowballed into a huge fight and him insisting we separate then if that is how I feel. Because he can’t go on like this, especially not drinking. It turned into him accusing me of never really wanting sex (all BS) and that I haven’t given him a BJ in a year. I reminded him of his confession of many BJs during our marriage and that him asking that of me is a huge trigger obviously. It is all so messed up. This fight was all over the place that I am left so confused as to what just happened. I am feeling bad but don’t overly know what I did or said wrong. He expressed jealousy and some projection (accusing me of intent to cheat on him). This makes me feel bad about my plans tmrw to celebrate a friends 40th but I have no plans to cheat so why do I feel bad. Now he is sleeping downstairs and telling me he will figure out a place to stay come Sunday. I reminded him that it’s really been 3 months since he came home from rehab and that his expectations of me are unrealistic. And if he can’t wait or put in the work to allow healing to take place then maybe he should go...

Mostly I feel like I just went through a tornado and don’t know what just happened...

Somber, there are relationships that do not involve these issues. I know what it's like to be with an addict (alcohol, drugs, sex). I know what it's like to see the "recovering" addict decided that drinking and maybe smoking some weed is okay since those aren't the really destructive drugs.

Yeah, whatever on that. It's the mindset that's the problem, not the substance. There is no happy with an active addict. There can't be. There's no honesty, there's no genuine love, there's no safety and security. There's one person constantly trying to alter their reality and fill a black hole inside of them and another person who will be disrespected and neglected because of that. That's what it is. If you want to live like that, if being with this particular man is worth all of the hell that's included on that ride, that's your choice to make. There is better out there, though. This is scraping the bottom of the barrel for a marriage.

Somber It's not your responsibility to be monitoring him.

I enabled him in both his addictions. I feel responsible and confused and angry at myself.

I understand why you feel that way but I wonder is your husband feeling responsible and confused and angry at himself? From all you have shared with us here, I doubt that he has anything like those thoughts and feelings.

Somber, I know that we can have good days and bad and the awful feelings we may have when we reach out on SI aren't necessarily with us all the time. But from what we do know of your story and your H's behaviors, it seems you are extremely unhappy this way and no, you don't want to live this way. But you have choices. It seems you feel you have none but you do.

I don't remember if you are working with an IC and if you are actively engaged in an IRL support groups--SANON, BAN--there are others. You are a young woman--I know, not 21 or 31 but still young. You don't have to settle for being unhappy.

Oh Somber, I'm so sorry you're in this position.

He feels entitled to sex whenever now and I don’t want it. I tell him and he is left confused. He should be, I am in the wrong for having sex with him or having a drink. I enabled him in both his addictions. I feel responsible and confused and angry at myself.

I remember well the push and pull of deciding to have sex. I would go months without it, then decide to give in, and now all of a sudden they don't want to go a day, hell even a few hours without it. They grope you whenever they can, and then get angry when you don't respond to the groping.

You start to feel as if it's all your fault for giving in and having sex in the first place. But it is NOT your fault. It is the addict in them. They do not understand the concept of moderation. He should never claim confusion for you not wanting to have sex. Each and every time that two people have sex, there needs to be consent by both parties. You consenting to and engaging in sex yesterday does not mean you want sex today. You having sex this morning does not mean you want sex right now, or an hour from now, or later tonight. You are NOT responsible for his feelings. He needs to learn to control those urges, not let them all out on you like some sort of sex flood gate has been opened.

Unfortunately, this cycle will keep repeating as long as he is an active addict. You have sex, and he gets the feel goods from that, so he wants to keep chasing that high to complete excess, groping you and asking for it at every turn. Then his inability to temper his need for excess will make you feel unsafe, and then you'll go for longer and longer stretches without it, which he then views as punishment, and a "neglect" of his needs, a denial of those feel-goods he is so desperately searching for. He will badger you about it and make you feel terrible for denying him. And each time you do finally give in, the cycle starts all over again.

Sounds like he is still white knuckling through his sobriety. If he is already 12-stepping, as it sounds like he is since you mentioned a sponsor, then he isn't doing it right. There is "doing the work" and then there is DOING. THE. WORK. There is a surface level of "doing the work" that many addicts fake their way through when they just aren't ready to actually DO. THE. WORK.

Sure, they go to meetings, they might have a sponsor, and they will tell anyone that will listen that they are sober - or even if they're not talking about it to anyone else, they will remind YOU of it every chance they get. But in the end they're just using that as a means of getting validation, so yet again, they're letting their addict brain take over. Only this time they're addicted to the feel-goods they get when they talk about their sobriety - they are expecting the good-for-you's and atta-boy's. Someone who is truly DOING. THE. WORK doesn't need those though.

In regards to your husband choosing to drink because he's "not that kind of alcoholic," I would like to say, there is only one kind of alcoholic - the alcoholic kind. My brother went through a phase in the early sobriety days where he thought he would be able to get back to just having a few casual drinks with friends, and guess where that landed him? In a hospital getting his stomach pumped and having to turn in his chip and start all over again at 1 day sober.

I'm reminded of a Steinbeck quote:

Sometimes a man wants to be stupid if it lets him do a thing his cleverness forbids

Your husband is not stupid, he knows he is an addict, and that he should not be drinking. But he wants to PLAY stupid so that he can get away with it. He even "spoke with a sponsor" who he says told him that drinking is okay?? I find it incredibly hard to believe that any sponsor would condone that. And if they actually did say that, then he needs to get a new sponsor.

Another Steinbeck quote:

Some people think it's an insult to the glory of their sickness to get well.

Some people just don't want to get better. I honestly feel that most, if not all, addicts fall into this category, at least during any active addictions, but also even in the early stages of their attempts at sobriety. Addicts will not get better until they want to get better. And sometimes their vices have become such an enmeshed part of their identity, they actually view getting sober as an affront to their personhood, which in actuality, is victimhood.

Teaching empathy to an addict who isn't willing to learn is like trying to teach a raging bull not to demolish every dish in the china shop - impossible. As painful as it is to watch the bull thrash around and destroy everything in its path, you are powerless to stop it. You can see so clearly from the outside that all of that thrashing is just causing more damage, and isn't doing anything to actually solve the problem which is their rage, but until they want to see it, they won't, and they will continue to thrash. So until the bull comes to you with an open heart and an earnest desire to learn and grow, you've just got to keep letting the bull do whatever bulls do. Stop expecting him to be anything but a bull, and just focus on being the best YOU that you can be.

Just remember that sometimes being the best you involves being uncomfortable - denying him sex even though he has made it clear he really wants it for example. You might feel bad, and will have the inclination to give in because you feel responsible for his feelings. But you have to keep reminding yourself that you are not. Allowing him to cross those boundaries will feel good because he will be happy that you had sex, and now everything can go back to normal again, right? Wrong. Those good feelings will be temporary, because while you feel you have satiated his need, you can't satiate the insatiable, and he WILL come back for more. He will just learn that if he pushes just a little bit harder he can always get you to cave.

I know you already know this, so keep on keeping on with your own boundaries. Have sex when you want to, not because he wants it. And deny sex when you want to, because that is your right. Deny BJs because they are a trigger, and then let him respond however he responds. Moving into a separate bedroom because you won't give him a BJ even though he has received them from other women during your marriage? I would gladly tell him to go fuck himself.

Sometimes you expect a lot from someone because you would do that much for them.

I have not been able to find where that quote is from, but it is something I have identified with. Some people are just not capable of the same things that we are - the levels of empathy and compassion that flow freely from us are not easily reached by people like them - and we all know addicts don't like anything that isn't easy. If your refusal to be a glorified sex toy for sex on demand is the hill that he wants to let your marriage die on, then so be it. Let him throw a temper tantrum and go find somewhere else to stay because he isn't getting enough BJs. That says everything about his own afflictions of entitlement and selfishness.

The last Steinbeck quote I'll leave you with:

I believe a strong woman may be stronger than a man, particularly if she happens to have love in her heart. I guess a loving woman is indestructible.

You are indestructible. You will have scars, but we all do. They will always be there, but they will fade with time, and will be a reminder of everything you fought so hard to make it through.

Oh somber, I am so sorry. I identify with so much of this. I recognize so much of his behavior in my own husband. But I love what doublelife said with the bull metaphor. She is so right. Trying to control these people is fruitless and we might as well keep out of their way or they will smash us too.

A few days ago, sawh and i were laying in bed discussing our schedule for the next morning. I needed to get in the shower by 6 so we could wake up our 13 year old by 6:30. ANYWAY, i asked him if he could be done with his shower by 6. He very rudely said no, he will be home at 6 (he works out at the school track every morning) and THEN he will get in the shower. Whatever. The next morning my alarm went off at 6, and I checked his map ... still at the track. Not at home. So I got in the shower. He got home a few minutes later and just stripped and got in the shower with me without even asking. Then, he tried to rub his hands all over my body while I was trying to shave and such. I did notice that my wet soapy body didnt visibly arouse him and one side of me is glad while the other side is offended. How crazy is that?

Yesterday we were on our way to our sons' soccer practice and I was researching an ebay seller whose podcast I listen to for motivation. Sawh wanted to know what I was doing, and I explained that I wanted to know how many ebay listings he has because he makes a full time income so it gives me a goal. This podcaster has 1800 listings, while I have 200. He immediately is like "oh you cant do that. Thats impossible. You dont have room to store that much stuff. We dont live in a big enough town to find that much stuff." Etc etc. Like why rain on my parade? Why cant you be supportive? I'm bringing in about $500 a month right now. Hmmmmm.....if I multiplied my number of listings by 9x, maybe my income would also increase 9x ... then I could possibly be bringing home like $4,500 a month. That would be a problem wouldnt it? I could divorce him then. Oh wait, I think I figured out why he wants me to fail.