SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

WS went to OW house and did things for her. I did everything at home alone.

Not only has this post been hilarious, but its been very very insightful for me. Thank you all.

Coco,

I agree that the AP could have been any one. My WW (prior to the collapse of her life) was approached by other men and she shut it down and told me each time. The AP even approached her a 8-10 weeks before she engaged in the affair and she told me. Then it spiral. Since he was fired for a job for sexual harassment, my wife was the slowest and weakest at that time. Opportunity knocked and they both answered. However, I don't see how this aligns with plan a versus b. Are you saying that she was making herself plan A (get the ego kibbles, feel wanted, desired, whatever) at all cost. Thus anything I view she did for him (go screw him, when she could have been having lunch with me) was less about him and I and all about her?

Stolen,

This is one of the puzzle pieces I've been missing. Thank you. I've not framed it like this before but this is the culmination of all the hard work I've been doing for 25 months. I have made myself plan A. Which at times makes me feel uncaring and guilty. As I put the princess first for so long. I am my own Plan A and that's all that matters!

Are you saying that she was making herself plan A (get the ego kibbles, feel wanted, desired, whatever) at all cost. Thus anything I view she did for him (go screw him, when she could have been having lunch with me) was less about him and I and all about her?

Precisely. There was no competition between you and the OM.

Feelings are not facts. That doesn't make them any less real to the one feeling them. Logic is not fact, either. Your logic may be very different from mine. I'm sure my H has a logical reason why he loads the dishwasher the way he does. Makes no sense to me.

Both feelings and logic may take in facts. They are just different reactions. One is instinctive. The other uses thought. Logic can be just as flawed.

WRT getting turned on by my H doing chores, I probably phrased that incorrectly. I don't want my H do the dishes and get all hot and bothered. However, the fact that he contributes to the family on that way makes him very attractive. While it may be what a decent person would do, there are many men who don't do it. I have many friends and acquaintances who are amazed at what my H does. One person who knew about his A said it was no wonder he did so much. My response was that he has always done all that stuff. So, it's a hot commodity to find a man who does his share of chores.

As someone who was and is used by his ex in many ways, I will not be doing choreplay.

This does not mean that I will not help out etc. But as is said, I don't expect to get anything out of it.

What about all the As that occur with handymen, contractors, other men in the house? Is the BH out choreplayed?

As a man, I know I can be outcompeted in any facet. Including "I'm bored, and this man is saying all the right things right now." Boy does that ever work. Read here for more.

I feel for the BWs, they did not break the rules. But I can't play that game any more.

I've not framed it like this before but this is the culmination of all the hard work I've been doing for 25 months. I have made myself plan A.

Glad this resonated with you Brennan87. I am one month behind you and have also been working very hard on this recovery thing. In the beginning, I would look in the mirror and see myself with a big B on my forehead for Betrayed. Then it changed to C for CHUMP. It was hard to fight the negative self talk, and the topic of this thread was tough for me because I was basically the steady Eddie, paycheck and provider setting up the safe environment that allowed her to go off and do whatever she wanted.

Then one day, the self talk changed. I looked in the mirror and I saw a man of honor. A man of integrity and character. I saw the fucking Man Lottery and it changed everything for me. That is when I decided I was going to be Plan A for myself. So now FML has a much different meaning for me! I love my wife, but I don't need my wife to have a great life. It is cool that she has done lots of work and made an amazing transformation, but I will be good with or without her because I am my own Plan A.

Truth, man. I am plan A. Can’t stay in fear. Recognize what you are afraid of and realize it isn’t that bad. I have been divorced before, not looking to do it again but if that’s what’s in the cards then so be it. That’s not what is happening now so go to no worries mode. Only way to get through it.

BTW, I just want to point out that all chaps are "ass less" so saying ass less chaps is redundant. That is all!

For the record, we are common folk. 😊 Just blessed enough to live very comfortably.

@Brennan Please accept my apology if you felt this was snark directed at you. It was not and I am sorry if I made you feel that way. I was talking more about the rich and famous, whether celebrity or CEO's (Amazon, i.e.) of companies and their spouses.

eta: quote I was addressing

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 12:35 PM, May 4th (Saturday)]

Captains log stardate 012897 - Today’s mission with the suction device has been accomplished. Awaiting commendations

Captains log stardate 190504-02:14 - checking in from disparate location; worked side by side with her in the yard and shared that portion of this thread dealing in "choreplay" during our break; she was sufficiently entertained and engaged by it; net result despite her post menopausal drop in libido was an enthusiastic play on my junk; conclusion: much fun, but certain that her agenda for further effort on my part to "choreplay" is at play. Fuck it, even if its a one-off, worth it.

Sister,

No worries! I think given the plan a/b conversation, I'm overly sensitive to this topic. We are good!

Coco,

Rationally that makes total sense (her versus me/him) and no competition. I think it will take me a bit longer to digest and really believe it.

Stolen,

Completely agree! I too know at the end of the day, if R implodes, I will be okay with just myself. I like and love myself and to quote my friend "Brennan you are a great catch".

Rationally that makes total sense (her versus me/him) and no competition. I think it will take me a bit longer to digest and really believe it.

Yes, it doesn't usually happen immediately. Most BPs question themselves early post dday.

Hi I think that line of thinking occurs with women too. There's times I've felt like plan B. For example, one summer my boyfriend dumped me...more like, he just stopped talking to me altogether and disappeared on me. He complained that I never had any free time during the year when I'm working, but as soon as I was off for the summer and finally had free time, he disappeared. He did this more than one summer, then would appear again as soon as summer ended like nothing had ever happened. I found out later that during one of those summers, he spent summer giving motircycle rides to the new woman in his neighborhood and who knows what else. I wonder why he even sticks around. Then I remember I have a retirement pension due my way in a few years...

[This message edited by teacherjoggergal at 3:49 PM, May 5th (Sunday)]

Your logic may be very different from mine.

No, it cannot. That's the power of logic. It's a system of rules that have to be followed to drive to a conclusion. Now, what can and often is different is that I might be using different inputs to build the logic in my mind. That's entirely possible, you can draw the wrong conclusion with logic, but it's one of two things, your source data was wrong or your logic is broken. If you're following a valid logical formula though, assuming your input data is good, everyone else who follows the formula and uses that same data will wind up with the same result. That's the beautiful thing about it, it's testable and verifiable where feelings are, by nature, not either of those things. And feelings change, logic is an constant, it doesn't matter how I feel about it, E=Mc2 will always there, A^2 + B^2 = C^2 will always describe the length of the long side of a right triangle.

That's always been my problem working from "feelings", it's untestable, it's always changing, and it's completely unreliable. A few minutes ago I was starving, now I'm not hungry at all. I starting thinking, when was the last time I ate? It's been many hours, so I know I need to go eat, but the feeling, hunger followed by fullness? It's the absolute epitome of "unreliable". Eat when you need to, not when your stomach "feels like" it needs food and you'll have far more positive outcomes with your weight and health. And stuff like this has almost always been the case for me, feelings are about as reliable for me as a Yugo without oil or gas in the tank.

I gotta disagree, RIO. Everyone thinks differently. Therefore, the way I work things out and come to a conclusion is going to be different from the way you do it.

Facts, A, B, and C. You are linear, so you go from A to B to C and D. Um not linear, so I go from B to A to C and get Y.

Facts, A, B, and C. You are linear, so you go from A to B to C and D. Um not linear, so I go from B to A to C and get Y.

Is the right answer D or Y? You can use any thought process you want to get to the right answer, it's just that logical reasoning is the one that works often. But all that really matters is getting the right answer, no matter how you get there. In your example, what really matters isn't ABC vs BAC; what matters is D vs Y.

No, it cannot. That's the power of logic. It's a system of rules that have to be followed to drive to a conclusion.

But you don't follow the rules.

For example, when you can't know the facts, logic dictates that you acknowledge your lack of knowledge.

But you don't do that. Instead, for example, you keep writing that men cheat for sex, because that's how you interpret what your circle says - and you don't even know if the men in that circle are telling the truth.

You push your facts far beyond their limits, and that’s a violation of the rules of any valid logical system.

You call yourself logical. IMO, you're driven by emotion far more than you acknowledge. You'll be better off if you acknowledge it.

You call yourself logical. IMO, you're driven by emotion far more than you acknowledge. You'll be better off if you acknowledge it.

God I hope not. Please help me see it and get rid of it though because, honestly, I'm not sure you could levy a more hurtful insult at me that "you're being driven by your emotions" or making conclusions based only on your emotions.

The example you gave, however, I don't feel is a good one for what you're saying.

But you don't do that. Instead, for example, you keep writing that men cheat for sex, because that's how you interpret what your circle says - and you don't even know if the men in that circle are telling the truth.

That's not my interpretation, or, if you consider it an interpretation, it's not much of one. I'm not sure anyone has ever said "I cheat for sex" in that many words, but, it's not much of a stretch from what they do say to "cheating for sex". However, that said, I have to admit your right, I have no idea if they are telling the truth or not. That's part of the thing about this topic that drives me insane, there's no grounding for a rational or logical conversation if we assume "everyone is lying" or "nobody understands their own motivations". Why should I believe my wife "I didn't cheat for sex" objectively anymore than I believe "I did cheat for sex" from the OM I've spoken to in the past. It becomes like politics, there's no objective truth, there's just spin on spin.

I don’t think itsspin on spin. I just think you want to see a rule of thumb where there is not. “Men cheat for sex, women cheat for love”. I think it’s individual more than you think. The generalizations is how it becomes political.

I doubt your wife cheated for sex with a husband who wanted a lot of sex. I relate to that. You are looking for a universal answer but there isn’t one. It’s okay to believe your wife if you want to do that. You may consider accepting that it makes no sense because it doesn’t. I think you look for evidence to believe but you will never get it in all forms and from every story. There are some things about cheating that are pretty one size fits all - it’s a shirt list- then there are common motivations.

[This message edited by hikingout at 1:00 PM, May 6th (Monday)]

I agree with sisoon, RIO. Whilst reading your post about how logical you felt your thinking is I was "wait...what?". I feel you view most everything and everyone in some kind of sexual context/lens. When someone asked you if you thought you maybe a sex addict (at least, I think someone asked you) I wasn't really surprised. I have no idea what and is considered sexual addiction, but I do feel it is rather limiting to have views that are so entrenched and seemingly hyper focused in sexuality/sex.

eta: missing words

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 1:48 PM, May 6th (Monday)]

God I hope not. Please help me see it and get rid of it though because, honestly, I'm not sure you could levy a more hurtful insult at me that "you're being driven by your emotions" or making conclusions based only on your emotions.

Hey, logic isn't everything. I refer you to the classic Star Trek episode Amok Time. A woman in this episode reminds me of my ex more than any other fictional character, other than maybe Bea Arthur's Maude.

Spock is in some sort of heat because of the way Vulcans work. Vulcans apparently also have arranged marriages. So Spock and company warp off to Vulcan where Spock will marry his child bride on a studio set.

However, his bride to be has other ideas. It is allowed for the bride to be to choose a challenger to the presumptive groom, for a fight to the death. There is another Vulcan male who seems interested, but he is not chosen as challenger. The challenger, instead, is Captain Kirk. So it's Kirk and Spock in a fight to the death.

McCoy winds up rigging the fight, so all is well in the end. But why did she choose Kirk? She figured that the winner would not want her either way, so she would be free to have the man she really wants. Whereas if her preferred choice fights, she has a 50% chance of losing.

Her choice was brutally (to put it mildly) unfair to Kirk and Spock as well as kind of diminishing the agency of her preferred choice. But to get what she wanted, it was the logical choice. As long as you don't give a shit about anyone else. And they're not you, so maybe that's the way you roll. But it is logical.