SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I know, right? And in a gyno-influenced world, that's all that fuckin' matters now, yeah?

Whatever, NotTheManIWas. I feel sorry for you. I am not going to argue with a Red Pill indoctrinated man. So not worth it. Sorry. Good luck!

Um, so, which friends?

Get back to vacuuming, houseboy.

(I am never going to hear the end of this, people)

Boys and men are shoved into the social construct of "masculinity" like square pegs pounded into round holes.

This presumes that its a "social construct." I say it isn't. I am (was) an idealist. I fuckin' tried. Here's what's true. I now acknowledge how I "feel." Not rejecting it anymore. And your assertions of "what ought to be" are now meaningless to me. You don't get to dictate what comes to me viscerally now.

ETA:

Whatever, NotTheManIWas. I feel sorry for you. I am not going to argue with a Red Pill indoctrinated man. So not worth it. Sorry. Good luck!

My, my... quite the bail out.

[This message edited by NotTheManIwas at 9:49 AM, May 7th (Tuesday)]

Ya know I blame Aerosmith for all of this.

My dumb two cents for what it's worth. My wife was into me most whenever I displayed these traits: confident, cocky, knows a lot about something (anything), physically fit, giving into her fucking demands.

It's no coincidence that she dried up the moment my joblessness started affecting my confidence. She dealt with it for a long time, and most of that time I was teaching myself new skills and acing cert programs.

I was nice that whole time. Didn't get her riled up.

How many men on here had their wife cheat on them with some cut dude?

Mine did. He was bit younger and way more handsome than me.

But I can say that the humiliation motivated me to get back to the gym and lose a ton of weight I had put on. I look and feel much better now, and that in turn helps with the self confidence.

My fWW has not made much of a deal of my getting in the best shape of my life. But she has told me that she likes my new confidence. So it kind of reinforced my thinking that women rate confidence above looks. There are a lot of good looking athletic guys in our church, but the OM (a minister) confidently got inside my fWW's head and told her all the nice things she wanted to hear. He talked her panties off.

No one "emasculates" a man but that man himself. Because HE is the one who defines his own masculinity.

I agree, ChamaomileTea. Good post.

NTV...

Ya know I blame Aerosmith for all of this.

Dude (Looks Like a Lady)

This???

I don't disagree, Abandoned. I do think women like confidence just like men like confidence. But, that's probably not what happened. In times when one of the people are down or depressed, the other person can also become isolated, they don't know what to do about that detachment. Your wife probably always had the "I need a lot of attention" and "bad coping skills" combination. We waywards over value our own happiness. Again, I don't think this speaks anything about you, it was her inability to support you through it rather than keep working on her own needs only.

This presumes that its a "social construct." I say it isn't. I am (was) an idealist. I fuckin' tried. Here's what's true. I now acknowledge how I "feel." Not rejecting it anymore. And your assertions of "what ought to be" are now meaningless to me. You don't get to dictate what comes to me viscerally now.

Little boys are not born aggressive and hostile. Terrence Real's work on covert male depression and the deleterious effects of patriarchal conditioning are actually quite thought-provoking. It's a shame you dismiss them out of hand.

It's a shame you dismiss them out of hand.

And anecdotal evidence matters not to you, yes? I've got grandchildren of both genders. Seen their "inclinations" from the word "go." You'd dismiss my "unscientific" offerings, yeah?

Your wife probably always had the "I need a lot of attention" and "bad coping skills" combination.

Oh she definitely definitely did. I might've been blindsided and devastated, but some part of me wasn't surprised.

Posted: 10:07 AM, May 7th (Tuesday), 2019

What kind of car do I want??? Well I've had the "Subaru" now I* want the F'ing Ferrari!!! I don't really care about the damn reliability because I'll probably kill myself in it before it has a chance to breakdown!!!

As to the subject at hand when I was younger I played the part of "Handsome Asshole" and had more women than I could shake a stick at. When I got a little older and started to be the "Nice Guy" my folks wanted my success rate with women went way down. Not saying this is everybody but it is my experience.

Of course when I was playing "Handsome Asshole" I was engaging a much larger spectrum of women. If someone was married that did not eliminate them. I thought that that was them cheating, not me. (I know differently now). Also I would get excited with the possibility of physical confrontation!! (I think I have mentioned before that I have PTSD and am addicted to excitement)

JMO YMMV

And anecdotal evidence matters not to you, yes? I've got grandchildren of both genders. Seen their "inclinations" from the word "go." You'd dismiss my "unscientific" offerings, yeah?

The natural inclinations of boys and girls is discussed by the author, yes. But do I believe that Real's research is a more thorough accounting than anecdotal evidence?.. yes. Real isn't out to make pod people. He's about liberating men from shame and caricature.

Your wife probably always had the "I need a lot of attention" and "bad coping skills" combination.

Oh she definitely definitely did. I might've been blindsided and devastated, but some part of me wasn't surprised.

So, then put away the part of you who blames himself for that. When we get married we sign up to be there for each other in good times and in bad. It's her foul that she doesn't do the being there for the bad. That's 100% on her, not a statement about you.

He's about liberating men from shame and caricature.

This is laugh worthy only in that this man and many more that I know want no part of this.

ETA: I submit something a younger, smarter man than me said...

I know my own post DDay fog and how I needed to be shaken out of it. This is just how men shake each other up. Why? Because it gets results. Kid gloves do not.

[This message edited by NotTheManIwas at 10:25 AM, May 7th (Tuesday)]

Little boys are not born aggressive and hostile.

Says someone who never played with other little boys in a group as a kid. No, I reject that, too much personal experience and history for me to think that either little boys or men are "not aggressive or hostile" by nature. We have 1000's of years of history of men killing/plundering/raping their way across the world. All learned behavior or simply biology? Give a woman a lot of testosterone, guess what happens? Aggressive and hostile behavior. I think this is far more nature than socialization and nurture, although, I do freely admit, that plays a part in it.

As to the subject at hand when I was younger I played the part of "Handsome Asshole" and had more women than I could shake a stick at. When I got a little older and started to be the "Nice Guy" my folks wanted my success rate with women went way down. Not saying this is everybody but it is my experience.

Same here. And that's a big part of the problem, men who've done both and played both roles have seen the results of each of those roles. And they are different, in my case, vastly different. Just like, I'm sure, a lot of women have the experience of starting to wear makeup and suddenly boys paying more attention to them. Or mini-skirts/yoga pants/etc. It works. They get attention, and, if that's what they like, well, they keep doing more of it to get more attention. I'm pretty confident that if high heels and mini-skirts stopped working you'd see women quickly ditch them in favor of something a bit more sensible. But they do work, I'd never argue they don't, and, because of that, women risk falling off stilts and pull down their skirt all day to prevent indecent exposure laws from being violated. No problem with it, but let's not try to totally neglect the reason for doing these things.

I had NO desire at all to be the "handsome asshole". I wanted women to like me because I was nice and friendly, funny, good looking and smart. But none of those traits came near to getting me the attention that being the "handsome asshole" did. Maybe it was attention from the wrong people, that's entirely possible. But it was attention, and, at that point in my life, I didn't care if I was sleeping with the "right girl" or just "a girl" so long as I was having sex with her and she was attractive to me.

The moment women stop rewarding men for being the "handsome asshole" is the moment the red pill/pick up artist stuff will stop. The moment men stop rewarding women for wearing 5in heels and miniskirts is the moment those garments will find their way into the recycle bin replaced by comfortable and more sensible clothes. Worthy goals, but.. Good luck.

The moment women stop rewarding men for being the "handsome asshole" is the moment the red pill/pick up artist stuff will stop. The moment men stop rewarding women for wearing 5in heels and miniskirts is the moment those garments will find their way into the recycle bin replaced by comfortable and more sensible clothes. Worthy goals, but.. Good luck.

Thank you. Life's realities. And there you have it.

The moment women stop rewarding men for being the "handsome asshole" is the moment the red pill/pick up artist stuff will stop.

So, was the OM who interloped upon your marriage just doing what nature intended him to do? following his natural inclinations? emulating acceptable learned behavior to get a sexual reward? Is he not responsible for trespassing on your marriage and on your life?

The moment women stop rewarding men for being the "handsome asshole" is the moment the red pill/pick up artist stuff will stop. The moment men stop rewarding women for wearing 5in heels and miniskirts is the moment those garments will find their way into the recycle bin replaced by comfortable and more sensible clothes. Worthy goals, but.. Good luck.

You are still conflating dating and marriage.

Dating/on the prowl - you were looking for the woman who was dressed a certain way because there are signals that people send. I don't think you are wrong about that. That same "good time girl", you would never have married her. As much as you want to say that you need your partner to be sexy and have lots of sex, you are dismissing the fact you got married to the one who wouldn't do a lot of things sexually. Why? Because you loved her for other reasons.

It's no different for women. I have no doubt there is a certain kind of guy who has honed his skills and can bring home someone different from the bar all the time. And, some women will see long term in them because that's what they want to see. At the end of the day, that will never last.

I think EVERYONE gets married to some degree with some reliability in mind. Even if it's only perceived reliability. And, if you are married, the red pill shit will not fly long term. It's all a basis really for men to go out and conquer women, not coexist with them in a mutually satisfying emotional and sexual relationship. I dated some redpill sort of guys. Yeah, they can rev the engine, but most of the time they weren't' remotely interested in my finish line. Fuck that. At the end of the day - women and men both want someone who is authentic and will invest in them and their needs.

It's easy to understand that as a loyal, married, man who played by the rules you got burned. But, walking around with that mentality is a story that you keep telling yourself that keeps you locked in misery. If your wife (not yours specifically RIO - talking generally now) is not willing to make an investment in you that shows you that she is all in after being given that opportunity, then all you are doing is torturing yourself (and emasculating yourself) by staying. If you are staying, and she is investing, then at some point (not talking to newbies) you have to put down the story you are telling yourself and holding you back from your own happiness. It's just as easy to believe that your wife was put into a trance by a magical penis as it is to believe that your wife had some shit to fix that had nothing to do with you, what you do or don't do. By the way, the second statement? Infinitely more likely.

[This message edited by hikingout at 10:36 AM, May 7th (Tuesday)]