SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

It’s called “choreplay” fellas and it leads to foreplay and foreplay leads to, well, I hope you can take it from here.

Except that, speaking personally, "choreplay" was wildly ineffective as a way to stimulate desire. And I've read that's often the case; "If I had more time and didn't have to do the dishes, we'd have more sex" is a red herring. Now, of course, if you're really doing crap at home and your spouse really is picking up all the slack, maybe it's legit. But most of the time it's just a misdirection from the real issue.

Here's the best argument against choreplay. How many times did the AP take out the trash? Wash your clothes? Paint the house? Mow the lawn? And, in your typical A, there's plenty of sex, often a shocking amount of sex. If choreplay was an effective way to get more sex, you'd see a lot of AP's out there with a box of Tide and a tool belt as their "pickup new AP" go to props.

My even keel way of life, instead of being an asset for my wife to cherish, became something she resented, even though she never told me.

I sort of think they do it because they want to bring us down to their level. They see all that they want to be, but don't want to do the work to get there. So they make excuses as to why they're good and we need to be brought down to size. They hurt, we don't. So they think that if they unload their hurt onto us, they won't be alone in it or won't hurt.

Sounds insane, but then again, how does fooling around with someone else make them feel about their marriage to begin with? How does lying and cheating fix what's wrong with them?

Nottheman….

I hope I'm not marginalizing at all. I am a sappy romantic at heart. LOL. It does matter to me and at the time mattered to her pre/post affair. Just not during, it was all expected and taken for granted.

Hikingout,

You are correct communicating is key. During the A, I would throw this at her (in her face) what about all the assistance I give, when zero of my friends help their wives. She would never show gratitude, only fault. Had she merely said, something to the effect of "these aren't my love languages" or had I "said, why don't you view them as loving acts", we could have went down a different path on this topic.

optionedout,

The acts of love you demonstrated were important and meaningful. Unfortunately, they were unappreciated by your WS.

I totally get where your coming from. WW had it all, adoring, attentive, involved husband. Big house, fancy cars, trips, frequent flier to tiffany's, worked part time to "stay busy". Along comes Droopy dog and zero of that mattered. What was more important was maintaining all the above, but whoring herself out to a relative stranger who degraded and debased her. Total Plan B here.

Heysoos, cocoplus5nuts, are you sure that you don't coach PUA's for a living?

Maybe I should be. Is there money in that?

Striver, you said it perfectly. Men are constantly in competition with each other for mates. The sexual insecurity continues because, now more than ever, BHs know what could happen. That, however, does not actually mean that the BH was or is somehow less than.

What numb&dumb's W said. All those "boring" qualities were the precursor to my physical attraction to my H. I was not physically attracted to him when we first met, even though he told he is very attractive. In fact, I went home and laughed to my mom about this weird guy I had just met. I'm going to admit something that is probably going to piss off some people. I agreed to go out with him the 1st just so I could get a free lunch even though I could easily pay for my own. 😬

Going back to read more because I only got through page 7 or 8 before thinking I should probably post before I forget everything.

Sounds insane

It is all insane, and no amount of sane logical thinking will ever be able to give a satisfactory explanation. As a part of her recovery, my wife has given me 50 or so specific things that she has come up with that led her down the path of her affairs. It never will make sense to me.

If choreplay was an effective way to get more sex, you'd see a lot of AP's out there with a box of Tide and a tool belt as their "pickup new AP" go to props.

The APs got sex because they asked for it. That is how it went down for one of my wife's APs...they talked, he sensed the brokenness and he simply asked. She said yes. WTF?

I totally get where your coming from. WW had it all, adoring, attentive, involved husband. Big house, fancy cars, trips, frequent flier to tiffany's, worked part time to "stay busy". Along comes Droopy dog and zero of that mattered. What was more important was maintaining all the above, but whoring herself out to a relative stranger who degraded and debased her. Total Plan B here.

Good lord, Brennan...I've been a broke single mom doing EVERYTHING for most of my adult life and haven't even entertained the concept of having any of those benefits. I cannot overstate the gratitude I would have for a faithful husband like that. Seriously. I don't understand why you put all that at risk just to get laid with a stranger. I can't conceive of having a "good provider" much less treating them like Plan B.

I totally get where your coming from. WW had it all, adoring, attentive, involved husband. Big house, fancy cars, trips, frequent flier to tiffany's, worked part time to "stay busy". Along comes Droopy dog and zero of that mattered. What was more important was maintaining all the above, but whoring herself out to a relative stranger who degraded and debased her. Total Plan B here.

^^^^^Because affairs/infidelity having nothing to do with the BS's deficiencies and/or the marriages deficiencies. It has all to do with the WS's deficiencies and they are not related to us or the marriage. Although many WS's will try to lay that at our feet or the marriages feet. ^^^^^^^

I cannot overstate the gratitude I would have for a faithful husband like that. Seriously. I don't understand why you put all that at risk just to get laid with a stranger.

@DD, because you don't have the WS mindset. We do not think as they do, so it is very difficult for us to wrap our heads around. But, it happens all. the. time. to the rich and famous. They are not immune and get cheated on/cheat as much as us common folk.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 12:13 PM, May 3rd (Friday)]

In higher intelligent species, such as apes and dolphins, there is a high amount of coercive sex.

Yes, there is coercive sex and rape, in humans, too, obviously. But, even in those species, there is a lot of Male posturing to attract female mates. It can be contradictive. Nothing is absolute. It's all theory.

There is always a combo of nature and nurture. However, I maintain that if you don't have the nature, the nurture can't cause it. Nature, otoh, can cause us to act contrary to nurture.

WRT choreplay, I don't consciously think, "Ooooh, my H made coffee. I'm going to rock his world later!" It's an overall perception that my H contributes more than just a paycheck to the family. The thing that makes me feel the most loving toward him is when he is being loving toward our children. The fastest way to turn me off is to behave not so loving toward one of them.

On the flip side, I got mad at my H last night because we hadn't really seen each other for 2 days, and when he got home, he chose to do the dishes rather than come to bed. 😠

"choreplay" was wildly ineffective as a way to stimulate desire. And I've read that's often the case; "If I had more time and didn't have to do the dishes, we'd have more sex" is a red herring.

@RIO, it may have been seen that way for my FWH. He didn't help me at all to get to bed with him by caring for the children or dinner clean up and preparing for the next day. He worked a lot of hours, more than 50 usually. I didn't expect much, but he didn't help at all but complained I would get into bed after he was asleep. When I would tell him that maybe if he helped with getting all the chores taken care of that I needed to do before bed we could get into bed together. So, he would maybe help for a few days. And was than pissy that I wasn't fucking his brains out. Yeah, sorry, one week or a few days isn't going to make up for the fact that I had to harass you into helping. You haven't really made any inroads into the damage you have caused for years by your utter selfishness. Sorry. Show me some RELIABILITY and true caring and not just a payoff for your selfish wants and then maybe we would be fucking each others brains out. My experience.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 12:20 PM, May 3rd (Friday)]

Because affairs/infidelity having nothing to do with the BS's deficiencies and/or the marriages deficiencies. It has all to do with the WS's deficiencies and they are not related to us or the marriage.

This! ^^^^^^^^

This is why I maintain that the BH is not plan B, sexually or otherwise, no matter how much you feel it. It wasn't about you in any way. It was all and only about the broken, selfish, immoral, etc. CP.

RIO, choreplay is not about doing for the sole intent or expectation of getting sex. It's about doing it because you know your partner appreciates it, like taking your W shopping. That's a chore for you, no?

The reason sex was given so freely in an A without any of the precursors is because it wasn't real life. If we didn't have to do anything like work or clean or wipe someone else's butt or try to wrestle them into a carseat to try to get to the doctor on time, we'd all probably be having sex all the time. Kinda like dating. 😉

My ex-wife's secret weakness was nipple play. Riled her up like nothing else. Didn't even have to start there, just migrate there casually while we cuddled. She couldn't give a fuck less about what chores I did or didn't do that day. She wasn't overtly sexual, but she was game once you reminded her how much she enjoyed getting off. Sex to her was a purely self-serving act.

Ironically, she probably chose AP because he was more "reliable" in the sense that he had a job and at the time I didn't, plus he probably showered her with gifts and praise, like they all do.

This is why I maintain that the BH is not plan B, sexually or otherwise, no matter how much you feel it. It wasn't about you in any way. It was all and only about the broken, selfish, immoral, etc. CP.

Exactly. And, if you want to keep the narrative that you are Plan B, whilst reconciling, you are not going to be happy. Now, if your WS isn't truly remorseful, I understand how you will feel like Plan B. But, I am now talking about fully remorseful "woke" WS's who are reconciling. If you want to keep the narrative that you are Plan B in a reconciling marriage you are doing yourself harm. You are keeping yourself in victim mode. And, don't get me wrong, we are victims. However, you need to move from victim to survivor. And, if you find yourself stuck in victim mode or feeling like Plan B, you need to do some work on yourself. You may need IC to explore all that or do some reading on the subject or just some really deep introspection on what you want and expect.

plus he probably showered her with gifts and praise, like they all do.

My FWH did not give It any gifts during his 7 year LTA. They sure did blow a lot of sunshine up each others ass's, though.

Because affairs/infidelity having nothing to do with the BS's deficiencies and/or the marriages deficiencies. It has all to do with the WS's deficiencies and they are not related to us or the marriage. Although many WS's will try to lay that at our feet or the marriages feet.

This.

I was the one with the house, a paid off sporty car, made 60% more money. I had zero debt except for a house payment. I paid all bills, including credit cards in full when due. I saved lots of money. I had a nice savings account and over a year's worth of living expenses in savings. My checking account alone was 4 months worth of savings. His friends and coworkers kept telling him how hot his gf was. How nice, sweet, smart, kind, sexy, talented.

And I doted on him. Totally, blindly, happily doted on him. Bought a fancier sports car. Tried harder and harder and HARDER to get him to see me.

Instead, he only had eyes for high school exes, sleazy strippers, and a woman who tried seducing two other married men before being rejected. She had problems with coworkers, picked arguments, was never happy and always complained. Overweight, ugly as sin, perpetually unhappy, and never wore anything other than ill-fitting clothes. She set her sights on WH as her third choice (actually, she also was complaining about 3-4 other 'boyfriends' who were probably also married. And WH said, "Yep! I want that. Wife Appliance thinks I'm God, and she'll just wait her turn and be there when I want her."

It's totally them. Things get hard? Cheat! Have an affair and pretend like like responsibilities are for the other spouse!

Meanwhile, the BS looks at challenges as partners climbing Mt Everest and TOGETHER sticking the flag in the snow at the top. Them? They'll screw the person flying a helicopter to drop them off at the top, stick the flag in the snow, and then tell their spouse that they didn't realize how hard things were for them, or that they had to cheat because the number nine smelled like purple!

And what do we do? Try to unravel that.

Yeah.

No.

Unravel what makes us betray ourselves by buying into that crap and not calling them out. On seeing the flags and not putting our foot down right then and there. Instead we tried to be nice, kind, etc. I see where it got me - Option... whatever.

So now I just say, "Bullshit. And if that's the shit sandwich excuse you're serving, I'm not buying. Grow up or get out."

But like another posted said. I have ZERO illusions that I was ever anything but an option. And since OW told him good riddance, he's of course choosing me.

Well, duh. Because there isn't anyone else.

At the moment. Time will tell. Now, I focus on me and my self worth, personal growth, and getting ducks in a row in case he can't adult today or tomorrow, or the third Tuesday of whenever.

[This message edited by OptionedOut at 12:41 PM, May 3rd (Friday)]

The reason sex was given so freely in an A without any of the precursors is because it wasn't real life. If we didn't have to do anything like work or clean or wipe someone else's butt or try to wrestle them into a carseat to try to get to the doctor on time, we'd all probably be having sex all the time. Kinda like dating. 😉

Except that my W was still working and cleaning AND sleeping with me and the AP during the A. Seemed to find plenty of time all the sudden for a LOT more sex than we'd been having in our M. No kids to wrestle in the car seat, although the AP had them, and yes, amazingly, he found time for lots of sex too.

I'm sorry, all this reads to me like poor excuses. Yes, some husbands are awful. MOST AP's are worse. They don't do crap for the WW, they show up, d**k in hand and get more sex than the husband got in a month. If it was common that in an A the WH would come over, do the dishes, mop the floors, put the kids to bed then get wild monkey sex for hours, I'd tend to agree with you, that's the path to more sex. But that's not at all how it works, at least not typically.

My FWH did not give It any gifts during his 7 year LTA. They sure did blow a lot of sunshine up each others ass's, though.

No gifts either. Words and semen were the only things on offer for my W.

How about this...

Why the hell do you think the dishes, bathing the children, vacumming is my fucking job to begin with? It's not. I work, I make the same amount of money as my husband (a little more actuallyl).

This choreplay stuff...I don't get a reward for paying the bills, going to the store, doing laundry...I think you all are really looking at this wrong.

It's not choreplay - it's there is always so much to do that it's overwhelming when someone wants you to do 2 - 3 full time jobs well. I think the job being one, the household running the second, and the child-raising third. When women are saying you might get more sex if you help with those things it's because we are fucking exhausted. Not to make it a tit-for-tat situation. You do x and I will do y. No, no, no. You all have this so very wrong.

If you want physical intimacy, it's done through emotional intimacy. Nothing excuses an affair, nothing. So, what I am about to say isn't about "he should have been doing x and I wouldn't have cheated"....it's in response to this:

How many times did the AP take out the trash? Wash your clothes? Paint the house? Mow the lawn?

That's not what makes me want to have sex anyway. What makes me want to have sex is someone who wants to spend time with me, build me up, tell me nice things, make me feel important to them. Unfortunately, that's what the AP was an expert at creating falsely. That's not to say I should have fallen for that, or I should have even given him an opportunity to do those things, but it's why it's effective.

You do the things in the house not to get sex, but because your wife is your equal partner. The expectations on women today is carried forth by what our generations never corrected. When women went to work while the men were at war, they carried it all. The men came home and went back to work but everyone failed to see the dynamics have changed.

In my home, I am still the full-time chore doer, but the ONLY reason that is the case is because my H is still working his day job while running his business in his off hours. So, it's fair because I am being his equal partner in picking up the rest that he doesn't have time to do. But, if it weren't for that, I am not falling for the idea that because I am the one with the vagina that I am the only one who knows how the vaccumn or the washer works.

When we had younger children, my days were a pressure cooker. I worked at a demanding job all day, and rushed home to get dinner started and homework going, laundry going, pets feeding, trying to wipe out some other chores so I would have free time on the weekend somewhere. And, most of the time that didn't happen either. You don't do chores to get sex, you do chores because it's your job.

t/j

What is the opposite gender equivalent of "choreplay?"

For real I am asking. . .for a friend.

end t/j

Hikingout, THANK YOU!! Yes!

Preach it.

My dad gets praised because he does the dishes and vacuums and all that. Always struck me as odd, given that they both worked full-time and retired near the same time. Both had office jobs. The kids and dishes and chores never belonged to my mom. They both still do yardwork. The lawn doesn't belong to my dad. However, Dad has always gotten credit for doing so much and the assumption behind that is that all the household stuff is Mom's job. Thankfully he hasn't seen it that way.