SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Sorry to hear about your situation SCP. I don't see any issue with not wanting details. The details make no difference if you have immovable morals. If you can't live with your wife having two plus years of daily sex with another man, then you don't need the details to make your decision. I didn't get every detail of my ex's affair. I didn't need all of them to know that she broke her vows to me and that I didn't want to be married to her anymore. Once I came to an understanding of the depth of what happened, I divorced her and I'm glad I did. She can now do what she wants with whomever she wants because she's no longer my problem.

I would suggest that regardless of your decision, you see a good men's divorce lawyer and learn what divorce will look like for you. Then have him/her begin the process of drawing up a divorce agreement. The idea is to get the ball rolling now so it goes as smooth and as quickly as possible once you do decide what you're going to do. Additionally, the divorce agreement can become a post-nuptial agreement if you choose to remain married so the retainer doesn't go to waste.

I'd also suggest that you begin the process of separating your finances and belongings. Decide what's yours and what's hers. Separate your bank accounts into his and hers. Begin the process now so again you're prepared for divorce if you choose that direction.

30 years is a lot of time with one person. I'd spent over 26 with my ex and I still had underage kids. It gets better from here. You're making good choices by moving in with your brother and resting and relaxing for a period of time. Take care of yourself and know that your future is of your choosing at this point. Decide what's best for you.

SCP: Have you had any conversations with the POSOM's betrayed wife? Often people find that a conversation with the betrayed other wife (BOW) is a way to start gathering information about the A without directly confronting your WW.

I would not be divorcing her because I am avoiding the questions. I would be divorcing her because she had sex with another man for two years.

If you divorced her for that reason, that would be a rational decision. Many men have made that decision.

But your OP is not entitled: "My Wayward Wife Fucked Another Man Every Weekday for Two Years and I Am Divorcing Her." It is entitled: "Having a Very Hard Time with Sexual Details of Wife's Affair." Therefore, we are trying to offer advice with respect to asking your WW about the sexual details of her A.

As you indicate, one of the threshold issues is whether you want to know those details, at all. If, for example, you know with 100% certainty that you are going to D, then perhaps there is no useful reason to get that information from her. But perhaps there is. This is personal and subjective to you. Will these questions haunt you even if you D?

By the way, I haven't seen this mentioned, but you should get tested for STD's, and you should ask her if she has been tested. If so, ask her for a copy of the results.

But I digress. Aside from whether to D or R, the title of your post suggests that you may wish to know this information. To that end, I think most of us believe that the best decisions are made in the bright light of the most information.

I do agree with Bigger (above) in that it's likely your WW is gobsmacked by how real shit got for her. She is a deer in the headlights at this point. Therefore, if there is to be communication about this, it is probably incumbent upon you to initiate it.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 12:55 PM, September 24th (Monday)]

You have no idea if they laughed at me or ever talked about leaving me.

Her AP was ten years younger than her. He is married to a late thirties woman who is very attractive. They have three kids.

I seriously doubt he would leave his very attractive wife who is the mother of his three children for my mid-fifties wife. How many mid-forties men do you see with mid-fifties women ? How many men have you seen leave a very attractive late thirties woman for a mid-fifties woman ?

Also, they never talked outside of work so I doubt they were in love. If they were not in love they were not considering leaving their spouses to be together.

I know you're in shock, and don't think your WW was/is capable of such a thing, but then you didn't think she was capable of cheating and for 2 YEARS, at this point you don't even know for sure if this was her only A during your M and yes it's only natural for people in LTAs to talk about leaving their spouses, even though they don't mean it, and yes we've seen it here and other infidelity sites where WW/WH leaves for OM/OW regardless of age and children involved, that doesn't mean they were happily ever after (the great majority don't). Did they laugh/joke about you or OBS behind your backs, most likely, 2 years is a long time and of course they normally talk about the flaws in their M to justify their A, and yes lots of ILYs, don't think for a second she doesn't have feelings for him, she DOES to what extent, that's unknown but you don't carry a 2 year LTA without feelings of luuuuve, she was in fantasy land for 2 years and never expected to get caught, this could have gone on for much more longer if they weren't caught.

Every case is different but cheaters follow a typical script, the only thing this case is special is that it happened to you, if you read long enough here you will see the similarities.

Have you EXPOSED the A with all her family and close friends yet ? she's not remorseful, she's still pining for her boyfriend who dumped her to save his own skin, she probably thought she meant more to him and now feels used.

Again intended no harm with my comments but to emphasize this is not the same woman you married, she killed the innocence of the M and your blind trust for her FOREVER, don't believe anything from her that you can't verify, remember she's a PROVEN cheater and a LIAR and did so in your face for 2 years.

SCP, I didn't ask the questions you're being advised to ask because I had no need of that information. I had zero intention or desire to try to reconcile. The relatively long duration of her affair (nowhere near two years), made me absolutely certain I couldn't continue with her. Therefore the specific acts and the particulars mattered to me not at all. There are BH's here who have reconciled after much much worse (years and years in duration, being impregnated by the OM, taking their children on vacation with the AP, sexual acts denied to the BH... etc, etc, ad nauseam), so if reconciliation is what you want, apparently it can be done. If you're divorcing her, then it's my position that you don't need to go down that road any more than I did.

[This message edited by LtCdrLost at 1:26 PM, September 24th (Monday)]

I agree with LtCdrLost, if you are leaning heavily towards D. If you decide early that it is too much to bear to try R, or you determine that your WW is not capable or interested in remorse, empathy, contrition, etc., then I would just label the whole shit sandwich and all her all about be reason under the file of "broken beyond repair". If that is where you get to. Detach. Look forward. Never look back.

The reasons she did all that she did, from the smallest lie to the biggest betrayal is a combination of things you can't likely fathom or make sense of.

Stay where you are for now. Enjoy the peace of the country.

So why isn’t she with him?

Why aren’t they together?

I think SweetCP said that the OM sent his WW a NC letter.

SCP,

Yes, it is possible to deal with all the details, but getting them is the hard part. I was "fortunate" that I discovered a list she had made with her and the Om's sexual history, both before and after being married.

So to answer Buster's posts, don't assume you know the whole story. My best guess is that I got about 70%, and I knew a lot from snooping and investigation before I confronted. I had no idea she was having a seven year affair at work, (yes, lunch dates) and had cheated with at least 6 other men, mostly from her work, during our marriage. So I can testify that don't assume anything. Some women get so good at lying that you never really know.

You better be prepared to be objective and unemotional if you really want the details. I needed to know where I was starting from, and my WW was sure I'd divorce her that first day.

I gave mine a list of questions that I required answers to. Failure to answer was divorce. Getting caught in the smallest of lies-divorce. Failing to be completely honest with me-divorce. Any contacts whatsoever that I found out about before she told me- divorce.

I had to get to the point where I really didn't care if I was married to her or not.

If she didn't want to put forth the effort -divorce. If she showed she was really wanting to do the work to attempt to fix it, I might give it a try. No promises.

I will tell you that reconciliation has to be a helluva lot harder than divorce through.

She has to answer all the questions, whether she wants to or not. No more playing games.

[This message edited by twisted at 2:55 PM, September 24th (Monday)]

I am leaning toward divorce.

I don't want to have to ask her if she enjoyed sex more with me her husband of 30plus years or her AP. If I have to ask this question I already lost.

The humiliation of the questions and answers is not worth it to me.

The fact that she had a two year sexual affair is probably a deal breaker for me. I am coming to that conclusion.

[This message edited by SweetCreamPie at 3:45 PM, September 24th (Monday)]

Yes a PA even if just one time is often a deal breaker and we've seen it many times here and other websites, so if you are 100% sure the 2 year LTA is a deal breaker (it would be to me) then file for D and move on (leaning is not being 100% sure), remember you DID NOT cause this, the A is 100% on her, inform All family and friends the exact reason why you're divorcing, name the OM to them (especially your grown children) and don't allow her to introduce him later as someone she just met.

[This message edited by Buster123 at 4:06 PM, September 24th (Monday)]

I know that you and your WW agreed NC while you try to sort things out. But has she even try to contact you and ask about your well being?

Hotdog

She has not tried to contact me. I told her I needed some time to figure out what I want.

It has only been a day so far.

[This message edited by SweetCreamPie at 4:31 PM, September 24th (Monday)]

I feel for you, this is one of the most crushing situations.

I don't want to ask about WH sexual activity with her but there also remains a morbid fascination that is hard to overcome.

I hope everything works out for you whatever that may be

SCP,

After much consideration, I eventually got over the sexual part, well mostly anyway. I never felt emasculated because I know I'm a good man, a damn good man and husband, and father. Turns out the emotional attachment, and the betrayal and casual disreguard of me and the family is the difficult part.

The obvious answer is some women are fucked up. Why is the question. The marriage was good ( at least I though so), we never fought, money was okay, no previous issues.

I determined it was her emotional stability, maybe early family issues, coping behaviors, maybe some narcissism, a lot of factors.

Either you can figure it out and deal with it, or not. It's your decision in the end.

SCP,

My suggestion:

Take some time to get over the shock first. Then, after a few days, read Bigger post again. It will make more sense then.

You don’t need to take any decisions right now. Eventually, you may choose the D route, in which case the details don’t matter.

You may choose the R route, in which case you may ask as little or as much details as you wish, when you are ready.

You are in control, you decide when you want to know and what you want to know (my opinion some others might disagree with me, which is OK).

Right now, take care of yourself.

I wish you strength.

SH.

The fact that she had a two year sexual affair is probably a deal breaker for me. I am coming to that conclusion.

Perfectly understandable.

I am with Bigger re your wife's reactions. She is just in a state of shock. In fact I think she is actually showing some respect for you in not pleading and begging for forgiveness because how could you possibly do that at this stage.

I too would ask her if she wants the marriage to continue. At least then you can be in control whether she does or she doesn't.

I would process the divorce then you may see her change, even panic and try and contact you. I would maintain the 180, apart from that one question, but find someone to check up on her state of health as in my view from her initial cold reaction and lack of emotion she could turn full circle and may have a breakdown when she actually sees the consequences of her actions materialise.

Don't forget you are the better person here and you don't have to follow her example. Show her strength and composure in the face of her treachery. Do not let her belittle you further.

Are you saying I am being cowardly because I don't want to ask my wife questions like the following:

Hmm ... I don't think any BS is a coward WRT infidelity, so: no.

But your own words say you're letting fear control the questions you ask.

Your posts say you're spending energy thinking about questions, imagining the worst, questioning your own integrity and courage because of your feelings around your questions.

That's soul-destroying, I think.

I encourage you to ask the questions that are bothering you. If you fear an answer, I think you will find it's important to you to ask the question. If the questions you list are questions that are bothering you, I think those are the questions to ask.

Above all, though, we all have to choose our own questions.

If I read you wrong, I apologize. If I read you right, I'll go back to this: asking the questions when the answers scare you is empowering. You really can handle the answers. In addition, you'll stop spending energy on the questions and self-doubt around them and free up that energy for healing.

I'm biased towards asking all the questions that you can think of, because that's what I did and because of some anecdotal data that shows the more communication and the more questions, the happier folks are. (See, for example, http://www.dearpeggy.com/free-pdfs/help-for-therapists.pdf (citation OKed by mod).)

I haven't really read all of the responses.

I have one question for you.

What do you want to do?

That's all there is to it.

I know and understand the the painful betrayal you are agoing through.

I completely relate to the feelings of agony, anger, fear, uncertainty, and distress of being betrayed by one who vowed to protect you.

It is indeed traumatic to go through such an inconceivable backstabbing as this - especially when you have been married for so long and have children together.

Something you must understand right off the bat is that your wife’s behavior and betrayal are not your fault -at all.

Your wife’s infidelity has nothing to do with you or your marriage - nothing.

Her reasons for doing this are all internal to her and even though you have been married for a long time, these reasons have always existed within her - even before you ever met her.

It was not about anything you did or did not do nor anything you said or did not say.

Let’s be clear on something - you have NOT been emasculated.

Your masculinity is NOT determined or validated by your wife nor any other woman - period.

Your masculinity is NOT determined by your wife’s loathesome behavior.

You and you alone are the ONLY one who determines what sense of masculinity you desire to live.

The only humiliation to be felt here is the extreme humiliation that your wife has earned herself.

You have done nothing to feel humiliated about.

As far as asking questions about your wife’s “sexlife” with another man?

Look, she doesn’t have a “sexlife” with this other man.

It is an arrangement - it always is.

The arrangement is that the other man provides cheap and disingenuous “compliments” to her and she in exchange provides sex to keep the compliments coming.

She is in an endorphin and dopamine-filled fantasy world and she has been providing sex to keep the fantasy-high going.

My ex-wife acted exactly the same as yours when it came to telling me anything about what had been going on in her fucked up fantasy world.

She would tell me it was none of my business, get angry, and flee to the also-adulterous, alcoholic, and toxic people she convinced herself were “friends” so that they could give her all the shitty excuses for why none of it was her fault.

It was all a complete and nonnegotiable dealbreaker for me.

She was so far over the line when it came to the infidelity, the lies, the deceit, the disrespect, contempt, and wanting to pretend nothing happened that there was no going back.

All that said, there was never any time I felt emasculated or humiliated on my part - not at all.

I was true to my vows, true to her, true to our marriage, true to our family, and most of all, true to our children.

To this day I am proud of how I conducted myself during our marriage, during her fucking nightmare betrayal, during the divorce, and after the divorce.

I maintained my integrity, my dignity, my honor, and my self respect.

If you are able to keep true to your self and maintain your self respect then you have nothing to feel emasculated or humiliated about.

There is no getting around the pain of betrayal such as this but your honor and integrity are yours alone to determine.

Hopefully, she will open her eyes and see the horror of what she has done and move mountains to save her marriage to you and her relationship with her children.

But, from what you initially describe, it doesn’t bode well.

I can tell you that my ex-wife maintained this flippant asshole attitude towards me all the up to the point that she got my divorce filing - then I got the tearful phone calls wanting to talk.

I was way, way, way too far gone at that point - no going back for me.

As others may say here, you must be willing to end your marriage in order to possibly save it.

Best of luck to you in whatever course you decide to take.

There’s no rule that says you need to make any final decision now. In fact most advice here is to wait and see how you feel. You’re in shock right now. Most of us were at this early stage. I was.

Don’t kick yourself for not knowing your WW was having a LTA. Bro my WW was a serial cheater for years and had a bunch of LTAs. To this day I don’t know the details. I know maybe 2 percent. And I’m an Ivy League law school grad. I got a perfect score on my LSATs for crying out loud. These lying cheaters go to great lengths to hide their shameful conduct. Guys like us trust our wives. We were raised right. There’s no shame in trusting your wife.

SweetCreamPie, I am very sorry to hear your story, and how your wife is reacting. I have also been married a very long time, and after 20 months now of finding out, I still feel like I am in shock at times. I still can't believe how he lied and betrayed me by having two affairs. After 25 years, he decided to just throw it all away and destroy me to the core. Not to minimize anyone else's suffering and pain, but I believe it takes a special kind of cruelty to be with someone for so long, to basically grow up together, raise children, live a life together and then stab that person in the back. If not them, who can you trust? It leaves you devoid of hope in humanity.