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Emotionless Infidelity Part 4

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Maclou posted 7/21/2018 10:23 AM

Thanks Marji,
Things are going well for us and I am feeling really positive.

I had struggled a lot with accepting that it was a one off infidelity. This week, I have decided to accept it. We had a dreadful year last year and I think WH had a breakdown basically. He is most definitely remorseful and is horrified by what he did.

Iíve also decided that thereís no point monitoring his emails, texts etc. Even if I had checked everything last year, I couldnít have predicted or prevented the infidelity. It is therefore pointless. Iíve reaffirmed to him that if there is a further infidelity, I will not work with him to repair the marriage. He knows and accepts this.

I feel like weíve made really good progress despite the fact that our MC has been on leave since May.

I know that things can change in a heartbeat but after being through a very tough year, Iím giving myself a break and channelling positivity.

The anniversary of the infidelity is looming and we have a busy weekend planned to distract us. Weíve also got a short break without the children planned.

DDay isnít a big deal for me, the anniversary is a much bigger deal as I know what time on that date he was being unfaithful.

Hopefully the next few weeks will be uneventful and year one will be behind us.

I hope that everyone is having a good weekend. Iíve had a lovely day today spending time with WH and our 3 kids.

Life is good 😊

Maclou posted 7/21/2018 10:34 AM

Superesse and Rebplay,
Thanks for your replies.
Superesse, Iíve checked her profile and she uses CBT and psychodynamic therapy. What youíve said and how youíve explained it makes a lot of sense to me.

From what he says, this is what sheís doing. He said sheíll stop him mid sentence and make him explain why he said something and why he thinks he feels that and what he can do if it happens again etc. If she is using ďdevilís advocate ď type therapy, Iím fine with that. I have no problem with anything that sheís doing apart from the odd comment that he makes about something that sheís said about me and the negativity after some sessions.

He has his IC over Skype due to our location so a lobby meeting wonít work unfortunately.

I will wait and see how things progress but the most important thing is that he is happy with what she is doing and engaging in the process.

He says after sessions that he understands why he does things better, he had very little insight into himself before this. He has a very high pressure job and he says that the work that heís doing with the IC has helped him with his people management skills and he is definitely better able to leave work at work.

All of our married life, he has worked long days and spent evenings and weekends on his laptop. He sees now how harmful that has been to us. She has definitely done him a lot of good so Iíll have to take the bad with it I suppose.

The negativity is generally just immediately after the session. Where it becomes a problem is if there is another issue at the same time. For example, last week, I was feeling quite low and we had a bad week so add in some negativity from him to me and weíre fighting. Weíve decided to start seeing another MC in September once vacation is over to help with communication etc so hopefully we can get ahead of situations like that.
Thanks to all of you for your interest and helpful suggestions 😊

[This message edited by Maclou at 10:51 AM, July 21st (Saturday)]

rebplay posted 7/22/2018 07:41 AM

Maclou- sounds like you think his therapy is mostly positive so thatís a great thing. If youíre feeling comfortable about it now thatís what matters. Sounds like things are going better overall and Iím happy for you.

Maclou posted 7/23/2018 00:25 AM

Thanks Rebplay,
I know it might not last but Iím enjoying things while theyíre good. Hope things are good for you

Shocked123 posted 7/23/2018 13:15 PM

Help! I can't stop these mind movies. The thought of these women fondling my husband is driving me insane. I picture these women massaging him, offering additional services which he probably didn't say no to...
When I sit and imagine this I cringe with humiliation for myself and for him, How could he leave our home and know he was going to do such a thing that day. How did he come home and face us? We work together, how did I not notice his coming and going all those years?
Claims he had handjobs and a "few" blow jobs. Does anyone with these type of experience actually believe that? We were in a sexless marriage basically. He must have been craving intercourse. I am absolutely beside myself with the thought of these young things taking care of my husband's sexual needs.
Please, any advice is welcome. I'm not accepting this very well, even after 3 months now.
He is full of remorse, sees a therapist individually and we go together as well.

Maclou posted 7/23/2018 14:50 PM

Hi Shocked,
The mind movies are terrible. I think unfortunately that time is the best healer for them.
I got rid of some by ďreclaimingĒ ie-doing with WH what I was imagining him doing with her.
He also started giving me massages at night which really relax me and help me to sleep and are most definitely something that he didnít do for her.
I got mind movies during sex a lot. I found playing music helped with them-having sex helped me as when we are intimate, I feel closer to WH and I didnít want to give that up.
Also, when I asked him to put on music, he knew that I was triggering and was more sensitive.
Not sure if any of that will help you but I hope that they get better soon

Shocked123 posted 7/23/2018 15:17 PM

Thank you Maclou. That does help. I will try music to divert my attention when with him. Unfortunately I have at least 10 years to try to erase, in many countries and with probably at least a hundred women. Sometimes I wonder why I am doing this to myself.

rebplay posted 7/23/2018 18:50 PM

Shocked- the mind movies are terrible. I too had them during intimacy. It was time that helped most. I tried otherís suggestions of focusing on the moment, what Iím feeling etc. it was hard work trying to stay focused on the moment. It turned me off cause I had to concentrate so hard, but it was better than the mind movies. Itís over three years for me and I am just now starting to enjoy sex with my h. We didnít have any intimacy issues before infidelity and our sex (I thought) was awesome. Iím not ďall betterĒ now but I can tolerate it more and actually enjoy it some but only recently :(. Iím so sorry.

Shocked123 posted 7/23/2018 19:07 PM

Thank you Rebplay. Imagine that my husband witheld sex for over 10 years and chose these prostitutes over me!
I don't know, maybe it's just not worth repairing. Just awful. I'm sorry you've been through a similar experience.

sami1234 posted 7/24/2018 14:27 PM

I'm not accepting this very well, even after 3 months now. [

Shocked123 this is no time at all. Three months is nothing. Most of us have been at this a LOT longer and still deal with the roller coaster every single day. Mine is three years out and I still find my jaw on the ground. Hoping he is doing the work to reassure you and you can find some peace and boundaries in your M. This is going to take time. In the meantime take good care of you and pamper yourself because you deserve it.

Mindi movies are hard but we do bring them on ourselves. We, as human beings, are conditioned to focus on the threat in order to keep ourselves safe. But imagine, what if we focused on the good! What if our "mind movies" played over and over about the very best day we ever had with our WH. OR, what if our mind movies played over and over about an average day we had with our WH. It is interesting that our mind focuses on the very worst thing, not the average thing and not the good thing. Just food for thought about how we process our experiences in general.

marji posted 7/24/2018 20:14 PM

Shocked Some men do not want to be bothered with intercourse as such. Not everyone wants/likes/pays for the same thing. My H visited the parlors twice weekly for ten years; he didn't want to have intercourse with those women; he wanted the service that he went and payed for. So Im guessing that's what your H wanted to.

That my H didn't have intercourse with these women, that he didn't have a traditional affair with a particular AP does not make things better for me. It's been three years now and I cannot kiss or show any form of affection. My H was leading a sick, pathetic, exploitative and degrading double life. He has sullied our relationship; he's tainted the very core of it. We do continue to live together but as friends and I avoid doing anything that will trigger me or cause discomfort. I can feel enough of that even with serious avoidance.

I hope you are working with a good IC and even a good support group to help you regain balance; it can take many years to recover from the the shock and trauma of discovery; it can take many years to repair a terribly damaged relationship. In time, Im sure you will be able to decide if your relationship and your H is worth the effort. In the meantime, do each day things that make you feel better and try to avoid each day things that can add to your trauma. Try to focus on yourself--try to tune in to what you want and what you want from your H. The mind movies typically fade with time--time is the great friend-time and the work that you do during the time to process the trauma.

Willow21 posted 7/24/2018 21:55 PM

I'm glad I have stumbled across this threat, titled exactly what I am going through. My husband and I have only been married 3 years now. He is experiencing some mental health issues and to sum things up in short, suddenly feels guilt and decided to share with me an experience he had on the night of his bachelor party at a massage parlor and that through his lowest moment in this health issue went a 2nd time during a work trip out of country with a co-worker. Its been about 6 months since he has disclosed this to me, and by no means do the days get any better. I wonder how the hell he could keep this from me and still marry me? To save face infront of our guests by me not canceling or postponing the wedding? And then that it happened not only once but twice? How do you trust that this is all? How does your loyal husband go from never flirting or being even semi inappropriate with women to this? Were a younger couple but spent almost 12 yrs together in total between marriage and dating. Ive been weighing out what to do for months now and can't seem to find clarity on either direction through therapy and distance from him...any advice is appreciated. Hurt and confused.

sami1234 posted 7/25/2018 07:49 AM

willow21: I'm so sorry you are here but you will find many of us in this situation so please note that you are not alone. First things first is to take care of yourself. This is all a pretty new revelation based on your post. Get your rest, eat well, stay hydrated and continue with individual counseling. Your H needs individual counseling in order to go forward. It sounds like you all are separated at this point? Hard to tell from your post.

Honestly you cannot trust what he said. It is likely there is more going on that he hasn't told you, at least that has been the experience for most of us. Most of us have experienced "trickle truth" little bits of things that come out over time.

Clarity in any one single direction is elusive, at best. Most of us find that there are times we want to stay, make things work, and the next day think we have to leave. It truly is a roller coaster ride. It takes time and for me it has been three years. BUT mostly it will take him doing a LOT of work to reassure you and to make you feel safe. Is HE doing anything to heal himself, change his behaviors, reassure you and make you feel safe?

Willow21 posted 7/25/2018 17:52 PM

Thank you for the reply and assurance that it's not just me thinking there is more. He is in therapy for himself and feels, or at least says and acts as if he is extremely remorseful...I just feel the only reason the info came out was because he felt I would hear it from other sources. We are still living in the same house, awkwardly and mainly in eggshells and I leave a lot for nights away and asked him to leave for 3 weeks recently. Some decent days together but I mainly can not get past the betrayal. It is about 6 months new to me and I have no idea how to cope

[This message edited by Willow21 at 5:55 PM, July 25th (Wednesday)]

Hardroadout posted 7/25/2018 22:21 PM

I have not yet come through this thread but I have clearly missed some very helpful and relatable posts.

My WS was also pinned as ASD after dday. That diagnosis came after several months of observation by MC/IC and individual meetings with us both.

I will never forget sobbing to IC that I didn't get it because he had done this or that or another thing, things that were SO KIND that served him in no way, so it couldn't be NPD or other personality disorder, and yet, he betrayed me with dozens of women. It was just a few sessions after that when she sat us down and discussed ASD.

I read an article sometime later about ASD partners (it was called something like "When Narcissism Just Doesnít Explain Your Partnerís Inability to Empathize") and it made so much sense. I'd highly recommend it to all of you ASD BSs.

Regarding therapy for adult-diagnosed men, IC/MC says that they CAN and DO develop more appropriate social skills (this really is an understatement for their deficits) and coping mechanisms.

Unfortunately for us, it is slow, slow progress. And there are many things that will never really change. One example in my marriage is his ability to say the most astoundingly hurtful, but often truthful, things. Several months ago, he made the observation that my breasts "sag." My God, how that stung after being betrayed! Was it true? Yes. I am not a spring chicken and I breastfed my children. Because it is true, he just doesn't understand why it hurts so much.

I have gone round and round with how infidelity and ASD person's alleged "loyalty to a fault" fit together. I have come to the conclusion that my WS WAS loyal, according to his definition. He has never "loved" another woman, and I doubt he ever would, even if I left. He just did not equate loyalty with sex. Yes, in some way, he understood that it was wrong. But his conception of the wrongness of it was because "the rules" said so. Not because it conflicted with his love. It didn't.

In a convoluted way, cheating sort of even comported with his loyalty to me. I was a very busy woman in college, then with babies, then work, then grad school. He "loved" me dearly. He did not want to be selfish with me. So it made twisted "sense" to him to go be a selfish pig elsewhere. Sex with me was giving, loving, generous. It was not quick, cheap, hit it and quit it. So he got his selfish quickies elsewhere instead of "bothering" me with them. And, if he had to break the rules to do that, no big deal, he was doing me a favor, and what you don't know, doesn't hurt, right?

Sex was also a coping mechanism, perhaps for chronic under/over stimulation, for my WS. This is not atypical for those on ASD. I've read a good bit since his diagnosis, and it appears that "deviance" of various types, including sex, is in the realm of "normal" for those on the spectrum, despite the consequences, as a coping mechanism. It is not uncommon for those on the spectrum to end up turning to drugs, petty crime, etc.

It may have also been my WS's special interest. Persons on the spectrum can have any number of odd special interests. I read of one man who was obsessed with trains to the point that he repeatedly violated major laws to get near them. If I recall correctly, he eventually hijacked a train. I've read case studies where people can also become objects of their special interests, so why not sex?

Peace to all of us.

Superesse posted 7/25/2018 23:56 PM

Hardroadout, bless you and thank you for sharing what you have had to endure, and learn. As you say, the oft-repeated descriptor "loyal to a fault" Aspergers trait sure doesn't fit the reality of easily tossing marriage vows aside, does it?

If you could share some info on how this particular kind of deviance has been shown to be associated with people "on the spectrum," I think several BS here would be appreciative. Me, especially.

sami1234 posted 7/26/2018 07:15 AM

So he got his selfish quickies elsewhere instead of "bothering" me with them.

Hardroadout: This is exactly what my WH said to me, that he didn't want to "bother" me. So he'd rather betray me than "bother" me. Mindblown by that logic.

Keep in mind that Asperger's is a "syndrome" not a testable disease. Meaning there is a clear cut test for most diseases and you have them or you don't have them. Behavioral syndromes are more difficult to diagnose. They are clusters of behaviors that tend to manifest themselves together. Then it is up to some clinician to decide at which point someone is on the "spectrum." I have even seen clinicians disagree on diagnoses. It's just rather complicated. I'm not trying to defend anyone against a diagnosis for this thread, just food for thought. Anyone can correct me if my understanding is wrong.

I guess that's why I clearly see my WH as having "narcissistic tendencies" yet I don't see him as a narcissist or truly having NPD, although I'm sure some would disagree with me. Is there a difference? I see that he has the capacity to care about others, but that through environmental and FOO circumstances he learned to shut all of that off. I see that he is learning again to care, to find empathy, and often I will test him. I will ask him what a certain person is feeling. Or when someone makes an emotional statement I will ask him if he knows what that means. I used to just think his lack of understanding was his being "dense" but now I see it was a complete lack of empathy. He is now able to get a LOT closer to these things than he used to. He says he realizes now he went through life with blinders on. Guess that's one way to put it.

Does any of that matter? I guess it does if someone can recognize these things and learn to change, learn to care, learn to empathize. If not you are stuck with the situation and can you manage a relationship with someone who truly cannot change?

Willow21: Have you done any MC together?

rebplay posted 7/26/2018 15:35 PM

Willow- you feel crazy,but youíre not. Youíre in a trauma, life altering state of being right now. Six months out is VERY early. Iím over three years out and am starting to feel better in some ways BUT not anywhere completely healed. The rollercoaster is harsh. Youíre world feels totally out of gravity and nothings right anymore. Time helps with a trying spouse. And more time. You donít have to decide right now what you want. Just doing day to day stuff can be difficult. Focus on YOU right now. Do nice things for yourself. Remember what you like and do it.

rebplay posted 7/26/2018 15:41 PM

Hardroadout- Iím sorry youíre in the infidelity boat with us. Iím sure itís difficult to receive the ASD diagnosis newly while still working on everything else. Sounds like youíve dived in with research and such. We search and search for the whys. Itís helpful but I donít know if we ever truly reach a point of understanding cause weíre just not like them. Definately keep researching, learning to cope but just know that thereís never a perfect why. It just hurts that anyone who loves us, can betray us.

rebplay posted 7/26/2018 15:51 PM

Sami/Marji/super- the journey is SO long, isnít it? It still
amazes me the life altering course now. Everything is completely changed. Cheating just wrecks it all. Sometimes I still canít believe I stayed. But then as I get older, I see/understand thereís different needs.

Ok so does anybody not think their partner has spectrum characteristics besides me? Iím just wondering if am a lone boat. I still wonder who my h is and whatís wrong with him to have done this.

[This message edited by rebplay at 8:24 AM, July 28th (Saturday)]

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