SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

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However, what the men, myself included, said there to the WW's was pretty consistent, if you hope/intend to R, you better get over it and offer up "the good stuff" to your BH.

I think you misread that thread. There were far too few individual members posting in that thread to support any generalizations other than, at most, 'some men hold the opinion that...' and 'some women hold the opinion that...'.

[This message edited by sisoon at 2:27 PM, March 27th (Tuesday)]

Walloped (and others, too), am I alone in my sentiments I expressed on here so strongly?

I basically have jealousy over the emotional thing and it's expressions rather than "kink" of any particular kind.

Would you mind responding to that point?

I don't long for threesomes or anal or any other cacophony of things we didn't already do with one another...but...I don't get how she can act like it's so hard or inconvenient to KISS me or initiate things when she had NO PROBLEM with doing that for the man-whores who didn't even know her hardly or give a crap.

I don't understand HER mentality there and I feel kinda like maybe others on here are in a very different camp or mindset I guess.

[This message edited by Cephastion at 3:42 PM, March 27th (Tuesday)]

Cephastion, hard to know why. She was in one emotional and mental state with them and another with you. I hope it gets better with time.

Not certain this fits here but...........

My XW was desperate for me to have an affair - "it would even things up".

She even put in writing that she would not make any difficulty if I had an affair but would want me to tell her when it ended or, if ongoing, after a year. (She refused to give me dates but I'm sure she saw her AP for some months starting about a year before DD, he dumped her and I caught her 5/6 months later on the day they restarted).

Not only did she make the offer, over the next few years two of her "best friends" propositioned me and we went to a dinner party which, it became obvious, was intended to end with partner swapping. I'm certain that she had further APs over the remaining years. (I waited twelve years until the kids were 16/17 before kicking her into touch).

PS - I was happy to turn down all offers - the most beautiful woman (physically and emotionally) that I ever knew was a good friend prior to our SO's independent affairs - guess what happened next.

Cephastion,

I wish I had an answer for you. I don’t. Kissing to me is an expression of love and wanting to be close to someone. We kiss our kids, our parents, grandparents, pets. Not wanting to kiss and be emotional suggests something deeper. But I’m not a therapist or psychologist (I just play one on TV ).

If you are working at R this is something she should be talking to her IC about or the two of you together in MC. It needs to be addressed. Again, it’s not the act itself, it’s what it signifies.

I think you misread that thread. There were far too few individual members posting in that thread to support any generalizations other than, at most, 'some men hold the opinion that...' and 'some women hold the opinion that...'.

I seem to recall 2 men who didn't agree, a couple more who kind of agreed with reservations and everybody else agreeing very strongly to the point of calling it a dealbreaker (including many regular posters and many names I'd never seen before nor since). There were plenty of responses. That was as close to consensus as exists on any messageboard.

[This message edited by Lazarus at 7:03 PM, March 27th (Tuesday)]

"See, this is the thing I find confusing (and I’m perfectly okay with just leaving it at that we are all wired differently, but anyhoo). I know you said multiple threesomes and you’d D right away. But say it was a particular act. Anal sex. And she did it with OM 3 times. Would you require to have anal sex with your WW 3 times too? Or just once? Or more? Is it it now an all the time thing because she opened the door? And let’s say you required it the exact number of times she did it and that’s what you did. "

It is not that a WW did anal three times with the

OM. I mean WW had PIV three times with the OM.

So does that mean that after the third time the BH

does the WW stop having sex because the BH got it

the same amount of times as the OM?

It is that the WW gave things to the OM that she

refused to give her BH.

If the WW finally gives up anal to the BH, she can

tell her BH: you got to experience anal. I did

this so you can feel that the OM did not get

treated better than you. This is me trying to help

you heal.

However the affair and everything that I did

during the affair was the opposite of what the

real me would never do.

Thus part of my healing is for me to go back to

my true self and I for the reasons that I would

never do anal, I can no longer ignore.

oldtruck, It might be the ONLY way we have sex for awhile. BUT it will ALWAYS be on the menu! If per say she ONLY did it once hated it broke up with him because of it I WILL still get it but maybe not near as often. If she gave it freely to him often then it will never be off the menu.

When we started I let her desires rule in the relationship, I love women and never have "forced" anything. However once, as was said earlier, she opened pandora's box there is NO closing it.

That is my attitude now the betrayal was MANY years ago and I lost miserably. The greatest likelihood would be I would just walk away.

The main problem I have is that even those who should be our allies and help us hold our mates responsable totally desert us (not all but in the last several threads I've read, most). In ALL other aspects we are treated more or less equal but when it comes to sex it's "no you can't expect her to do what you ask because it would upset her". With little or no consideration for the BH's feelings or desires. After all women must NEVER let a mere man be in a position to "demand" anything in regards to sex.

JMO

No one (male or female) needs to be demanding anything sexually from anyone. If one needs something the other spouse isn't willing to give, no matter the reasons, than one needs to decide if it is a dealbreaker. Sex needs to be given freely, it is a gift, it is not some kind of feudal payment.

^ ^ ^ ^

I totally agree with Sister.

Every conversation on this is the same. The WW is free to leave if she doesn't like it. Just as she is free to leave if she doesn't like have her phone/internet monitored or accounting for her whereabouts... or finding a new job.

You're choosing to make it about something it isn't. Most of us are saying it IS a dealbreaker. There is nothing immoral about that. What you are arguing is extremely unfair and callous towards BHs.

R is a gift. If it’s not working for you take it away.

I do find it odd in an affair the AP gets anything, never turned down but the marriage has a different set of rules?

It seems to be a form of entitlement.

Why stay? Weakness, codependentcy, fear of losing something you don’t really have?

Mind boggling

SisterMilkshake,MadOldBat; Then in that case divorce is the only answer no matter how much she wants to reconcile. I will simply never again the guy whos wife says "Oh yeah I'll do that but not with you.

Why is it that so many threads lately seem to devolve into acrimonious discussions about butt sex and blow jobs? Seriously. It's become a pretty disturbing experience to read in this forum.

It sounds like candyman is willing to accept the premise that sistermilkshake has offered. It should not be forced. However, if the A has made not getting these things a deal-breaker for the BS, then the WS has to decide if giving what the BS needs has become a deal breaker for them.

The WS is always in control of staying or leaving. A BS can't force anal on their WS. It's not my cup of tea, but I get the principle that candyman has expressed and the free will choices exists for both parties. If she (WS) refuses can the BS spouse accept that, if he can't accept that, can the WS accept that D is the outcome.

Even just to write these things out makes clear how far and deep the terrible impact of infidelity is. I'm sure when the WS is getting their ego kibbles while screwing their AP, they never imagined the insanity that would ensue over anal sex once their super secret love connection is outed.

Infidelity is a shitstorm. A terrible, horrible, cruel, sad thing.

[This message edited by DIFM at 5:44 AM, March 28th (Wednesday)]

Why is it that so many threads lately seem to devolve into acrimonious discussions about butt sex and blow jobs? Seriously. It's become a pretty disturbing experience to read in this forum.

Well, I'm a major contributor to the problem, for which, I'd like to say, I'm sorry.

However, at least for me, butt sex and blow jobs are a big part of the A. Just like conversations often turn to other things stolen during the A; time, attention, etc; my W's A and our relationship stole those things from me. And that's a pretty common experience, as evidenced by these threads, those are common things that are stolen by the WS from the BS. It's also a major sticking point for R; so, sad as it is, I think the conversation is here to stay; those are things that a lot of BS's want from their WS and are often given to the AP (IMHO, it's a big reason for many to pursue an A at all, because they know that those things will be on offer and they desire them).

Just like TT and many of the other "cheater truisms" that we all talk about, so go butt sex and blowjobs. It's universal enough an experience that it has to be part of many discussions about an A.

"No one (male or female) needs to be demanding anything sexually from anyone. If one needs something the other spouse isn't willing to give, no matter the reasons, than one needs to decide if it is a dealbreaker. Sex needs to be given freely, it is a gift, it is not some kind of feudal payment. "

So is it wrong for the BW, BH, to demand NC,

a detailed timeline, no trickle truth, answer all

the questions, change their job, NC letter?

For the WW to deny the BH what the OM got is wrong.

I think if these were things that the WW never did

before and does not to do now because she wants to

return to her old self. I think both meeting half

way is the answer.

WW had an affair for 1 year then she can offer

the extended sex menu to her BH for 1 year.

BH gets to even the score and the WW eventually

gets to return to who she was before the affair.

I know that women oppose the sexual evening of the

score. Though when they do so they forget, or

chose to ignore that men and women view affairs

different.

A BW loses it if her WH said to the OW - I love

you, then that he had sex with the OW.

A BH wishes all his WW did was to tell the OM -

I love you. For that meant there was no sex.

It is that his WW gave up her body to the OM.

And on top of that she gave her body in ways to

the OM that she never would give to her BH. Then

she refuses to do it after D day.

WW: yes I'll recover the marriage with you, but

no way are you going to get what I gave the OM.

Biological and society evolutionary needs has

had men seeking a woman that will be faithful.

No man would knowingly risk leaving the cave

to bring home food for children that are not his.

Mans need to procreate is what drives him through

life. Women as well.

The women will never, damn they can never doubt

who the mother of her children is.

A man can never know who the dad is. He can only

hope and believe they are his.

I guess it is easy to forget that who carries the

eggs and all the implications.

oldtruck, Well said! Thank you.

we don't live in caves anymore. we're not cro-magnon

"BH gets to even the score"

talk to any MC and they'll advise against score keeping in a marriage. and truly, does a BH evening the score take away their pain?

Once again a BW defending WW's right to deny. Nuff said.