SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

"that a BS must accept being a cuckold regardless."

First of all I would like to say, your wife's affair does not define you when you had no knowledge of it occurring. The question becomes, what are you going to do about it after you know? Your response defines you, not her affair. Once you know about it, I suggest you become a cuckhold no more. You need to figure this out, and this includes believing in your own actions, not taking an action because someone is telling you or that it appears to be more normal. Take a wrong step, you will learn or pay.

Regarding wanting a threesome: The weird thing that happened to me during my reconciliation process: a GGB threesome was one of my fantasies never played out. It existed in me all along, and upon DD I also began seriously considering having a revenge affair. What the hell, beating my chest, was in line with my existing belief system. However, as I learned through the reconciliation process, my world view changed. I became a person that could no longer "use" a second G. No matter how much this 2nd G might want it, I believe I would be using her. I so strongly believe this such that I can no longer fantasize about having a 2nd G, it let alone bring myself to do it. Things have changed for me, but at the same time, I do not expect anyone else to be where I am. Make you choices. If they are wrong you learn and pay.

Maybe take your time before making such a drastic decision or stance to see how your new belief system is developing. After 3 to 5 years, if you still desire a threesome, then it is still an option.

She isn't special to me so now I can do those same things.

Since she's your slut now, why the fuck are you still married?

Smoken-

I think at this point it’s because oven the heinous degree of loss and disrespect and humiliation he has edited, he feels he really has nothing to lose. I doubt people on the internet telling him he will be just as bad, or a cheater like his wife, really matter to him at this point. I’d bet he just wants this for him, unhealthy as many may see it, without really caring about how his WW feels about it. I won’t tell him to go for it, that’s advice I’ve learned not to give so freely, but I also certainly won’t blame him for feeling the way he does. I think he is just trying to make the best of the shitpile he is left with in the wake of this all, and if he can do something for himself, he feels ok doing it.

I can speak to threesomes. Having one. With ex ww and the wife of the ap that she left me for. Evidently by then my ex ww was a staple at their house for threesomes almost daily. And I got one in return. No cheating involved as he knew about it and blessed it evidently. Trust me it was a messed up situation. There were so many things going on that I had no clue about it’s really laughable.

Anyway, I digress. From a purely sexual standpoint it was interesting and relatively satisfying. The experience was fine. The context was horrible. And for the record I think you need to have a very strong and unique relationship to be able to survive things like that for long.

Yep, that's a fucked up situation.

Did you see yourself as a swinger, or in a threesome for revenge sake?

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 4:10 AM, February 15th (Thursday)]

Lol. Well....,I will try to lay out a bit of background without this becoming a novel

My ex ww went from basically showing no interest in sex through the majority of our marriage to becoming highly sexual. I believe there were multiple factors. Unhappy with our move to a new city. Her father passed away. She went off birth control for first time in forever. And probably other internal factors

Our sex life became amazing. She was hyper horny all the time basically. She started talking about different experiences she wanted to try. Which included almost anything you could think of. The first sign I should have acknowledged was her wanting me to be super rough, tie her up, degrade her etc. not something I was very good at doing and something she seemed to know a fair amount about. I chalked it up to fifty shades syndrome. The reality was one of the guys she was banging this is what he did with her(soo degrading and horrible). By this point although I didn’t know it she was seeing multiple men

Eventually she started talking about wanting to try swinging. Wanting to see what she had missed out on in her youth with other men but wanted us to experience it as a couple. Personally I think this was either a way in her mind to try to get other guys while keeping me happy also, or some guilt starting to come into play. Probably both in a way

Honestly I kinda freaked. Although in the abstract I of course wondered about sleeping with other women. I had no interest in my wife sleeping with other men. Soo I was not to hot on the idea. She eventually convinced me( or coerced me). Or I decided that I would try for you to keep her happy. I was doing the pick me dance basically without even realizing it. Keep in mind that she is already sleeping with multiple married men through all of this. Probably women too

She messaged people on Craigslist, joined a swinger website etc. we went on a couple of lunch dates with couples. Nothing happened. At least on my end. I have no idea what she did or did not do behind my back with these particular people.

Then she came across them. Man and wife with 4 kids who dabbled in swinging. We met them for lunch twice. Then dinner and a hotel room afterwords. And with the help of alcohol same room swinging happened. After it was all over I was mortified at myself. And honestly. I believe that inside myself somewhere I knew that that moment was when my marriage died. At least to me.

I was in full panic mode, told her never again. She was pissed. Wanted to do things with them. Wanted to be friends. Pick me dance prevailed and I agreed to friends but no sexual stuff. Of course that didn’t happen lol. I just didn’t know it. Or couldn’t admit it to myself

Eventually the wife showed up at our house. For a threesome. I think again some guilt from my wife drove it. As she was routinely doing it at their house. And I think the other wife was trying to make her husband jealous as she probably by then knew that her marriage was slipping away also. It happened

Within a week I got a call from other wife saying that our spouses were sleeping with each other behind her back. Of course she knew most of it. But didn’t tell me. My marriage was non of her business she said. I assume she told me because her husband was disconnecting from her for my wife

I confronted my wife that night. Found out the whole truth. Or at least most of it. Many men, all married, but he was special he was hot and she wasn’t going to stop. I told her we were done. She said that was for the best because he and her were planning on leaving for California next. Two states away. Him leaving wife and 4 kids. And they did.

I wouldn't pressure her into, but it wouldn't be a bad gesture on her part.

Mizunomead,

Your post and ones like it I have read in my life convince me that the majority of swingers and "open marriage" people are the most corrupt liars of all, doing it with all kinds of married people whose spouse does not know, and who knows what else. Oh, lets not forget that they "promise" not to get emotionally involved, an impossible promise to keep.

Yet they seem go around talking about superior honesty, like they are more honest and open than the general public so this type of thing "works" for them.

[This message edited by Bobbi_sue at 1:02 PM, February 15th (Thursday)]

While I’ve read Walloped first 2 threads, and one or two of his more recent ones, one thought has repeatedly entered my mind, “this is a much bigger and better man than me.”

Walloped, I know some of the hell you have been going through, I think the best compliments I can give you is this;

You are freaking impressive!!!!

I wish you and Mrs W nothing but the best of luck and hope you reach your ultimate destination as quickly as possible.

And Thank you for posting. They are helpful and does provide strength

I saw this thread came up again. I went back to read from where I last left off way back in February. This is a t/j to the topic first posted by Walloped.

The t/j is with regards to the post by Unhinged back a page. My WW is the only woman I've been truly intimate with. I had girlfriends and dates with the normal necking, etc. No groping, petting, whatever. I may have been dropped because I wasn't aggressive enough.

The first sex with the young lady who became my WW was a disaster because of my inexperience. Fortunately, we were together for a whole long weekend. Fortunate because if I hadn't the opportunity to "prove" myself to her and myself I may have suffered lifelong problems. She came to the farm I managed. The rest of the sex (and intimacy) that weekend was way, way, way, way better than I ever imagined or dreamed it would be.

It wasn't that way for her. She enjoyed it and the time together but, as I found out more than 36 years later, I was probably just another guy to her. I was maybe number 25 before she was 20 years old. She was surprised I asked her if she would come back again (she lived over 4 hours away). Of course, when she was back home she was free to do whatever she liked even up to 7 weeks before our wedding.

I had conditions about what I wanted from her to consider R. Some were sexual, some were not. There wasn't many. She was free to do them or not. She fulfilled 2 - STD testing and poly. When the rest were just set aside I asked her what she was willing to do to attempt R. I got nothing back.

She wasn't held at gun point. She wasn't handcuffed to a support pole in the basement (I don't have a basement). She could meet my conditions or not. She chose not. She finally moved out but I had to make it very unpleasant and be deliberately cruel and offensive before she would. We're separated. I've filed for D.

End t/j.

[This message edited by steadychevy at 9:48 AM, March 25th (Sunday)]

I'm trying to digest this thread as best as I can from my perspective.

First I would like to say that it hurts me to see people smacking each other back and forth. I hate to see us take out our frustration/anger/etc. on each other here.

I noticed that, to me, it seemed that many references to "what my WW did with AP" were deemed to be disgusting. If that perception is true, why in God's name would a person want the W to do the same with them? Disgusting and demeaning is such - whether done during infidelity or within a marriage. In fact, it is worse when expected within a marriage.

My H was with a prostitute. He is horrified with what he did. So am I, believe me. But how would my doing the same do anything but disgust me, disgust him, and further

damage our marriage?

Also, don't we need to keep in mind here that in many cases it seems the WW was considered to be performing sex acts that were out of character for her...to get what she needed out of the AP? So she performed what she had to in order to get the attention, etc. that many of you believe she was searching for? So you want to put her in the position of performing for you in order to save the marriage? It's the same thing to me. Doing something you don't want to do in order to get something in return. The very definition of prostitution. There's trading sex for money, trading sex for attention, and trading sex for a chance at R.

See, it feels to me through many of these posts that the emphasis is not on getting the particular kind of sex itself. It seems to be more of an attitude of, "If she was willing to do x,y, and z to get something from him...then she had better damned sure be willing to do it for me."

Seems like sex as a weapon. JMHO. And that is never healthy in any situation. And isn't it worse that a loved one would treat their spouse in this way? So much talk about how the men who are having sex with married women are just out for the sex and don't care what they have to do to get it. Who wants to be this kind of H?

A H should want to take better care of, and be more respectful of their wives. And if her infidelity makes you think that she should put up with anything to get a chance with you...is this the quality of relationship you want?

And, if you don't necessarily think the sex acts in your spouse's infidelity were disgusting, but just because she did it with him and not you...shouldn't you consider the reasons why?

She likes him better. ?

She is withholding it from you as a weapon. ?

Or maybe, she is so in need of what he offers her in other areas (compliments, attention) that she is willing to do things she dislikes to fulfill her needs. ?

Do you want her to do those things with you just to R? It might get the job done initially, but what about the remainder of the marriage? Either she stops doing it for you and you have to do without something that is important to you. Or she keeps up doing certain things sexually for you that are unpleasant to her.

Neither is healthy. IMHO.

I understand that we all have our needs. If there are certain sexual things that are very pleasurable and important to you, you should either choose a woman who also finds pleasure in them, or be willing to do without.

There are certain things that I simply would not do sexually. Just saying. Understanding that people have different preferences, shouldn't my perspective H and I hash that those issues prior to making a commitment to each other?

If happiness in a marriage depends on anal sex, for example...I am not going to enter into that marriage. That's me. I simply wouldn't take part in that. And if he loves me, he wouldn't want me to do something I was adverse to.

But I also wouldn't want or expect someone I love to do without something that is very important to him. Thus, we figure out this incompatibility PRIOR to commitment. Deal breakers.

Shouldn't HEALING a marriage be about real, positive and sustainable work to become closer? And if infidelity, or resistance to certain sex acts is a deal breaker, so be it.

I think I'm rambling.

What'sRight, (eta:and the rest of the world, to whom it may concern...I only named WRight here because the concepts and content of her post were the catalyst/" inspiration" for my rant and processing this and the following post of mine out loud " this thread)

(Eta:Here's my qualifying remark to clarify that it's not the kink but the feeling of freedom & entitlement & empowerment & fog-envy-fantasy " love" from multiple lovers and experiences that I'm more jealous of her getting away with having in spite of all assurances that she'd never leave me, much less leave me behind while she binge-loved other men and herself above all other sensibilities and promises)

I am NOT in the "please take me down to the lowest possible gutter like you yourself did and personally were in with your AP's years ago, whether you or I like it or not" category here, for the record.

There are many, many things that I am most definitely NOT into and my wife isn't (and wasn't with her AP's either)into either. There are some things that I would like to do that she really isn't into or physically able to comfortably enjoy, and I'm not really losing any sleep about missing out on, primarily because sex is about LOVE and INTIMACY and SHARING together in THIS man's opinion at least.

That being said, I DO struggle mightily with a few jealousy/intimacy related things that I don't know how to best deal with.

They have NOTHING to do with 3-somes as such, but for one thing, she got to go gallavanting all over the State of Texas (larger than most European countries, incidentally) with whoever she wanted, whereever and whenever she wanted and just DO whatever the HELL she and they both desired to do together, whether it was this sexual position or in the back of this guy's pickup truck on the way home to ME, or at her mom's house while she was over there, or at his friend's place...

She got to go on dates and visit with and know and be "known" by and with other men. They got to SEE her naked and she got to see them and feel them and learn their "ways" and how it feels to be with someone new and different...

She kissed them and smiled at them and was light-hearted with them and had lots and lots of FUN!

Now that the nuclear fallout and aftermath have settled in...it's not the same for me or for US. I am jealous of the "fog" she (and her married/otherwise committed AP's) had in a way. The MINDLESS carefree ABANDON of morals and commitment and "strings" and hard, hard history, and baggage, and new-ness...

They got to have THAT.

She kissed THEM quite willingly, fully, and enthusiastically...anytime they wanted. But ME? Oh...well..."I just don't feel like it."

REALLY??? "Well I don't understand...why not?. You didn't have any reservations or compunctions about kissing THEM at ANY freaking point whatsoever, right? I mean you'd go up and kiss the daylights out of a total stranger that you'd never even MET! Am I not as decent a kisser as they were?? I thought you LIKED my kisses..."

"Oh I DO!" she says, "that's part of the problem!"

" ************************************** ", I'm thinking and saying with my actual face. "OOOOKaaaaayyy then....then why..." she politely interrupts to say, "with YOU it's truly intimate and meaningful and intense. With them it was just...a response or just what a girl is supposed to do. More of a natural reaction to a guy's initiating kiss or manuevering. No history of real love or depth to it really; just a lust response or a reimbursement for his attentions paid to me."

"Sooooooo, now that you know I'm the real thing and that they weren't and never were, why do you resist kissing me now?", I ask.

"Because the pain and the history is so real. When I connect with you like we do when we kiss...it's just really painful and hard because it's so intimate and personal," she replies.

"And SEX ISN'T 'personal'???" I respond in total SHOCK and disbelief.

"Not like kissing is", she maintains.

WTH??? WTF (literally) "where does this shit COME from, anyway??

[This message edited by Cephastion at 6:02 AM, March 27th (Tuesday)]

What’s right,

Your’re not rambling! You make perfect sense!

However, I recently had a thread where I learned a lot.

So, imagine if your husband won’t go down on you. He explains why he doesn’t like it, and you agree to go without. Then, you find out he went down on OW.

Or, a man wants anal sex, but wife says no. He agrees to forego anal sex. She cheats and he finds out she had anal sex with OM.

Either scenario is damaging. And, I can imagine sex acts wanted, but denied, then performed with another, can add an extra layer of mind fuck.

This has nothing to do with threesomes, which, in my opinion, is gross, and harmful, if considering reconciliation.

[This message edited by Greeneyesbluezy at 2:49 PM, March 25th (Sunday)]

I guess what I'm getting at there is that I'm jealous of not only of the fact that she got to experience the best of what other "lovers" could offer or do for her at their own collective discretion over the course of multiple adulteries and abandonments in about four months' time (gone for 3) the first time and 9 months' time for the second round of binges a year later.

I've only EVER been with HER. PERIOD. And she knows it.

I don't have that. I NEVER felt entitled to just go on a sexually polygamous fornication or adultery spree with total strangers in an NSA and/or ONS kind of way.

And the crazy thing about it is that I have a very strong sex drive, too. Or at least the two of US think I do, anyhow. That's maybe a lot more TMI than I typically volunteer on here, but it really plays into the frustration issue of my sacrifice by staying chaste and faithfulness being completely trivialized and totally taken for granted and regarded as worthless to her, while she got to have whatever and whoever she wanted and toss out whatever she didn't like or want--including ME, along with other AP's she only took out for a ONS "test drive".

Additionally, her dating other men and being doted on by them...she's as jealous as can BE when any woman acts nice to me or compliments me for much of any reason. But she got to basically baptize/immerse herself in other men and let them FILL her body (MY "body" according to our view of marriage, actually) with their personal splooge as a reward for such.

I feel very angry that THEY got the wings while I got the stings...and the medical bills, virtual bankruptcy, and permanent "brain injury" from such as well.

I don't think a 3-some would do anybody any good at all, since it's a kind of 3-some of her choosing against MY will that got us into this SHIT in the first damn place. But I DO envy that they were kissed and screwed with no strings or baggage involved in the act at all, thanks to the mind-and-conscience numbing effects of the "fog" and other lies.

AND, they got her at her physical BEST, I might add, and with her emotionally feeling quite untethered and uninhibited by any real concerns or fears of any consequences or real fallout other than potentially losing someone and something that she was ALREADY throwing out to be burned anyway!

I wish there was a way for she and I to somehow repay, recover, or erase & undo those things and those choices...somehow...

In the meantime, I am jealous of HER virtual "Threesomes", even if I never wanted one before. It does evoke a certain temptation within me to wonder what being SOOOOO freely polyamorous is LIKE, since so many people including my own wife have engaged in such so repeatedly and so typically and habitually the world over.

I was VERY content and not even CURIOUS before SHE ate that forbidden fruit again and again over and over and over. I must admit that the temptation and repeat offending that seems to be so characteristic of this business DOES evoke some envy-ings and jealousies on my part, even if I HATE myself for feeling this way at ALL!

It's SO DAMNED EVIL to do this to otherwise happy people. To go eating the damn vomitous turds of strange flesh and act like it's the better than the "homemade meals" at home and keep just going OUT to eat instead! She hasn't done that for 22 years now, but when she DID...it was pretty much all "fast food" and NO homecooked fare. In one way, that's a real plus since there wasn't an awful lot of "double-dipping" (as she calls it). On the other hand, since she did actually leave me twice (3 really) and keep going back to that swill and slop community feeding trough soup kitchen swill line instead, it makes you kinda wonder what they "put in the stuff" that gets people to just keep-on-a-coming back for MORE every night or every weekend they can!

Cookie Monster Gets Seduced/Tempted Skit (very possible trigger warning here)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6WBHhmP_-A

If it's all that "finger-lickin'-good!" (and yet she says it really WASN'T) then what the HELL am I missing out on?? I really KNOW that I don't want that shit inside my mind, heart, or body myself...but damn my curiosity...I was EXTREMELY content BEFORE she pulled this SHIT!

Thank you, lovely world I live in! I'd like to thank all the "lovely" people who brought me and my wife to where we are today! Down in this pit of horrors and "wonders" of the depths of sin and shame! Thanks for "sharing"! You cannot know how deeply this has "touched" me and mine!

Threesome, indeed...

The more, the merrier--when the goal's a burial.

[This message edited by Cephastion at 3:43 PM, March 25th (Sunday)]

So I find this completely WW thinking 🤔... really you F’d up so now you want to propose having a threesome to even the odds.. this is sooo disgusting..you have already destroyed your BS and now you want to make them feel even more insignificant by sleeping with someone else plus you get to throw it in your BS that they cheated too..

I just don’t know what I would do if my fWH proposed this??? He probably would be 6’ under. I do know that when I was extremely vulnerable and doing the pick me I would have probably agreed to anything. It’s so sad that we were so broken that we would agree to such a horrible thing.

And I’m not knocking those that have agreed to do that but not in this scenario.

Hurt,

I don’t think it was a wayward suggestion in the first. But, the wayward in the second position, meaning the one who cheated offering to the betrayed.

Either way, I find it against reconciliation.

And, just so damaging.

Cephastion...

I wasn't directing my comments to you, or really to anyone personally.

I was just thinking out loud about the comments made on this thread.

I meant no judgement towards you personally..

Greeneyesbluezy...

I understand what you are saying. And I agree with you...but...

...hypothetically, if my H would refuse not to do this thing or that thing for me sexually - then I found out he did this with the AP, it would definitely be hurtful / maddening / upsetting, etc.

But I guess what I was attempting to say above is that to me it would depend on the situation.

Does he enjoy that certain thing with her and not with me? Bummer! I would want to know why.

Did he not really like it all that much, but was willing to do it for her? And not me? Heartbreaking.

Was he disliking it with her, too, but so deep in the A that he did things he really didn't want to do?

If that was the case, I don't think I would want him to do it with me if he absolutely doesn't like it. I would want there to be more mutual respect within intimacy in our marriage.

JMHO

What’s right- you make some decent points... but rational and emotional don’t work hand in hand. sorry WS, if you want to save your marriages, you damn sure better make sure your BS feels by their definition, that they get the best out of you emotionally and sexually. We can argue infinitely, but for many BS, it just is what it is.

No I know this won't do dear Mrs W any good. And Mr. W won't enjoy seeing her suffer any more. I think what good does it do a faithful partner to experience something that's maybe more exciting and then return to the spouse thinking about it afterward. Even if it was great then after that how does it help going forward. Forcing the WS to watch or participate seems to be cruel to me.

Seems like it's already tough enough without adding more hurt feelings.

Someone who is pining away for the chance to frolic with another or others should move on and chase that. Don't humiliate the WS.

I think the best solution is to heal and have something better than before. Everybody wins.