SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

As much as I have learned not to make assumptions about genders here l, and rightly so because there is always an exception, I can’t helpnbut see that there Are obviously differences in the genders... that’s nature. So much so that often the two don’t understand each other, each other’s motivations, drives, reasoning and so forth.

Seward that’s the point here. You can’t paint all men with the same brush and you can’t do the same for women, but bioligically there is a quantity vs quality hypothesis for reproduction that indicates that men tend to favor trying to reproduce with as many females as possible (billions of Sperm) wher as women tend to want to mate with the highest quality mate (400 eggs). Rationally, when we enter into a monogamous relationship, both sexes make a compromise to ensure the best stability for the family unit and therefore the development of the offspring into maturity. It does not mean that men don’t desire sex with other women, that’s natural, it means we forego that desire out of love for our W, and the best stability for kids. It also doesn’t mean women don’t meet higher quality mates then their H. It means they forego the biological upgrade, for the same reasons: love and stability for the progeny.

One has to understand that marriage is a societal construct, more than a biological one. It’s a loving compromise. Some animals pair bond, others reproduce freely. I think this is the root of the issue that is mentioned here that neither side of the gender divide fully understand about the other.

It’s probably why on average men typically feel most territorial and wronged by sexual aspects of the WW affair. Seward what your essentially saying is that all partners need to accept that because their is no healthy way to be be compensated for infidelity, that a BS must accept being a cuckold regardless. Stare it in the face as you mentioned. As a man, I’d bet my bottom dollar there aren’t too many BH out there willing to accept that. It’s like saying there are winners and losers in this world, and because you were deemed a loser card, instead of trying to win, you must accept your role as a loser, and come to terms with it.

You said WW give sex for attention. Well if they were willing to do it for attention from an AP, if they’ve truly want to reconcile, they must be willing to want to do it with a BH, otherwise they are sending the message that AP deserved it, but BH didn’t. WW may not be like it, but it’s the reality of the male mind. Doesn’t mean all BH want sexual equality, and it doesn’t mean it makes it all okay, but it does go some distance in showing the BH that he is worth doing it for.

And if not, why even stay married for a BH? All men want sex that makes us feel empowered and desired. If the WW can’t open herself up to that level for us, but for an AP, why should we be stuck with tainted goods? Newness, is exciting for anyone. Going back to the point of getting married, it’s about loving compromise to raise children. But both genders contribute equally albeit differently, and have different values on marital expectations.

I’m not saying that a BH should force their WW to do anything, I’m saying that a WW should want to make it up to the BH, especially in the sexual inequality aspect, if they love them. Otherwise why the hell should a Bh stay? His biological drive that he compromised on really doesn’t need to Be compromised anymore. Why should an AP get what any man desires, but a BH doesn’t? These are the questions I feel a WW should ask themselves, and I’m sure WH have questions they need to ask themselves as well, and BW should voice them also. It’s not illegitimate for a a BS to have conditions for R that a WS must meet whether emotional or sexual. All I’m saying is the WS damn sure better find a Way to want to do em, or the BS hasn’t no reason to stay. And don’t go down the “vows” route. No BS should accept being treated like second class. A WS who wants to reconcile needs to understand that their A puts them in second class regardless, even if the BS didn’t want to.

[This message edited by nicenomore at 11:52 AM, February 13th (Tuesday)]

Well stated. I had divorce papers ready 2 weeks after DD. If my WW didn't try to do everything I asked to heal (especially sexually) then I would have been long gone by now. It's only because she is willingly doing these things that I have chosen to stay as long as I have in the first place.

My immediate reaction after anger and the devastation was OK, now I have a free get out of a shitty sexless marriage card and I am able to be with anyone I want. I won't die only having been with 2 women in my entire life.

My WW asked me before we got married if was OK with my limited sexual experiences (she had 13 prior sexual partners). I told her that I was because I was in love with her and wanted to spend the rest of my life with her. I totally sacrificed that part of my life for her.

I've told her now that she did this and had a ONS with a female that I'm going to sleep with someone else at some point regardless if we stay together or not. She offered the 3some idea and for me that's the best choice because she is involved and it sounds like fun. She also offered me a hall pass and the freedom to have some ONS. I just can't do that though. I've never done it before and without an intellectual or emotional connection I just can't be intimate with a woman.

Honestly the only way to balance this would for me to have a 4 year highly sexual affair with a smoking hot Italian woman while refusing my WW sex all the time. She refuses to let me date anyone so if I want that I'll have to leave.

so much I want to say here nice:

"all partners need to accept that because their is no healthy way to be be compensated for infidelity,"

exactly. there is no way to be compensated for an affair.

"that a BS must accept being a cuckold regardless."

not at all. if the BS understands that the affair didn't have anything to do with them, they are not anything. there are things I didn't get that she did. that doesn't make my personage less.

"Stare it in the face as you mentioned. As a man, I’d bet my bottom dollar there aren’t too many BH out there willing to accept that."

I agree. they try to do anything but accept it because it's unacceptable. they try to put sex in the mix but from what I hear, it doesnt' help. BS are still hurt. terribly hurt. never the same hurt.

"You said WW give sex for attention. Well if they were willing to do it for attention from an AP, if they’ve truly want to reconcile, they must be willing to want to do it with a BH,"

maybe. but then you're making someone do a sex act they might not want to do. i don't understand how that's pleasurable.

"otherwise they are sending the message that AP deserved it, but BH didn’t."

isn't that already the message when the WW has already been asked to do that in the marriage?

"And if not, why even stay married for a BH? All men want sex that makes us feel empowered and desired. If the WW can’t open herself up to that level for us, but for an AP, why should we be stuck with tainted goods?"

my point exactly. you shouldn't. but it's already been done. the AP got it first. are the BS ok being second?

[This message edited by sewardak at 12:03 PM, February 13th (Tuesday)]

And honestly skins, if you can’t ever forgive her, after what she did to you, then you don’t have to. I just don’t see why people would want to make ou feel guilty for gettin what you want now, especially since your wife wants to do right by you. At least she is trying. A few threesomes? I won’t tell you not to. I would say don’t dont anything purely to punish her though, you will regret that. She knows the consequences of your humiliation. If she can give you some semblance of the emasculation you felt back, then she understand why it’s important too. You don’t have to accept being a cuckold, and you don’t have to stay regardless. She made her bed, she understands why it’s cold now, that’s good on her for realizing this.

Seward-

This is how men often think. You may not like it, but it is what it is. I’m just putting it out there. And what you are essentially saying is you think no BH should stay... why even R then? I didn’t so I know. And I’m happy I didn’t. I wouldn’t want to torture myself staying with someone who did make me second.

But I’m this regard, I’m advocating giving the Bs what they need to heal, regardless of what happens to the M. A remorseful wayward gets this.

And to your question about why we would even want it, it’s a territorial ego thing. It’s pretty common thought process in guys, part of nature if you will. It’s not about being second place, it’s about taking back what was taken from us, before making any other decisions. We may divorce, but Ill make sure that decision is mine to make, and OM no longer has a say. It’s reclamation, HB, etc

"you think no BH should stay."

I don't think this. I think if they think they're a cuckhold or need something or are grasping for some sort of justice or de-emasculation then they shouldn't stay.

but those who understand it had nothing to do with them or they are offering grace or forgiveness or simply don't fall into the emasculation thing, then stay.

I would say don’t dont anything purely to punish her though, you will regret that.

This is really the line for me. If you want to have a threesome because you want to experience it with her; to see her with another woman and enjoying them together; that's VERY different than wanting to have a threesome so your wife can hurt watching you sleep with another woman. One of those goals is reasonable/healthy, the other is not, IMHO. Same thing with other "questionable" acts, do you want anal sex with your wife to hurt her, or do you want it because you want to do that with her and have that experience? And, frankly, as much as I'm skating on dangerous ground here, I feel the same way about RAs. Are you having a RA to destroy your wife/husband after what they did to you, or having one to feel "OK" about yourself again?

With all of these acts, INTENT is everything. Nobody wants to be with someone who's trying to hurt them, which you can do with threesomes, anal sex, or, most commonly, words and non-sexual actions. But if it's done to help the other person heal and bring the relationship back together? Then, IMHO, it's reasonable, but it's also reasonable (assuming the WS didn't do it with the AP, if they did, I think it's completely unreasonable to reject any "recreate" requests) for the spouse to say no. But it may help, it may be the piece that fixes it. It wasn't for some of the posters on here, and it was for others, so there's no way of telling ahead of time; not that I can see.

they think they're a cuckhold or need something or are grasping for some sort of justice or de-emasculation.

Thats really all of us though, at least initially.

think they're a cuckhold

There's no "thinking", any BH is, by definition, a cuckold.

Definition: "the husband of an adulteress, often regarded as an object of derision."

Now, you can think it was about you, when maybe it wasn't. You can think that your W would rather be with the OM and torpedo the relationship. But you are a cuckold, no arguing that one. Which is really hard for a lot of men to accept.

Sure, and my point is, if they do stay, should they accept not getting what they, (or any guy really)wanted all along, knowing now that someone else did for free? If they wanted it and previously accepted not getting it, believing it was universal only to find out ithe restriction was only applied to them, should they not voice their needs if they decide to stay? Seems like an awfully easy way to remain in pain and humiliation instead of healing to me. That, or just abandon ship and find a single woman who gladly wants to do the things they desire? Wouldn’t that then mean the WS sabotaged her efforts at R by not wanting to do those things even if her H was kind enough to offer R?

Just some thoughts

Edit to say- ride you’re right, by definition BH are cuckolds. The response is whether we want to stay in the position of weakness, or assume a role that despite our mistreatment, let’s is enjoy what we sacrificed by marriage. Why go back to the old way when it’s clear she wasn’t worth sacrificing for? Try new things, and if she is truly remorseful, she will want to make you happy. This isn’t even debatable if they are things given to the AP. And as mentioned before, this applies also to BW expectation of WH. If you cheated on your wife and expect to stay, you better figure out fast how to like icing her what she wants.

[This message edited by nicenomore at 12:39 PM, February 13th (Tuesday)]

Out of respect for Walloped and Mrs. Walloped why don’t y’all move this epic threadjack to a new thread?

Mr. Walloped, would you consider the ongoing discussion in this thread to be

1) threadjacked

and/ or

2) unwelcome/undesirable by you at this point?

Frankly I find it to be almost ironic how complex the thing becomes when enough cooks get in the kitchen, or flies get into the ointment...which is a big part& parcel of what I think would occur in a real life 3-Some.

But a one worded topic thrown out there like "Threesomes" ....what kind of critter and scrapping should one expect with a thread topic like that?

It's not like it was a thread response-request about sharing one's views about what kind of tea and biscuits to serve at a toddler's tea& doll party or what your favourite color is and why...

T/j (Peppermint tea, Milanos from Pepperidge Farm, and the " color" of lightning and/or fire).

Or

3) tolerable, but we need to get back to the pupsicles.

Pepperidge Farm Pupsicles all the way!

I realize I'm a little late to this thread, but I have a question for everyone who's posted on this thread or MrsW's in the W forum.

How many of you have actually had a threesome?

I don't know if I missed it, because I have to admit that I only skimmed a great deal of this thread, but not one member has ever pointed out the obvious. Things like threesomes and one-night-stands, a presumably affairs, are never really what they're all cracked up to be. I was in my early thirties when I met my wife-to-be. Before that, I think I'd slept with somewhere between 15 and 20 women. I've had a few threesomes, which included men (no, I'm not bi-sexual). I had a few ONS. I had a very cavalier attitude towards sex and intimacy.

It's never what you think it's going to be... and you never feel like you thought you would before... whatever it was that happened. Reality rarely lives up to the fantasy. That's not always the case, btw, but more often than not, the experiences weren't that great.

Walloped, like you, I was very surprised by comments/questions about a threesome's in your W's thread. Unlike everyone else, it would seem, I'm the only person who knows that having a threesome really wouldn't be the experience that either you of you might have expected, that the reality would be very, very, different, and in the end, it wouldn't do much to help you or your marriage.

Which brings me back to my original question. How many people here actually know what they're talking about when it comes to encounters like threesomes and ONS and whatever else y'all kinky freaks are into?

^ Good question.

I haven't posted as much as others, but did say something in the beginning about how neither threesomes nor opening the relationship would help. Haven't done those myself, but got a front-row view. My mother opened up her relationship with my stepmother at one point. They didn't communicate about it openly. Mom slept with someone who was off-limits, who wasn't a good idea to sleep with in the first place (my stepmom's best friend). The result: my family was destroyed (again, but the first time's a longer story). It's been years now, and Mom is in a stable poly relationship with another woman. But, they communicate about everything. Boundaries have to be made clear in advance. In other words, boundaries and communication have to be MORE solid between the couple rather than less solid. I can't think of a less solid time than right after infidelity. Bottom line: not a good idea. IMHO, FMLE (from my limited experience).

My choice is #3.

Honestly, I find the whole discussion interesting and somewhat amusing. I don’t really care that it’s gone off the rails at this point. But of course I haven’t chimed in much as a result.

But...getting back to the original topic, to me, in my way of thinking it’s not about what the BH should expect or what the WW should be willing to do. The answer for both is anything and everything that is healthy and productive that will help both partners heal, grow, get healthy and become safe for each other. A threesome would be the opposite of that ideal. It’s suggesting to someone who brought another person into the marriage, which is why they are a WS, to go ahead and bring another person into the marriage. A BH may want it, or feel they need it, or that it’s justified because of equity, or to balance the scales because otherwise they are saddled with a label they don’t like, but there’s absolutely no way it’s healthy and productive. To me the suggestion smacks of pain and anger toward the WS. It’s not a suggestion that stems from love. And if you don’t love your WS, then why stay?

Pepperidge Farm

Mmmmm...Pepperidge Farm...

I suddenly have a craving for some Mint Milano’s...

but got a front-row view. My mother opened up her relationship with my stepmother at one point.

silverhopes - I’m sorry, but did I read that right? You had a front row seat to a threesome involving your mom and step-mom?

Now THAT’S a thread jack.

We need a popcorn emoji...

NO!!! Mom might be kinky, but she'd never invite me to see that! And thank goodness, Mom's sex life is none of my business!

Geesh, I need to watch what I write!

...Though I did hear Mom and the OW going at it at one point.

NO!!!

Damn! I mean...ummm...I’m glad to hear that silverhopes. Very glad indeed.