Topic is Sleeping.
marji ( member #49356) posted at 9:03 PM on Friday, April 27th, 2018
Surprised I understand your not wanting to derail any progress; of course not; and it sounds like it's going very well.
But you asked about what you might expect and the only person who might give any reliable opinion on that is her therapist. It's much the same as if there were a physical problem and the doctor in charge would discuss what might be expected down the road.
This therapist would not be talking about what your wife discussed; it's not about getting private stuff but about getting a professional opinion about that type of diagnosis in general much the same way a physician would say "six months to heal" or "needs another procedure." But again, your wife would have to feel comfortable with your meeting or talking with her doctor and you would have to feel comfortable with hearing that there may be no way to know or predict.
Gunnut ( member #63221) posted at 9:17 PM on Sunday, April 29th, 2018
Because of my WW pathological lying, she took the MMPI and it shows anxiety, an alcohol problem, paranoid PD, and antisocial PD with naccisistic features. She hasn't gotten an official diagnosis yet, but she's clearly on the spectrum. She really lacks empathy and nothing is EVER her fault. We have 3 kids and I worry about D because then I couldn't protect the kids during her time with them. Is there a way to get along with someone who might be a sociopath? She has a diagnosis of ADHD and thearapy and Adderal has really helped with her volatile moods and rages, but not at all with empathy. I think her ADHD and FOO issues is what led to her PDs and affairs.
cancuncrushed ( member #28156) posted at 2:07 PM on Thursday, May 3rd, 2018
Its not been a good experience for me, choosing to stay with NPD...
we got along some, while he is medicated...he decides to stop meds, constantly....he lives in denial....It seems he cant face himself...
this creates problems constantly.....he has bad ideas...and is impulsive...with all these factors, and changing factors, it stays tense...its unpredictable...
He has zero empathy...no concern for others needs...and zero awareness of others....
, When making the decision, I thought if this is it, I could handle this....but nothing stays the same.
Gunnut ( member #63221) posted at 12:32 AM on Friday, May 4th, 2018
we got along some, while he is medicated...
What kind of meds ?
redfury ( member #58256) posted at 1:53 PM on Friday, May 4th, 2018
Well folks, I broke no contact. I came home to find a key in my mailbox and then got a text informing me that he was out of the house and there were some things left behind if I wanted them. He also told me that he was moving into a Buddhist monastery (guess he found someone to take care of him because he is NOT a Buddhist). I responded with "I hope you find peace". This was evidently an invitation to hear all about how stress has damaged his heart and he is doing all this work on himself and trying to treat his BPD. Told me that he is unable to date or have sex because he is so damaged by our breakup and asked for me to please let him be a part of my life.
I should have just let it go, but I felt compelled to check. Quick Google search revealed he spent the hours before sending me that on multiple dating and porn sites. Just like he always has every day. Seeing it made me start shaking, but only for a couple minutes. I'm winning my battle with PTSD. Anyway, lesson learned. I am reaching a place of forgiveness. He can not change who he is. But forgiveness does not mean he gets my time or my sympathy.
Co-d BW, 40
D-days: 4-20-2016 and so many more
Recovery is ongoing, I'm doing better every day
cancuncrushed ( member #28156) posted at 3:53 PM on Thursday, May 10th, 2018
THey initially started him on antidepressants...some bipolar meds...in the end I think he stopped at 16 ...they tried 16 meds....He was suicidal, and I took him too a facility....for treatment. He was groggy medicated..and slept sooo much. That's why we got along some... for 3 years.
It turns out, he was having seizures, all along...he has brain damage...and of course, he refused for 2 years to see a Neurologist... We don't believe brain damage had anything to do with all the drugs...afterall, we took him to dr. with the symtoms, he had, before any drug..
Finally, we got him on limotrigene....and it worked well...he still sees a neurologist, but has cancelled the last 3 appts...hes done..he thinks he is healed...we constantly stress, this is for life. He lives in denial..same conversations over and over.
in addition, his testosterone dips to 75 or below..they have treated with injections, and pituitary treatment...he was much better , but has stopped those meds, and now testosterone has him way too eager...he has ED ... ..he drs himself...he is looking for miracle cure, and thinks he finds it often...and you have to keep in mind ,his brain damage affects all his decisions...He hates drs...and will not return at times. Cancels appts...
He is very functional now. He continues to work at high level profession...but for how long?. They did lessen his load, and gave him smaller projects....he has improved...
The damage is in the frontal lobe, so it affects his personality, his choices, his ideas, impulsiveness, he is childish...this is fact.
I have recently realized, he was NPD...the two combined is horrendous. He punishes.. It has blown up his NPD..
He has punished me and my children this week, to the point of huge blow up...they are grown ups...he feels out of control, so he tries to control us..I witnessed him interacting with some women from a company, business...he had them screaming...and raging....
If he didn't have NPD tendacies already, he certainly does now...and he is alcoholic...sober 3 yrs...we have no diagnosis after 4 years...
[This message edited by cancuncrushed at 9:56 AM, May 10th (Thursday)]
believehalf ( member #49925) posted at 5:27 PM on Friday, May 11th, 2018
Thank you Lavender. And all for sharing. It is truly terrifying that he cannot always distinguish between what is real. He quit the meds after 3 days (3 years ago). Whatever I am going through or should I say he’s doing - he projects onto me. Truly maddening. Example: he and I had been putting in extra in our 401k 403b to use for the next house. (I know I will move once our daughter graduates as the taxes are unbearable here so with or without him I knew there would be a safety net with this savings). And then SURPRISE! He hadn’t paid the property taxes. The money saved would have to pay them. Upon learning this I exclaimed “this plan has been a farce “. He jumped up and demanded I get a separate bank account and moving forward pay my own bills. I looked at him and he replied “I knew you were stringing me along and now you reveal the truth, that it’s been a farce!!!!!”
I don’t really argue with him anymore, I just avoid him as much as I can. He has not benefited from therapy it would seem. Its exhausting how much digging I must do to make sure there are less surprises. Through digging last year I had learned that altho he told me he was canceling both our life insurance policies due to financial hardship, he only stopped paying his - there was still a policy on me.
Bulldawg2010 ( member #63520) posted at 6:12 PM on Thursday, May 17th, 2018
So after doing an extensive amount of research, I’ve come to my amateur conclusion that my ex wife has BPD.
The constant accusations of cheating.
Her irrational fear of me leaving her.
Her trust issues.
The fact that she’s cut me off like I never existed in her life.
The fact that she’s the one that cheated and left for that other man.
The absurd amount of hatred she has in her heart for me.
Leaving a 6 year relationship, and a 10 month marriage for someone she never really got to know.
Living with that said person before the divorce was finalized.
Like I said, I’ve done a lot of research over the past few weeks. I even read a story that is so similar to mine that it’s almost 100% convinced me she has something wrong with her.
Sorry if this sounds like I’m trying to justify her behavior, but damn it sucks knowing what I know now. And I can’t help her at all.
She cheated and left me for an older man.
Rebuilding and getting much better.
DogsnBooks ( member #62093) posted at 6:20 PM on Wednesday, May 23rd, 2018
How do you know if your spouse is a narcissist?
I’m not sure if my WH is or not, but have often thought that he has tendencies in that direction.
He does have those patterns of being selfish and self-centered … he can’t go longer than a few minutes of comforting me about something before it switches back around to him and what he’s feeling … his identity is wrapped up in his accomplishments/successes and how other people view him … he is always seeking those external validations and “ego kibbles” and now that I am no longer giving him that, he doesn’t know how to act. And he keeps repeating those same old patterns of deflecting and blame shifting and making excuses when confronted about anything. Every half assed apology is followed by “I’m sorry ... BUT xyz was happening... or BUT you need to understand from my perspective ... or BUT I was just really stressed ... “ etc etc
He doesn’t necessarily have the grandiose sense of self, at least not in the typical way of thinking he is better than anyone. But maybe that’s just because he also has depression/generalized anxiety. He has bad self esteem and self hatred - so where I see that self absorption coming in is that he acts like his problems or his feelings are worse/bigger than everyone else’s. See above about when he tries to comfort me but it always flips right back around to him.
Maybe he doesn’t fit the bill. Maybe he’s just a selfish prick, nothing more. Either way, I feel very defeated.
Me - BW, 24 | Him - WH, 25 | Separated
12/31/17 - DDay 1
Too many DDays & lies to follow.
[Porn addiction/SA/webcam sex with both men & women over a period of 2 years + many other betrayals and violations]
believehalf ( member #49925) posted at 7:32 PM on Thursday, May 24th, 2018
It is a defeated feeling. I’m past the point of even arguing anymore. I found something called gray rock method. It can get me back on productive tasks rather than spending the weekend being drawn into his imagination, accusations or drama. They don’t have to check every box to be on the scale.
confusedguy12 ( member #61928) posted at 3:27 PM on Saturday, June 2nd, 2018
I’ve read a lot about the difference between a narcissist and someone with NPD but still don’t really get it, other than the latter is a mental disorder. For those BSs with an NPD WS, how did you know it was NPD? Was it a formal diagnosis by doctor/therapist, or more of checking symptom/behavior boxes for WS from before, during and after the A?
Also, as it relates to R, does it matter much if WS is a narcissist vs being an NPD? Are they so closely aligned that you’ll have the same types of challenges with either or does one react noticeably different than the other?
"I'm sorry that I'm having a hard time believing you due to your long track record of being a lying liar who constantly lies out of her lying liar hole"
redfury ( member #58256) posted at 3:06 PM on Wednesday, June 6th, 2018
I’ve read a lot about the difference between a narcissist and someone with NPD but still don’t really get it, other than the latter is a mental disorder.
Narcissism exists on a spectrum. It ranges from health (good self confidence) to malignant (must harm others to bolster self, no sense of empathy) and many places in between. NPD is not a mental disorder in the same way you might think of other disorders. There are no medications, there are no known therapies to treat it. DBT has been used to achieve some level of behavior modification in some NPD patients, but it does not treat the underlying condition. They can learn to act like someone who feels empathy, but they never actually experience it. NPD is a personality disorder. Meaning that it is WHO this person is. You can not R with someone who has NPD. They will never see you as anything other than an extension of themselves. At best, you can learn to tolerate their behavior.
[This message edited by redfury at 9:19 AM, June 6th (Wednesday)]
Co-d BW, 40
D-days: 4-20-2016 and so many more
Recovery is ongoing, I'm doing better every day
cancuncrushed ( member #28156) posted at 5:26 PM on Saturday, June 9th, 2018
Just after I posted these two posts, I learned my H moved out of our home, and has been drinking again since October....he had already set up an apartment, and moved his things secretly...
This is what the plan was...the stopping meds, was so he could drink again...chasing women in bars as ususal…he is an alcoholic...and is instructed never to drink again, due to meds, seizures, and brain damage...
Its strange to go back and read my posts, and see how clueless I was...
One particular day, he asked me to show him my short cut to the park...I take it daily...it turns out his new apartment, sits on edge of the same park...He had been planning and carrying out for weeks...its just so sneaky and sick...and now I realize he was setting up fake fights, pushing me to the edge, wanting me to kick him out or file for D....it was all planned. it was all fake. It was so he could drink and cheat again...
It amazes me how far he will go, to get what he wants...with no regard to me, no regard to my feelings or emotions, or pain.. its what he wants..
I reminded him of what the drs instructions were...he denied it all...says its a lie. None of the instructions are correct..
[This message edited by cancuncrushed at 11:36 AM, June 9th (Saturday)]
redfury ( member #58256) posted at 1:12 AM on Friday, August 10th, 2018
I just need to vent this to the universe somewhere. I broke NC.
I left him 8 months ago. You'd think I'd be better by now. But just this morning I found myself starting (and then erasing) a post here about how to get over the trauma bond. I've been pining away for him lately. And, just like clockwork, when I got home from work today I had a letter from him. I don't know why I read it. I haven't read anything hes written to me in forever.
The letter started with how hes been working on himself and has uncovered hidden memories. He told me a horrific story about child abuse. Said he would never tell anyone about it because then they would view him as too damaged. However, he wanted to tell me. Then he told me about how his health has been failing since I've left him. Following that was his response to "labels" I put on him (such as BPD). Then it ended with how wonderful I am.
Such a classic way to manipulate someone. Start with the big sympathy grab, tell the other person their thinking is wrong, but tell them you love them anyway. And it was peppered throughout with extreme minimization and re writing of history.
BUT I ALMOST FELL FOR IT!!
I started typing a text. I think I was going to tell him that I would always love him. Thank God I decided to do a quick Google search before I sent it. Yup, hes still all over the internet being a disgusting pig. He hasn't changed. Of course he hasn't. There's no way I can ever know what percentage of what he said is based in reality.
I managed to survive a panic attack fairly well, but I'm still shaking. Hopefully this will kill my hopium addiction for good.
Co-d BW, 40
D-days: 4-20-2016 and so many more
Recovery is ongoing, I'm doing better every day
Lavender0916 ( member #59280) posted at 4:18 AM on Monday, August 13th, 2018
Way to go Red! Good CoDa recovery right there. 8 months is not a long time actually so you are doing great. It's been 2 years since the first DDAY and wasn't until last November I separated and then finally filed for D. I was smoking the Hopium pipe for a long time. I am still only trying to get all my paperwork ready post filing.
This stuff is super super hard. Please be easy on yourself. You nailed it in your description of what he was playing. I have changed my STBX's nickname to now "Man-Child" It is the most accurate to date. NC with the MC!
Big Hugs (((((((((RedFury)))))))
BW - 46; STBXSAWH - 58
D-Day 1st 6/30/16; 2nd 4/30/17
3rd 7/6/17, 4th! 11/17!! 1/6/18 Escorts, False Recoveries, now separated and filed for D- whew
megleigh ( new member #65780) posted at 5:42 PM on Monday, August 13th, 2018
How do you get a BPD diagnoses? I think my partner is BPD but I'd like confirmation and validation. If they lie, how could a Dr. diagnose it?
BW, mid 30s (we were never married)
half a dozen DDays over 2 years
Supposedly no physical contact but caught sexting, hitting on, asking out half a dozen women, ex gfs, prostitutes
SEPARATED for good
WornDown ( member #37977) posted at 6:38 PM on Monday, August 13th, 2018
It takes a while for a therapist to evaluate and diagnose someone with a PD. It's not a one visit thing.
The reason is that a lot of PDs look like other issues (particularly bipolar). BP can be treated with drugs, PDs can not.
Plus there are a variety of (consistent) behaviors that have to be identified and evaluated over time to get a diagnosis.
Me: BH (49)exW (49): Way too many guys to countThree kids (D22, D21, S18)Together 25 years, married 18Divorced (July 2015)
I divorced a narc. Separate everything. NC as much as humanly possible and absolutely no phone calls. - Ch
Yana ( new member #44975) posted at 12:24 AM on Friday, August 17th, 2018
My WH has Narcissistic defense responses....I haven't decided he is NPD however its on the border whether its just his response mechanisms that are narcissistic or he's an NPD. I found that in recover with him after DDay was horrible. He was remorseful and said he was sorry but there was a point after he convinced me 3 weeks after the fact we needed to put this behind us. I was so distraught and confused still that I complied and tried to go along. I was in shock still. I happen to think that the toxic dynamic of him being sort of NPD-ish and me being sort of codependent-ish....lead me to going along with his plan of our 'recovery'. And boy, was it ugly and so very hurtful. He was....hurtful. I believe because of the narcissism it was very very difficult for him to accept the fact he caused so much pain. Like he just needed to get on with life and wtf was wrong with me? Yep, fun stuff. Somehow I stayed and it was really complicated--looking back I should have left. I still kick myself that I didn't. But now so much time has passed and i've realized that it is a whole family dynamic on his side that is completely narcissistic that starts with his Mom (and Dad)....and this provided a nice mess of DNA to do the things he needed to do. The ego kibble of the equivalent of heroin is what he had to have...didn't matter how many times I got thrown under the bus. Believe he was in a fog and coming out of it--well just too much for him to realize how bad he was. The Narcissism prevents him from being empathetic....like he is not capable and its a hard pill to swallow. However, on the flip side, there is some good things about him...when his defenses are down he is able to be ok but once the defenses are up its a whole other horrible ballgame. I'm learning how to navigate around the defenses but damn its been hard. Not for the faint of heart and its made recovery pretty difficult....
2 kids 14 & 18 now
Still married, 20 years
Dilero ( new member #66171) posted at 7:20 PM on Thursday, October 4th, 2018
My first post: Having experienced much of what many of you have described, I am now cautiously optimistic that the WH and I are beginning the path to reconciliation (we shall see.). WH is diagnosed BPD and PTSD (military incident) and has had many manifestations of his disease. Although medicated for several years (mood stabilizer), symptoms were not lessening. After attending a DPSA (depression bipolar support alliance) support group, I learned the extreme importance of a good night's sleep. This resonated in that the WH had gone years without decent sleep. He talked with his psychiatrist and was prescribed seroquel, which has made a large and wonderful improvement, perhaps more than any other medication and counseling. Regardless of where you may be in your journey with your WS, I strongly encourage you to assess his/her sleep issues.
Emotionalhell ( member #39902) posted at 4:10 AM on Monday, October 15th, 2018
WH was supposedly diagnosed with BPD after 2 therapy sessions. Is it possible to diagnose after only 2 therapy sessions? I’m having a hard time believing he truly went to therapy. So many lies have been told to support his affairs.
I’m going to go back and read every post on this thread.
I’m beginning to wonder if it is hopeless to have any kind of a relationship with a BPD?
ETA: I have been researching BPD and I don’t believe he is BPD. I think he did a google search and diagnosed himself. just for something to say. Some excuse. He likes his solitude, has never been suicidal, he is predictable in his actions etc. is not moody.
I think he is just trying to make me believe he went to therapy, that he is lying and thinking I will let the therapy thing blow over.
I askef him to read a book related to infidelity related and he came back with , “ my therapist doesn’t want me reading anything on my own.” Have you ever heard of such?
[This message edited by Emotionalhell at 6:56 PM, October 16th (Tuesday)]
Me BS x2. 50Divorced WH #1Currently in limbo (with wayward #2)Dday #1 Oct. 2014Dday # 2 August 2018
Topic is Sleeping.