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I wouldn't stay for your daughter -- even if that means 50-50 split on time.

I would only stick this out if your wife is working to become a much safer partner.

I think the vast majority of WS are broken in some form or fashion when they make these kinds of horrible, selfish choices. Some are pathological or worse -- your wife has to show you - if you give her a chance, that she can be a far better version of herself.

@Numb, MC went ok. I think I was hoping MC would say "WOW that is f-ed up!" and take her to task... but that never really happens. That's not the point anyway, is it? We talked about how incredibly hurtful it is and how I feel like the vids ruined my past as well as present. But really MC just kind of focused on what we could do to help me process things and take care of myself... getting more alone time, having WW take the baby more often so I could get some exercise or see friends, etc. It all feels a little empty and too little too late.

Edit: Oh yeah. Both her IC and our MC have said that shame will only make her feel worse and more likely to act out... and I get that shaming/beating her down will not do any good. At the same time, it seems like the alternative is them saying "suck it up, it happened."

@OldWounds, you're exactly right... she IS doing everything she can to be a better partner. Going to SLAA, talking to her sponsor regularly, going to IC. Going through a full 12 step SA program so she can figure out exactly where she goes wrong and prevent it from happening again.

Only time will tell, I suppose. In the meantime I need to decide what to do... eventually.

[This message edited by TwiceWounded at 7:06 PM, August 8th (Tuesday)]

I wish there was something I could say to make you feel better or take the pain away. I am glad she's working on herself and you are attempting to do the same. I am not sure what I would do because I always said I would never stay with someone that cheated on me and never have in the past. I am here now with a cheater.

My first instict when I read this though was to tell you to D. Pregnant? Videos? Showing your videos? That's a lot to deal with and I am just not sure I could do it. The invasion alone of being betrayed is horrible enough but to find this out as well. I really think I would D over this one.

I wish I had something better to offer. If you think she's worth it and a safe partner for you, and you can handle staying with her, that is obviously your choice but I am not sure I could this. Hell, I am not sure I can stay right now with my own WS. I am trying.

Maybe you should consider a new or no MC, doesn't sound like they are doing anything but pushing rugsweeping. Remember they are just paid listeners, once you walk out they're listening to someone else and giving their OPINION (and that's all it is) to them. Not exactly who I'd bank my sanity on, but that's just me.

Yeah. Maybe. The thing is, I really liked this MC, aside from a few times she went easy on her.

The thread I'm hearing, from MC and WW's IC, and others, is that "shame feeds addiction, shame does not prevent behavior from happening again." I get that. It DOES make sense. All 12 step programs point out that shame and self-hatred will lead to relapse.

On the other hand, it seems like NOT feeling shame is just...sweeping it under the rug? It's a conundrum. "If you want a happy marriage," I am hearing, "you need to encourage your WW to be happy and not shame her."

Don't get me wrong, I'm not sitting around calling her names or even hammering home what she's done to me. But by not "focusing on my own recovery" I am increasing her shame..? That's probably why this is hard.

Well, it's also why addicts are hard to deal with.

You are either a complete idiot or an otherworldly pillar of strength.

Psychobabble aside, most men would have went into fire-and-brimstone mode once he discovered that his wife was giving head to OM while carrying his child.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 5:08 AM, August 10th (Thursday)]

@Midnight, probably some of both.

After WW had 3 miscarriages for a child we desperately wanted, seeing her 7 months pregnant in a sobbing heap on the floor made it impossible for me to go fire and brimstone. The last thing I wanted was for her to go into labor 10 weeks early or to cause damage to our daughter. I immediately imagined how DD was feeling all her rotten emotions from the womb. So I tried to temper my emotions.

IC says it was bad, that I've suppressed feelings that have turned into poison for my soul. I agree. Looking back I'm not sure how I could have handled it differently at the time, so maybe that means I still have some growing and learning to do. Put me in that same situation now and I don't think I could unleash hell and fury, knowing DD was still sucking her thumb innocently in her belly.

NOW it makes me want to unleash fire and brimstone, but it's a little late. Hence my dilemma. Stay or go. What to do.

Twice - MC and her IC "have," to go easy on her. They know she will run if things get too difficult too quickly. The Mc is likely to put more work on the spouse that seems stronger. Based on your postings you are by far the stronger one.

If MC took a tough love approach to conflict avoiders (almost all WS are to some degree) they would not have any clients to bill. KWIM ?

A 12 step program can be a really good thing, but it requires patience on your end. My W had/has mental health issues and early on in my R I had to be in the background because my W was in no shape to deal with me, make any amends or anywhere near worthy of my grace.

The amends portion where I needed to purge all my negative feelings, my anger, my resentment and disgust with her actions were put on hold until she was strong enough to take that without putting her life at risk.

At best the only really feedback I got from her for a long while "Please do not give up on me, I am trying."

At the start I had to use my kids as my reason or justification because my ego and pride were so wounded that I needed something to hold onto to. It kept me around. I also detached pretty significantly to the point that I really did not care what happened to my W. Some of that has never really come back so be mindful of that. It took a lot of effort on her part to earn her way back to me. The effort required strength that I don't think she would have had unless she fixed her big issues first. Also I had to receptive to it. She tried to love me again, but my anger had to burned out before I was willing to accept that again.

My point is set some boundaries and time specific timelines for yourself. Most common one is 6 month, provided that your WS to adheres to the boundaries you've set. The boundaries are to give you safety. In return you stay and agree not to pursue a D. What helps you to feel safe while she has time to work out her issues. Most MC push forgiveness way too son IMHO. They also use that time to try and convince the BS that they are partially "at fault," for their BS actions. It is important that the WS often and clearly states that it was their decision.

Important clarification. You are not saying you will R during this time. You are just not actively pursuing a D. Big difference. You watch, observe and determine if the changes your WW makes are enough to warrant more time.

Another key point to make is that MC is there to heal (read as save) even if they requires the BS to put forward more effort. Most BS will tell you that MC is hard and they feel like they are being blamed for their WS choices. It is important to not agree. It was her choice. Even with addiction, it is still a choice and the damaged she did does not get erased because of her "illness."

You need to be vocal about things if you feel MC is not working for you. Change MC if it is not working for you. If you feel MC is going easy on your W tell them that. Let it out.

If the MC starts offering any books from the marriage builders program. Run like your ass is on fire. That program is outdated and misandrist the way it is presented. It is a blueprint on how to be a doormat for guys while allowing female BS more leeway in "walking away." Biased in any of those self help books is misandrist. 80% of their market is female thus they cater to it.

Your W IC is there to help her. No you, not the M, nothing else but her. Your IC should do the same and be about helping you cope. Understanding what is best for you.

You've got time. No need to make a decision one way or another right now. You do need to prepare yourself that you walk away if she can't make changes to be the wife you deserve. If that part is removed you lose all control and leverage to negotiate a new M.

Dad's try to protect their daughters.

I have been blessed with 4 daughters.

You need to protect your daughter from your addict of a wife and the men she will bring around your daughter.

I am surprised that you have not consulted an attorney. The way to protect your innocent daughter is to file for D and get sole custody.

Sorry, but your wife is an addict. Addicts have relapses as you well know.

And the addict that sent your video will also have her "men" around her daughter.

She will not protect your daughter. You need to protect her.

I am sorry for your pain, but your pain will continue. Your wife is not safe.

Please go see some attorneys today and stop wasting your money on your MC.

You've got time. No need to make a decision one way or another right now. You do need to prepare yourself that you walk away if she can't make changes to be the wife you deserve.

I think numb hit the nail on this for where you are at now.

When I first got here, I recall a number of members suggesting it takes 6-12 months sometimes, just to get your feet back on the ground and figure out your best path forward.

Shaming a person never works well, though sometimes it's great for the shamer.

But a lot of things that would seem to be shaming are not. IMO, it's not shaming her to tell her you're furious about her hidden life or about any part of it.

And it's not shaming to ask her questions that lead her to acknowledge what she has done. In fact, acknowledging what she has done is an essential part of honesty, recovery, 12 step programs, and life.

It may be too traumatic for her to answer your questions and hear your feelings now, but if she wants to R, I think she'll have to do it. I do not see how you can R if she keeps lying, even by omission.

JMO, of course.

BTW, I think taking the time you need is the right choice for you. But you already know that.

The thread I'm hearing, from MC and WW's IC, and others, is that "shame feeds addiction, shame does not prevent behavior from happening again."

While I do agree with their approach for someone they believe may be borderline and/or an addict, do they hold her accountable? Do they try to excuse or minimize what she did?

TwiceWounded

You are not alone. I 100% relate. Not long before I found out about my WW's affair, she told me she wanted some video to watch of us when I was at work and asked me to record video of us having sex from my POV. I did so. I found out that she sent these videos to the OM that she was chatting with online so that he could see the POV of having sex with her. Not only did she send video of us, but tricked me into making the video knowing that is what she intended to do with it. I don't even have the words for that kind of act. I understand completely.

@neko our MC does *some* amount of holding her accountable. It's more that she prods ME to hold her accountable in our sessions. She has never once made it seem like I shoulder any of the responsibility for her As though, which is good, as I HAVE been in that situation before. I think I'm just hoping MC will berate her, which is not her job. She's actually pretty good. I think I'm the one getting fatigued of having to try endlessly to make her see how much she has hurt me, and she saying she gets it but me not FEELING like she does. The endless cycle. It's not healthy.

@Second isn't that just downright insane? I've been surprised, a few people at SI have indicated they had similar situations, so I guess I'm NOT the only one who has dealt with this. I guess it just shows how far down the rabbit hole of vile depravity WS can get. It feels more sinister than the other parts of the A(s).

It has been 1 week since I found out the last bit of TT, this stuff about her videos. Today I did a lot of research about D lawyers online. I hate doing that. But even though she is making a multitude of attempts to change, the fact remains that I'm just not sure I'll be able to forgive. Of course, every day, every hour I feel different than the last...

Twice man, you need realize cheaters do all kinds stupid and awful stuff, that's why cheating is so disgusting, they throw everything out the window for their selfish joy only. You are not alone by any means...i spent $30k of cosmetic surgeries on her and in a year she cheated, how u think that made me feel when she gave it away for free.??...

@Twice I agree. Lying and cheating on their own are horrible to do to someone. But when I think about her doing that I just think "who is his woman? The woman I fell in love with would never have considered doing that to someone else." It's beyond disgusting to do to someone. It's still hard to think about that but I'm beginning to accept that it happened and I can't change it or explain it. Wish I could give you advice on how to deal with it but it's still pretty fresh for me too.

Is her SLAA meeting/program gender specific? If it's mixed gender, meaning both male and female love and sex addicts talking about their addiction-behavior-ideation, any hope of recovering with this woman is totally and unequivocally doomed.

@kla8 I was firm that her SLAA group had to be women only. You're 100% that any hope of R would be doomed if she was sitting in a room with other male addicts. Throwing chum into a shark tank.

Needless to say, continue to make precious daughter your priority--and don't waiver in pursuit of divorce attorney and sole custody.

Your WW is a piece of work who ultimately will need to right her own ship. You can't afford to risk the well being of your daughter.

Twice, I'm so sorry. To be blunt, your WW is majorly f-ed up. Sorry if that sounds harsh.

I thought my story was bad. XWH and OW1 were really into sexting. WH told me they loved to compare stories about sex with their BS. So after WH and I would have sex, he would text OW1 and tell her every single detail. OW1 wanted to know everything I did, everything about my body, every position, and was I into it l, etc. It was extremely violating. She was a voyeur into our M.

Now this is important. XWH told me that knowing how cruel he was being to me, the taboo of such a monumental betrayal, only added to the turn on for them both. This is why I dont buy it when BS say "WS was in a fog. WS just wasn't thinking about me, WS didnt really want to hurt me." That's wishful thinking and a little bit of rug sweeping too.

It's bad enough to have a secret affair but to keep it separate from the WS, and to respect the BS privacy. But knowingly and deliberately humiliating your BS, and getting turned on my that? That's a special kind of

F-ed up cruelty.

(I'll add, my now X WH said all the right things, too. He was sorry, so glad it was over, never actually had intercourse with OW because just couldn't go through with it. He said he must be a sex addict (so not his fault, like someone w cancer, and would I leave him if he had cancer?) Ridiculous, I know. To me, all his apologies were too little too late.

What he did to me, and what your WW did to you, is a fundamental character flaw.

This is not something they did. This is who they are.

I chose to D. Best decision I've ever made.

Get a good lawyer, as someone said. And continue to be a good father to your DD.