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sassylee - He hasn't really said anything about it, except when I bring it up. He's been trying to get me to go home since DDay, so my gut says he'll be relieved to have me out of the house again. I'll ask him later today if he would like me to shorten the trip, though - I don't want to leave something like that up to an assumption.

TimelessLoss - Not arrangements, or perhaps very preliminary ones (depending on your definition). I had told AP when I was going to be in town, but no plans had been made. No flights booked on his end (that I know of), and no meetup spots or times discussed. Thank goodness.

You want to make an impression on your H? Don't go.

I know it's your sister's wedding. But what if this is your one chance to show your H that you totally 100% choose him over anything and everything else? Would it be worth it to you?

I'd trigger so hard if I was your H, that when you came home, I'd officially call it quits.

I agree with Golden, this is an opportunity to make a statement to him. Your family knows so they should be sympathetic. Buy a cake and fly only for 48 hours - the wedding itself.

I agree that shortening the trip is an interesting idea but you need to be at your dister's wedding. I'd feel bad if my cheating wife missed a sibling's wedding out of trying to protect my psyche. It could backfire and make him feel like he's being so oppressive that you'd miss her wedding. But yeah, by all means cut the duration if you think that'd be beneficial.

Is your BH invited to the wedding? I sort of assume he was, but that he is declining to go because of your situation.

This may be a completely outlandish idea, but what if you (a) shorten the trip as others have suggested, and (b) ask if he wants to come with you. He doesn't need to go to the actual wedding ceremony or the reception. Put him up in a nice room separate from you, but close. Book him a massage. Still stay in touch with him, FaceTime, etc, but maybe the physical proximity will make him feel like you are not "on the road" while he nervously waits and wonders at home (?). Maybe the offer itself, if sincerely made, and whether or not he accepts, will speak to him: "I want you to be as close as possible to this potentially 'risky' situation , so you feel safer". If he's staying in a room down the hall from you, it would be much harder for him to conjure up nightmare scenarios of what's going on (I'd think)

And if he does come, you can do your nightly check-ins in person.

I don't know if your financial situation or his job would afford you two this option, or if he'll reject the idea. And it's possible it could backfire and/or trigger him, but it's an idea to consider. Financially, the cost of you reducing your stay may offset the cost of his flight and room (if that matters)

Even if he declines, I think the offer will demonstrate that you are putting thought into how to make it easier for him, and that you care about how how the things you're doing may make him feel. Also, you're not off "taking a break / having fun" while he is all alone with his thoughts...he can have a bit of a getaway too.

Just an idea.

[This message edited by mcw922 at 9:23 AM, August 28th (Monday)]

Long update - it's largely about BH, because we had a very long conversation where a lot of interesting items surfaced. I realize I devote more space to him than on myself, in this. I've been given a lot to think about in IC, so I promise I have not forsaken working on myself. I know that's where I need to keep my focus, but it's often harder to talk about, especially while I'm still mulling it over. In the meantime, I'm trying to understand where he is and what he's going through.

Ok, disclaimers aside:

Thank you to everyone for your suggestions about my sister's wedding. I'm still going to go. I talked to BH about it, and he seemed confused by the question. I asked him how he felt about me being gone so long, and if he'd like me to shorten the trip. He said something to the effect of "you already have your tickets, so I'll deal with it". I offered to go for less time, but he brushed it off and told me to just keep my calendar up-to-date so he knows where he should expect me to be. We already agreed that I would always let him know where I was going and provide proof of who I was with, as well.

(In answer to mcw922's question - yes, BH was invited and had even booked a flight, but cancelled it. I'm staying with my parents, so a hotel won't factor into the trip, though that might contribute to BH being unwilling to come along. I'll suggest it, though - no harm in asking.)

I think he would feel guilty if he felt like he made me miss out on it, especially since he's almost certain we're going to end in D anyway. (Similar to what SilverLinings55 had mentioned.) And honestly, he would probably interpret me changing the trip as desperate and an attempt to influence him. He's very sensitive to that.

He said something last night that seems worth noting - he said he was trying to figure out why he still wants me to send pictures of where I go, and why he still checks the GPS on my phone to see where I am, considering that he's so certain we're "dead" and the end is inevitable. He said he realized he isn't trying to confirm I'm "safe", but instead is trying to catch me in something. Like, if he can do that, then he can say definitively "we're done" and I'll have to agree. I find it interesting that he's almost hoping I'll do it again, because that would give him an "out". Any BS's relate to that feeling? I told him he might want to discuss that in IC - it feels like there is something important hiding in that sentiment that he should dig into.

BH is really internalizing the idea that our relationship wasn't what I wanted. It seems like a way of protecting himself, to me. Like, by convincing himself that I wasn't happy, and that I should be with someone else, he doesn't have to make the decision all about him. I think it's easier on him, that way.

He is still struggling with the meaning of the AP, too - he doesn't let it show very often, but I can tell he's having a hard time with the insecurity he's feeling. Last night, he said he thought AP was more of what I wanted, and that he (BH) wasn't a good fit for me. That I had to change to be with him, and that I wasn't satisfied in our relationship. I think BH was an excellent fit for me in some ways. Not all ways, but I don't believe any person will be an excellent fit in all ways. I tried to explain how relationships are about compromise (not to mention that AP was nothing I want in a partner, for reasons I can go into if anyone is interested).

I believe a relationship is made of two people negotiating their mutual imperfections and deciding to deal with them together, anyway. A search for the person who is utterly your match in every way is either going to come up empty, or is going to result in you finding someone who conforms to who you want them to be (to the detriment of themselves). Our relationship might have been lopsided and leaning toward the second - with me doing more of the conforming - but in the areas where we openly negotiated things, it worked. Where we got into trouble were the things we didn't discuss, largely because I denied they were there at all.

The more I think about it, the more I think for him it comes down to consequences. He said if he takes me back that means he's allowing himself to be treated the way I treated him. Like it's tacit approval of my cruelty. He said being around me will always remind him of how little he meant to me - how little I threw him away for. It breaks my heart that I've given him cause to feel that way. If I'm being candid, I wish, instead of reminding him only of what I did, he had room for how, as a result of what I did, I am investing time and effort into addressing these pieces of myself that are very uncomfortable to acknowledge, let alone overcome. But those strong unwavering values and convictions are a large part of what I love about him, and as much as I'd love for him to be able to consider a future with me, in some ways he wouldn't be the person I love, if he did.

That's really hard to admit.

I had a really productive session of IC this morning. Eye-opening, in many ways. It's been interesting to realize a lot of my problems stem from my runaway level of self-criticism (and lack of self-compassion), while at the same time uncovering all of these other things that need work...ie, so many new things to be self-critical about! I'm so thankful that I have IC to help me through this, and to remind me that it's about the process, not the progress. I've always been very impatient, and I realized today that it's because movement/progress/accomplishment keeps the self-deprecating voice at bay. If there isn't any movement, or it isn't significant, I feel like I'm not doing enough and the self-criticism pipes up. To the point where I will give up (or not attempt) rather than have to deal/struggle with it. Part of what has made the journey of "self betterment" so difficult for me is that I don't have a defined external goal to work toward (there's no point at which someone gets a certificate for "achieving" self-betterment), so how can I know if I'm making strides? I've historically needed that progress bar to measure against, and I don't have any in this case. It's really anxiety-provoking, honestly. It makes me feel lost, sometimes.

For the time being, I've been instructed to watch out for self-judging and measuring thoughts and to be on the lookout for times when I feel like I "should" feel/do/think/say something or that what I'm doing is not "enough" (fast enough, significant enough, etc...). I've been warned that tackling them is going to be a very long, very slow process, because they are so ingrained. I've lived with them a long time, and it's going to take a long time to learn to live without them.

On that note: My IC sent me this quote, today, which she said she was reminded of during our session:

"Be patient toward all that is unsolved in your heart and try to love the questions themselves, like locked rooms and like books that are now written in a very foreign tongue. Do not now seek the answers, which cannot be given you because you would not be able to live them. And the point is, to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answer."

There's something so beautiful about "living the questions". Now I just need to figure out how. Baby steps.

I felt very much like your BS did. My wife affair was very brief, but only because I was tipped off to what was going on, and I maintain that undiscovered it probably would have gone on for years. She disputes that. I felt on DDAY that I should not have to stand for this and every fiber in my being was telling me to pack it in. I didn't.

Still to this day I am not sure why. Probably because we had a 25 year relationship that was really pretty good, and even though my kids were older and out of the house I didn't want to break up the family unit. I didn't monitor everything, but I too secretly wanted her to slip up again so I could do what I wanted and felt I should have done which was leave with no regrets.

Hers was a one and done, and after a tough year, we settled into a life of rug sweeping and kind of a marriage what was about 60% of what it was. I suffered knowing she got her life back while mine would never be the same. She suffered no consequence for what she did. I know many here believe that the WS suffers some, and I do buy into that, but not in the same way. The analogy is our marriage had become the red wine stain on the white sofa, and much as I tried to ignore it, that is where I focused.

She did try her best, but I just could not let myself be happy. I never forgave her for what she did, but more importantly could just not forgive myself for staying. I took some heat here for this, and rightfully so, but some of us just aren't wired that way.

It took me five years to finally after a lot of anguish to pull the plug.

She is devastated, and things are still not great for me, but I do have a feeling of relief that I haven't had in 6 years.

It is a horrible aftermath, and I feel for her and my kids, but I just couldn't live with myself. this is probably not what you want to hear, but some of us just can't get past it.

The good news is that there are probably fewer stories like mine here versus the ones where the BS does finally forgive and accept. I hope you are one of those.

WaitedWayTooLong - Unfortunately for me, "want to hear" and "need to hear" are often very different, these days. I know the "need to hear" is infinitely more valuable, and I'm coming to appreciate it more and more. Thank you for sharing it.

As much as I hope our story is different than yours, ultimately, the desired end is actually the same - I hope BH finds peace with whatever decision he makes. I hope he heals effectively. I hope he finds happiness. Would I like it to be with me? More than anything. But if he can't, he can't. Heck, even if he can but simply doesn't want to - I've already robbed him of so much, I can't bear the thought of hurting him any more. I've spent too much of my life denying my own feelings to wish that on anyone. I know the damage it causes, first hand. I'm sure your STBXW knows and feels the same, deep down. It's saddening to hear your story, but if this is what's better for you it will end up being the best for your family in the long run. It sounds like you have no doubt you did what you needed to do - you should take comfort in that. The rest will work itself out.

I know if BH and I split we'll be ok. It's terrifying, but mostly in the way all unknown things are. We have support systems, and decent jobs. We are both healthy and young(ish). We would be fine, after awhile.

If we stay, would we be ok? Could we be ok? That's the million dollar question. If the answer is no, then I hope we realize it sooner rather than later. We only get one life to live, after all, and I have enough regrets already.

I have been following your journey from the start. With every posting you make, I feel re-inforced in my opinions. I may be dead wrong but here is what I think.

Your H still loves you. He wants the M to survive. He does not want to D.

All of the things he says to you; not just those in your last long post, but those almost from the start; they are a combination of a cry for help and testing you. Testing to see if you are consistent in what you say. Testing to see if you are wishy washy enough to just give up. Testing to see if your actions/reactions match your words. Testing to see if you really do get what you have done to him or if you are just spouting things you have read that you should say. Testing the intensity and sincerity of your emotions toward him.

I think he desperately wants to believe but he has been shattered so badly that he can't let himself believe just yet.

And the fact that he can't let himself believe yet is the result of the other major problem he has. Many many males (maybe females also, I obviously can't speak to if this is a gender issue) have this issue. I did for sure. He feels like he must be terribly weak for even still hanging around you. He probably at times hates himself for not being able to just file for D. I suspect he probably has an almost constant internal dialogue looping around that a real man would say bullshit and walk away; would say I can do better than her; would say I will D her and let her suffer. And yet, in constant competition with that dialogue are the ache in the gut; the mental panic; the depression that somewhere deep inside he recognizes (and again hates himself for recognizing) that he still loves and wants you and the M.

I will tell you that the struggle between the internal D her ass Dialogue and the but I still love her feelings is excruciatiing. And so he copes by testing you constantly with words and with the physical shunning. Undoubtedly hoping that somehow it will lead you to words and/or actions that will allow one side or the other of his struggle to win out.

I wish I could offer advice as to what you could do pro actively. I am afraid that this is a struggle he has to resolve himself. I can say what helped me is constant re-inforcement that i was the one that was loved, that she respected me tremendously for the strength I was displaying in giving her a chance, by frequently showing physical affection ( not just sex; little things like a hug or kiss on the neck), by thanking me for giving her a chance and generally by showing remorse. Your posts seem to indicate that you are doing that (I recall he doesn't want the affection right now) so I think you just need to keep up what you are doing and letting him know you want HIM. Make the focus him. Making it the M leaves someone having the internal struggle he is having wondering if you just want the safety net. So while being clear you want to be married to him is necessary, it is more important for him to know that you want him, as a man and a person.

I hope the two of you can find some resolve and peace in the near future.

1985 - This has been what my gut has been telling me, too, but I've been scared to believe it out of fear that I was creating it out of thin air because I wanted it to be true so badly. That still might be the case, so I'm trying to remain divested. But this thought - even the possibility of this thought - is what gives me strength on the days when I struggle the most, and I'm glad for that.

I know the D vs R battle doesn't always result in R - I've mostly come to terms with the chances not being in my favor on that one. But: If there is any part of BH that still wants to be loved by me, for any reason, by God I want him to know it without a shadow of a doubt. Even if it doesn't save us. Even if he only wants it to soothe his ego. Even if he only wants it to break my heart (though I really don't think he'd do that). If he doesn't want it, it's easy enough to reject and explain away - manipulating, stage managing, fear of being alone, dependency... I'm sure the list goes on. But if he wants my love, he has it and I'm committed to showing it to him.

It's funny you mention wanting him, not the M, because losing him really is the part that scares me. It's not the M I want - he and I were together for 10 years before we got married, and I was perfectly happy spending my life that way - no M necessary. That's no less true now than it was then.

But...we don't have kids, so there isn't anything keeping us together if we split. We aren't from the same place, so running into each other would be very unlikely, too. Plus, even if we did I highly doubt a new girlfriend would be cool with him staying friends with his ex-wife who has a history of not respecting relationship boundaries. So I know that if we D, my time with him in my life in any capacity is limited, and that's the part I'm having trouble coming to grips with. There's a very real possibility we might never see each other again, after. I want him to be happy, and if that's what makes him happy, I will support his choice until the day I die - but at the same time, my heart twists in my chest at the thought of losing him completely, and I could kick myself for so stupidly putting us in this position.

CECS-

I too have been following along. I am a BW and I am so rooting for both you and your husband. I genuinely believe your heart is in the right place, now, and you're working your a$$ off trying to heal yourself and your husband, and help your marriage survive. As I know you would acknowledge, there is still a long way to go for both of you. It's all still pretty fresh. And the outcome may not be what you are hoping for, but I have confidence that both of you will find peace and joy in life again if you continue on this path.

I agree so much w/ 1985. I don't mean to falsely get your hopes up, but I've read your BH posts in addition to what you post here about your conversations and I agree...he truly sounds conflicted. 1985 offered a male perspective and I can offer from a female perspective, although I can't speak for everyone,... I too have struggled with feeling like I shouldn't forgive. I say things to myself such as:

"To forgive and attempt R would be to betray myself. To R would be to say that I'm okay with how he's treated me. Will others view me as weak and codependent if I do try to R? Will I just cause myself more pain in the long run because he betrays me again and our marriage fails? But at the same time, I love him and know I always will, regardless of the outcome. I miss what we used to share before things went downhill. And what if this was the thing that gets him out of his life-long struggles with his past and feeling rejected and unworthy? Am I willing to suffer for his good, and a potentially far superior, much healthier marriage than we've ever had because we both come to the table as healthier people?"

Like 1985 said, it is an internal battle that he has and will have to decide for himself. But I don't think he's as dead set on divorce as he makes it sound.

1985 basically advised for you to keep up what you're doing, making your husband the focus. I agree. But there is one more thing I want to mention that your H talked with you about: not wanting things to be "normal". Again, this is from my perspective and may not be how others feel, including your BH. But him not wanting things to be normal could be a few things. It could be just as simple as you stole his normal, that relationship/normal is dead for him, so why should you get to have normal? I know I feel this way a lot. And the other thing is, I don't ever want to go back to what used to be our normal. I want that relationship to be dead. That normal was when my WH thought it was okay to lie, cheat, and humiliate me.

I told my WH that if we were going to stay together, I want to create a whole new normal. We can't erase our history, but I want to start from scratch. I want him to treat me like we are friends and he's realized he has feelings for me. I want him to treat me like it's a new relationship that doesn't have all that familiarity; so it's slow going, not physical, more about just enjoying time together, getting to know each other better, trying to win my heart.

I don't know if that makes sense to you or anyone else, or if your BH would even be receptive to that. But I find myself thinking very similarly to him and that is how I feel about not going back to normal.

I hope this helps. Like I said, I'm rooting for you!

I'm not as articulated as 1985 and joypursuit, but I wanted to mention that I think you are doing great.

And even if your marriage ends up in D, all the work you are doing will make you a much better person for whatever comes next.

Dear CSCE

My heart aches for you, but even more so for your BH.

I have not read in your thread since you BH started posting and I have never posted here before. I have only now read in your thread since your BH has withdrawn for a while and I wanted a view on progress with your journey.

In your post a little way up you say;

He said something last night that seems worth noting - he said he was trying to figure out why he still wants me to send pictures of where I go, and why he still checks the GPS on my phone to see where I am, considering that he's so certain we're "dead" and the end is inevitable. He said he realized he isn't trying to confirm I'm "safe", but instead is trying to catch me in something. Like, if he can do that, then he can say definitively "we're done" and I'll have to agree. I find it interesting that he's almost hoping I'll do it again, because that would give him an "out". Any BS's relate to that feeling?

I fully identify with what he is feeling there. In our very first MC session I was told that if I could not accept the way the process was unfolding, then the marriage failure would be on me. Since D Day I have been bombarded with that sentiment. From every side and every party. It was that very sentiment that got me to subject the 2 of us and our 2 precious people to a year of false R hell. You might want to read a bit in D/S. It is a constant struggle for all BS’s who decide to D.

Our hearts have been ripped out of our chests. Our worlds have been utterly destroyed. The devastation is beyond comprehension. Reaching to places that we never even knew were there. To the very ends of our existence. And yet, when we realise we just can’t any longer, then the destruction of the M is all on us. It is a terrible burden to carry.

It might just be that that your poor BH is wrestling with. I have no advice on what you could or should do about it. Just wanted to share my experience, and possibly go some way to answering the question that you asked.

I suspect he probably has an almost constant internal dialogue looping around that a real man would say bullshit and walk away; would say I can do better than her; would say I will D her and let her suffer. And yet, in constant competition with that dialogue are the ache in the gut; the mental panic; the depression that somewhere deep inside he recognizes (and again hates himself for recognizing) that he still loves and wants you and the M.

This explains how a BH (maybe BW) feels extremely well. It was a CONSTANT merry-go-round for me. It took me a long time to get my mind out of that state.

He said he realized he isn't trying to confirm I'm "safe", but instead is trying to catch me in something. Like, if he can do that, then he can say definitively "we're done" and I'll have to agree. I find it interesting that he's almost hoping I'll do it again, because that would give him an "out". Any BS's relate to that feeling? I told him he might want to discuss that in IC - it feels like there is something important hiding in that sentiment that he should dig into.

There's nothing complicated about this. This is an emotionally disorienting process. He simply doesn't know what he wants yet because his emotional state is all over the place.

To attempt to magnify, you know that scene in old westerns where the two good guys go back to back, to fend off the bad guys? That was his idea of your marriage. Imagine if in the movie, one of the good guys just turned and shot the other one in the back? Simply watching something like that wouldn't make sense. It was irrational, it didn't belong.

So, your husband is trying to deal with being "shot" by the one person he was most sure he didn't have to worry about that from. You were the person he was supposed to go to when he was shot. He also has to deal with 1000 other things. Why do I still want the person that hurt me this much to help me through this? Why do I still want this person at all? Do I still want this person? How could I have been so foolish as to not see this happening. What red-flags did I miss? How could I have married someone capable of this betrayal? What do I tell my family and friends? Your affair has likely undermined his understanding of every part of his life.

Try to get better at riding this wave. It is your fault that this is happening to him, and the best thing that you can do is absorb as much as you can. The highs probably aren't as high as they feel, and the lows probably aren't as low as they feel.

In my opinion, this is either going to be over fast, or it's going to take a very, very long time to heal. I would lean toward very, very long time to heal based on the fact that you aren't already looking at divorce papers.

You had a year long affair. You are looking down the road toward years of doing ten times the work it took to have that affair in order to make your new marriage worthwhile. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

CSCE,

There's an element to this that no-one seems to have touched on, so I will brooch it here.

Yes, you're a wayward, a betrayer, and blah blah blah, but maybe your actions are an indication that you were/are not happy with your BH. Many waywards spend a lot of time questioning their 'madness' and why they did what they did, seemingly without ever wondering if their cheating was a product of their dissatisfaction with their relationship. I mean, let's face it, if you're happy and in love, you don't cheat.

Now you have cheated, you worry about losing your BH, but isn't what you fear losing really someone that you have been taking for granted for years? He supports me, he understands me, blah, blah, blah, but no matter what a wonderful, supportive guy he may have been, it did not earn him your loyalty, honesty, or fidelity. So his 'value' to you is clearly shown in terms of the men that you decided to chase when more than one entered your life. When your AP appeared, you forgot all about your BH, and betrayed him energetically.

Now that the affair has been busted, and your 'wonderful' AP turns out to have been dating lots of other women at the same time you were sacrificing your integrity and your marriage for the privilege of being one of his harem, you have finally reached the point of appreciating your BH's love for you before he found out what you have been doing.

I guess the obvious question would be: why did you make yourself such an easy conquest for your AP if your husband is such a great guy? Why did you sacrifice your integrity for so little?

Beyond that, if you had a blank sheet of paper, what reasons would write on it for why your husband should ever take you back into his life? You know what you did, and he does too. So why should he accept that, make himself okay with it, and say, "That's great, honey, I'm fine with that. In fact, I owe you my thanks. So let's just forget all about this and move on from here".

If you struggle to find a reason, you will begin to understand why he is struggling with it.

The more I think about it, the more I think for him it comes down to consequences. He said if he takes me back that means he's allowing himself to be treated the way I treated him. Like it's tacit approval of my cruelty. He said being around me will always remind him of how little he meant to me - how little I threw him away for.

But those strong unwavering values and convictions are a large part of what I love about him, and as much as I'd love for him to be able to consider a future with me, in some ways he wouldn't be the person I love, if he did.

CantSleepCantEat

She suffered no consequence for what she did.

waitedwaytoolong

I haven’t read much of your thread so I’m just reacting to the above.

I would suggest divorcing and living together. That way there has been a consequence. It’s like a sergeant in the army messing up and losing a stripe. You were demoted to girlfriend. That way he can keep his standards. If friends see the two of you they will say:

“She cheated on him but now they’re divorced.”

That way he can keep some self-respect. Also there is less reason to go over what you did because you paid a price. If he sees you being happy he will resent it less because you paid a price.

You rejected your husband and now he can reject you or take you back. You would be free to contact the OM but you don’t want to. You will have to date your husband to win him back.

It’s like what wolves do to show submission to the alpha wolf of the pack. They expose their neck (their most vulnerable spot) to the alpha wolf. The alpha wolf is then free to rip it out.

Make yourself truly vulnerable to your husband. If divorced you’re both truly free. Tell him that you will do all that you can to win him back.

I am going to add a bit based on something that M1965 said, and it might not be what you want to hear or popular in this forum.

So why should he accept that, make himself okay with it, and say, "That's great, honey, I'm fine with that. In fact, I owe you my thanks. So let's just forget all about this and move on from here".

To add to that, there is something that you both need to make peace with. Not everyone will agree with me, but in my experience this is absolute truth. You can't go back. You have irreversibly changed a number of factors in your relationship with your BH and no amount of effort on anyone's part is going to restore what was. While you are working on yourself, you are really trying to sell him on less. A lot of people here claim that their new relationship is better than the old one, and a number of factors can change the way we look at our relationships. You could be a better partner, he could improve his emotional support, all good things... but he will never fully trust you again.

The "good" news, is that he will never trust anyone that way again. He needs to mourn for the person that he was, and build something new as he is now. It's his decision whether he wants to do that with you or with someone else... or no one else.

I don't say this to make you feel hopeless, or to shame you. I trusted my wife too much, and it was in an unhealthy way. I think a lot about if I had been more assertive, and had better boundaries, perhaps things would have ended up a lot different with us. I learned a lot about myself. The pain that I went through isn't necessarily bad, it just is.

I look back now with more experienced eyes and see myself differently. I was naive and romantic, and blind in my trust. I never thought she could do this to me because I thought we were meant for each other. I'm more pragmatic now, and I see that I really just need a partner that has compatible goals, and that there are a lot of women out there that fit that description.

None of what I know stops me from mourning the naive, romantic person that I was. I still regret the loss of my own innocence.

^^^^two powerful posts from from xhz.^^^^

I will tack on some thoughts to what xhz said.

I agree wholeheartedly that you can never go back. But that doesn't mean that you can't move forward. I mean no disrespect to those who choose D. That is an understandable choice. I chose to move forward. Stops and starts. Bumps in the road, both large and small. Pauses to re-evaluate the decision to move forward. But I moved forward. CECS, It is not an easy road nor a short and fast one. But it is a viable one.

You just need to know, and be prepared to accept, that xhz is correct that you can't go back. I remember a few years ago we were talking about something and my W said, in a lighthearted way, you trust me don't you. I said sure, 95%. She was shocked and upset. She didn't expect anything other than full trust. She had to understand why it will never be 100%. Why it will never be unthinking, unquestioning as it once had been. A couple of weeks ago she called me at the office to tell me how she woke up so upset because of a nightmare she was having. That she found me at a bar with her girlfriend and then dream morphed into seeing me at home having sex with the girlfriend. I laughed and said "it's a dream, why be upset". She responded how would you like to have a dream where you came home and saw me naked in bed with another man. Slight pause before I said I have had those dreams, both asleep and awake. And it struck her what she had just said and she started apologizing emotionally. I told her it is ok; I'm fine; and I still think it is funny.

DDay was 32 years ago CSCE and our everyday life is (and for a very long time now has been) typical everyday life. The A is never mentioned by me and is part of the distant past. We each moved forward and left it behind.

But it IS still there and able to make itself known in small ways. I think what xhz is saying, and I am saying, is that you need to understand that moving forward for your husband will not mean his memory being erased. It will not mean everything will return to 100% status quo pre-A. I can tell you it is entirely possible to rebuild your lives into a happy and fulfilling M. To love and be loved. It just will be different in some ways that you each will need to accept and adjust to. The wounds will heal but the scars will remain. He will need frequent reassurance for a long time that he is not 2nd choice. You will need to continue to think about the words you use (see example above) until he is healed enough to see a bit of humor, or at least not be triggered, by off the cuff comments that would have brought a chuckle from him pre-A.

So again I wish both of you peace.

There's nothing complicated about this. This is an emotionally disorienting process. He simply doesn't know what he wants yet because his emotional state is all over the place.

With all due respect, this is very condescending.

His reality is his truth. 24 hours out? Sure. A month or two? He's a big boy and is theoretically capable of making unemotional decisions at this point.