SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm so sorry you had a tough day/yesterday. I've seen how hard you're working at healing yourself and doing whatever you can for your H. I could be wrong about the below observations, but these are my thoughts as a recently BS.

I struggle with how to articulate this, but commitment to an outcome doesn't equal control. Small acts of kindness and reminders of your affection and remorse are probably a mixed bag for him. It hurts to be reminded of the betrayal, but it's comforting to know you're still there.

Otherwise, he would be gone already. He's engaging with you because he wants to. Some part of him is hearing you and trying to make sense of things.

Anger is exhausting and leaves an empty feeling when it ebbs. Maybe he gets comfort from knowing you're there - to berate, question, cry with, reminisce, or just calmly talk to. It's very lonely to go through this as a BS.

My advise, be there until he doesn't see you or hear you anymore. In the meantime, don't waver in your remorse or commitment to healing even through real separation or D. You owe that to him and to yourself.

I really hope you both find peace. Maybe just enough to get through a whole night.

CSCE,

I'm sorry that this isn't the way you want this to go. Unfortunately, I think your BH is right and that this is the best decision for him. He cannot R for you when the A is a deal breaker for him and if he tries, he will take much longer to heal. There are BSes here who get a D 5, even 7 years, after trying R because it was a deal breaker and they struggle the whole way through every single day even if their FWS is remorseful. Some people just can't get over it and it is incredibly damaging to them if they try. If the only reason he stuck around this long was because you asked then this is unfortunately the best outcome.

That doesn't mean your journey has to stop here. That doesn't mean that your life will forever be terrible without him. There is a happier future for you too even if you can't see it. You have the chance to start over with someone else and do right by them this time around. You have the chance to become a better, happier version of yourself so that when stressful situations arise, your first instinct is to face them head on instead of acting out self destructively to yourself and your loved ones. That is invaluable and it is worth more than this marriage to your BH even if it's impossible for you to see it that way now.

And then, we talked for 2 hours about everything - If he had a time machine, how far back would he go to warn himself? How he can't imagine actually signing the papers but he can imagine after. How he's thought about how happy it would make me, if he said he wanted to try at R, but that would be just another thing he would be doing for me. How scared he is at the idea of trying, and having my conviction fade. How if a promotion at work caused this, how would I ever deal with having a baby? How he sees if he did try to R for me to be ending up like his parents (they are still married but have been unhappy for 20 years). How he's sorry he made me buy a new couch. How he imagines either being forever guarded with me, or having to open himself up to have me hurt him again. How he isn't looking forward to the hassle of selling our houses. How he can't see himself pursuing women. How he thinks I'm overly pessimistic about a future without him. How he feels like staying in this much longer would be abusive to me. How AP would take me back. How I made him feel like the butt of an incredibly cruel joke. How he never saw himself as the divorcing type. How his IC says he shouldn't make a decision this early...

It feels pretty definite (I knew it would be, whenever he said the words), and I can feel myself stuffing my feelings so I don't have to deal with them. I'm going to try to sleep, but in the morning I have to deal with actually feeling everything that's crashing around inside of me.

Give him time and don't give up. The only thing that you can do is to offer your hand and help him out of infidelity. If he wants you to sign papers, you do it. If he wants you to leave, leave. Make sure he understands that YOU understand that after the damage you've caused, you can only help him by giving him what he wants.

Hi everyone, thank you for your responses - they've been helpful. I apologize for going dark - haven't abandoned this thread, it's just taken me a few days to wrap my head (and heart) around everything that's been going on.

I'll be posting an update this week. Thanks again.

WS Only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 10:51 PM, August 24th (Thursday)]

Thedope - Maybe I've missed something, but it seems to me she's considered and even believes that he is right in most of his thoughts. (Please correct me if I'm wrong CantSleep.) She is reading, researching, and doing a lot of work to try and act based upon this belief. Could you perhaps suggest specific thoughts or beliefs of his that you feel have been neglected that would be beneficial for CantSleep (and us) to discuss and/or try and resolve?

[This message edited by c24j at 8:05 PM, August 24th (Thursday)]

Sorry I've been MIA for so long. There has been a lot happening over here, and it's been taking up my energy/focus.

So, after the conversation a week ago where BH told me we were "dead", things took a dramatic turn. Basically overnight, he was noticeably more "at peace". His moods were far less volatile, he started talking to me way more, and he put up with being in the same room as I was. On Sunday, he made dinner with me. He started saying goodnight. It was as though speaking the words let him put the struggle within him to rest. Seeing the change in him has been a huge blessing - it's clear that he's better off because of it, and I'm so thankful for that. As a result, I've been able to focus more at work, and had achieved some kind of sporadic zen regarding the outcome of "us".

He said last night that if he thinks of me like a friend, he can treat me like normal, but when he tries to think of me as a partner, he still gets upset. I can handle friends. I love how we are as friends.

Tonight, I blew it. I have spent all of this week so thankful for the change that has made life so much more livable for both of us - the interactions where he'd joke with me like we used to, and where we weren't miserable at even the thought of being around each other. It's like a 50lb weight had been removed from my chest and I could breathe again. But then, I ruined it. I got too comfortable. He was already worried that he was "confusing" me by being nice, and I should have noticed that and taken pains to prove he wasn't and that I knew where we stood. I didn't.

Tonight was the first time he invited me to watch something on TV with him. I sat on the couch, which he thought was too close, but he didn't say anything at the time. Then, later, he pointed out something to me on his computer while lying on the bed, and I laid down next to him to see. That made him uncomfortable, and he said so. I apologized immediately, but it was too late.

Now, he just came in and said he thinks we need to go back to how things were - limited talking, and no time together. That he feels like I'm pushing him, and that he's basically leading me on by being nice. I wasn't trying to push him, but I was falling back into old habits. I was letting my guard down, and letting the familiarity of how we were drive my actions instead of the reality of who we are now. I was careless, and stupid. I should have asked if it was ok that I sat on the couch. I should have asked for his laptop instead of laying down to see the screen. I don't know what was the matter with me, and I'm so angry at myself!

I'm crushed. I'm terrified it's going to go back to being miserable at home, and I'm kicking myself for not being more careful.

Please be gentle, at least at first.

From a BS perspective this is one reason I try to coach decisive action before too long. By not being decisive it allows things to fester, frustrations to mount as emotional roller coasters take their toll and frankly as the (negative) status quo becomes to harden people are less likely to fix things.

He does need time to let his emotions settle before making emotional decisions but at the same time...enough is enough. Ohforanewme is a good poster to read as he gave the situation some time to settle then made some hard decisions. Your husband is going the same with the 90 days.

You've identified what you did wrong. That is a victory!

What would old CSCE have done in a situation like this? Avoided conflict hoping that things would blow over? Made yourself feel better by self-medicating? Step back a little bit. You didn't want to rock the boat because things were going well, now you don't want to rock the boat because you don't want it to get worse.

Deal with this head on. Tell him what you feel, why you acted the way it did, and that you see what was wrong now. Ask him what went wrong to make him feel this way. Ask him what you could have done better.

Right now, you are having trouble functioning in a balanced way because you have every egg in your marriage basket. You are going need to put at least a few of those into the CSCE basket if you want a chance to save your marriage.

Patience and Time. Hang in there. The roller coaster doesn't always go in the direction one wants, and can occasionally make one sick. Breathe, be patient, chalk it up as a learning experience.

[This message edited by c24j at 6:31 PM, August 25th (Friday)]

Xhz is right and you didn't blow it, relax. In fact, you have opened a significant doorway for communication. AFTER admitting you overstepped as xhz suggested, tell him what his friendship means and calmly tell him you miss time together. Acknowledge how he feels and assure him you won't push.

I have been doing something very very similar with mcw and it's very confusing.

Last Weds, I told him I was done after I read something he'd written me. I said some not nice things. He broke down, etc. It was devastating for us both and too much at once. I panicked at the thought of him leaving, of US being over. We cooled of overnight and the next day we spent the day together. It was nice. We didn't talk infidelity much, we just healed as we would have at any other point in the marriage. It was a nice day that led into a nice weekend. He was progressively being more physical with me and it made me really uncomfortable. I snapped and reminded him he was not my husband and he would not be allowed to rug sweep and sent him away from me.

I suspect your H may feel you're not paying penance if you're enjoying time together, but he likely also craves your presence in a normal way. His feelings for you have not died or he'd be gone, but they have changed. My H thanks me for nice days and asks to give me a hug.

It's twisted for me as a BS. I want to know he is there, in case I need him for anything, I hate him hovering, when he's gone, I miss him and wonder where he is, when he smiles and jokes it gives me happy and familiar feelings, then I want to steal the smiles back because he didn't earn them. quite the party in my psyche.

i have thought for a while that you two need to be sensitized to being together in a normal way so you can have open discussions. This is a great chance to show him you heard him, but have a counter offer.

Sharkman - I'll try to track down some of Ohforanewme's posts. Decisiveness has never been a challenge for BH, though he's usually very methodical, so sometimes his follow-through is delayed.

xhz700 - Thank you. This has been hard. The hardest part is how much I've missed him. The last week has been a balm on that pain - like aloe on a sunburn. Interestingly, interacting with him in some sort of "normal" fashion actually made giving up on the outcome easier. Even though he feels like I was pushing, in those days I was actually the closest I've ever been to coming to terms with a future that doesn't have him in it.

I haven't completely figured out why, but it's like the constant tension between us acted as a layer of mental mud - getting through everything was a slog, and left me exhausted to the point where I didn't have energy left for much else. I think it was mutual. Having that mud cleared away made it so I could focus on the work I had ahead of me, and made the path seem so much more attainable because I actually had the energy to tackle it (and I'm talking just about me, here - not factoring BH into this future). I felt like "I can do this. One way or the other, I can make it". Apologies if it doesn't make sense - I can't really explain it.

You're right - old CECS would walk on eggshells and slink around like a kicked dog hoping to not make waves. You're also right that I need to address it. Avoiding it doesn't do us any favors. We talked about it a little bit last night, but we were both emotional. I'll talk to him tonight.

I understand that he needed to reestablish some solid lines in the sand because he felt like I was attempting to get him to "slip" (he mentioned physical intimacy, but I don't know if that was his sole concern). That thought likely upset him more than what actually happened, though, and if I had been clearer about where I was mentally, I suspect we would have avoided a lot of this (not only because he would have been more comfortable with my intentions, but also because I would have been more aware of them myself, which in turn would have likely made my actions better informed).

That being said, I've been thinking about it a lot today, and I've realized that there's no way for me to know his boundaries without him telling me what they are. He wants me to ask, and I do my best, but sometimes he needs to tell me - especially if I transgress them. (I should also clarify that I am talking about crossing his boundaries for what is too much/too close/too familiar, etc...)

We both could be better with our communication, I guess is what I'm saying. Neither of us have gone through this before, after all.

I've also been thinking about something he said a couple of days ago, that really hit me hard. I'm paraphrasing, but essentially he said "don't try to make things the same as they were before, because then you'd be the same as you were before, too." Even though he misinterpreted my thoughtlessness as being an attempt to direct our interactions, and even though interacting with him in a more "natural" way made focusing on myself easier, I have realized that thoughtlessness/carelessness is dangerously close to complacency.

I don't want to be complacent, and I need to stay vigilant -- it's all too easy to get comfortable and lose all momentum. I can't afford that. But the thought of going back to the icy coldness of the first 6 weeks is so disheartening and discouraging that it's hard to focus on much else. It's not about an outcome -- I swear it -- it's about the amount of effort it takes to get out of bed in the morning, and to get through the day. Spending day after day with someone who wants nothing other than to get away from you...it wears on a person. It doesn't leave much room for thoughts of "I can do this." At least for me. At least not yet.

I'm hoping for some balance where we can both use our mental energies toward productive things (aka minimal mud) but where we're also on guard enough to ensure that we stay focused and I stay accountable.

c24j - I keep telling myself this. When I feel thoughts of "I don't think I can do this" and beating myself up creeping into my head, I try to remind myself that it's not the end of the world. If the state we were operating within was so tenuous that something like this could destroy it, then it would have eventually fallen apart anyway - missteps happen, after all. It's discouraging, but breathing, patience, and lessons learned are all I can do about it now, and so I will do them to the best of my ability. Thank you for the reminder - they are always welcome.

Normal is a very scary place to visit as a BS. Normal usually means letting our (the BS's) guard down and that is a bad thing when still reeling from dday. So he's laid down some boundaries and that ok. Respect them.

I don't see how ohforanewme's posts will help at all CECS. If you want a couple you can model yourself after I'd look up

SoSorry17 and her BH SWAT. That story had a bittersweet ending with a lot of healing and respect even though they are no longer married...but I'm still waiting for one of them to return to announce their remarriage. Sosorry found remorse and empathy in the end but it was sadly too late - but she's a better person for it I'm sure.

sassylee - I can only imagine how frightening "normal" must be to a BS, especially less than 8 weeks from DDay like we are. As nice as it was, I was surprised by the change in BH this past week, for that very reason.

I assure you I want nothing more than to abide by BH's boundaries - I just need to know what they are in order to do so. That's a large part of what is so frustrating about this whole situation, honestly - a little bit of communication from either one of us would have prevented/fixed it. Had I been aware of the fact that those things bothered him, I wouldn't have done either one. (I'm not blaming him - I hope that's clear!) I don't want to make him uncomfortable, ever. I don't have any ulterior motives - I'm just trying to get through this while hopefully ending up better coming out than I was going in.

Thank you so much for the recommendation about SoSorry and SWAT. Ultimately, healing and growth are all I'm after - The rest is out of my hands. Do you happen to know how I can find their threads? I've been unable to figure out any sort of "search" function, so far.

Go to your profile page - the icon with the happy face in the upper right of one of your posts. Once in your profile - you'll see a search bar. Put SoSorry in - then choose SoSorry17 from the options that come up. That will take you to her profile. then click a link that says "view recent posts" or something similar. It's near the upper right of SoSorry's profile page. Then scroll to the bottom and her most recent threads/posts will be there.

[This message edited by sassylee at 9:15 PM, August 25th (Friday)]

Thank you!

As a brief update - I talked to BH about the events yesterday. He spoke of his worries that I was trying to make things like they used to be, or trying to force them to be ok.

I let him know I don't want to cross any of his boundaries or push him in any way, and that while the way we were interacting was nice and a respite from the atmosphere before, I was simply thankful for it (not attempting to leverage it into anything else), and that I wasn't reading into it. I told him I will do my best to mind boundaries I know about and ask when I think I might be approaching one I don't, but in that same vein I asked that he please let me know if I ever inadvertently cross one. He seemed receptive to the idea. I also explained that the reason for my behavior wasn't because I was trying to influence the present/future but because I fell into the habits of the past. I expressed that I will do my best to watch it, but that I'd welcome him holding me accountable, as well.

Overall, I think it went well. This evening hasn't felt too different from the last couple, though I've been making a point to keep my distance physically.

I think the biggest thing for BH is that he needs to know I'm not trying to influence him. Thankfully, I'm not, so hopefully I can manage to demonstrate that. It's of utmost importance to me that he feel as confident as possible in his eventual decision, no matter what it is.

A little off topic, but worth mentioning:

One thing that is going to be a challenge for us in the near future is my trip home for my sister's wedding in 2 weeks. The last 2 times I flew home (also for weddings), I saw AP. They were the first times I went to a hotel room with him. The first times any clothing came off. And of those times, the first was almost exactly a year from this upcoming trip (a year and a week). It's going to be hard - the whole thing is going to be one big trigger for BH. He hasn't given me much direction about what I can do to mitigate it, so my current plan is simply to be in contact with him as much as possible - sending him photos of where I am and who I'm with any time I go anywhere or do anything.

If there is any other advice anyone can provide for how to make this easier for him, I would appreciate it!

Will there be anyone there that your husband is close to?someine he likes and respects? That's who I'd spend my time with. Lots of face-timing. Limit the drinking and late night partying. And ask BH if there's anything he can think of that would make the wedding more tolerable. And make a list of your personal boundaries while at the wedding (no dancing with males with the exception of your dad/brother, no private conversations with men, etc.)

These are good suggestions.

Thankfully, I don't drink (something I picked up as a result of BH), which means all of my choices will be made without alcohol's influence. That didn't save me from the A, but at least it's some small comfort to know I'll be in full control of my decisions. I don't need any help in the "poor judgement" category.

I don't think BH is all that worried about the wedding itself. The only people I will know there are family, the groom and his parents and a few members of the bridal party. Plus, the fact that my parents know the whole situation is pretty much a guarantee that I wouldn't be able to get away with any behavior that wasn't above-board, anyway.

If I had to guess, BH is concerned about AP flying in to see me. He's done it before, and if I wanted to break NC, this would be the time to do it.

Honestly, I'm concerned about AP flying in to see me, too. He knows when I'm going to be home. He has no way of contacting me, so I'm sure it's crazy, but I've been super paranoid since DDay and just the thought ties my stomach into knots.

I'm staying for over a week - I'm making the cake, and decided to fly out the week before to have time to do that and in order to be there for the bachelorette party. Again, there will be thankfully no drinking on my part, but that's a long time to be gone. I'm worried that with the break in routine I'm going to mess up - like forgetting to take a picture to prove who I'm with, or something. There's also the importance of continuing the work on myself - I don't want to slack on that, with all the distractions.

Switching gears back to the present -

Tonight was rough - BH was ok for most of the night, but really unhappy during the check-in. He kept interrupting me, which is very unlike him, and I could tell he was struggling with something. I'm hoping it will come to light once he's had a chance to sleep on it and feels more like talking. In the meantime, I've started reading SoSorry's posts, and the similarities are notable. I haven't made a serious dent in them yet, though, and I'm working backwards. Even still, I really feel for her. I hope she's doing well.

Always check with your husband and his feelings on this - but I'd have lost my shit if my WH left for a week. Check with him but are you sure you have to be gone so long? If it was anyone but your sister, I'd have advised you not to attend period.

Has your H said anything about your trip?

Honestly, I'm concerned about AP flying in to see me, too. He knows when I'm going to be home

Before Dday had you made arrangements to meet with him when you were going to be there for the wedding?