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Your last two paragraphs really hit me. I assure you, I am doing everything I can to ensure there is no "room" in me for this. Absolutely everything. I'm horrified that it was there, to begin with. I would have sworn it wasn't, right up until the day I proved it was...

The last sentence makes my throat sting and my eyes tear up every time I read it. I will be better. I do not consider there to be any other option. But I don't know how to have compassion or understanding for myself. I never have, and I don't even know where to start. My therapist is helping with that - the consistent exposure to her compassion and understanding is acclimating me, kind of, but turning that inward is a real challenge.

One more note. This takes time. You are on step 4 of 23,981,554 in this process. You have a good start, considering where you started from (in an active affair).

A part of "the work" is understanding that "the work" isn't a straight line. There will be setbacks, plateaus, and defeats. Keep pushing, life isn't a straight line either.

If a random internet stranger can spare some compassion for you, I know that you can.

PM me if you ever need a pep talk.

GoldenR - I think there is probably a part of him that wants to R. There are little things he says that make me think a part of him is looking for signs of safety in me, even as he tells me he doesn't see it happening. I'm sure you're right that he's frightened to really consider it. He thought he knew who I was. If he could be so wrong, how can he trust his judgment about anything, let alone me?

I thought I knew me, too. I, too, thought there was no way I would ever cheat. I've proven both of us wrong, and now we are both trying to determine where to go from here. I think he believes my sincerity that I am determined not to let this happen again...but he's seen many convictions of mine come and go, before. He knows I mean it now, but is skeptical about if it will last. How does he know I'll keep doing the work? 2, 3, 12 years from now, if I'm in a situation where I'm feeling similarly terrible about myself, how can he be sure I'll have sufficiently improved to where I won't fall into the same behaviors and do this to him again? And, honestly, I'm terrified of that possibility. The fear of it is what motivates me on the days I'm tempted to wallow in self pity and despair.

I am dedicating myself to identifying and addressing the issues that made me vulnerable, and empowering the elements of my character that should have protected me (as well as figuring out why they failed me in the first place), but as certain as I feel that I will take the necessary steps to never allow myself to stray again, and as committed as I am to bettering myself, the truth of the matter is that only time will tell if my efforts are enough. It's up to him if he thinks I'm worth taking a chance on. I fully understand why that decision is not an easy one to make.

sassylee - Very well said. The days when I am most introspective are the days when I am able to adopt this mentality most effectively. It's almost like the more in touch with myself I get, the more I'm able to give up control of the rest. The days when I feel most disconnected from myself (often when I'm emotional or processing new information), it is much, much harder. I'm getting there, and eloquent reminders like yours are helpful. Thank you for the encouragement and the wisdom.

xhz700 - Your perspective is invaluable, and I am grateful for it. It's been consistently thought-provoking. Thank you again.

The story about your brother is not oversimplified. There's a decisiveness and self-assurance in the ability to make decisions that way that I've exhibited only rarely in my life, and that I've long envied in others. BH has it, but I generally lack that kind of confidence in my decision-making. He often gets frustrated at my inability to "just pick".

A thought just occurred to me -- Perhaps I wasn't "done" with the affair because of a fear of what I would do without the validation from AP. Even though I was getting less of it, and in general the affair was making me unhappy, I had grown dependent on that validation. Being put back in the state of disappointing everyone due to juggling responsibilities made me more desperate for affirmation (again), which would have made giving up my source of it very difficult -- after all, where would I go to get it, if AP was out of the picture? It's like firing your drug dealer -- if you do, where will you get your fix?

(I realize that I should have recognized the problem with needing external validation, sought in myself the esteem to not need it, and kicked AP to the curb...)

So even as I knew it was making me unhappy and a large part of me wanted to end it, there was another part that was unwilling to, because of not having a backup source for my drug. That at least would explain the mental boxing matches I was going through.

The comparison to a marathon is a good one - BH has been giving me plenty of opportunity to work on myself, and I understand the importance of getting myself "in shape" for the long road ahead. There is strength in me - I just have to dig deep to find it.

Regarding "the work" not being a straight line -- I know this to be true, but I also know I'm going to struggle with it. I take setbacks really hard and so it's going to be tough. I've spent a lot of my life "going with the flow" and now I'm swimming against a raging current. Having somewhere like SI to help remind me to keep going is going to be invaluable in the inevitable moments of discouragement.

And once again, the slightest kindness brings me to tears. Seriously, something is wrong with me. (I say that in exasperation, not in self-pity.) Thank you for the encouragement and the compassion -- I truly believe my inability to do so for myself is the root of my issues. Now that I have it in my sights, I can work to mitigate/manage it.

As always, thank you. This will be hardest thing I've ever done, but I have faith it will also be the most worthwhile. I appreciate you continuing to help me along the way.

There's a decisiveness and self-assurance in the ability to make decisions that way that I've exhibited only rarely in my life, and that I've long envied in others

A couple of things. Don't look at this as a weakness, just a part of who you are. There is good and bad to every aspect of your personality.

I'm going to go out on a branch here and ask if you have had some abuse issues as a child? Specifically invalidation from parents, harsh disapproval when you made mistakes, etc... Your decision making difficulties and conflict avoidance lead me to believe that you have some rather serious FOO issues that you might need to dig up.

Perhaps I wasn't "done" with the affair because of a fear of what I would do without the validation from AP. Even though I was getting less of it, and in general the affair was making me unhappy, I had grown dependent on that validation

Replace the word "affair" with "heroin" and the word "validation" with the word "high" in the above statement.

It's like firing your drug dealer -- if you do, where will you get your fix?

So even as I knew it was making me unhappy and a large part of me wanted to end it, there was another part that was unwilling to, because of not having a backup source for my drug. That at least would explain the mental boxing matches I was going through.

Exactly.

Now you know what you're dealing with. Everybody is susceptible to the brain chemistry. We like to think that our frontal lobe is running the show, but it's out parasympathetic nervous system that's really running the show. That's where we get anxiety, depression, anger, guilt. All of those very real physical implementations telling us we're doing something wrong, or something wrong is being done to us. Your challenge is to get to a place where you can identify those emotions and acknowledge them, instead of reacting. It isn't easy, and it isn't a destination, it's a lifelong process.

The comparison to a marathon is a good one - BH has been giving me plenty of opportunity to work on myself, and I understand the importance of getting myself "in shape" for the long road ahead. There is strength in me - I just have to dig deep to find it.

I hesitated before, but I would like to offer one caveat to the above.

Think of your relationship with your BH like a bicycle wheel. Let's say that the wheel is made up of 100 spokes. Let's assign each of those spokes a memory, event, any kind of connection between you and your BH. One might be your first date, first kiss, dinner at a nice restaurant, the way he hugs you, the way you smile, etc... There are actually millions of spokes.

The spokes used to be all about the two of you. Now, there are a lot of them, and I mean a lot, that are you and your AP. I believe he was your first and only, and that was likely a hell of a spoke for him. I know that at least one specific sex act was mentioned. (Sorry if this is hard to hear, but for me the sex was very important, as it is for a lot of BH's) Maybe you went to a specific place with your AP, a restaurant, music venue, whatever. When your BH looks at his relationship with you, it's hard for him to see anything other than the spokes that he "lost".

The point is, while you are training for your marathon, you may get an opportunity to connect with your BH. Maybe it's a conversation. Maybe it's a dinner date. Something more or less intimate, big or small, doesn't matter. In these situations, nothing less than a home-run swing is going to be acceptable. If he asks for the truth about something, nothing but unreserved, brutal truth is acceptable. He wants to go out to eat, take him where you went with the AP and make it all about him. Reinvent the wheel of your relationship with him. Vulnerability is key here (and likely the hardest thing for you to give). These are only examples, and your BH may not be ready for these specific things, or want them at all. The message is that you need to treat any chance that you get like gold, every day, for a long time.

I coach kids, and I tell them I would rather see them fail taking a big risk, than succeed by not taking one.

The letting go of the outcome thing is hard to perceive when we wrap it in context of US, what we want, what we need.

When you love someone, really love them, you ultimately want what is best for them, even if it means you are not the best. You should want him to heal fully from this, with or without you.

To look at it otherwise, remains selfish, true to our old (and hopefully dying) nature. It's easy to say let go of the outcome in a vague way that doesn't really say what it means.

Allow him to hurt, yell, scream whatever, but most of all allow him to heal.

Hi CECS,

I think you are getting amazing advice from many BS's and former Waywards. The insight they are showing is quite humbling.

I cannot hope to match that, so can only encourage you to continue with your efforts and wish you the very best in your journey towards true remorse and being the person you now want to be.

I think you are making excellent progress with the help of the above mentioned. Well done and good luck again

Every time I feel slightly bad for Can'tsleep, I remember how long the affair was and the whole couch escapade.

Thedope - if you can't offer support or constructive advice, then I'm not sure what you're contributing to her thread. Perhaps you can offer that on her husband's thread and if he ever comes back to SI, he'll read it.

Every time I feel slightly bad for Can'tsleep, I remember how long the affair was and the whole couch escapade.

There are affairs that lasted longer, for a few years, and the marriages still managed to be saved.

The average affair is not short.

I'm not going to go into the state of the A in my head, before DDay.

If your H asks questions about your state of mind will you answer them?

It doesn't matter if I wanted to end it or not, because the fact is that I didn't end it.

What if it matters to your H? Will you tell him that it doesn't matter?

Same thing with the invitation to our home - it doesn't matter if I intended for sex or not, because the fact is that it happened.

What if it matters to your H? Will you tell him it doesn't matter?

Any discussion of intent on my part minimizes the actions that were taken, and I'm making an effort to stop doing that.

What if your H tells you that it should be his judgement call about the effect of intent? What if his view on your avoiding a discussion of intent means your are hiding something?

However, I won't concede to intentions that I didn't have.

Nor should you. That would be lying. What if your H believes your failure to concede to intent you did have is withholding information from him? Withholding information needed to determine his future?

I might have been fooling myself - that is absolutely possible - and if I realize that to be the case, I'll be the first to admit it.

Fooling yourself about what? What might cause you to realize you are fooling yourself? Or is that too hypothetical?

Feelings are slippery things.

And your wiggling around that issue below:

On the one hand, there's what I wrote in that letter, and what I said in the voicemail on DDay. On the other, there's how I felt seeing AP waiting for me in the garage before work after DDay. Or hearing his voice on my voicemail last week. The evidence from within the A shows one thing. The evidence now shows another.

Do you see how you explain away the feelings, what you wrote, and what you said during the A? You explain them away here on this thread. What if your H feels that is an attempt to minimize and gas light him?

BH says if I say one word to AP, we're over. No problem - I have no desire to ever speak to AP again, anyway. On the other hand, BH is simply talking to me less and I feel painful isolation and missing him.

You've lost your AP and you've lost your H. You had them both. What was your intent, what was your state of mind?

Whatever I thought I felt for AP went up in smoke the second it was stress-tested.

Had it not been stress tested, then what? Slippery feelings, don't want to discuss intent for the A? What if your H wants you to walk him through this sentence to include what was in your mind and what your intention was if the stress test hadn't happened? Would you tell him that the question is irrelevant because the "stress test" did happen?

BH and I are not close with our neighbors, so I doubt any of them knew he was out of town. But as I mentioned above, I don't believe discussions of intent are productive.

What if your H believes state of mind is everything? And why shouldn't it be an indicator he uses to determine his future? Your continual avoidance of this issue of intent causes me to believe you are being deceptive.

I'm not interested in minimizing my behavior, and so it doesn't matter if I did or didn't intend to. Either way, it happened.

You actually do come across to me as minimizing, and avoiding the intent is avoiding the truth. Otherwise why not speak to it?

You're right - I didn't end it. What I thought or intended or might have done is inconsequential.

No, it is not. Everything in the A is of great import to your H. Will you tell him that his questions are inconsequential?

I know BH thinks I've been minimizing, and I'm attempting to stop that. At this point, I'm just going to stop discussing intent altogether, because it only seems to make people upset.

Try that one out on your H: 'H we really can't get into intent or my state of mind because it will make you upset'.

I can't prove it one way or the other, and it doesn't matter one way or the other, anyway.

We've plowed this ground already. Yes, it does matter. It is not inconsequential. But your H will not even have the information he needs to determine his future. Is it inconsequential because if he had the information he would not be able to prove it?

I am going to continue thinking about it, because I think it is important when it comes to "why", but I'm going to stop talking about it.

You want to control the information in this forum. This tells me you are predisposed to control the information you volunteer to give to your H.

CSCE, I don't know your intent or state of mind (and yes, that is a dig) but I think this thread is designed to beta test your messaging to your H. You've got a whole love fest going on here with you handing out affirmations, care and concern about people who are "thrashing" about; avoiding important questions ostensibly to avoid people getting "upset". You have carefully nuanced criticisms of JFO, obviously putting them into juxtaposition with this thread. You speak for him as being "triggered" by the JFO posts. As he should be...the posts are about your A.

Slightly over 50% of all affairs are over in under a month. I know some disagree but giving her false hope isn't really the right thing to do. Her husband has stated he is almost definitely going to file for a divorce. In my opinion people should be helping her learn how to accept that.

xhz700 - I don't have any abuse issues that I'm aware of, but I did feel a lot of pressure and my feelings/needs were often dismissed or explained away. "Potential" was a word that was used to the point that I grew to hate it. I never felt like I had a true voice.

My parents never argued, and my mother is even more conflict-avoidant than I am, so I never witnessed successful conflict resolution as a child. She would let people walk all over her, and then apologize for getting blood on their shoes. My therapist thinks the lack of this exposure meant I never really learned to deal with conflict appropriately, and I suspect the self-blaming I learned from my mother contributed to my own struggles with self-esteem and self-worth.

I have my next therapy appointment on Sunday, and I have so much to talk about!

BH brought up the "lost spokes" tonight, specifically regarding the sexual acts that are no longer just ours. I would love nothing more than to reinvent the wheel with him, but I doubt I'll get the opportunity.

He mentioned someone took something I said here about AP being more adventurous sexually and posted it on his JFO thread. I don't know the context or why someone would do that, but it resulted in him feeling even more sexually insecure than he was already feeling - declaring that I found him "boring" and unsatisfying, and once again saying that I should just "go to" AP and be with him, since that's clearly what I want. He seems to be having issues with the word "adventuresome", and is resistant to the idea that my difficulties with sexual satisfaction are no reflection on him.

You've been around here for awhile - is the cross-posting to JFO something I should be expecting more of? If so, BH might as well just read my thread directly -- at least then I can ensure the proper context.

With clenched teeth, BH asked me tonight why I'm putting him through this -- he hasn't asked that in awhile. I told him if being without me would make him happier, that I would sign the papers. "Even before the 90-days is up?" "Yes, if that's what you need." He said he felt like I would be happier, but I told him not to worry about me. He does that, sometimes, like he's trying to convince me that splitting up is what I want.

It's frightening, but you and sassylee are right -- I need to be willing to let go of this if I am going to have any hope of saving it. I'm feeling really emotional and a bit unstable right now, though, as a result.

smokenfire - I absolutely want him to heal from this, and have always maintained that if he needs to be without me to do so, he has my support and I will cooperate. I've asked (right after DDay it was admittedly begging) that he not make rash decisions, but whenever he's said he wants to file, I've told him I would sign. My concern is that he might need help to heal, and I don't want to abandon him if that is the case. An example would be IC - it's very unlikely that he would have started going if I hadn't suggested it, found a recommended therapist, and paid for it. But I believe it will help him immensely.

SorrowfulMoon - I've been very fortunate to get wonderful, thoughtful, insightful advice. It has been incredibly helpful and I'm grateful for it. I appreciate the encouragement and wish for luck - thank you.

Thedope - There is no need to feel bad for me. I got myself and BH into this, and I'm now trying to get us both out with as few battle scars as possible. I did a lot of things I'm not proud of over the last 15 months or so. Countless things. Things that make me sick when I think of them. As sassylee said, I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with your posts, but you needn't feel bad. I'm not asking for it.

TimelessLoss - I appreciate what you're doing, and that you've taken the time to respond. I don't know if you've read the whole thread but please know that the quotes you've pulled were after I made several attempts to explain my intents, only to have people tell me that they were lies, attempts to minimize, and that no one believed me. Retreading the same ground over and over gets us nowhere, and so I was attempting (maybe poorly) to convey that, with my comments about them being irrelevant.

What I mean by "fooling myself" is that perhaps there is more that I will uncover through IC or self-reflection regarding my motivations and feelings. I can't rule out that possibility.

I've gone into more detail on my intentions as well as the feelings I had for AP elsewhere in this thread - before I go rehashing it all, would you mind letting me know what about those explanations you find lacking or want to know more about? I'll gladly answer them, but I think the answers to many of your questions have already been addressed.

I'm not attempting to avoid any important questions - if there are any that you feel I have avoided, or glossed over, I will gladly revisit them. The treatment that you are interpreting as dismissive regarding my state of mind is only because I've addressed those same questions before (and, perhaps, because it was getting very late and I needed to get to bed).

I suppose I do have some criticisms of JFO - BH went there looking for measured advice, and felt that for the most part all he got was people projecting their own pain onto him and emotionally declaring what he should do - I can't say, because I haven't read it. Perhaps he posted in the wrong place, but he came to SI because I told him how it was helping me work through things, and he doesn't feel like he's gotten the same treatment. I was hoping that it would provide him the same amount of thought-provoking support as I've received, and in some ways I feel like it has failed him.

I should also clarify that BH was not triggered -- he felt that his situation was triggering others.

Thedope - Don't worry. Your concern is appreciated, but I am very much aware that my chances are slim at best. I don't believe anyone is giving me false hope -- in fact, quite the opposite. Most people here are trying to help me become better, either way, and have been cautioning me to divest myself from the outcome. Being a stronger person who has uncovered her "why" and sticks to her convictions will help me no matter what happens to my relationship.

That being said, what would you recommend that would help me learn to accept it?

Thedope - dude - are you reading this thread? We are encouraging her to fix herself and let go of the outcome. She has the right to lead a healthy life with or without her husband. Her BH is entitled to decide how he needs to heal and live his life. CECS deserves support to figure out her shit.

What do you have to add to that?

I don't understand why there was a lynch mob over in JFO, CECS. All betrayal is horrible but there are certainly foggier and more deluded WS that aren't being piled on - I think it's because you're both here and decisions have yet to be made. When both spouses arrive here fresh out of dday, and both sides are being told the story at the same time, I don't know - it gets some factions in a tizzy.

I also feel badly that your BH is upset he's triggering others because come on - this whole site is a trigger fest. Many members just can't go to JFO - the raw pain sets them back - even years out. But we're all responsible for what threads we choose to open - and we can choose to close them too. It shouldn't keep your H away. We all tell our stories - they are painful to read period.

I don't know how much you're really getting it CECS - but you're here and you're posting. That's a far cry better than those still hiding their affair or even still actively cheating and NOT here looking for advice.

I would simply offer this advice. Maybe stop telling him if he wants you to go that you will sign the papers or go or whatever.

I believe at least this was my feelings when WW said she would leave if it would help me, is NO I DON'T WANT YOU TO LEAVE I want to see you fighting for me, regardless of how hard it is regardless of what you think I want or what you think might be best for me.

Show him you are fighting for him regardless of what he thinks he may want or no matter what you may think would be best for him.

IMO every time you give him that option or offer it he sees it as giving up. At least that's how I felt about it.

I'm sure he wants to see you're putting in more effort, more determination, more desire for him than what you showed to your AP. I know I did.

Nothirdchance - I'll fight for him and for us for as long as he'll let me, and I'll be thankful for the chance. He's not letting me do anything with him these days, so the ways I'm fighting are through my self-reflection and making myself safe. I'd love to invest time with him as well, but he isn't receptive. Respecting his boundaries while showing him the desire is challenging, but I'm trying.

The concern about him feeling like I'm giving up is a real one - in response to what I said last night, he said I was "telling him to go", which crushed me. I only said it in response to him when he expressed that he wants out. I don't want him to feel like I'm throwing in the towel, but I also don't want him to feel like I'm forcing him to stay.

It's a tightrope.

my feelings/needs were often dismissed or explained away

That is abuse. Invalidation is abuse. The word potential was probably used to show you that you aren't living up to it. That word got used a lot with me too.

He mentioned someone took something I said here about AP being more adventurous sexually and posted it on his JFO thread. I don't know the context or why someone would do that, but it resulted in him feeling even more sexually insecure than he was already feeling - declaring that I found him "boring" and unsatisfying, and once again saying that I should just "go to" AP and be with him, since that's clearly what I want. He seems to be having issues with the word "adventuresome", and is resistant to the idea that my difficulties with sexual satisfaction are no reflection on him.

I'm sorry that he had to hear it that way, and I am sorry that you had to deal with the fallout. I'll say again, unfiltered honesty is key here. Clearly he didn't know that you felt this way about the AP prior to seeing the post. While it's hard to say these things to him, when you get the chance, try to share the things that you are thinking. As an example (not a great one) from my own life, I am seeing a woman now. In a conversation, I mentioned to her that there is a friend of hers that I find attractive. The purpose was to show her some context into MY work on who I am. The friend of hers is very unstable emotionally, and a part of what I am trying to solve is why I am attracted to people like that. What is it that's wrong with me that I see instability as exciting? I'm not interested in her friend because I see the train-wreck, she's a bundle of red-flags. I thought it was important to share that side of myself. The unsure, drama-addicted side, that I am working to understand better.

You've been around here for awhile - is the cross-posting to JFO something I should be expecting more of?

You shouldn't. I even hesitated giving the small amount of information that I did, but I felt it was important for context. My apologies if that was too personal. It is explicitly against the rules. Do your best to ignore information that is shaming or useless to you. SPECIFICALLY ignore people like Thedope. There is an element here of people that seem to have a connection from their brain to their keyboard, and just can't help but post, especially when the info is worthless. Usually they stick around and harass people for a week or so, then get banned or leave. For every one person that is like this, there are ten that are great. You'll get a lot of varying perspectives, and you can always find someone that has been where you've been.

With clenched teeth, BH asked me tonight why I'm putting him through this -- he hasn't asked that in awhile. I told him if being without me would make him happier, that I would sign the papers. "Even before the 90-days is up?" "Yes, if that's what you need."

There it is, your first home-run. You were more concerned with making sure that he felt safe, than feeling safe yourself.

One further note regarding the crossover posts, and the idea that your betrayal was somehow worse than average, or whatever. It wasn't, we see this stuff every day here. It's all sad, it's all disappointing, it's all shameful.

I could tell you things about my WW's betrayal that would blow your fucking mind. I still think back and wonder how a human could treat a human like that. Then, talking to my dad, I determined that all of the stories about my mom being on bed-rest for months when she was pregnant with me were because she went to a work conference in Chicago when she was six months along and had an affair. My dad had to drive to Chicago to get her and my oldest sister. Oh, and to top it all off, my mom had pawned my sister (then 15) off on the 35 year-old friend of the guy she was fucking, so she had alone time to get it on.

You read that right... my mom almost miscarried ME, after pimping out my sister to a man twenty years her senior, so she could have alone time to get pounded in a hotel room, which caused my dad to have to drive 16 hours round-trip to get them.

--

So, you are doing well. Treat this forum like Buddhism, take what you like, and leave the rest.

in response to what I said last night, he said I was "telling him to go", which crushed me

These are the words of a profoundly hurt man. This takes time.

Every day he doesn't tell you that you are done is a precious gift. Make sure he knows that you feel that way.

Xhz700 - I'm saddened by BH's mental state, yesterday. The cross-post prompted him to ask some things that I'm sure are going to make the mind movies worse, and I hate that he's feeling emasculated and insecure. I don't think he's upset because he feels like I was keeping it from him so much as because of the feeling of inadequacy it provoked. His sexual confidence is 100% based on me, and I've ripped it to shreds. He has no interest in even touching me, let alone being intimate, and so even though I ache to connect with him I am at a loss for how to soothe that hurt. I expect that the insecurity would prevent him from trying, even if he wanted to - though I don't anticipate him wanting to for a very long time, if ever.

But, even with all of that, he still did the nightly check-in with me. I was shocked. Every night he agrees to do that is a night when all is not lost.

He seems genuinely puzzled as to why I'm insisting on staying, though.

"Why would you want to live like this?"

"It'll never be as good as it was, and that wasn't enough for you, anyway."

"Wouldn't you be happier at home, around family and friends?"

I suspect it's his wounded pride talking - trying to protect himself by suggesting it, like NoThirdChance kind of mentioned. He doesn't say those things in anger, or accusing me. I think he's genuinely trying to understand. It's like he hasn't let himself accept (or doesn't trust) that I truly want to stay for the reasons I say I do. I can't blame him.

But I'm not going anywhere until he makes me. Every day that he doesn't kick me out is a gift. Every word he speaks to me is a blessing. I'm grateful for all of it. I tell him thank you every single day (usually for sharing his feelings with me).

PS - I'm terribly sorry to hear about what happened with your FOO. I can't even imagine what it must have been like to learn that...

But, even with all of that, he still did the nightly check-in with me. I was shocked. Every night he agrees to do that is a night when all is not lost.

It's clear that he's very hurt. I've been there. I was emasculated too. Testosterone is a hell of a drug. I was very close to tracking down the asshat that screwed my wife and beating the living hell out of him. I am not a violent man, and it was not a good feeling.

"Why would you want to live like this?"

"It'll never be as good as it was, and that wasn't enough for you, anyway."

He is puzzled. Affairs are an irrational act. I will note that he is asking future oriented questions, which at least says that he is thinking about the future.

Say you don't want to live like it was, or is, but you hope that it can be better/enough.

Say the affair had nothing to do with him, and you are working to find out why you let it happen, so you can avoid it in the future.

It's challenging work. Imagine you're at a restaurant, you get your salad that you ordered, eat it for a while, push it aside and order loaded cheese fries (or insert whatever awful food you like here). You really ate the hell out of those fries. Any observer would see and understand the situation, you didn't want the salad, you wanted the fries. There is ZERO nuance to this situation, it is what it is. That's how your BH sees it, and it's going to be hard to change his mind.

Now, people who understand infidelity for what it is know that you wanted the salad AND the fries. You convinced yourself that you deserved the healthy benefits of the salad AND the delicious salty fatty goodness of the fries, at the same time, all the time. You were selfish, and had utter disregard for anyone or anything that said otherwise.

Ending the metaphor, there is a huge hole inside of you that you were (are?) willing to throw anything into in order to fill it up. Attention, external validation, ego-stroking, you'll take it all. It took me a LONG TIME to get to this understanding. Years. But I did.

I can promise you that the general effort in your BH's thread is to get him to understand that it isn't about him. It's debilitating, and it doesn't make sense, but it's the truth.

Your BH will get there eventually, and he'll have to make a decision what he's going to do about you and your marriage.

If he wants you to sign divorce papers, do it, and don't give up. If he wants you to stay away for a long time, do it, and don't give up. If he's what you want, and you aren't just afraid of being alone, don't give up!

All truly isn't lost until it is.

CSCE, I totally get where your BH is coming from when he says:

"Why would you want to live like this?"

"It'll never be as good as it was, and that wasn't enough for you, anyway."

These are excellent questions because your H is a bright guy. Why do you want to stay in the M? Don't tell him because you love him. That will fall flat, because what you did for the past year is not what a loving W does to or for her H. Really think about this and try to provide an answer that might make sense to him.

Also, he seems to understand that your relationship is fundamentally and forever changed by your A. I don't mean to be dramatic, but do you also realize this? This is the crux of his second statement. Your actions have planted the seed of doubt in his mind about you that won't ever go away completely. He may be seeing a future with you as a future of questioning whether things are "good enough" to keep you from straying again. That's not a future many people look forward to.

You and your AP shoved a broomstick into the spokes of the wheel you shared with BH and sent him sailing over the handle bars. The result: a broken wheel and a broken H. Because he caught you "breaking the wheel", something neither one of you thought was possible, you are no longer viewed as the kind, safe, loving person he thought he married. He's trying to figure out whether it is worth it to try and love a new you. And he may be thinking that'll be more difficult than developing love for someone who hasn't hurt him.

I don't say these things to discourage you, but rather to try to provide a potential window into his perspective. Maybe ask him some questions to see if he thinks like I do. I hope both of you heal from this as wholly as possible.