SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Bro, I completely undertand and i feel the same way.

For some, it's a deal breaker. I tried but felt the same way as you... and it sucks.

I couldn't get past it.

One last thing. It sounds like you feel trapped right now, based on internal and external forces. Stuck on the road. A trapped animal is a dangerous animal.

Go see a lawyer and find out all you can about your options in divorce, talk to folks who have walked that path, really think it through what life could be like down that path. Visualize it. Do the paperwork. Hold it, and your future, in your hand.

Turn the trap into a choice. Present yourself with the choice of whether to stay in the marriage or not. Once you know you can bail out and life will go on (and may well improve) then every morning that you get up and do or don't leave your wife, you know you made a choice to stay. That change of perspective is all the difference in the world, because it puts you in control. You need to control your life right now.

Take control, live authentically, do your best and let the chips fall where they may!

Sending best, Spock.

Read my post Sex and TMI in general. I hear you. We are about the same amount of time out.

I have days where I'm super angry like that day I wrote that, and triggering like crazy. And then I have days like today. I'm better today.

On my good days it helps me to ask myself objectively what my husband should do to make me feel better. And I give him a list. Sometimes the list is fair, and sometimes.... We will just say I believe in Acts of Contrition.

And I'm still angry. And I haven't forgiven. Personally I don't believe in the whole forgiveness for yourself crap. Thank you I'm fine being pissed. Works for me. (Why it helps me is another question I'm working on).

I hear you. Sometimes reconciliation looks really ugly. Truly, it is like the Dread Pirate Roberts from the Princess Bride- I go to bed thinking I may divorce him in the morning. I haven't so far, and some days are better. My post today wouldn't be like my other one, where several people suggestion I should cut bait.

But I do think bring it up with her and give her a chance to fix it. And tell her all the dirty details about picturing her with him (Boy do I understand- my husband's AP was 21). And if you can objectify things she can do that may help then try.

And I'm done having sex for him. If I don't want to, I'm not going to. My homework was trying to fix my codependency, and holding that mirror up sucked. Still looking at it now.

Part of me wants to say you're normal, all of me wants to say I'm sorry and this sucks.

I just wondered if you had posted here before with a different name as your story sounded familiar.

Mr.Spock you have gotten alot of really good advice here. I would like to add that maybe you will find alot of your answers through self reflection and if you are religious maybe looking towards your faith for peace in whatever form that maybe which could be clarity to divorce your wife or finding the ability to truly forgive and rebuild a honest marriage. A are deal breakers for most of us. I know it always was for me. I am only a few months out so I am still working through alot of raw feelings and emotions but please don't continue to live this way. You are torturing yourself daily to stay in a marriage when honestly there could be someone better out there for you.

MrSpock,

That was gut wrenching read. So sorry you are going thru this. I do not think your current situation is sustainable long term. The stress is too great. Your health, both mental and physical, is going to suffer even more than it already has if this continues. You are not doing your kids any favors by working yourself into a early heart attack. They deserve a dad who is not dying inside.

It is what it is. By that I mean...ok, I love fruit. All types, typical domestic stuff and exotic varieties like Dragon fruit. But for some reason I don't like Mango. Its the taste, the texture. I have tried it six different ways. Every couple of years I give it another shot to see if anything has changed. Nope. Just not wired to like Mango.

For some human beings (statistics would suggest most), infidelity is a deal breaker. Its how they are wired. To go against that wiring is a losing battle. Your going against your core beliefs, your core wiring.

So its not really about what she is doing. Like you said she is doing everything right. Its about you. You cannot get over it, and that's fine. Its ok. You gave it 3 years. More time and therapy is not going to bring your love for her back from the grave she put it in.

Its time to stop living the lie.

IMHO for both of you, you need to move on. You need a chance to heal without the daily triggers. To make a new relationship with someone who will love you, stay true to you. And your wife could perhaps find someone who can love her. Someone she has not betrayed.

So I don't think you would be blowing up her world. Not if you approach her honestly. Calmly tell her what you are feeling, everything. That it is not getting better, its getting worse. That you cannot go through the motions any longer. If she truly loves you she will understand. She will not like it, but she will understand.

Brother, you fought the good fight and it isn't working for you. It sounds like it's time to cut this loose and start thinking about your own happiness. I know in your mind you don't want to blow up her world, but the honest truth is she blew yours up. You gave it a hell of a try, but it seems her 3 year affair was a deal breaker for you. And you need to hear that is OK. It is OK. You have been a stand up guy, and in the future your kids, when grown, will appreciate that. Please, don't continue to punish yourself for her transgressions. Free yourself, and search for happiness. It is OK for this to be a deal breaker. Don't worry about her, she didn't worry about you when she was screwing around. Please, take care of yourself. Good luck to you my brother.

That was the most gun wrenching and authentic description I have ever ready - and a perfect description of me. I am a woman, and I feel the same way. (His A was for 1.5 years with my closest friend).

He is somewhat remorseful,but very arrogant and narcissist. I hold resentment and anger in and I don't even think I could put my feelings into thoughts until reading your post. What you said is exactly the way I feel.

I don't know what to do either - I don't want to blow up anyone's world, but I also never feel happiness, or really feel anything (other than the love for my children).

The thought of sex repulses me - I do everything under the sun to avoid it and I just do NOT FIND him attractive. He is always trying to convince me to just "do it" and I will eventually start feeling attracted to him again. I just feel NOTHING.

I am not sure what the next steps are, but your words really resonated with me. I am really glad I read your post.

It was suggested to me that I seek therapy for PTSD as well - and I do think it was so traumatic it has permanently changed me.

It sounds like you are a crossroads. You cannot continue as you have been. It's killing you.

Are you 100% committed to staying? Or do you need someone to tell you that it's OK to let go and move on?

If you absolutely want to stay, then you need to find a way to make your marriage a real marriage again. Get in IC for your PTSD. Really go through the hurt and deal with it. Let it out little by little. That's what I've been trying to do. The hurt is normal, to be expected, and I need to embrace it and feel it and let it lessen each day. And I do feel it has been. Journal, talk to friends, post on here, face it and deal with it. We're 9 months out, so not as long as you, but I don't let the fact that it's been 9 months since DD and a year since my WH slept with her mean that I am "supposed to" be at some further stage in my process. I am where I am. We are where we are. Tonight I was angry about the way he makes decisions without me and prioritizes himself over his family. So I told him, we talked about how to improve it, and then I let him touch me in a non-sexual way and hold me. I am still angry (with reason -- our relationship has been out of balance for a long time) but I am unburdened and doing my best not to build a wall around myself. Think of yourself with your hands open, letting go of the anger and letting your wife in. From your description, it sounds like she would be open to hearing your feelings and working through them.

Or maybe the deal-breaker of her affair really means the deal is broken. In that case I wouldn't hold on any more. I don't know, all I can say is that this reconciliation stuff is really hard even when I feel mostly positive about it and think we have a good shot and a good connection. I can't imagine continuing on day by day living a lie. Life is too short. No one wants obligatory love. No one wants pretend intimacy. In the long run, you are doing your wife and children a favor by choosing to be your authentic self. My WH's parents stuck it out for 30 years, and then she left him for an incarcerated felon she was having an EA with. My parents modeled compromise and connection. WH can see in retrospect how his parents' marriage was lacking, but that doesn't mean that their bad example didn't impact him. You want your children to know what love is, IMO. So if you absolutely cannot move on and love your wife again, then you should let her be free to find someone who can. Just because she's an adulterer doesn't mean she deserves a pretend marriage.

Good luck to you as you navigate this. I just hope that whatever you do, it's moving forward, for your sake. YOU deserve that.

[This message edited by swmnbc at 9:36 PM, January 15th (Friday)]

I can relate to a ton of what you posted. Be direct with her. I'm 5yrs out. Not sure I'm reconciled. But I've come to accept that my life is altered. And I didn't get a vote. I was angry a long-time about that. Trying to understand and process my WW's thinking. Realized a never could. That was a useful moment.

[This message edited by Ghostrider at 10:09 PM, January 15th (Friday)]

Thanks guys

I really appreciate you taking your time to support and give advice to some lost soul and a complete stranger on the Internet. It's amazing. All is not lost. There are still good people out there. We had sex tonight (it is still early morning here). Thanks god the nightmare is over. She fell happy, satisfied and fulfilled asleep. I stood by my marital commitment to serve and please her. Now, being away from her I feel a little bit better. I've become, comfortably numb (like in the Pink Floyd's song). I have read all your responses. Really good and amazing stuff! I don't agree with everything. Yet, even this was helpful. I will answer all the questions and provide you with the information you need. I'll try to answer each and every post with a personal response. I still need some time. I read and reread everything. I need to process and let it sink in me. You are amazing and I will try to answer everything honestly and as best I can.

MrSpock,

I feel for you. As I read your opening post, it makes me wonder what it must be like to have a remorseful spouse. Infidelity is a FOO issue for me due to my fathers transgressions, so in some ways my WW's lack of remorse may ultimately prove to be a blessing because I think I might very much have found myself in your situation, feeling trapped which must be a special kind of hell.

Something has to change....clearly. You might consider converting your opening post into a letter to your wife...to get your feelings on the table, exposed, unencumbered. The longer you bottle your feelings, the more you are hurting yourself and the possibly of true reconciliation. I think that's what I would do in your situation.

I'm on a very different path to you because of my WW's choices following her affair, but one of the things I've learned, and that makes me feel better about myself as a person, is to open up about my feelings and share them with people that matter to me. In your case, that would include your WW because it's clear from your actions that she still very much matters to you, in spite of your negative feelings towards her.

For me, opening up was a release, a relief, that helped tremendously with healing. I don't see how you have anything to lose by trying this approach. The alternative, doing what you're doing, clearly isn't working.

Best wishes and good luck!

[This message edited by Phantasmagoria at 11:22 PM, January 15th (Friday)]

I think there are a fair number of members here who can relate to you, myself included. This can be one of the most potent psychosomatic events we will ever experience. Everything is painful and confusing - triggers and memories yes, but happiness and good times as a family also have this weird sting that seems to pervade every experience. It seems as if we will never feel "normal" again, even when things are completely balanced on paper.

I have a young daughter, and not a day goes by that I don't wonder if I'm ruining her by staying in a marriage where sex is currency for a peace that is, in fairness, more than a lot of people can hope for on most given days. Then I picture DD5, suitcase in hand, trudging between the home of her mother and father and I seem to fear THAT picture a percentage point more than the picture of staying in a marriage where my ambient resentment can be dialed up or down quite easily by every micro-interaction FWH and I have.

The best advice I can offer, rowing in a boat much similar to yours, is to try to live your life in moment-sized bites. That doesn't mean ignoring the bigger picture. It means taking control of your day outside of how the marriage is affecting you. For starters.

Regarding the marriage, it sounds like you are not reconciled. You are living together. Those are very different things. You have resigned yourself to a lifestyle that seems to be slowly chipping away at you, yet the more time that passes the more you tell yourself that since you've already done it this long, it becomes less and less acceptable to choose a new path.

Not true.

You don't have to answer to anyone but you, as long as you are acting with integrity. You owe your WW the truth before anything else, and just faking it is not fair. Maybe there's a part of you staying because you have hope that someday the "normal" will trickle back. I can guarantee that it's not going to look like anything behind you, but who's to say how you'll feel tomorrow?

Keep talking it out with yourself. Kindly. Honestly. And allow yourself to correct course - when you're ready.

I've been thru hell and back in several variations - hence my name - oftencheatedon.

But I am now happily remarried to a wonderful man. I cannot tell you the difference from "being madly obsessively in love", to "this is the man of my dreams - but oops he cheated" to a real true relationship with someone that I love, respect and TRUST.

My DH and I are older - I am his third wife. He was cheated on in both marriages. We both wake up every morning just reveling in what it is like to be with a person that is trustworthy. He posted on FB yesterday that as far as he is concerned he won the big lottery because he is with me.

Hi Walloped

Thanks for your kindness to try and help me to sort things out. I want to start with your post because it is interesting. It surprised me. I didn't expect it. Here are the answers to your question.

What did you do for yourself?

I'm a veteran but I'm still a soldier down deep my soul. It's about sacrifice. About service! The concept of doing things for you sounds selfish to me. I'm here to serve others.

Did you give yourself time to grieve for the marriage you had?

Yes, I'm grieving not only the marriage but the loss of my love. I'm doing this still today. But I don't want it to consume me. I try to control it. I can't afford the privilege of getting lost in grief. It's a pity party for me. I have also to meet expectations.

Did you rant and rave

No, I haven't

and let out the anger

I'm not sure what you mean by that? I expressed it! I told her I'm angry. I will never lose control. It’s about self-restraint. I can't see how it can benefit me. Why should I? This not what I'm usually told to do!

and hurt and pain?

Yes, I told her. She knows it.

Did you cry and show her your pain?

I cried a lot. I'm still doing. I never did it in front of her. I don't think it could benefit me. She can take advantage of me. I was hurt once and I will never put all of my defense mechanisms down with her. It doesn't matter how much I trust her. Even if it is100 percent! Now, it's about trust and verify.

Does she know how badly you were hurt by her actions and what it has cost you?

I told her everything so I think she knows. Her actions are maybe the best proof that she understands.

Your doubts and fears?

Many of them! Maybe the most of them! Yet, not the most primal ones! As with the crying I will never put all my defense mechanisms down with her.

Because if not, then the work she has done, while very admirable, was addressing the wrong problem. She was working on your marriage instead of working on you.

This is very interesting point. I have never thought about it in this way. I have never made that distinction. There is something about your statement here. I still don't know if such a distinction is possible, but I want to think about it.

Frankly, you haven't reconciled.

It came up in many posts so I want to answer this. I see it differently. There is me, there is her and there is the marriage. She's happy. The marriage has survived. Everyone's around happy. I've met the expectations from me. Who cares about my feelings or my happiness? Maybe, it's a matter of definition. I don't know. It's not that I don't want or do not deserve to be happy. I do. But this is what it is.

Communicate with your wife. Express yourself. Share what you're going through. Yes, it will be hard on her. But she's got to know it's not all roses with the two of you now. Let her in. Tell her why. Decide if you want her help in working on it. And above all, communicate, communicate, communicate.

I did it. For two years. I don't want to disappoint and hurt anyone anymore. It's not what everyone expects from me. I'm not talking about my wife. I'm talking about everyone else.

[This message edited by MrSpock at 4:14 AM, January 16th (Saturday)]

Hi Merida

Thanks for taking your time to help me.

dude, you wrote yourself you are not living authentically to how you feel

gently = you are not reconciled. Stuffing that mess in a box is not the same as healing...

YOU are hiding all of this from your wife, so how can you consider yourself reconciled when you are so not healed?

I don't agree with you. I answered this to Walloped. You can read it in my response to him. By the way, I don't think personal healing and reconciliation are inseperable. In fact, they are.

You wrote of your resentment and your hatred and you clearly have not forgiven yourself for staying

This is very true. I don't know if i'll ever be able to.

= which by the way is far more admirable than cutting and running IMO

Why?

When you two have sex it's a nightmare = why are you willing to put up those walls with her in such a sacred place???

I did not put the walls. She did! That place was sacred. Now, it is one big reminder of her infidelity. It is not sacred anymore and she did it to us.

That you don't let her please you is HUGE

Why? She's happy, sexually fulfilled and satisfied. Why is it such a big deal! I do it because I need some level of detachment in this situation. It's to keep my sanity while trying to be there for her happiness.

I echo the depression but seriously at this point IC and be OK that opening the box will be painful at first, but that is the only way back to what IS ALWAYS IS and real authentic LOVE

Authentic love or maybe true love between the two of us is when everything is back to what it was before. This is how I see this. I also think it's impossible. If it's impossible, here's my struggle. We have to rebuild a new love. It will not be authentic. So, if I have to rebuild a new love, why not with someone new. And if it is someone new, I'm not sure it is possible. I haven't left then and I'm still not leaving now. Just looking for answers! Time is irreversible. I'm stuck between external and internal forces. I'm in no man's land. One poster has mentioned this and has done a great job with his analysis.

peace as you process and here is to hoping you tear down the walls (hence my reading why you called yourself a "spock") and building that bridge to your emotional self

heck, you have an excuse to see Inside Out? I love it when a kids' movie can speak to our own inner child

I think you misunderstood this or misread it. It's not how I am; it's how I wish to be. At least a little bit of that! It was never my personality. Now, it's my ideal as to leaving a more balanced life.

[This message edited by MrSpock at 5:51 AM, January 17th (Sunday)]

When did the affair happen and when did you find out? Was the affair already ended when you found out? How did you find out?

I'm reading your answers so far, and it seems you have a bit of a "martyr" type mentality. You are willing to sacrifice yourself and your happiness for the good of everyone else. That is great for a soldier. Not so good for a relationship, because it breeds resentment....in BOTH partners.

I think the main question here is: what do you really want?

Do you want to continue to live with your walls up, pleasing everyone but yourself. Building bitterness and resentment? Remember the grumpy old man in Dennis the Menace? That is what a long life of bitterness and resentment builds.

Do you want a good, loving, intimate relationship with someone? It is possible, even after betrayal, but it is a LOT of work. Even if you never have infidelity in your life, building something like that is a lot of work. It involves baring our souls to someone else, and that takes a lot of courage. Much more courage than walling off and not ever allowing someone in because of the possibility we may get hurt.

I never did it in front of her. I don't think it could benefit me. She can take advantage of me.

You need to show her your real emotions, if you are going to stay and want more than the hell on Earth you are living right now.

Why? Because if she thinks everything is just peachy and that you are handling this okay, then she will never be able to truly give you what you need....because you aren't letting her know exactly what you need. If you think you are punishing her by never letting her get close....please remember....you are also taking away your chance at real love and intimacy.

And yes, she could possibly take advantage. If she does, that will show you her true nature, and why would you stay with someone that does not truly care about you and your feelings and emotions? Also, you have to realize that you are strong enough to handle it if you get wounded again. We have to learn to trust ourselves again.

which by the way is far more admirable than cutting and running IMO

Why?

I'm answering this from my POV. I've done both as I said in my first post. With my original WS, I cut and run. It was scary and a bit painful, but far far easier to move on from because I didn't really have to look at my own self and figure out how to commit and work through intense pain. I just moved on.

I'm with my new SO of 3 years now. We are doing the hard work of reconciling. For me it is much more difficult because it means I can't run from myself and the relationship if I want something real and authentic. It takes more courage to open up and allow myself the possibility of being wounded again. It's scary as hell. Sometimes I have periods where I feel I can't trust anyone in this world. Collateral damage sucks. But I know what I want. This is my one and only life. I want to know true connection. I want a life partner that knows me inside out, and I want to know him. I want someone that will have my back no matter what happens. This is what we are rebuilding from the wreckage. For me, it is worth it. I'm scared, but I am doing it anyway. That is what true courage is.

My personal feelings which may be way off base here. You are unhappy enough that you seeked out this site and posted here. Obviously you are in deep pain and NOT happy with your life.

You are trying to figure out which path will bring the least pain for you and others. You are trying to do what you feel is right for a good soldier, but inside it is making you miserable and unhappy and bitter.

The best gift you can give your children is a happy, loving, authentic parent. In order to become that type of parent, you have to figure out what path you can live with and start rebuilding ....but either path is still going to be painful. There is no easy answers here. All paths have pain. You just have to figure out what you want out of your life, then pursue the path that leads you in that direction.

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 9:09 AM, January 16th (Saturday)]

Spock, I often think of this parable when I think of people who live their lives in a way that meets the expectations of internal and external forces, as you made mention of.

http://thefloatinglibrary.com/2008/07/30/everything-and-nothing-edit/

We all do this. You are obviously doing it. I do it, even when I am aware of it. I was a CO in the military, and the person I was being in that job was subtly different from the person I was at home, or with my skiing buddies. Being aware of it now, I see it everywhere.

Your wife is doing it too, by the way, in ways that she may or may not be aware of. She absolutely did it during the affair.

Since you say you will not leave and are pursuing acceptance of your lot, understand that you are unwillingly dumped into a laboratory of human nature, where all this subsurface has gotten laid bare by the affair for you to see, both about her and about YOU. It is an opportunity in the same way that VADM Stockdale found being a POW an opportunity on his path in life. You can learn things about yourself that you could never learn otherwise. You can find strength here. Food for thought.

http://www.usna.edu/Ethics/_files/documents/stoicism1.pdf

http://www.usna.edu/Ethics/_files/documents/Stoicism2.pdf

[This message edited by HouseOfPlane at 9:06 AM, January 16th (Saturday)]

I was thinking of what I wanted to say and NaiveAgain said it much better than I could and was pretty much exactly what I was thinking.

The only other thing I would like to add is a bit of what I saw growing up with my dad "staying together for the kids". While your fWW is nothing like my mother (my mother is a narcissist and continued to cheat), there are some elements to what you have written MrSpock to what I witnessed.

My father was never the same after our dday. Never. I was the one that found out about the A and had to tell him about it. I watched the life drain out of him that day. The look that was on his face has had a profound impact on me. One of the reasons I came to SI seeking answers, is not just the look from that dday, but all the other looks that I caught when he thought no one was looking. He used to be a happy go lucky guy. He used to whistle as he did things. I don't remember ever hearing him whistle again. The 1,000 yard stare he would get sometimes when no one was looking. Looks of disgust after having sex (lots of HB going on in the house). Him buying my mother expensive gifts to keep her happy on bdays and xmas time. Flowers. Whatever. But you know what? Through all of it I don't ever remember him smiling. Through any of it. On the day that he left us 6 years later he said that he was "staying together until my brother and I graduated high school". He never made it that far because my brother ended up committing suicide. Not that those issues exists in your house but what is my point here?

Your kids, or whomever else is in your house can sense what is going on with you. You may be able to fool your fWW but deep down she can sense what is going on with you even if she doesn't fully realize or want to realize. Things have never been the same. Your kids see it too. As I did. I certainly didn't understand it then, but now that I'm older I understand it now.

My point is that if you don't also take care of yourself emotionally to be truly happy and healthy, that also has an impact on everyone else around you.

yop