SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Spock,

I fully understand where you are coming from.

Let me ask you this, and BTW I admire your commitment to your WW and her needs even at the expense of your own mentality, but here's my question;

Where do you see this ending up ?

Is this in your current opinion going to end up in a divorce, reconciliation or limbo ?

I know there is a degree of reconciliation in what you have now.

There is also a degree of limbo.

Neither I nor any of the posters here know the magnitude of the affair. It sounds like may have been a ONS but was it more ?

Is there anything she can dot hat she hasn't done to make you recover better ?

How will you and the kids be treated in divorce ? Did you see an attorney yet ?

Let us know

Hi Western,

I wanted to post my replies in the same order of the original posters but let me first reply to yours. I have to give you a compliment. You have a sharp intellect. You can really read between the lines.

Where do you see this ending up?

Is this in your current opinion going to end up in a divorce, reconciliation or limbo?

If I was in the position to answer this question I wouldn’t have posted on this wonderful site seeking the advice of the amazing people here. Being able to answer your question would be like winning the lottery. It is like finding the answer to the million dollar question. Right now I'm still here with no other plans.

Neither I nor any of the posters here know the magnitude of the affair. It sounds like may have been an ONS but was it more?

This is why I said you can read between the lines. I left this information for a reason. After 3 years, what good would it do to me dwelling on the circumstances of the discovery? Besides, it's still very painful. Basically, your assumption is correct. Yet, it was both. It was a drunken one night stand but there was also more to it. She confessed it but in hindsight I understood that I witnessed the scene of the ONS (I had to bring her home from there due to her intoxication - long story). Post factum, I understood that I witnessed that everything very vividly. I didn't catch her red handed but the effect was similar. Now, you can understand the image I mentioned above. The one of her being drunk and giving herself like a cheap whore to another man that screwed her in some dirty place. I still don’t know what was more shocking. Her being completely wasted; her having a one night stand or both of them together! To see her intoxicated (and later knowing it was a one night stand) was completely surrealistic. She very rarely touched alcohol and never cheated. Again, it was surreal.

Is there anything she can do that she hasn't done to make you recover better?

This is also a million dollar question to win the lottery. Honestly, I don't know. She has done so much I don't think she can do more. She is always sensitive and attentive to me. Always asks what I need or what she can do. I just don't know if there is anything more. I don't think so.

How will you and the kids be treated in divorce? Did you see an attorney yet?

You know what pisses me off with the divorce. To no end! It is that I have to give her half of everything I have. If it was my fault I would take responsibility and give her more. She cheated on me, why do I have to reward her with that behavior by giving her half of everything I have. It's unfair; it's injustice. And she has the law on her side to enforce that injustice. She didn't do anything to deserve that. Nothing! I didn't see a lawyer because I'm not ready to give her that.

[This message edited by MrSpock at 5:10 PM, January 16th (Saturday)]

I've been reading your thread and noticed some changes in your thinking at the end. While I dont think divorce is always an answer, I was glad to read that you were less foggy.

At first, you sounded much like I used to be. Ever caring about other people and letting your own needs slide if it helped others "be happy". But one thing divorce (I didn't want) has shown me is the hollowness of that existence, especially because none of those people (parents, kids, inlaws, the ole pervert...none of them even really actually saw me or that I was crumpling to pieces inside withall the weight on my shoulders.

Although divorce had come before me, like to my parents, I could not fathom it at first, though the ole pervert was much more active in it than your wife...that you are aware of so far.

I give you much credit for trying to stand by your wife and will say that she is very lucky for that for many reasons. Loyalty is rare.

But you yourself have a life to live of your own. What do you want it to be? How do you want your kids to see you?

I just worry about your strength and emotional strength and hope you will sort things out. It seems like an outlet would be good like exercise, instead of bottling up the energy that negative emotions bring.

And if the bedroom stuff is causing misery for you, maybe theres a way to ask for space from that because it seems like it wont help you heal to keep doing things your heart isnt in. That grows resentment more, imo.

I understand what you mean about her getting half of everything. I have to split income with another woman and her kid and mine get less. And right now you have control over that part of things, where divorce would bring control to court. Thats hard to think about.

For me, it was not being able to trust anymore and after I knew the truth, he began to seem physically dirty.

Sorry for the long message. Please know that its ok to have your own needs and its ok to figure out how to make your needs important too.

ok. Thanks Spock.

It is a state of limbo.

The courts are unfair. I think the worst injustice is the "no fault marriage'. It gives people a freebie 'get out of jail card'. It's wrong. I get the concept of 'what you put in you get out of' stuff. But that's not what these states do. Cheating is a breaking of marital contract and should have some impact in the proceedings but because of these laws, it doesn't. It's sad

First, let's help your healing and then you can decide what's best for you.

1) Is the cheating over and how do you know ? Once you get out of infidelity, you have room to breathe and think clearly.

2) If there's nothing she can do to make this up, the end result is clear. However, have you seeked legal advisement ?

3) Thanks for your compliment. I know personally what you are going through. I want to make sure that you are going to get out of this thing either with her or without her but with yourself intact.

I will tell you the type of person I am and I differ from many on this board. The extent of the affair always matters. A one night stand is bad, very bad. It's not as bad as a one year affair and 20 times is worse than once, though once is one time too many. How you were treated, the lies and whether it was emotional are extra factors but not as important as the first factor of course which is why she stepped out in the first place ?

Do yourself this

Write your self a balance sheet . The benefits of staying versus the benefits of ending it. Then if the benefit is to stay, write a list of things you can do (and make her do) to ensure that you can heal. If the benefits are to leave, lawyer up, make sure you know what you want out of this marriage and make sure your representative (lawyer) is willing to accomplish that.

Then move forward in either case.

1) Get out of limbo

2) Make sure there are consequences for her

3) Ease your pain and make sure you have proper devices for healing

4) If she cut out the booze, and it doesn't sound like the booze is a recurring issue, would she do this again ?

5) Who is the piece of shit who took advantage of the situation ? is he still around ? What has she done to rid your lives of him ?

6) if you can't get over that ONS+, than are you willing to divorce despite the financial loss ?

Infidelity sucks. It is the worst thing anyone can do to someone especially someone they love. In the end, it is a shit card. The question remains is dumping her, despite everything she has done since, worth the cost of what you will lose PLUS what is the likelihood of her doing it again ?

I forgave my first wife for 11 month and she did it again and I was done. period. I regret the reconciliation period. Some here have succeeded.

I am all about your healing and you have done an excellent job holding the status quo despite the shitty hand you have been dealt. Now you put yourself in the position to control things. Kudos to you.

What are your thoughts form here ?

[This message edited by Western at 4:36 PM, January 16th (Saturday)]

NaiveAgain

I'm reading your answers so far, and it seems you have a bit of a "martyr" type mentality. You are willing to sacrifice yourself and your happiness for the good of everyone else. That is great for a soldier. Not so good for a relationship, because it breeds resentment....in BOTH partners.

I think the main question here is: what do you really want?

Do you want to continue to live with your walls up, pleasing everyone but yourself. Building bitterness and resentment? Remember the grumpy old man in Dennis the Menace? That is what a long life of bitterness and resentment builds.

I do not consider myself a "martyr". Besides, I think what you say is correct. I can see how under certain circumstances sacrifice can build up resentment in myself; I can't understand how my sacrifice and service can breed resentment in someone else

Do you want a good, loving, intimate relationship with someone? It is possible, even after betrayal, but it is a LOT of work. Even if you never have infidelity in your life, building something like that is a lot of work. It involves baring our souls to someone else, and that takes a lot of courage. Much more courage than walling off and not ever allowing someone in because of the possibility we may get hurt.

I agree again with the basics. However, baring our souls to someone who managed to betray is not wise. If you have a proven and convicted thief would you give up all of your defense mechanisms? I don't see it that way. We always take risks, but why taking this risk with someone who betrayed you so much. Why also talking a risk without protection!? Even if you are the best client in your bank, once you take a loan the bank asks for guaranties. If your credit rating is not good the guaranties will be even more uncompromising.

Why? Because if she thinks everything is just peachy and that you are handling this okay, then she will never be able to truly give you what you need....because you aren't letting her know exactly what you need. If you think you are punishing her by never letting her get close....please remember....you are also taking away your chance at real love and intimacy.

I never mentioned that this is punishment. It is self protection. I also explained to Merida why I don’t think there will ever be true or authentic love between us and anyway me protecting myself doesn’t take the chance at true intimacy. The cheating has indeed done it. Maybe it's possible to rebuild love but I'm not sure about the exact nature of that love. And anyway, if rebuilding a new love, then why not with someone new where it can be authentic again? Those are the questions that I'm struggling with and find no answer to them.

And yes, she could possibly take advantage. If she does, that will show you her true nature, and why would you stay with someone that does not truly care about you and your feelings and emotions?

But this is exactly what I'm saying and that makes no logic. She already took advantage of me; she already showed me what she's capable. So, why should I really stay with someone that does not truly care for me? Do I need to wait for a second time? I don't think she will do this. In fact, I'm sure she won't. My problem is that even this knowledge doesn't make me feel better. I tried to explain it in my thread.

Also, you have to realize that you are strong enough to handle it if you get wounded again. We have to learn to trust ourselves again.

Being strong does not say I should expose myself to harm again. I want to find a path where I can protect myself in the midst of this hell.

I'm answering this from my POV. I've done both as I said in my first post. With my original WS, I cut and run. It was scary and a bit painful, but far far easier to move on from because I didn't really have to look at my own self and figure out how to commit and work through intense pain. I just moved on.

I'm with my new SO of 3 years now. We are doing the hard work of reconciling. For me it is much more difficult because it means I can't run from myself and the relationship if I want something real and authentic. It takes more courage to open up and allow myself the possibility of being wounded again. It's scary as hell. Sometimes I have periods where I feel I can't trust anyone in this world. Collateral damage sucks. But I know what I want. This is my one and only life. I want to know true connection. I want a life partner that knows me inside out, and I want to know him. I want someone that will have my back no matter what happens. This is what we are rebuilding from the wreckage. For me, it is worth it. I'm scared, but I am doing it anyway. That is what true courage is.

It is interesting to learn from other's people experience. Here is mine. I can't give you specific details on what I did and where I served but let me reassure you that I know what it means to work through intense pain. Some of my best friends are buried today. And you know what? It taught me also how to commit. In my case not through betrayal but through trust, loyalty and integrity! My best friendships, the ones that will never abandon me, are from the military. We went through too much things together. They were to support me even more than my parents in this specific case. The only reason I didn't divorce and have betrayed my integrity (something I never did in the military even in the midst of most difficult situations and in the most difficult times) is because for me it was easier to stay – in some way. It was for the convenience and at the expense of my own integrity. Of, course at the end it's not what it seemed to be. From your experience of course it looks differently and it is true no matter what path we take. I asked why because from my experience the statement was untrue. Both paths are admirable if done with honesty and integrity. In my case it's not what I have done and therefore as Merida said I couldn't forgive the way I betrayed myself. I'm not sure I'm so admirable anymore in that sense. In fact, I hate what I've become in the wake of her affair. I was never like that in the military. It's killing me.

My personal feelings which may be way off base here. You are unhappy enough that you seeked out this site and posted here. Obviously you are in deep pain and NOT happy with your life.You are trying to figure out which path will bring the least pain for you and others…..There is no easy answers here. All paths have pain. You just have to figure out what you want out of your life, then pursue the path that leads you in that direction.

Yes, I agree with that. It is true

Yearsofpain25

Thank you for taking your time for helping me. Your point of view is very unique. I must admit I have never heard about infidelity from the point of view of a child who went through this. However, in my case I don't think it's the same. I did nothing to try to nice my wife back into the relationship. If she wants to divorce, she can do this. I will not try to convince her to stay. I will never do this. Everything I do now, I have done before. There is nothing special I do. Of course, prior to the infidelity it was natural. Now among others it is to meet expectations. It is also to make her happy after her enormous effort to correct her ways as well as the consequences she suffered through her reckless behavior. Yes, I try to fake everything else too - including the smiles. I don't want anyone to suffer through this. What you say about you noticing your father's distress when he taught no one sees him worries me now a lot. Thanks, for making me aware of this. I'm also so sorry for your brother.

[This message edited by MrSpock at 12:05 AM, January 17th (Sunday)]

read most of the thread brother not much to add, only that at the end of the day you and only you have to live with your choice and look in that mirror. It is obvious that you going against your belief system and boundaries is a huge problem and I agree because I could not do what you are or have tried to do. There is no right or wrong choice here , stay , go , or live a lie. All are options that only you have to live with. So think about how one night of enjoyment (maybe maybe not) for your wife has led to 3 years of constant pain for you , now add a zero to that 3 and think of the resentment at the end. The choice is yours of course but my opinion is to leave her, fix you first whatever way you need to , then you can make a decision and if she is still there then ,great. Strength brother

Hi Western

What are your thoughts form here?

I must admit right now, I won't have answers for everything you've asked. Let's try.

I will tell you the type of person I am and I differ from many on this board. The extent of the affair always matters. A one night stand is bad, very bad. It's not as bad as a one year affair and 20 times is worse than once, though once is one time too many. How you were treated, the lies and whether it was emotional are extra factors but not as important as the first factor of course which is why she stepped out in the first place

I'm not sure, but I can see the logic. I was pointing more to the way how I discovered this. In my case it was more difficult. This was also surreal. She was completely wasted. She could even not recall everything from that night. Only pieces of what happened! It made it even more difficult to verify the truth with the polygraph. The test was more about her past behavior and if she slept with more men behind my back. We also agreed to take a second polygraph down the road. It was mine decision when she would take it. It was to verify that she does not do any stupid things again. Normally, one test would be enough. Yet, due to the circumstances we did it twice. She passed both of them.

Do yourself this

Write your self a balance sheet . The benefits of staying versus the benefits of ending it. Then if the benefit is to stay, write a list of things you can do (and make her do) to ensure that you can heal. If the benefits are to leave, lawyer up, make sure you know what you want out of this marriage and make sure your representative (lawyer) is willing to accomplish that.

I know this technique but here are some of my problems:

a)It is not only about the quantity but also the quality. Some of the things weigh more than the others. One deal breaker can outweigh many smaller problems

b)I knew it was a deal breaker. Yet, for many reasons I couldn't (and more honest answer is I didn’t want to) go through this. Some I mentioned already. Yet, there are more

c)Her reaction to what happened was extreme. Extreme guilt that I've never seen! She never acted on this but had suicidal thoughts. She was twice hospitalized for medical observation in the first year. Now, she's doing well. On the one side, I think it has to do a lot with my resentment. I had to be there for her instead of her being there for me (at the beginning). I practically, nursed her back to health. Then, as I said she was awesome. OTOH, I'll admit I'm afraid of this. I don't want to see her hurt herself. I don't want to live with that guilt. Yet, maybe it's another source for my resentment. It's not her fault, yet maybe due to the circumstances, she will never be able to really be there for me. I'm not sure. It's an assumption. However, I'm even not sure this will help me so why asking and hurt. What I was thinking when reflecting about the posts here and especially yours if this is maybe the one thing she can do for me. I'm not sure.

d)Another reason why I don’t divorce was mentioned above. It has to do with my unwillingness to suffer the financial losses for it. It's unfair! And it's unjust! Yet, it's also not only money. Now, I have some sort of control over my life. Even in this shitty situation. Once, we go to the court, I lose all of control. While she will have control over everything due to the law and enforcement that is on her side, I will be completely under the control of the courts. Finances, children, my life, everything! I don't want to go through this humiliation. It sucks to be a man. This legal situation is not her fault. Yet, it is her fault bringing me into this situation.

Make sure there are consequences for her

Maybe, I'm wrong and I'm open to hear different opinions. Yet, besides divorce which consequences could be there for her. I mean even in the divorce, it's only the personal consequences. Otherwise, she has no consequences. Again, maybe I'm wrong and I am open to hear about other opinions. Especially, which consequences could be there for her if we stay together!

Ease your pain and make sure you have proper devices for healing

This is easy said than done. I am open to ideas on what I can do.

If she cut out the booze, and it doesn't sound like the booze is a recurring issue, would she do this again?

I don't think she would do this again. However, she did it and time is irreversible.

Who is the piece of shit who took advantage of the situation? is he still around ? What has she done to rid your lives of him?

Another totally surreal thing! The only thing she remembers is his first name. A complete stranger! I mean just thinking about the danger she exposed herself. As I said surreal! She was with her girlfriends. He was a friend of one of her (female) friends. From there things got complicated. She got drunk. Never done this before! Ended up having the one night stand! After he fucked her he left her completely drunk. He just used her like a whore. I mean she's responsible for her action, yet if that piece of shit would fall into my hands, I would have most probably cut his head off. She never saw him again and he didn't contact her. She also had no intent or desire to do this. She went NC with all the girlfriends that were involved in this. Cut them completely out of her life. One was a co-worker of hers. She changed even the job so that she doesn't have to be around her anymore.

If you can't get over that ONS+, than are you willing to divorce despite the financial loss?

Right now I have a big problem with this. I don't think I can really make peace in my mind with the ONS and other things. The question is if I have and if there is another way or possibility to live with this. Besides, it's not only the financial loss. It's the loss of almost any sense of control. It's humiliating for me that the courts will decide now how, when, how much and where I can see my kids. In the military, the life of human beings were dependent on my decision. I was in charge and control of things. I can't even put in words the extent of humilation if I'll now be completely dependent on the courts, have no say in anything and especially in my kid's life and ultimately exposed to the mercy of the courts

The question remains is dumping her, despite everything she has done since, worth the cost of what you will lose PLUS what is the likelihood of her doing it again?

Well, until now I didn't want to dump her for the reasons I described to you. I'm still here and have no plan to leave. However, reading the many posters here I think that I have at least to consider the other option. I also think that if I'll leave, I'll have to be fair enough to give her some last chance to fix the things after telling her the truth.

I am all about your healing and you have done an excellent job holding the status quo despite the shitty hand you have been dealt. Now you put yourself in the position to control things. Kudos to you.

Thanks, western!

MrSpock

[This message edited by MrSpock at 5:40 AM, January 17th (Sunday)]

HouseOfPlane

Special thanks for the last two links. I thought it was against the guidelines to post links so I suppose you got the approval of the mods. So, my special thanks go to the admins too. While I do not completely agree with the stoic thinking as a whole, there are striking similarities between my worldview and this set of mind. Where I depart from the stoic thinking is as to my secular belief systems, rejecting the religious notion as well as the deterministic worldview. So, my response to the problem stoicism points out maybe different but basically my worldview is strikingly similar to that of stoicism. Being a soldier is not only a function to be performed in the military, it is a way of life. This western concept is very similar to the eastern concepts of martial arts. You're not only a master of the specific discipline but it is a way of life like in stoicism. In some traditions this aspect is called "the spiritual warrior". There are a lot of misperceptions and prejudices about stoicism. The most famous one is as if it is to suppress or bottling emotions as well as never speaking about them. This is not what stoicism teaches. Anyway, this site is most probably not the place to discuss stoic philosophy and ethics! Anyway, thanks again. It is really food for thought - NO MATTER WHICH PATH YOU DECIDE TO TAKE. And the analogy of POW is excellent. If you stay it's like being a POW; if you leave, it's like being injured and suffering from war disability. Which decision you take depends on you and if you suffer or not do not depend on the circumstances, external or internal, but how you react to them. Wonderful.

[This message edited by MrSpock at 4:08 AM, January 17th (Sunday)]

To all, posting links is not against the Guidelines. Not checking with Staff first is.

Thank you

I think after exchanging thanks and expressing gratitude, now I owe an apology

[This message edited by MrSpock at 6:10 AM, January 17th (Sunday)]

Just giving you more to think about so you can have as many points of view as possible while making up your mind....

I can't understand how my sacrifice and service can breed resentment in someone else

When someone lives with someone they consider "near perfect" because that other person is always giving and taking care of others, it can breed a bit of resentment in the other party for having to try to live up to the perfection that they feel the other person deserves.

However, baring our souls to someone who managed to betray is not wise. If you have a proven and convicted thief would you give up all of your defense mechanisms? I don't see it that way. We always take risks, but why taking this risk with someone who betrayed you so much. Why also talking a risk without protection!?

In other words, once a thief, always a thief? There are some people that say that given the correct circumstances, anyone could become a thief. (Would you steal a loaf of bread to feed your young children if there were no other options available at the moment? If your loved one needed medication in order to live, but the medication was way more expensive than what you could ever afford, would you look at other, illegal means in order to get that medicine to save a life?) I know these are philosophical questions, but for me, life is not always black and white.

Obviously, your wife's life was not in danger. But there are reasons that she went against what you feel is her normal behavior.

I also explained to Merida why I don’t think there will ever be true or authentic love between us and anyway me protecting myself doesn’t take the chance at true intimacy. The cheating has indeed done it. Maybe it's possible to rebuild love but I'm not sure about the exact nature of that love. And anyway, if rebuilding a new love, then why not with someone new where it can be authentic again? Those are the questions that I'm struggling with and find no answer to them.

Ok...I'm going to take a stab at explaining this...if I don't make sense, please just ask.

The cheating did indeed blow up your marriage and hurt you and the marriage very deeply. Maybe irreparably. For some, that is true. For others, they do find a way to reconcile. However, as another poster said....you are NOT in reconciliation. Reconciliation takes two, and although you are putting in the effort, your heart and emotions are absent. So you are not reconciling. If you know, deep in your heart that you can never get past this, then you owe it to yourself and her to leave so you can both find someone new to start over with. Finances may be a consideration, but is staying for the money worth the heart-ache of living with something you just can't get past? For me it wasn't. I was quite comfortably middle-class. Now I am single and for a while had 4 small children to raise on my own. We ended up on food stamps. I was the one with all the money, he had none, but now he has half of mine. Oh well. I would rather be poor than stay with someone I didn't love. I can always rebuild financially. I can NOT rebuild trust with someone who is not safe, as you said before. That was WS #1.

Now on to WS #2. I feel much safer with him, even though he betrayed me a bit earlier. I feel safer with him than I would with someone else, even if that someone else says they would never cheat. Because I am of the mindset at this point that anyone could possibly cheat given the right circumstances. The reason I feel safe with him at this point, and it has been 3 years so it took a long time, is because he has done the hard work of baring his soul and looking within. He made a mistake but I don't think he will ever do that again (which is what you say about your wife). The remorse and guilt she feels may make you feel safer, but what is really important is getting to the core. Why did she do this in the first place? Have you had all your questions answered? "I got drunk and made a mistake" is not an answer. You have to ask at least 3 why's to get to the core of any emotional questions.

"Why did you cheat?" I got drunk and made a mistake?

"What made you get drunk?" Everyone else at the party was drinking

"So if everyone else is doing it, you feel you have to do it also. Why?"

And so on and so on....until you get at the core. My SO did not get at his core for quite a while. He had to take therapy (which helped a bit but wasn't all the answers) and we read that book I referred to, which opened up a whole new can of worms for him, he posted on here in wayward for a while to get REAL answers on his mindset and his thinking, because the waywards here BTDT and don't play games and can see through lies we tell ourselves and our defenses, and then we talked and talked and talked until he could figure out that growing up in an alcoholic household made him susceptible to needing ego stroking from others. That is his core. So in order to fix the problem, he had to figure out how to not be susceptible to ego stroking anymore.

Even though when I caught him he swore he didn't want to lose me and it would never happen again, I didn't feel completely safe until he did the hard work of baring HIS soul and figuring out what was broken in him. And then he had to fix it. It took a long time.

So, now I feel I have a safer partner than before this had happened. I had to do counseling on myself also, to get past the PTSD aspects of betrayal, and that also takes time. And I do still trigger from time to time. But he deals with my triggers in a way that works for me.

So, if you stay, in order to feel safe, those are some of the things that you would need to have answered.

But, from some of your other posts, especially the one where she got suicidal....I wonder....is part of you staying because you have a knight in shining armor complex and you feel you need to save her? That is a whole other issue, and staying with someone just to protect them from themselves is not a good reason to stay. You aren't responsible for her mental health. She is. She is responsible for getting the help she needs in order to keep herself safe.

I think, with the military background, that you are showing the military mindset as far as honor and duty towards your family. (I have a lot of military in my family, so I get it.) My dad has that honor and duty mindset. I know he stayed and my mom also stayed through times when they absolutely hated each other. Somehow, they worked through it though and now, at 54 years married, they have one of the deepest loves I've ever seen. But they went through the trials. But the fact that you are posting here says that you are unhappy enough to be to a breaking point. You need more than what you are getting right now.

This makes me feel that you are needing something deeper, and you are also looking for a way to heal.

There are different paths to healing, but being authentic to yourself is usually crucial to any path that you take.

I'm so sorry for your pain, and it IS admirable that you are trying to take care of your family as best as you can given the circumstances. Infidelity/betrayal is one of the worst things a person can go through but there is healing and happiness on the other side. It's just a long and tedious and painful journey.

I understand you feel like you are stuck.

Let me ask you this. Have you started a journal ?

Sometimes, writing things and thoughts down help in the process of healing as well as allows you to collect your thoughts, make sense of them and track your progress.

Im starting to think the images won't ever go away---- it's horrible I agree. I do go to counseling by myself to figure out like you why it bothers me so much. I hVe made progress and a lot has to do with for me I wS cheated on before and vowed I would never tolerate it again but here I am still with a man who hurt me more than my exfiance 20 years ago. That feeling that I let myself down really impacts me giving my marriage another chance. I'm working on it but it's draining. It sounds like your wife is really trying, my husband is but still gets very defensive and guarded and has not ever apologized for the affair just that he hurt me. It's suppose to be done and over with so I keep it inside too with him that's why having my counselor to talk to really helps me. It may help you to have an outlet as well since it seems u too to make things run smoothly have to pretend the hurt is gone. I just signed up here because I think it will help me to know that I'm not the only one going through this so maybe I'll stop beating myself up hopefully it helps you too. I also do a lot of reading on the subject which has helped me understand my husband as well. Dday was Sept 2014 and some days it seems like yesterday.

However, baring our souls to someone who managed to betray is not wise.

Why do you say this? What are the possible adverse outcomes to doing so?

First, stop the sex. You express hate for having to satisfy her due to some rule included in your marriage vows. Just stop. The resentment growing in you is not healthy to either of you and continuing to take part in such a spiteful experience is scary to me. This is no longer honor or duty but bordering on the edge of self harm or self flagellation. You do it and then hate yourself and her. Take a sexual sabbatical to work on your internal struggle. You do not owe her "servicing". Marital sex is not a command performance. It is a gift we give each other, freely, not with malice.

Next, in your description of her drunken night and her inability to remember things, have you considered that she was drugged? You said she was not a drinker. Neither am I. I would be puking long before I got to blank memory pass out drunk.

If I understand your facts, your wife had a single ONS, was so incredibly drunk when she did so that she was not functional, did not hide the ONS, confesssed, passed a polygraph proving no other infidelities, and has been consistently remorseful.

All cheating is wrong, and all cheating can be considered appropriate grounds for divorce.

But your wife's situation is certainly among the least "evil" fact patterns I have seen here. It sounds like she got really drunk and made a really bad decision.

In my state, the man could have been charged with rape for having non consensual sex due to her extreme state of drunkeness, even if they were "friends". Have you considered this? A drunk or drugged person cannot give consent for sex.

I won't judge how "wrong" or "bad" her infidelity was. Some people can accept and forgive serial cheating, prostitutes, a love affair that lasts many years, etc.

She already took advantage of me; she already showed me what she's capable. So, why should I really stay with someone that does not truly care for me? Do I need to wait for a second time? I don't think she will do this. In fact, I'm sure she won't. My problem is that even this knowledge doesn't make me feel better.

If you really believe she doesn't care about you, then I don't think you should stay with her. But I will point out that her bad choices that night reveal that at least in that moment, she did not care about HERSELF. I do not believe that they mean she doesn't care about YOU.

My WH spent 5 months "having feelings for" someone else. Yet I remember during that time I was often cold at night and would snuggle up to him, and he would always mutter in his sleep, "Swmnbc, I love you so much." Despite his terrible choices and conflicted feelings, I don't believe that he ever stopped caring about me. And he chose, moment after moment, month after month, to have a secret girlfriend. Your wife didn't make that choice over and over again. She chose to drink so much that she was no longer in control of her faculties, and that is wrong and alarming, but it doesn't seem to me that she chose to care about someone else or stop caring about you.

My primary mode of dealing with day to day life is through reason; I'm a "thinker" and an INTJ. So I get you on that. But I also find that whenever my life has careened off the tracks, my first instinct is to energetically concentrate on my emotions. I use my reason to help me do the emotional work that I know is necessary to grow and heal.

All people fail us. And we fail those we love too. I have never cheated and I doubt I ever will, but I have failed my husband in other ways. His cheating is symptomatic of character weaknesses that he needs to address for our marriage to heal and grow. His choices were wrong and pathetic and I have every reason to be angry, and no one would blame me for leaving, but in the grand scheme of human history, it's a familiar story.

Some mistakes are too big to forgive . . . what is your spouse was negligent leading to death of one of your children? What if your spouse gambled away your entire life savings? What is your spouse was sexually abusing children? I'm not saying that we should always forgive and move on with our spouses, but what strikes me about your situation is the untenable limbo you are in. You are staying but not forgiving. That's the worst of all scenarios, in my opinion, and not just for the rest of your family, but for you most of all.

Of course my husband could cheat again. Surely he will hurt and disappoint me again. But so could anyone else I replace him with. We stoics simply need to assess the risks. Is it likely our spouse will make the same mistake again, or a similarly devastating mistake? You already say your wife is highly unlikely to do this again. There are a million reasons why you will never consider leaving her. So why not consider loving, forgiving, and being vulnerable with her?

if she was drunk, how could she agree to sex? are you sure this was a ONS?