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Caught her in a lie, might be done

Topic is Sleeping.
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 InkHulk (original poster member #80400) posted at 11:48 PM on Wednesday, May 17th, 2023

Complete written timeline of the affair. Written response to all your questions. Polygraph to confirm completeness and accuracy. That would be bare minimum to talk about anything other than how to split assets and custody.

That all just feels so radically inadequate at this point.

Thanks for weighing in even with your caveats. Means a lot to me.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 1897   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8791321
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JasonCh ( member #80102) posted at 12:19 AM on Thursday, May 18th, 2023

Butforthegrace wrote:

So, yes, Mrs. Ink "went along" with this, but it's something no mother should ever go along with. And she did it because of her infatuation with a man who is objectively a bad man, something she failed (or refused) to acknowledge.

In my opinion this is way too generous of a position to take. The POSOM / AP did not randomly guess InhkHulk's daughters contact information. In general it the stance is that an affair is never the OP it is in fact all at the feet of the WS. How was Inkhulk's wife not in control when giving the AP the contact information and saying yeah i think that would be a great idea. There is nothing for her to 'go along' with -- she was running the show. It is like saying the affair was totally POSOM idea -- WW was just going along. That doesn't wash -- why should it wash when the ante is upped and now kids are involved?

posts: 463   ·   registered: Mar. 18th, 2022
id 8791322
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 InkHulk (original poster member #80400) posted at 12:22 AM on Thursday, May 18th, 2023

It’s possible that my daughter took the number from my wife’s phone. Or maybe she sent her own number to POSOM from my wife’s phone. Or maybe POSOM sent her his on my wife’s phone. I somehow still have enough regard for my wife that she didn’t send her the contact, but I guess I could probably go back in n their messages and look for that.

I’m not sure, I’ll have to ask her (my daughter). I have quite a bit to talk with her about.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 12:54 AM, Thursday, May 18th]

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 1897   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8791323
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survrus ( member #67698) posted at 2:44 AM on Thursday, May 18th, 2023

IH,

The one good thing which came out of this is that your daughter got to relieve herself of this secret that she likely didn't know what to do with.

Kids keep silent at a great cost to themselves sometimes, they often know more than they let on.

posts: 1474   ·   registered: Nov. 1st, 2018   ·   location: USA
id 8791336
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 9:31 AM on Thursday, May 18th, 2023

How is your daughter holding up? How confident are you about getting the full story from your daughter at this point?

My concern for her is that she might be blaming herself for the the fallout from the latest revelation, see herself as responsible for whether or not you stay married, and feel compelled to protect your WW.

BW, 40s

Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 1944   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8791356
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 InkHulk (original poster member #80400) posted at 12:28 PM on Thursday, May 18th, 2023

How is your daughter holding up? How confident are you about getting the full story from your daughter at this point?

We haven’t told our kids yet that we are going to separate, so my daughter doesn’t have anything acute to be worried about. She had a school event last night and I met up with my brother to tell him what is happening so I haven’t talked more with my daughter. (What does the DD acronym stand for?).

My concern for her is that she might be blaming herself for the the fallout from the latest revelation, see herself as responsible for whether or not you stay married, and feel compelled to protect your WW.

When I talked to my daughter in the car the other day on the way to the doctor, I was honest with her that this was a big deal. I didn’t use the D word, so she probably doesn’t know the full extent of what is happening. I hear you on this concern. Children blame themselves for their parents split ups in general, and my daughter will know how tightly related this event is to the separation. Add that to the therapy docket.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 1897   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8791369
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 InkHulk (original poster member #80400) posted at 12:35 PM on Thursday, May 18th, 2023

The one good thing which came out of this is that your daughter got to relieve herself of this secret that she likely didn't know what to do with.

Possibly. My daughter seemed surprised at my strong reaction when she told me, said she thought I knew. I’m holding on to hope that the grooming was just creepy AF but wasn’t enough to harm her, but need to talk more with her and get therapy back up and going, with this as a key topic. My daughter hasn’t really embraced IC. We had her in it for quite a while because of her SA, but she didn’t seem to want to delve into that. She was more upset about teenage concerns, like why we put so many restrictions on her phone. The irony of that in light of this is so off the charts, I can’t even before coffee this morning.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 1897   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8791370
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 1:51 PM on Thursday, May 18th, 2023

DD=Dear daughter

Your daughter has been in IC for SA?

I'm so very sorry.

That makes what your wife did so much worse. She read the messages..a grown man seeking her child's attention,and calling her pet names. Again,as a SA survivor,a mother,and a woman, she knew what he was saying was at the very least, highly inappropriate. And she did not talk to her about it. She didn't tell you,or the IC. Even if your child didn't realize what he was doing..her mother did. This,even if she didn't understand what was happening, at least adds to her confusion and trauma.

And,while she may not understand what he had been doing now, as she gets older, she will look back and see it for what it was. She will know her mother didn't help her. It will be very difficult for her.

When you speak to her about it, reiterate that you did not know,and had you known,you would have put an end to it immediately. That you would have protected her.

It's extremely important that she knows she has one parent who will do anything to keep her safe. I can't emphasize that enough.

What is your wife saying today?

[This message edited by HellFire at 1:53 PM, Thursday, May 18th]

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6680   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8791379
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Dennylast ( member #78522) posted at 2:14 PM on Thursday, May 18th, 2023

I’m curious as to how your wife is accepting this decision to split? It appears that since finding out about this latest lie from her, you are sure of your decision to D. How is her behavior now towards you and your daughter?

posts: 150   ·   registered: Mar. 17th, 2021
id 8791380
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 InkHulk (original poster member #80400) posted at 2:22 PM on Thursday, May 18th, 2023

Your daughter has been in IC for SA?

I'm so very sorry.

Yes, my daughter was previously abused by a teenager, family friend. I think I first disclosed that back in my Cheaters Handbook thread, but you were kind of busy throwing haymakers wink I know there are a lot of stories happening in real time, I don’t expect you all to remember everything.

That makes what your wife did so much worse. She read the messages..a grown man seeking her child's attention,and calling her pet names. Again,as a SA survivor,a mother,and a woman, she knew what he was saying was at the very least, highly inappropriate. And she did not talk to her about it. She didn't tell you,or the IC. Even if your child didn't realize what he was doing..her mother did. This,even if she didn't understand what was happening, at least adds to her confusion and trauma.

It does make it so much worse, to the point of I’m not sure which I’m more incredulous at, that she broke our marriage vows or this. WW talks a good game that she is highly protective of DD. DD had an instance a couple years back where her step grandfather had some behavior that was over familiar. My daughter told me about her discomfort and I talked with my wife about it. We made the decision to talk with my step dad about DD’s concerns and that that needed to stop and that we were going to do whatever needs to happen to keep DD feeling safe. To this day my mom and him don’t stay in our house anymore and we constantly ask DD if she wants to see him and in what capacity. My wife has many times lauded my reaction to this, being safe for my daughter to tell, believing her, and acting. The conversation with my step dad was deeply uncomfortable, but who gives a shit when it’s your baby. And in contrast my wife is bringing my daughter into POSOM’s dumbass hobby and serving her up to be groomed. I can’t believe this is real.

And,while she may not understand what he had been doing now, as she gets older, she will look back and see it for what it was. She will know her mother didn't help her. It will be very difficult for her.

I have spent more hours and more beers commiserating with my siblings about the fucked up nature of our childhood, and while we certainly bitch about the same things over and over, we also seem to keep peeling the onion. I’m sad that that will be my children’s experience as well.

When you speak to her about it, reiterate that you did not know,and had you known,you would have put an end to it immediately. That you would have protected her.

It's extremely important that she knows she has one parent who will do anything to keep her safe. I can't emphasize that enough.

Thanks, I hear that establishing safety is key and I will work to create and reinforce that she is safe with me.

What is your wife saying today?

We aren’t talking right now. I went out with my brother last night. She seems to be trying to be pleasant, she got me an unusual thing from the grocery store and said it made her think of me. So, maybe she is hoping a sling shot will slow down this tank, I don’t know.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 2:26 PM, Thursday, May 18th]

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 1897   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8791381
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 InkHulk (original poster member #80400) posted at 2:53 PM on Thursday, May 18th, 2023

You did tell many times before that you would end this relation if it didn't work out. But, I strongly believe you didn't mean it before. There were so many DDays and yet, you always gave her grace, many 'amnestys' and also forgiveness.

I have attempted to be as brutally honest in this as possible, both with you all and with myself. I understand that maybe you guys didn’t believe me. And I understand that I flayed open my terrors of divorce. But I just want to say for a second here that I believe both things were true: I wanted to offer her real grace and I was prepared to walk away. Because the grace was fake otherwise, just fear and weakness, and I don’t believe that about myself.

This created certain dynamics between you and your wife that really worked in her favor. But now, that dynamics changed. She should know now that her time is ticking.

I have many times acknowledged the possibility that grace can be abused and I was willing to take that risk. It was abused, and now there are consequences for that.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 11:38 PM, Thursday, May 18th]

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 1897   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8791388
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nekonamida ( member #42956) posted at 2:57 PM on Thursday, May 18th, 2023

She seems to be trying to be pleasant, she got me an unusual thing from the grocery store and said it made her think of me. So, maybe she is hoping a sling shot will slow down this tank, I don’t know.

TBH - this stuff drives me crazy. You just informed her that she possibly did lifelong damage to DD, has destroyed the marriage, and THIS is what she thinks to do? A grocery store "thinking of you" gift? REALLY??

How about an emergency IC session to explore what happened and why? How about working on her apology to DD? How about doing anything that involves showing some compassion and empathy to the people she just hurt? I'd be horrified if I was in her shoes to think that I did this! But no, she got you a grocery store gift. Where is the Herculean effort WOEz was mentioning?

I'm sorry to say the "I didn't know" excuse comes up a lot with parents of CSA survivors who were told. There's dozens of tv shows where former children confront the mother they told and point out every instance that they witnessed something happening or were told something had happened and yet the mothers still insist that they had no idea. She may believe she didn't know. She may be choosing to say she didn't know. Doesn't matter because if DD ever goes to her again, she won't know about that either. She has a major blind spot whether intentional or not and it will always put DD in danger if she doesn't work to acknowledge and fix it.

posts: 5232   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2014   ·   location: United States
id 8791390
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Lurkingsoul12 ( member #82382) posted at 3:05 PM on Thursday, May 18th, 2023

Fuck! Your daughter is also a victim of SA. Damn! I don't know why God has been this cruel with your family. Hope she is doing well now. Please, teach/train her in identifying creeps like POSOM. She obviously failed to recognize this creep's intentions because of her lack of experience, wisdom, and guidance. Your daughter ghosted POSOM only because her bf said so and not because she found POSOM dangerous. She failed to recognize what her Bf easily recognized.

So, take this opportunity to teach her how to recognize and avoid predators like him. She also needs to know that having such interactions with non family adults like him is risky and dangerous. She shouldn't repeat this again. She should always keep you informed if such interactions ever happen with any non family adult for any reason. She may perceive this as controlling. But, convince her that this is for her safety and that you will not intrude her privacy beyond this.

Did your wife after DDAY ever take the side of POSOM over any topic? Did she ever try to protect him? I ask this because if she had read those messages, then she must have realized POSOM was fishing for your daughter. If she had realized, then why would she defend POSOM or take his side after DDay? When I asked you in your other thread how your wife feels about her AP, you replied 'indifference'. In light of this new information, I ask how she can feel indifference but not hate towards her AP even after knowing he tried to harm her daughter? I don't think your wife ever gave too much thought to those messages he sent to your daughter or how this unstable maniac could have harmed her if her boyfriend had not intervened. I don't know how her mother instincts remained non functional all this time.

Is your wife as worried as you are wrt your daughter?

[This message edited by Lurkingsoul12 at 3:24 PM, Thursday, May 18th]

posts: 457   ·   registered: Nov. 12th, 2022
id 8791393
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Superesse ( member #60731) posted at 3:19 PM on Thursday, May 18th, 2023

What nekonamida described is a recognized pattern in the stories of many, many child sexual abuse victims and is what I was alluding to in my last post. As a psychology major, I learned a lot about this irrational dynamic, usually coupled with the narcissism of a parent who sees the child as an extension of their self, like my mother did with both me and my younger sister. It is hard for someone like that to see their child objectively. So much to unpack.

posts: 2050   ·   registered: Sep. 22nd, 2017   ·   location: Washington D C area
id 8791395
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 4:02 PM on Thursday, May 18th, 2023

Yes, some mothers choose to look the other way..or pretend it isn't happening..to their child,because they were victims of CSA. That does happen. It is not an excuse. They still know it's happening to their child if they see..or read it with their own eyes. Or, if their child tells them. They pretend,because it triggers them,and they would rather pretend it's not happening. My mother did that. And, then, you have other CSA survivors,who are very protective of their children,and would bite the predator in half if they attempted anything. That would be me.

As to the grocery gift..not at all a surprise. You've stayed this long. You've been extraordinarily patient and kind. I can bet you she believes if you didn't leave her after a nearly 4 year EA/PA, this will be a minor bump in the road. Yes, You've mentioned separation, but she doesn't believe it will happen.

Be aware that many ww's will try to use sex to lull their BH back into the status quo, when they feel they're losing control of their BH. It's extremely common. And sex does bond a couple. So,it would behoove you not to have sex with her.

Haymakers? Me? Surely not.

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6680   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8791400
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 InkHulk (original poster member #80400) posted at 5:18 PM on Thursday, May 18th, 2023

Did your wife after DDAY ever take the side of POSOM over any topic? Did she ever try to protect him? I ask this because if she had read those messages, then she must have realized POSOM was fishing for your daughter. If she had realized, then why would she defend POSOM or take his side after DDay? When I asked you in your other thread how your wife feels about her AP, you replied 'indifference'. In light of this new information, I ask how she can feel indifference but not hate towards her AP even after knowing he tried to harm her daughter?

I feel that she did defend him post d-day. I came up with some pretty damn good insults for POSOM over time (I know, you are all shocked) and one particular string she seemed to come back and say it was "over the line". And there is definitely not hatred toward him, I would sense that. She signed off to him just before confessing with one last "I love you".
Honestly guys, my eyes are opening in real time. This is generational, fully fucked up, all the way deep, write a text book trauma. My wife’s grandma did nothing while her daughters (WW’s mother included) were sexually abused by their father and brothers. WW’s mother victim blamed WW as a child when she brought up concerns. All of this entirely unknown to me until this year, and now my dear dear daughter is the continuation of it.
If you have the slightest shred of belief, pray for my daughter, my sons, me and my wife.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 1897   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8791410
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 InkHulk (original poster member #80400) posted at 6:23 PM on Thursday, May 18th, 2023

Maybe she thought that the man she was fucking behind her dad's back would be a father figure, role model, friendly uncle to her?? I don't think this helps her case remotely. That is profoundly shitty. That is many future therapy sessions levels of shitty.

I think this is real. From what my wife told me, POSOM apparently told my wife that he wanted to "help" my DD and give her all kinds of sage advice on how to navigate her complex life, cause you know I’m sure he’s quite the expert on teenage girls. How my wife could have allowed this is unimaginable. I have to believe it is at least partially rooted in her conflict avoidance, she didn’t want to say no to him, but good God she delivered up our daughter rather than face that discomfort. She will never make it thru R.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 6:59 PM, Thursday, May 18th]

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 1897   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8791419
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Superesse ( member #60731) posted at 6:33 PM on Thursday, May 18th, 2023

InkHulk, you are so right about it being generational, which sadly is another aspect common to CSA victimization. HOWEVER, you have started to do something to break that cycle! It is not irretrievably f'd up, since you see the pattern now and with a strong father like you and some good IC and support, it will be a very different ending.

Personally, just reading your story as it has unfolded has been more than a little triggery for me because of some late teen experience of my own, and how my parents' inability to talk about these kinds of things in a way I could accept, or even their inability to grasp the possibility that their daughter (me) might be a vulnerable "little" girl....GRRRR. I'll not dive much into that, but when a girl is perceived by her parents as being smarter than her years and thus "all grown up,"it's so easy for them to tell themselves that their daughter is on a higher plane of awareness about adults than she really is. (I'm speaking of my childhood experience at every stage). So from what I'm reading with your reaction to this, that kind of rugsweeping is not going to continue on. I pray for you to have positive outcomes with your DD even as you disentangle yourself and your family from this evil family ghost stuff.

posts: 2050   ·   registered: Sep. 22nd, 2017   ·   location: Washington D C area
id 8791420
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 InkHulk (original poster member #80400) posted at 6:33 PM on Thursday, May 18th, 2023

These comments fall seriously short of the mark. "Because of what YOU expect her to be". That is such a cringy little passive aggressive cop out line, the likes of which I am all too familiar with.

RB, what do you say to finding out a way to DNA test the women we married to see if they are long lost twins?

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 1897   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8791422
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 6:37 PM on Thursday, May 18th, 2023

POSOM apparently told my wife that he wanted to "help" my DD and give her all kinds of sage advice on how to navigate her complex life,

This is so glaringly predatory.

And her last words to him..after reading his attention seeking messages, and him calling a teenaged girl pet names..was that she loved him.

She is not safe for you.

[This message edited by HellFire at 7:25 PM, Thursday, May 18th]

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6680   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8791425
Topic is Sleeping.
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