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Newest Member: Sodapop1234

New Beginnings :
In need of mojo to stick to my gut feeling.

Topic is Sleeping.
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 Charity411 (original poster member #41033) posted at 3:26 AM on Thursday, May 4th, 2023

I've been single for over 30 years since my ex left me for his mistress. I've had a few relationships, one disastrous which resulted in serious stalking. None of the relationships worked out. There was one that was better than the others, but I always felt his ex wife was on every date with us. I felt like I was constantly being compared to her.

On Christmas night, a full 25 years after we broke up, he showed up at 10:30 pm at my house. He sat on my porch in the freezing cold in a snow fall that was glittery and beautiful. He cried and apologized for our break up. We eventually moved inside and continued to drink wine in my house util 2 am, at which point he asked if I would go to Jamaica with him. I was floored. I said I'd think about it, but in reality I didn't want to hurt his feelings, as he had already been crying.

After a few more impromptu visits, with him being pretty much drunk before he's showed up, he's professed his love for me. How he never stopped loving me. And he's continued to invite me to go to Jamaica with him. I've told him twice I'm not going anywhere, much less Jamaica. I just retired and I need to get on my feet. He's offered to pay. This is called "I'm not taking no for an answer".

After another time he showed up and professed his love for me, I told him three days later I wasn't interested in anything but a platonic relationship. He's truly a good guy. After not hearing from him for about 3 weeks he showed up again. He told me I hurt his feelings.

So about two weeks ago he messaged me and asked if I had updated my passport yet. I've told him twice I'm not going anywhere, and yet it doesn't sink in. We were supposed to go to dinner, my treat, because I'm trying to keep this platonic, but I cancelled because of flooding in our town due to our proximity to the Mississippi River. The next night, I went downtown because I learned that afternoon that that my best friend, who we met for drinks downtown every Friday night, died two days before. Of course we all went, because there was group of us that met every Friday, and we were stunned. This upset him because I cancelled going downtown the night before, due to water shooting out of all the manhole covers downtown. Somehow, when your best fried just dropped dead, you go anyway.

I need mojo to call this guy off. I like him, and part of me loves him, but I have no desire to have a romantic relationship with anyone. The old co dependent tendencies are creeping in. I dread hurting his feelings, at the risk of my own feelings. Please give me a pep talk.

posts: 1728   ·   registered: Oct. 18th, 2013   ·   location: Illinois
id 8789488
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leafields ( Guide #63517) posted at 6:03 AM on Thursday, May 4th, 2023

My condolences on the unexpected loss of your friend.

He might be a nice guy, but he sounds like an entitled, selfish jerk to me. Instead of showing empathy for the loss of your friend, he's focused on you not meeting with him.

Well, showing up drunk at your door says booty call to me. (I was wild in my teens.)

For the repeated invitations to Jamaica, I can understand the first ask, and a second "are you sure? The offer still stands" but any more would have me questioning why he wouldn't listen to what I was saying.

I wouldn't worry about his feelings because he may not have any and wants to manipulate you.

BW M 34years, Dday 1: March 2018, Dday 2: August 2019, D final 2/25/21

posts: 3301   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2018   ·   location: Washington State
id 8789499
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aprilfool1985 ( member #56750) posted at 6:22 AM on Thursday, May 4th, 2023

Sounds like this guy needs to hear Gavin de Becker’s explicit rejection, from The Gift of Fear:

No matter what you may have assumed till now, and no matter for what reason you assumed it, I have no romantic interest in you whatsoever. I am certain I never will. I expect that knowing this, you will put your attention elsewhere, which I understand because I intend to put my attention elsewhere.

Then No Contact: no answering the door, etc etc.

Me: BS, of a certain age Him: WS, of a certain age +3 events in question around 1985, M 1988, several adult children

posts: 113   ·   registered: Jan. 8th, 2017   ·   location: United States
id 8789500
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EvenKeel ( member #24210) posted at 1:40 PM on Thursday, May 4th, 2023

I've been single for over 30 years since my ex left me for his mistress. I've had a few relationships, one disastrous which resulted in serious stalking. None of the relationships worked out. There was one that was better than the others, but I always felt his ex wife was on every date with us. I felt like I was constantly being compared to her.

On Christmas night, a full 25 years after we broke up, he showed up at 10:30 pm at my house.

I am confused...which guy showed up? The guy that was not fully over his ex?

Please give me a pep talk.


YOU DESERVE MORE.

You deserve more than a man that:
- Does not have the respect for you to just CALL you and talk. To see if you even WANT to see him after all this time. Who the heck shows up 25 yrs later, late at night like that?? A man who is only looking out for himself. No respect for your time, feelings or what YOU might have going on Christmas night!
- Can only show up pretty drunk. HARD PASS. This tells you MOUNTS about this guy.
- That is NOT a manipulator! There are a few examples in just your little post here.
- That listens to YOU. You have told him you are not going on the trip, you told him you are only interested in platonic, etc. He repeatedly disregards your wants!!!
- is mature.

This upset him because I cancelled going downtown the night before

Who cares!!! You owe this person NOTHING. His entitlement is quite concerning. He is pouting because you went to town the next day? Too bad. That is all about him...him....him.

Girl - red flags are a waving here.

We were supposed to go to dinner, my treat, because I'm trying to keep this platonic

He is demonstrating traits that do not even make him friend material.

I like him, and part of me loves him

Reread the above and ask yourself WHY. Why do you like/love a person who in just a few months has demonstrated all these issues. It is a great job recognizing your co-dependencies. Please continue to work on that for yourself.

Then if and when you decide you would like to date, you are able to identify a healthy partner for you.

posts: 6881   ·   registered: May. 31st, 2009   ·   location: Pennsylvania
id 8789537
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 2:42 PM on Thursday, May 4th, 2023

Oh hell no! Dump this guy and don't look back!

Red flag #1: Showing up at your house on Christmas in the middle of the night. Who the hell does that?

Red flag #2: Inviting you on vacation when you haven't even resumed dating yet

Red flag #3: Not taking no for an answer about Jamaica

Red flag #4: Getting pissed that you cancelled dinner with him but went about because your best friend died

All of these scream that this man is controlling and has absolutely no respect for you or your boundaries. He looks like he would end up just as disastrous as the stalker guy.

BW, 40s

Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 1894   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8789549
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BearlyBreathing ( member #55075) posted at 2:53 PM on Thursday, May 4th, 2023

What they all said.

Charity, your gut is serving you well. It is telling you what your heart doesn’t want to believe.
He is showing you who he is. It’s not who you want.

You deserve better.

(And so sorry about your friend!)

Me: BS 55 (49 on d-day)Him: WH. 64. D-Day 8/15/2016 LTA. Kinda liking my new life :-)

**horrible typist, lots of edits to correct. :-/ **

posts: 5902   ·   registered: Sep. 10th, 2016   ·   location: Northern CA
id 8789554
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nothisfriend ( member #53171) posted at 3:17 PM on Thursday, May 4th, 2023

No, no, no honey! He is not listening to a word you say or thinks that browbeating you will make you give in. You have a much stronger spine than that.

Is this your ex or the one that was better than the others? Does he live in town?

I'm glad you haven't given in on the trip. And guess what? You are not responsible for his feelings or his little hissy fit that you went out with friends to mourn your friend. I know that you don't want to hurt his feelings, but where is his respect for your feelings? You are just a toy, a trinket, that he thinks about when he drinks and wishes he had someone to go home and play with. A true partner would accommodate your feelings and wishes. He would ask you what he can do to make you feel safe. He would change his behavior according to your wishes. Since he views your feelings as insignificant I think you should view his the same way.

No is a complete sentence. Circle your posse if necessary.

Me: BS 50 (at the time) Him: WH 53 (at the time) D-Day: 10/25/15 Married: 28 years. One son, age 18 (at the time)
D final 2016 REMARRIED to a marvelous guy on 4/22/23

posts: 1293   ·   registered: May. 11th, 2016   ·   location: Illinois
id 8789556
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Chili ( member #35503) posted at 3:59 PM on Thursday, May 4th, 2023

Hey Charity girl - good to see you.

I have to weigh in on this because in many ways we have shared similarities in our journey and you've lifted me up when I was fumbling around, so here goes:

Nope.

and

Nope nope.

I don't like it. I wasn't halfway through reading your post and started to get the heebie icky nasties about this situation (the crying, the professing, the pressure - all a bit emotionally manipulative if you ask me). But I get how it makes you go, "Wait, what?"

I have ended up in most of my relationships because I was cruising along, driving the bus of my own life beautifully, doing all sorts of interesting things and then, bloop, some man drops into it and for whatever goofy reason (I mean, I know now, but I didn't then), I ended up saying, "Huh, ok, sure, why not."

They were my prince availables.

You can feel like, kindness, tenderness, empathy, and any other number of things without changing the course of the bus you're driving. A gentle version of: "no, that's not part of my focus in my life right now" is sufficient. AND, if like the trip downtown, a brilliant matched companion walks into your life tomorrow who is NOT this guy, you get to pursue that if you decide it's right. The two things aren't related. Just like a trip downtown with him vs. one with your grieving friends.

This is the beauty and authenticity of you being the decider in your own life. You can hold it loosely and point things where you want to go and still be open to whatever might be around the next corner - subject to consideration as to whether you want to go that direction or not. And say to yourself the whole time, "I trust myself to figure it out."

I think you're VERY above and beyond clear that this isn't the direction you want to head. He should respect that. You are not being cruel or dismissive. You are advocating for yourself. His reactions to that are his own shit and not yours to soothe.

I hope you see this as a mojo pep talk because it is. You are mighty. You fought hard hard hard to get to this place you are. Celebrate it. Revel in it. Dance nakey on top of the mountain.

2012 pretty much sucked.
Things no longer suck.
Took off flying solo with the co-pilot chili dog.
"Life teaches you how to live it if you live long enough" - Tony Bennett

posts: 2233   ·   registered: May. 2nd, 2012   ·   location: Reality
id 8789567
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 Charity411 (original poster member #41033) posted at 4:40 PM on Thursday, May 4th, 2023

Thanks for your wisdom ladies. The one that showed up was the guy who couldn't get over his ex when we dated 25 years ago. He treated me better than any of the others. He lives in my town, which is only 3,400 people. He's never dated anyone after me. I have no idea what prompted him to suddenly decide he was going to pick up where we left off after all these years.

AprilFool, I'm going to memorize that response. Thank you. And to all of you who pointed out that inviting me to Jamaica was out of line, I needed to hear that. I thought so too, but I was second guessing myself. The thing that adds to the creepy factor is that Jamaica was the only place he and he ex wife would go on vacation. They went every year. I feel like he's trying to force me into this fantasy he has in his head. When I said no the second time, he offered to pay for the trip. I said no. And just last week he asked if I had renewed my passport yet.

EvenKeel, you gave me a much needed reality check. What I was attracted to the first time was his intelligence, sense of humor, and the fact that he's an excellent father. But when I look at the way you framed it, I realize that the picture he paints, and I've believed, about him being a great father is actually control. He pays is daughter's mortgage, cuts her grass, fixes everything in her house and buys her cars. She has a great job and a husband that is employed. When she became unhappy with her husband about a financial issue recently, he wrote a 4 page report with charts outlining what her options were if she stays with him or divorces him. His financial help was only an option for her if she divorces him.

I have lots of intelligent friends, unfortunately one less with the loss of my best friend, but I don't need this. I haven't heard from him since he messaged me asking if I enjoyed my evening downtown in a snarky way, and I pointed out it wasn't fun, and that we were grieving the sudden loss of our friend. Even the piano player at the bar cried when we told him she was gone. I think he messaged me expecting to catch me out on not meeting him the night before, and then didn't know how to handle my response. But I did note that he said he just looked up her obituary. I don't think he believed me at first so he had to check it out.

Thanks for your moral support ladies. I haven't discussed this with anyone in my life, other than to say I have no interest in a romantic relationship with anyone. He could be perfect and I still wouldn't have interest. It's a small town, he's well known, and I don't want to criticize who he is. I need to shut down this idea I get that I'm a bad person if I hurt his feelings. That thinking has gotten me in trouble many times.

posts: 1728   ·   registered: Oct. 18th, 2013   ·   location: Illinois
id 8789573
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doublerainbow ( member #82239) posted at 1:52 AM on Friday, May 5th, 2023

I stopped reading after this statement:

On Christmas night, a full 25 years after we broke up, he showed up at 10:30 pm at my house. He sat on my porch in the freezing cold in a snow fall that was glittery and beautiful. He cried and apologized for our break up"

I'm glad you got your clarity! And my deepest condolences about your friend.

Me: BS (38) Him: WS (45) D-Day (Jan 2022), going through D. 1 DD age 4. Just want to know there’s light at the end of this mess.

posts: 67   ·   registered: Oct. 26th, 2022   ·   location: West Coast
id 8789638
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 Charity411 (original poster member #41033) posted at 3:39 AM on Friday, May 5th, 2023

Thank you Double Rainbow. I miss her terribly. She was a good friend.

posts: 1728   ·   registered: Oct. 18th, 2013   ·   location: Illinois
id 8789654
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 Charity411 (original poster member #41033) posted at 3:59 AM on Friday, May 5th, 2023

Chili, I'm so gratified to hear I was able to uplift you when you needed it. That's the value of SI. We are all veterans of the same war. We learn from each other.

You are absolutely right. I know what I want and don't want. I retired a year ago, and for the first time since I was 16 I am not accountable to anyone. No husband, no boyfriend and no boss. I have no desire to give that up. Who knows what the future will offer, but for now, I'm loving my life. I have my new rescue dog Bentley and he's all the man I need. He's an awesome snuggeler.

I truly appreciate all of your responses. No matter how far we come after divorce, there are times when we still doubt ourselves. You all reminded me that I'm just fine. My gut told me this was all wrong and I just needed reinforcement.

posts: 1728   ·   registered: Oct. 18th, 2013   ·   location: Illinois
id 8789657
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BraveSirRobin ( member #69242) posted at 3:24 PM on Friday, May 5th, 2023

The thing that adds to the creepy factor is that Jamaica was the only place he and he ex wife would go on vacation. They went every year.

I was just getting ready to ask why Jamaica, as it seemed like an oddly specific request. My suspicion was that it was because he already had the trip planned with someone else who recently bailed on him. This is just as bad. Your relationship ended because he kept bringing up the ex, and then he comes back years later, and the first thing he wants to do is take you on a recreation of his annual trip with her?

He could have chosen literally anywhere else on the planet, which tells you everything you need to know.

WW/BW

posts: 3625   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8789774
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 Charity411 (original poster member #41033) posted at 6:10 PM on Wednesday, May 17th, 2023

Update: I listened to my wise friends on SI and I put a definitive end to the situation. That went about how I expected.

First he said I was imagining things about the insistence on going to Jamaica with him. Then he said I said yes. (Didn't happen.) That must have been the imaginary answer I gave to the imaginary question. Then I was told I was immature because two adults can go on a trip and it doesn't mean romance is involved. I asked him why he was asking his ex girlfriend from 20 years ago, and offering to pay for it, when he could ask his best male friend of 20 years and pay for him. I never got an answer to that, just additional criticism. I have anger issues, I'm bitter, I'm paranoid, etc. etc. Shame on me for knowing what I want in my life.

My gut and all of you were right. I am well rid of this situation. Probably the most interesting thing he said was "If I had to guess, you've been listening to other people who talked you out of it." Thank God this was over Facebook messenger because I laughed out loud. I was never talked into it in the first place. All of you immediately came to mind, because you all gave me the mojo to set him straight. I am forever grateful for your kind wisdom. And I'm so relieved to be done with this drama.

posts: 1728   ·   registered: Oct. 18th, 2013   ·   location: Illinois
id 8791265
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Chili ( member #35503) posted at 8:09 PM on Wednesday, May 17th, 2023

Uh, yeah. FTG Charity.

I think he showed himself fully to you in that exchange. Good on you for knowing what you want and need. I think we all were just supporting you in what you knew and wanted for yourself all along.

PS: If he needs a demonstration in what real anger, bitterness, and immaturity looks like, maybe we could do an interpretative dance or puppet show to help him understand? (Jerk).

2012 pretty much sucked.
Things no longer suck.
Took off flying solo with the co-pilot chili dog.
"Life teaches you how to live it if you live long enough" - Tony Bennett

posts: 2233   ·   registered: May. 2nd, 2012   ·   location: Reality
id 8791295
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 9:03 PM on Wednesday, May 17th, 2023

Lying, gaslighting, manipulating, and insulting… what’s not to love about this irresistible prince? rolleyes

Congratulations on dodging a bullet!

BW, 40s

Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 1894   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8791301
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 Charity411 (original poster member #41033) posted at 1:45 AM on Thursday, May 18th, 2023

I love you people!

posts: 1728   ·   registered: Oct. 18th, 2013   ·   location: Illinois
id 8791329
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Catwoman ( member #1330) posted at 2:44 AM on Thursday, May 18th, 2023

He seems to be high on fantasy gas.

His ex is now a fantasy . . . and one he thinks he can replicate with you.

YOU are a fantasy because the last 25 years, he has been able to morph and mold you into JUST the person he wants to be with.

Problem is . . . REALITY.

He's not living in the real world. This only ends badly. If he were REALLY interested in YOU as a PERSON instead of YOU as a FANTASY, he would be willing to take things on your timetable, to meet for coffee, etc. Not to whisk you off to First Wife Fantasy Central (known to us mortals as Jamaica). Not to mention the not listening to your boundaries, which waves more red flags than China.

I had two exes that pulled this "one that got away" crap. One I knew was false. One I had sympathy for, but he was married, I am in a committed relationship, so *I* draw a hard and fast line. We leave the past in the past, we speak occasionally of inconsequential things and that is IT. Exes are usually exes for a reason.

Cat

FBS: Married 20 years, 2 daughters 27 and 24. Divorced by the grace of GOD.
D-Days: 2/23/93; 10/11/97; 3/5/03
Ex & OW Broke up 12-10
"An erection does not count as personal growth."

posts: 33182   ·   registered: Apr. 5th, 2003   ·   location: Ohio
id 8791337
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BlackRaven ( member #74607) posted at 7:08 AM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023

Charity,

I'm so glad you listened to the wise people on this post. This guy has a big sign over his head flashing "narcissist."

The entitlement - thinking he can show up and you'll still want him
The love bombing - come to Jamaica
The hook - his crying
The anger when he doesn't get his way.
The gaslighting

You can't be friends with this guy. He will keep trying to rope you in, and who knows how he will react when he doesn't get his way. You say you've already had one stalker, so remember what that felt like if you feel tempted to let your boundaries down. Be civil if you run into him and otherwise, grey rock.

If you want to learn more about narcissism, watch some of Dr. Ramani's YouTube videos.
I'm sorry about the loss of your friend, and glad you have others for support.

posts: 381   ·   registered: Jun. 17th, 2020
id 8791883
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homewrecked2011 ( member #34678) posted at 11:20 AM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023

Once I dated a salesman. He said his job was to overcome every objection. So when I tried to break up with him, he wouldn’t listen, only tried to overcome every reason I told him I was breaking up. I finally stopped telling him a reason and didn’t answer his calls. If he came to my house I was not going to acknowledge him, I was going to just call the police.
Your guy sounds similar. Don’t answer the door/phone. If necessary put a restraining order on him. He sounds like a huge manipulator and you don’t need that in your life.

Sometimes He calms the storm. Sometimes He lets the storm rage, but calms His child. Dday 12/19/11I went to an attorney and had him served. Shocked the hell out of him, with D papers, I'm proud to say!D final10/30/2012Me-55

posts: 5498   ·   registered: Jan. 30th, 2012
id 8791888
Topic is Sleeping.
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