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Newest Member: trustingyou

Just Found Out :
All over the place

Topic is Sleeping.
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 Untethered21 (original poster new member #80433) posted at 6:30 PM on Thursday, July 14th, 2022

I recently received verbal confirmation from my WS in May. I had suspected something was amiss for about a year. I was always told that I was crazy. After much digging, I discovered that she been having and EO for at least two years with a "friend" from her high school days. Even after I discovered facts, I attempted to drop enough hints that she would confess to me.

During COVID, my job was extremely stressful and I neglected my family both physically and emotionally.

One night after a wedding we attended, I became upset and most of what I knew came out in the car on the way home. Needless to say we talked until about 3am. The next day she and I attended church and she said she has decided to only work on us.

She said that she had not been in contact with her AP since around March when she had told him she had wanted to pull away. She said he allowed her. At first, she told me that she was not sure that he would not always be a part of her life. That they were friends first. She assured me that the only physical contact was kissing when he would drive through town and stop by her work. She swore that they were not intimate.

During their A, she would say extremely horrible things about me to her two best friends. One of whom I allowed (with her 3 children) to live with us and our children when their house was destroyed by a hurricane. The other of whom I have known for twenty plus years.

I brought my knowledge of this to her attention as well. She apologized and seemed more upset that I had read those things than that she was caught in an A.

Since that time, she has ceased contact with her AP. She blocked him on messenger (how they communicated), she calls and talks to me, we have discussed the situation multiple times. She has basically surfaced level her friends and stated that they no longer receive personal information. She has given me access to her phone. We are moving forward.

Here is my issue. I feel I have made progress, but I am prone to bouts of being triggered and becoming sullen.

I am trying to trust her, but I am always leery when she is out of my site. I question a ton in my mind. I am seeing a counselor. She said she is not ready to see one. Had a bad experience with a religious one at one point. How do I start to trust her again? Why do I continually question her motives for this change?

I am so glad to know I am not crazy or alone.

[This message edited by Untethered21 at 6:33 PM, Thursday, July 14th]

So this sucks…

posts: 3   ·   registered: Jul. 14th, 2022   ·   location: LA
id 8744661
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survrus ( member #67698) posted at 7:13 PM on Thursday, July 14th, 2022

UnT,

You wrote, She assured me that the only physical contact was kissing when he would drive through town and stop by her work

Kissing is sex, she mixed her saliva with OM saliva and likely gave you whatever oral germs, HPV Syphilus etc, OM has. It sure didn't stop there, I would give you 100 to 1 odds.

Please read the stories here if you haven't already to understand what going on and what lies your WW is telling you.

I presume she was sexting as well which likely involved masturbation which again is imaginary sex with OM.

Get a polygraph set up and have her write out a timeline for her affair and then take her to the polygraph.

The threat of a polygraph will make her cough up some more truth.

Don't tell your WW or OM but contact the wife or SO of OM and expose him, do it suddenly and without threats or warnings

posts: 1207   ·   registered: Nov. 1st, 2018   ·   location: USA
id 8744665
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LostOpportunities20 ( member #74401) posted at 7:28 PM on Thursday, July 14th, 2022

Whatever else you do, make sure you keep taking care of your health. Eat, exercise, sleep as best you can.

Do not take anything she says about the details of the affair as the the truth.

You caught her. And she will minimize. You know she is a liar (she carried on with another man and hid it from you), there is no reason yet to believe she is being completely truthful. Waywards will minimize and only admit to as much as they think you can prove.

You mentioned that she has ceased all communication with AP. Were you able to verify this with your own eyes or is this something she told you?

Its good that you have access to the phone - but do have any indications that she scrubbed data from it before she gave it to you?

Do you know who the other man is? If he has a partner, you might want to consider informing them. That will ensure that the affair will be blown up.

BH (late 40s)
WW (late 40s) EA 2008, EA/probably PA 2009

Confessed the first, I caught her the second.

Filing for D

posts: 182   ·   registered: May. 7th, 2020
id 8744666
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 Untethered21 (original poster new member #80433) posted at 7:55 PM on Thursday, July 14th, 2022

"presume she was sexting as well which likely involved masturbation which again is imaginary sex with OM"

I won’t lie. I never asked specifically about sexting and the bi-product thereof. Perhaps I did not want to know. I am still trying to reconcile the woman in her texts and in her deeds (the double life) with the woman I married.

"Can you prove she actually ceased contact"

She sent me a screenshot of the block. I have her messenger on my phone and check to make sure he is still blocked regularly. Also, I am about to see when he is online. He’s a bit of a dumbass which makes me feel even worse.

"Contact his SO and blow it up"

Wife is now aware. I didn’t even have to do it. We live in a small area and apparently she recently put him on lockdown. However, sadly he has done this multiple times and she forgave or pretended it wasn’t as big as it was. This was prior to my WW.

Again, how can I ever reconcile who I thought she was versus what she proved she could be?

So this sucks…

posts: 3   ·   registered: Jul. 14th, 2022   ·   location: LA
id 8744669
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EllieKMAS ( member #68900) posted at 8:26 PM on Thursday, July 14th, 2022

Firstly, I am so sorry you had to join the best club you never wanted to be a part of. Please stick around - even if it gets hard, even if some of what people say is difficult. The more you learn and read, the better you get.

I'm just gonna respond to a lot of this cus there's a lot to unpack here.

During COVID, my job was extremely stressful and I neglected my family both physically and emotionally.

Yes and? Does you going through a stressful time somehow justify her deciding to have an affair? I'll answer - NO it absolutely does not. Grown up self aware people talk to their spouses when they are having issues. They don't go get a boyfriend.

The next day she and I attended church and she said she has decided to only work on us.

Ok so here was something I REALLY struggled with early on. My xwh SAID all the right words. I wanted so badly to believe that we'd get past it that I believed all those words for a number of months past dday1. But his actions told a completely different story. Once I started looking at those it changed my perspective.

Think about it like this. I have struggled with my weight forever. I know I want to change it. So I tell myself that "I am gonna eat better and exercise". Saying the words is all well and good, but if I don't actually DO the things, that's all it is is WORDS. In order to lose weight, I have to put in actual effort and words take no real effort at all.

She assured me that the only physical contact was kissing when he would drive through town and stop by her work. She swore that they were not intimate.

Just think about this logically. Does it make common sense that two grown people were sexting and carrying on for TWO YEARS and that NO physical stuff happened? Does it make common sense that two adults were carrying on like that and all they ever did was kiss once?

If there's one thing I know from my own experience and from being here for the better part of four years is that cheaters lie. Then they lie some more. Then they lie about their lies. I would bet any amount you like that they did a lot more than kissing. I am so sorry, but read enough around her and you will see time and again the when a ws "swears it was only ____" it almost always turns out to have been the full enchilada and then some. Just mentally prepare yourself that you will likely discover more.

She said that she had not been in contact with her AP since around March when she had told him she had wanted to pull away. She said he allowed her. At first, she told me that she was not sure that he would not always be a part of her life. That they were friends first.

Well how very generous of him to "allow" another man's wife to break up with him.... wot??

The glaring things to me in this are 1 - what happened in March that made her want to pull away after two years? and 2 - her trying to do the friend thing. My xwh tried this line of bollocks on me too. If your R has ANY chance at all, then she does not get to be friends with her affair partner.

Since that time, she has ceased contact with her AP. She blocked him on messenger (how they communicated), she calls and talks to me, we have discussed the situation multiple times. She has basically surfaced level her friends and stated that they no longer receive personal information. She has given me access to her phone. We are moving forward.

These are BARE MINIMUM steps. Like the least amount of effort she can do. You deserve a lot more effort on her part.

Here is my issue. I feel I have made progress, but I am prone to bouts of being triggered and becoming sullen.

Ummm, your wife cheated on you. For two years. And you just found out. I would be far more surprised if you weren't feeling "triggered and sullen".

I am trying to trust her, but I am always leery when she is out of my site. I question a ton in my mind.

The questioning everything and rampant paranoia are 100% normal for this stage in the process.

How do I start to trust her again? Why do I continually question her motives for this change?

You might not ever trust her again. I know that's hard to hear, but you really might not. As for questioning her motives? Yeah, I'm questioning them too. The reason you're questioning them is because her words and actions aren't lining up. Until they do, your gut is gonna be hollerin at you.

I am seeing a counselor. She said she is not ready to see one.

I'm glad you have a counselor!! Doesn't surprise met that she isn't ready to see one yet - IMHO she's still lyin her ass off so she doesn't want to do any digging that might show just how deep that rabbit hole goes.

For YOU - eat. Sleep. Avoid alcohol. Stick with your therapy. And know that YOU get to decide what happens next.

"No, it's you mothafucka, here's a list of reasons why." – Iliza Schlesinger

"The love that you lost isn't worth what it cost and in time you'll be glad that it's gone." – Linkin Park

posts: 3571   ·   registered: Nov. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: CO
id 8744672
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Rufus ( new member #75754) posted at 8:28 PM on Thursday, July 14th, 2022

"Again, how can I ever reconcile who I thought she was versus what she proved she could be?"

Don't spend a lot of time trying to do that. She's human. You had an idea of what she was, but it wasn't her. That's been blown up. Leave it be. Quicker you move on from that and the less you mourn over it, the better. It wasn't real. Take some deep breaths. Step back and look at your situation objectively and from the outside, best you can. Listen to those who can look at it objectively and from the outside.

Do it now. Because if you don't, you'll just be one year older when you do. -Warren Miller

posts: 31   ·   registered: Oct. 28th, 2020
id 8744674
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MickDiddy ( new member #80155) posted at 8:44 PM on Thursday, July 14th, 2022

Sorry to see you here.

I would be very hesitant to accept her version of reality, her truths, as having any bearing on actual reality. She has created a narrative to hold herself in the least-negative light.

Please determine your own truth based upon things that you can verify personally, and presume that anything from your wife's mouth is self serving, and a lie.

posts: 15   ·   registered: Mar. 25th, 2022
id 8744676
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RealityBlows ( member #41108) posted at 8:44 PM on Thursday, July 14th, 2022

You’re having a difficult time trusting her. You do not feel safe and secure in this post infidelity relationship. This is absolutely normal and universally common.

Trust slooowly rebuilds with time and action.

The best way to expedite trust and security is to be VERY thorough in the affair mitigation process. No short cuts. No rug sweeping.

Start by ensuring absolute NC. Ensure she doesn’t have one foot in and one out of the marriage. She has to be ALL IN and devoted to R and NC. The AP has to be gone. Whatever friendship they had crossed the line. It’s gotta be you or him and nothing in between.

If she’s not getting this, she’s not a candidate for R.

Full Disclosure: You can’t reconcile and forgive things you have little knowledge of. You need to make informed decisions going forward, with probably the biggest gamble of your life, going forward with a cheater.

Shedding light on every aspect of this affair, exposing it in uncomplimentary bright light, examining it with clinical objectivity, clarity, removes the mystique, removes any erotic, romantic, sentimental glamour glow residue that may exist in the vignetting of the affair.

Full Disclosure and Transparency will reduce any seductive mystery and relentless questions that can haunt you and sandbag your efforts to reconcile.

These two items followed by exhaustive IC and self examination and good intimate communication will serve to rebuild trust.

She, has to rebuild the trust. That’s her job. She could start by going to IC, but she’s “not ready yet”. She just doesn’t seem, by what you’ve described, very devoted to reconciliation. How can you possibly begin trusting with her level of effort so far?

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 8:55 PM, Thursday, July 14th]

posts: 947   ·   registered: Oct. 25th, 2013
id 8744677
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Emptyglass ( new member #80295) posted at 8:51 PM on Thursday, July 14th, 2022

I’m sorry you are in this situation.

Please don’t blame yourself as hard as it is. Cheating is about the cheater not the spouse in the dark. It is the most vile, selfish act one could do to a marriage. It is a choice.

Your WW should be willing to do anything if she wants to save your marriage. She needs therapy. Anyone who does this to someone they claim to love and share their life with needs to dig deep to find out why they have such a character flaw. And they need to work on themselves before they can be a safe partner to anyone.

Trust is earned it’s not something blindly given. WW has to prove she is trustworthy and that will take time and lots of work on her part. Honesty is the core of trust…I don’t believe she is being honest. Sorry.

I do hope you find peace and happiness. And hope the pain of betrayal is minimal. Try focusing on yourself as much as you can. Treat yourself with kindness and guard your heart. Distract yourself with things you like to do, friends, family. It will get easier

posts: 22   ·   registered: May. 5th, 2022
id 8744679
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 8:55 PM on Thursday, July 14th, 2022

So sorry this happened to you. Some boilerplate stuff that is going to help you:

1) Full electronic transparency. All devices, all accounts, phone gps tracking on. Also a free review of all history and a message restoration service/software. You don't always recover deleted stuff but you might get something.

2) Complete written timeline of the affair. (Optional) polygraph to confirm. This helps avoid "trickle truth" and especially a type of lie where she says, "I think you misheard me" or "I swear I told you that last time"

3) Individual counseling for both of you. Hold off on marriage counseling until you at least believe she could be an honest dealer.

Recommended books: "Not Just Friends" Shirley Glass, "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair" Linda MacDonald

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 2116   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8744682
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 Untethered21 (original poster new member #80433) posted at 10:31 PM on Thursday, July 14th, 2022

This a ton to unpack. I truly appreciate the many responses. I am going to attempt to give a synopsis of where we currently are insofar as our daily lives together go.

In essence, the first two weeks we started just talking. For hours. I grilled her and grilled her. She answered my questions as I asked them. She admitted that she was uncomfortable, but said she understood she caused this. We now make time to talk daily. We communicate via text, phone, and social media. We have exchanged groups of friends. She had one in particular who actually encouraged her to continue talking to her AP even after she pulled away. She has given a timeline and is writing one out in her own handwriting this weekend. She is seeking out a counselor near where she works. She has an appt for the first week in August. We are both reading books on R. We spend time each night discussing these books.

Last week, she and I had a very pointed conversation. I asked her pointedly if she truly believed she could have her cake and eat it too. She said that she did at the time. She thought she had me at home and him to vent to, talk to, and encourage her. She used messenger at work. We talked about my lack of trust and she stated she understood. We talked about how I am triggered between 4:45pm-5:30pm because that was when they would message. She now calls me during those times are texts me. She also admitted that Mondays are when they would talk the most to catch up on their weekends. (He works pretty far away and his home is forty minutes from us).

She stated that they would go back and forth---talk--get too close---one ghosts or pulls away. Then last January, she did not pull away. She allowed herself to believe that she could have both. On that note, I made it very clear that I am not second place or a backup plan.

Since DDay, I have been working on me. I have begun working out again. I watch what I eat. I read books that push me to be better. I see a counselor. I spend as much time with our kids as possible. In essence, I have come to conclusion that no matter what happens, the best me is best for everyone--especially my kids. I have set many boundaries with her. I tell her now when I begin to feel certain way about certain things. She asks me about triggers.

As far as the physical nature of their relationship, I can only go by what she tells me. I am looking into how to get a polygraph. However, this all started when I went through her phone. When I could not stop that voice in my head. She did delete her texts/messages to him. However, she did not delete the ones to her two friends where she would get advice and give details. In no text messages did she talk about their physical acts.

My therapist says anyone can behave if they are in fear, but a true character change will only be apparent through repeated actions that are not checkboxes. I am watching behaviors. I am watching for patterns. I will not lie, it is exhausting at times. I want to just believe and move on. However, that is not logical or rational.

To answer a question in March, she pulled away because she agreed to go with me to a marriage counselor. However, the counselor was quite over-the-top with a few beliefs he holds. His wife was wonderful, however. Do I think she has things of which she has not shared? Yes. Do I think she is afraid of it all coming out and me being out the door? Yes. But, she has been given multiple opportunities to tell me and has chosen to share only what she has. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. She has said on multiple occasions that she feels that if I get upset, I am out the door.

It really all comes back to if this is a true character change or simply a fear-driven manipulation of the whole situation.

Also, at what point do I stop being ANGRY at her AP and the best friend who encouraged her (she even went so far as to goade her after she ended it with comments about her going to see him or how good he must look now etc). Like I never thought I would think half the thoughts I do. I have never felt this out-of-control with my thinking. I thank God for therapy, books, this place, and my confidantes.

So this sucks…

posts: 3   ·   registered: Jul. 14th, 2022   ·   location: LA
id 8744692
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 10:42 PM on Thursday, July 14th, 2022

I'm going to be blunt.

They are adults,who believed they had feelings for each other. They had sex. He only lives 40 minutes away. That's nothing.

Married men who have affairs don't have an affair to send sweet little messages,and words of encouragement. They're in it for the sex.

They had sex. She is lying. Why would you believe her? She had no problem lying to you for 2 years. Why would she be honest now? She is lying.

Polygraph. Non negotiable.

How do you know his wife knows? Did you speak directly to her,on the phone?

Do NOT share this site with her.

Look around for a burner phone.

[This message edited by HellFire at 10:43 PM, Thursday, July 14th]

posts: 4669   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8744694
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 10:50 PM on Thursday, July 14th, 2022

If her best friend who encouraged her is not also willing to make real efforts at recompense and change, that friend needs to be cut out of her life.

If she cannot become a true friend of the marriage, she needs to be removed from your lives.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 2116   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8744695
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Dkt3 ( member #75072) posted at 11:37 PM on Thursday, July 14th, 2022

Don't you find it odd that if she has told you everything, that she would fear you becoming upset and bolting for the door? I mean if she's told you everything and you've not bolted whats to fear? Oh yes, the rest that she is not telling you. Like mentioned above, they have had sex. 2 years 40 mins apart...it would be a miracle if they didn't.

posts: 111   ·   registered: Aug. 3rd, 2020
id 8744702
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Grieving ( member #79540) posted at 12:43 AM on Friday, July 15th, 2022

Add me to the list of people who think it’s very, very likely they had sex.

My husband had one friend who knew about his affair, but he didn’t tell that friend that he was having sex with his affair partner. His friend only knew about the emotional bond and that there had been some small level of physicality. So it’s very possible that your wife had sex and didn’t tell that part to her friends.

Married for 20 years with two kids when my husband had a six month affair with a coworker. DD1: 6/2020. DD2: 7/3/2020. Reconciling

posts: 235   ·   registered: Oct. 30th, 2021
id 8744714
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src9043 ( member #75367) posted at 12:54 AM on Friday, July 15th, 2022

Sadly, your WW is probably lying about not having sex. As others have mentioned, a two-year EA and only 40 minutes apart practically guarantees that they had sex. A polygraph is an absolute must. Tell your WW that her timeline will be subject to a polygraph. Watch her reaction.

Her girlfriend that encouraged this horrible behavior should be gone. What an utter scumbag. If the girlfriend has a significant other, that person should be notified of the GF's role in this mess. She is most likely a cheater.

Also, if the OM has a significant other, that person must be advised of his cheating.

My last piece of advice is to go see a lawyer just to assess your options.

Do not rug sweep this affair. Your WW has a hell of a lot of work to do to become a safe partner. Do not offer reconciliation so easily at this point in time. You are still in the information-gathering phase. Whether she had sex with the AP will always bother you. Your best chance of getting an answer is through a polygraph. Do a little research but set one up soon.

posts: 680   ·   registered: Sep. 7th, 2020
id 8744717
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SnowToArmPits ( member #50943) posted at 2:38 AM on Friday, July 15th, 2022

Hi OP, sorry you're here.

One observation is she should be busting her ass to make this right, an eager, willingly participant in your reconciliation. Without that I don't like your chances.

As others have said any friends who enabled this affair need to be gone from your wife's life.

I think you should have a discussion with a lawyer about what a divorce would look like for your marriage in your jurisdiction. Sometimes couples like you are able to reconcile, sometimes the wife backslides into the affair and the husband ends the marriage, sometimes after lengthy reconciliation the husband just can't get over the betrayal, disrespect, etc. and decides to end it. I think it would be prudent to discuss divorce with a lawyer so you know what it would entail.

I like what you're doing looking after yourself, bettering yourself. I think it's good to be a little selfish here to give yourself some TLC. Boost your ego, confidence, get some positive things going again in your life. Will be good for you, and if will likely build your attraction with your wife. Schedule regular nights out with just your buddies, show your wife you're OK on your own.

Sadly, in many stories like yours "just a kiss" really means they've had sex. Cheaters are liars and minimize their actions for self-preservation. Don't buy what she's said just yet. A polygraph may be helpful for you here.

This reconciliation is likely to take months, maybe a few years to right your marriage, a long journey. Good luck man.

posts: 487   ·   registered: Dec. 25th, 2015   ·   location: Canada
id 8744728
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Emptyglass ( new member #80295) posted at 3:58 AM on Friday, July 15th, 2022

That ‘friend’ of your WW is no friend. A friend would not encourage destructive behaviour.

posts: 22   ·   registered: May. 5th, 2022
id 8744735
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RealityBlows ( member #41108) posted at 8:19 AM on Friday, July 15th, 2022

My therapist says anyone can behave if they are in fear, but a true character change will only be apparent through repeated actions

This is very true.

WS’s, fueled by fear and the adrenaline rush of getting busted on D-Day, can put on a very convincing display of what initially appears to be remorse. However, once the shock and awe of D-Day wears off, and the dust begins to settle, and they get comfortable, only true remorse persists. Anything less than, is not sustainable.

If it’s less than true remorse,
you’ll see her progressively become complacent with IC and self repair, defiant of terms for R, resent boundaries and transparency. She may give you deadlines to "get over it". She’ll grow less patient with your questions, triggers and other infidelity trauma symptoms. She may even begin to test boundaries again. She’ll resent you for "making her give up" her enabling friends.

You’re going to obsessively wonder,
Is she reconciling for practical, pragmatic reasons or is she reconciling because she truly wants me and only me?

That’s the question that drove me crazy. Unfortunately, only time and consistent actions will tell. You just won’t know for awhile.

Reconciliation is a leap of faith for both individuals. She’s gambling that you’re not just going to cut and run at some point, and you’re gambling that her remorse is true, when both of you have the option to just cut your losses now and save precious time.

But before you make this gamble, take this risk, you really need to know, as best as possible, the level of risk you’re taking. Her not being completely forthcoming about the A puts you both at greater risk. It’s really in her best interests to tell you everything before committing to R. Any late revelations will be enormous set backs.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 8:27 AM, Friday, July 15th]

posts: 947   ·   registered: Oct. 25th, 2013
id 8744742
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morningglory ( member #80236) posted at 10:11 AM on Friday, July 15th, 2022

She assured me that the only physical contact was kissing when he would drive through town and stop by her work. She swore that they were not intimate.

She lied.

posts: 454   ·   registered: Apr. 15th, 2022
id 8744746
Topic is Sleeping.
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