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Wayward Side :
Given a chance

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Trdd ( member #65989) posted at 3:00 PM on Thursday, May 19th, 2022

You've read How to Help Your Spouse Heal from your Affair, right? Keep working those principles up to and even beyond the D, if that is what he chooses to do. Keep showing love, humility, remorse and keep being honest about everything.

Don't do these things to get him to choose R. Do them to make yourself a better person and to help him heal. Try your very best to separate the effort of making yourself better and healing him from trying to win him back. See him now as already leaving but you are going to love him anyway. And you are going to find a way to love yourself too.

I believe this is the platform from which you two will recover individually. If it turns out that you also eventually reconcile, so be it. But that should not be your stated nor intended aim. If you can do this mental shift seriously, it will make your efforts more pure and less stressful at the very same time.

Not easy, but potentially achievable.

posts: 593   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8735990
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Bor9455 ( member #72628) posted at 4:12 PM on Thursday, May 19th, 2022

I would say that you need to consider that anything you put in writing might just as easily be shown to a judge in divorce court. Proceed with caution and a clear understanding that whatever you say might not stay between you.

Implication: DO NOT TRUST THIS MAN! He’s waiting to stab you in the back

Sakura came here asking for advice and help. I'm paraphrasing, but she states in her original post that he is giving her until the divorce hearing to prove to him that she is R worthy. The advice isn't given in a vacuum, but within the context of the BH's comments in his thread that infidelity was a deal breaker, so proceeding with caution that the BH was seemingly dead set against R isn't an attack as much it is a piece of practical advice. Look, there is obviously a lot of context and information of events that we are all missing between Sakura and her BH, that is for them, but I don't find it an attack to tell a WS to be open and transparent but also careful to

it sounds as if your husband has experienced some really significant family issues that may have left him with a fractured sense of what a healthy relationship looks and feels like

Implication: this dude is MESSED UP. Stay away!

One of the tenets of healing and reconciliation is that the destroyer (WS) has to transform into being the healer of their BS for the trauma caused by the WS. Again, the nuance of the situation here is that Sakura's infidelity was quite devastating to her BS, as it is with just about all BS, but some of his past FOO issues have nothing to do with Sakura. She alone is not equipped to tackle some of the additional trauma that he experienced as a younger man.

I certainly believe that we learn how to model behaviors about relationships from our parents and when there is infidelity in any home, children can pick up on those things. Heck, insofar as I know, there was never any infidelity in my parents' marriage (Dad passed in 2018), but there are certainly behaviors that I picked up from their relationship that were good and bad, we come as a mixed bag in that sense. I mean, we are frankly all at some level messed up, which is what makes the human experience so fascinating.

I don't think he's capable of a healthy relationship, with you or anyone else

Implication: Get away from him NOW!

This is the only example cited where I could see your point, it is a bit inflammatory. If I bring it back to one of our tenets around here, is it not important that the BS and WS heal themselves before beginning to work on their relationship, i.e. you need IC before you worry about MC, because the Marriage is the client of MC, and with a broken WS and BS, there is no point in worrying about the Marriage quite yet. In this instance, Sakura's BS has trauma inflicted from her A but also from his upbringing that is a lot of burden for one to carry. I don't think it is some crazy attack that her BH has a lot put on him and that whether he chooses R or D that there will be a lot to process and deal with as part of his healing process.

Myself - BH & WH - 35 years (05/24/1985)Her - BW & WW - 34 years (05/25/1986)<P>D-Day for WW's EA - October 2017D-Day no it turned PA - February 01, 2020

posts: 237   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2020   ·   location: Miami
id 8736008
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 4:54 PM on Thursday, May 19th, 2022

One of the tenets of healing and reconciliation is that the destroyer (WS) has to transform into being the healer of their BS for the trauma caused by the WS.

This is a misreading.

The WS cannot heal the BS. The BS cannot heal the WS. All we can do for each other is provide emotional support to another person for dealing with one's own internal demons.

Further, anyone who waits for their partner to heal them will wait forever. Healing is an active endeavor.

Yes, this is just an opinion, but I think if you look objectively, people who work to heal themselves seem to do better than people who wait for their partner to heal them.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 27413   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8736021
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66charger ( member #69471) posted at 5:48 PM on Thursday, May 19th, 2022

he asked about reconciliation and how he is giving me a chance but he might never be able to get over this and that it shouldn't sway me from trying and the worst thing I could do is not try. He asked me to look deep and do what I think I should do. He would try but I will have to do the heavy lifting until he gets his head straight and he's understood his feelings better. His feelings now are telling him he wants to be with me but it's hard to understand them and to give him time.

Your husband has given you an opportunity, not a promise. His first question was "Why are you here". Asking you to go deep and do what you should do, is his way of asking you to make sure you are all in for the right reason.

The first question is always the most important one.

Your wants and needs for another man was more important to you than your husband and marriage. You are about to lose both. If saving your marriage and being with your husband is not your priority, move out, figure out your why's and let him figure out his. Roll the dice that once healed you will get back together and save the marriage.

Don't forget to sign the divorce papers on your way out the door.

Or you can choose to listen to your husband and keep trying even during the days of darkness. He gave you time and is asking for the same in return. He is not asking you to heal him. He is asking you to give him a little FAITH that you truly want to be y his side.

Thank you for standing up for your husband. He did not deserve your affair nor the judgement and spite. He certainly does not deserve to be mislead.

Chose your direction wisely. Time and opportunity are not endless. You should not be threatened by either. Your immediate goal should be to seek more of both.

[This message edited by 66charger at 5:51 PM, Thursday, May 19th]

posts: 322   ·   registered: Jan. 17th, 2019
id 8736032
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TheEnd ( member #72213) posted at 1:46 AM on Friday, May 20th, 2022

I hope you keep posting Sakura.

The responses can be overwhelming. Take what you need and leave the rest. Don't (if you can) get bogged down in side arguments about religion or even defending you BS. It truly doesn't serve you right now, imo.

You are in absolute crisis mode and so you need to focus on that.

As a betrayed spouse, I can only tell you what I needed, this may not apply to your husband.

You need to find your strength. Strength to stand by him and bear witness to his pain. Strength to own your choices. Strength to change.

If you come across as scared, he will not trust that your actions come from choosing him but only fear of losing your life with him. It's not the same. Stand up. Own that you did a horrible, horrible thing. Look him in the eye and tell him you will not be this person anymore. A weak person may cheat again. A strong person who owns their shit and learns to be a better person might not.

Dig deeper on your whys. What you have provided so far is passive. You paint a picture of a weak woman who isn't in control of her choices and did a bad thing. If you cheated because AP was "nice" and you "like attention" then that weak person might cheat tomorrow at the gas station when the guy next to her smiles at her. And hey, maybe that's the start of your why. "I'm weak for attention," ok, why? Why is attention from basically nobodies hold such sway over you? Why would said attention be worth your entire world? That's a pretty big issue to explore. Start exploring.

Your passivity comes through to me in your posts. I might be all wet. But he does not need to see passivity. He needs to see a strong woman determined to make things as right as she can and fearless in facing her own shit.

posts: 200   ·   registered: Dec. 3rd, 2019
id 8736080
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 Sakura2 (original poster new member #80318) posted at 2:43 AM on Friday, May 20th, 2022

Theend your post was the clearest to me. I "understand" what you're saying

posts: 48   ·   registered: May. 13th, 2022
id 8736085
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Hippo16 ( member #52440) posted at 3:05 AM on Friday, May 20th, 2022

GENERAL STATEMENTS: Please refrain from making statements that generalize gender, WS/OP/BS, race, religion or political alignment. Also do not presume to speak on behalf of other people.

So this:

TheEnd ( member)posted at 8:46 PM on Thursday, May 19th, 2022

I hope you keep posting Sakura.

The responses can be overwhelming. Take what you need and leave the rest. Don't (if you can) get bogged down in side arguments about religion or even defending you BS. It truly doesn't serve you right now, imo.

You are in absolute crisis mode and so you need to focus on that.

As a betrayed spouse, I can only tell you what I needed, this may not apply to your husband.

You need to find your strength. Strength to stand by him and bear witness to his pain. Strength to own your choices. Strength to change.

If you come across as scared, he will not trust that your actions come from choosing him but only fear of losing your life with him. It's not the same. Stand up. Own that you did a horrible, horrible thing. Look him in the eye and tell him you will not be this person anymore. A weak person may cheat again. A strong person who owns their shit and learns to be a better person might not.

Dig deeper on your whys. What you have provided so far is passive. You paint a picture of a weak woman who isn't in control of her choices and did a bad thing. If you cheated because AP was "nice" and you "like attention" then that weak person might cheat tomorrow at the gas station when the guy next to her smiles at her. And hey, maybe that's the start of your why. "I'm weak for attention," ok, why? Why is attention from basically nobodies hold such sway over you? Why would said attention be worth your entire world? That's a pretty big issue to explore. Start exploring.

Your passivity comes through to me in your posts. I might be all wet. But he does not need to see passivity. He needs to see a strong woman determined to make things as right as she can and fearless in facing her own shit.


Both of you - WS & BS - now have to figure out how to live with the memory of your "reaching for attention" (if that is what it was) and must do so whether you stay married or not. - children to consider at some points

Read again the quoted post - says most of what you need - especially the last sentence.

From an outsider's point of you, your boundaries are woefully lacking for what most would require in a proper married couple.

How will you fix that?

Are you the kind of person that drives off without paying for gas you pumped?

If a cashier gives you to much change or doesn't charge enough are you going to correct the error?

Next time an Adonis blows smoke in your direction, will you swoon?

Your husband is asking himself these questions now.

"Read that last sentence again"

Side note: My WS came home, confessed and changed her boundaries. And doesn't take crap from anyone anymore. Including me!

First step is deciding you will make the change. 2nd step is identifying the steps.

What will you do now to move forward.

Side note #2: Your BS has to chomp down a big Merde Panini. Keep that in mind for the rest of your life.

Finding a future together? "It can happen"

and thanks to TheEnd for the eloquent post. Said way better than I -

Not Just Friends

posts: 643   ·   registered: Mar. 26th, 2016   ·   location: OBX
id 8736086
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sundance ( member #72129) posted at 4:57 PM on Friday, May 20th, 2022

Sakura2: He's giving me until the divorce hearing to prove I want him so we can try to reconcile. He explained to me to not get my hopes up but to just try your best. Me starting counseling was also a requirement ...

He wants something to show I mean it, and that I already know what it is. I've thought about it so hard I don't know what it is.

Has he since shared with you what it is that he needs you to do to prove you want to reconcile and/or what it is that will show him you mean it? Based on what i've skimmed in this thread, it sounds to me like you have already confessed to all family members, taken a polygraph, and started therapy. -- all good steps in showing committment to reconciling and "proof" that you are serious in turning yourself around.

Healing takes time. Lots of time. Take the time that you need to get yourself healthy and strong.

I'm not so certain that personal healing and marital healing should be so strictly "monitored" (measured?) to neatly fit in a box and tied with a bow prior to any certain date on a calendar.

Rooting for you, your family, and your marriage! Sundance

Rusty: You scared?Linus: You suicidal?Rusty: Only in the morning.

posts: 142   ·   registered: Nov. 21st, 2019
id 8736240
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 Sakura2 (original poster new member #80318) posted at 9:28 PM on Friday, May 20th, 2022

Something my counselor brought up today was how I might have been jealous of my husband and wanted to stick it to him so to speak. I don't know how I feel about this, it sounds evil but what I did already was. But more importantly it sounds like an excuse. I don't see my actions having any deeper meaning besides I liked the attention, no childhood abuse, no hard upbringing.

Back to the jealousy though I was also told I might've felt like I was "missing out" married young, a virgin, was a housewife for years. I wanted those things though, I wanted to be those things. I wanted to get married young because I loved my husband. I wanted to be a virgin because I knew sex before marriage is wrong. I wanted to be a housewife because I wanted to take care of my children as much as possible. I need to think about these things more. I feel like I'm passing the blame by even considering these things

posts: 48   ·   registered: May. 13th, 2022
id 8736274
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BraveSirRobin ( Guide #69242) posted at 10:01 PM on Friday, May 20th, 2022

Fair enough. Resentment and a sense of missing out are typical answers, but that doesn't make them the right answers for you. They weren't the right answers for me, either, despite having married young. It's disappointing that your therapist is feeding you generic possibilities instead of insisting that you do your own digging.

You have made two assertions in direct conflict with each other. You claim a deeply held belief system and strict moral code, but you also say you threw all that casually away for attention and a few minutes of preplanned sex. You've been pretty quiet about how you got from Point A to Point B. You can't be a safe partner for anyone until you map that.

WW/BW

posts: 2834   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8736283
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sundance ( member #72129) posted at 1:16 AM on Saturday, May 21st, 2022

BSR: it's disappointing that your therapist is feeding you generic possibilities instead of insisting that you do your own digging.

I don't think it's odd that a therapist would suggest possibilities, and/or ask if a patient had considered X, Y, or Z. Sometimes, it can be just as helpful to rule things out. It can also be a way to stimulate thoughts-- allowing the patient to come up with different reasons why they acted the way they acted.

Sakura2: I need to think about these things more. I feel like I'm passing the blame by even considering these things.

Passing the blame, how?-- As in you don't think jealousy/missing out can be a reason for infidelity? Or maybe you just don't particularly identify with either of those things as being part of your why? Or, maybe you do identify somewhat with those ideas and you were unconsciously supressing those thoughts? The good news is that THAT is what therapy is for-- to help you figure all this stuff out. It certainly doesn't happen in one session.

Keep questioning yourself and considering possibilities. Leave no stone unturned. It's amazing what you can discover about yourself with patient, kind, and honest reflection.

Rusty: You scared?Linus: You suicidal?Rusty: Only in the morning.

posts: 142   ·   registered: Nov. 21st, 2019
id 8736310
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 Sakura2 (original poster new member #80318) posted at 4:15 AM on Saturday, May 21st, 2022

Yes my counselor is trying to stimulate me to think about it. The why's are just excuses but I understand needing to explore them.

posts: 48   ·   registered: May. 13th, 2022
id 8736320
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 Sakura2 (original poster new member #80318) posted at 4:26 AM on Saturday, May 21st, 2022

An honest reflection of myself?

I would say I'm a "good" person again Calvinist blush

But Im very passive, I knew this before it was pointed out to me. Not so much in my marriage but as a person if that makes sense. My husband is tired of me now being a maid and a yes husband women to try to please him. He knows I'm not faking it but it pisses him off to see me do it.

Back on topic though I like to help people it makes me feel good obviously but it hurts to see people suffer. Charity work etc is something I do. A person on the side of the street is enough to make me tear up.

I would also consider myself kind but stern. I believe many things modern society has condemned, God, babies rights to live, among other things for example. I don't let people walk over me and I speak my mind on things.

I'm passive on the inside about things but not so for things outside of me. My faith, marriage etc. This probably doesn't make sense and I plan on writing more but that's just I say now. I've thought about what type of person I am months after Dday and my mind races about it this is what I feel now looking inside

posts: 48   ·   registered: May. 13th, 2022
id 8736321
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 Sakura2 (original poster new member #80318) posted at 4:28 AM on Saturday, May 21st, 2022

I've also had a good day today
Just wanted to tell someone

[This message edited by Sakura2 at 4:28 AM, Saturday, May 21st]

posts: 48   ·   registered: May. 13th, 2022
id 8736322
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TheEnd ( member #72213) posted at 12:52 PM on Saturday, May 21st, 2022

That's good. Want to tell us about it?

posts: 200   ·   registered: Dec. 3rd, 2019
id 8736340
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WalkinOnEggshelz ( Administrator #29447) posted at 11:17 PM on Saturday, May 21st, 2022

Sakura2, you have a pm.

Me: WS late 40’s
Him: BH (HoldingTogether)
D Day: 7/24/2010
If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

posts: 15343   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2010   ·   location: Texas
id 8736383
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 Sakura2 (original poster new member #80318) posted at 11:39 PM on Saturday, May 21st, 2022

To clarify something for everyone. This:

I would say I'm a "good" person again Calvinist blush

Was a joke. Hence the quotations around good. Calvinists believe everyone is wretched, including ourselves. I was in a good mood so I said that.

Another joke would be what does the Calvinist say to their dog when they sit? Bad boy

[This message edited by Sakura2 at 11:47 PM, Saturday, May 21st]

posts: 48   ·   registered: May. 13th, 2022
id 8736385
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 Sakura2 (original poster new member #80318) posted at 8:00 AM on Sunday, May 22nd, 2022

Pity party but my kids really hate me, I see it in their eyes. They told me that the reason bh didn't leave yet is because I lost my job and he'll be financially ruined. They're never talking to me again no matter what when they leave. That they hope bhs real wife doesn't hurt him like I did. I know this is the consequence for my actions but it hurts that they are one hundred percent serious about it. Obviously it doesn't compare to his pain but I hope I can talk to them again. Sorry for bitchjng

posts: 48   ·   registered: May. 13th, 2022
id 8736402
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 3:56 PM on Sunday, May 22nd, 2022

Most humor needs non-verbal cues, especially tome of voice. Web posts contain no non-verbals, and therefore writing that is intended to be humorous often is not read humorously.

Please, everyone, think very hard about how your posts will be read - and about how they can be misread, too.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 27413   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8736426
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midnightschild99 ( new member #33465) posted at 5:31 PM on Sunday, May 22nd, 2022

A question that you might want to consider. Since you knew your BH's history with his mom and had a fair idea how he'd react when confronted with your betrayal of the marriage.

You said you entered the EA & PA because you liked the attention and then decided you didn't. What happens when you receive complimentary attention again?

If your BH decides to reconcile with you, what would prevent you from entering into another EA/PA?

posts: 33   ·   registered: Sep. 27th, 2011
id 8736440
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