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Newest Member: shouldistayorshouldigono

Just Found Out :

Topic is Sleeping.

Backtosayhi ( new member #72007) posted at 10:29 PM on Thursday, May 26th, 2022

Emptyglass you are not the foolish one. You just judged him by your own standards - and why wouldn't you? I realised I lived a 20 year lie. My Ex had never been faithful. Then his next wife discovered him on a gay website describing himself as bisexual! I'm not going to offer any advice. You will figure out what is best for you in your own time. A big hug to you.

posts: 9   ·   registered: Nov. 4th, 2019   ·   location: London
id 8737288

CoderMom ( member #66033) posted at 4:12 AM on Wednesday, June 1st, 2022

That is a very difficult situation and there is lots of betrayal you will have to work through. Have you considered talking to a therapist?

posts: 353   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2018   ·   location: Eastern States
id 8738019

Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 5:09 AM on Wednesday, June 1st, 2022

If you are going to stay with your husband I suggest you look closely at 1stwife’s story. She dealt with EAs and PAs and had her husband wanting a divorce. She finally had enough and told him she was divorcing him. He stayed but she doesn’t have him on a pedestal anymore and has a backup plan should cheating happen again.

One thing I have noticed about most BSs is we know longer look at our SO the same way. Liars, by the act of lying, are cheaters because they take away our truths. You can not respect someone who has cheated and lied by omission.

Please read Lying by Jonathan Wallace in the Ethical Spectacle. It is spot on about what being lied to causes. Great article.

When things go wrong, don’t go with them. Elvis

posts: 4212   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8738028

Lostwings ( member #79902) posted at 7:28 PM on Friday, June 3rd, 2022

Empty glass ,
So sorry that you belong here with us now but you and I are fortunate to meet this wonderful site to exchange experience with so many members being supportive . The most important thing to you is to know that you are not alone and you have support from the wonderful members here!

I found out about the affair from a text the AP sent my husband and my world just fell apart . It was only 5.5 months of affair but it could go as long as your WH’s betrayal if I did not find out !!!

All I can say is , take your time to grieve, cry, lash out, if you feel like it . Show it to your WH the pain you are feeling now. Let it out of your system !

Time will be your best friend . It has been 10 months since Dday 2 and I still cry or get angry but it was not as devastating as when I just found out and went to sleep crying every night.

Stay with us , read , post, join the discussions with us here … I can assure you , it will help tremendously …
Remember , we all care about you and you are not alone .. Virtual hugs !!!!

I thought it was love at the end of the rainbow , but a banshee came and almost destroyed my pot of gold . In R.

posts: 107   ·   registered: Feb. 7th, 2022   ·   location: United States
id 8738528

Odonna ( member #38401) posted at 8:40 PM on Tuesday, June 7th, 2022

It sounds to me like he is rig-sweeping and letting you do all the work. The best diagnostic I know to determine whether a WS is willing to do the work is Linda MacDonald's book: "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair." You read it first (it is short) and mark it up as you see fit in the margins and then insist he read it over 48 hours and come talk to you and tell you his plan to follow through. You will know in fairly short order whether or not he can be a "re-builder."

Good luck and stay strong!


posts: 976   ·   registered: Feb. 8th, 2013   ·   location: Northern Virginia
id 8739077

 Emptyglass (original poster member #80295) posted at 1:27 PM on Wednesday, June 8th, 2022

Thank you to everyone who has taken time to give advice and encouragement… I really appreciate it. Most days I feel overwhelmed and it helps to know there are others who have walked this that can relate or give words of wisdom from experience or words of encouragement….

Odonna… Thank you for recommending that book. It’s the second time it’s been recommended. I ordered it today.

I’ve had a hard couple days.. not sure why. Nightmares, intrusive thoughts and sadness. I’ve had to take medication to sleep. Sometimes I feel like I take one step forward and three backward. Some days I feel very strong and others very weak. We both are in individual therapy. Rebuilding self esteem and learning how to walk through this new reality is not easy as you all know. Even friendships take a toll. Some have distanced themselves or maybe it’s me distancing and others have stepped up to show support in any way they can. I feel like a fish out of water

posts: 68   ·   registered: May. 5th, 2022
id 8739170

ChamomileTea ( Moderator #53574) posted at 3:34 PM on Thursday, June 9th, 2022

Even friendships take a toll. Some have distanced themselves or maybe it’s me distancing and others have stepped up to show support in any way they can. I feel like a fish out of water

Yeah, that's something to be careful of. I did find myself self-isolating for YEARS after dday, and it did destroy several longstanding friendships. I think part of that was the depression which set in, but part of it was a simple lack of interest in other people. My brain was so busy with the betrayal. It's like your house is on fire and you're the only one who can see it. The house is burning and people are still talking to you about the weather and their boss and their lumbago, you know? And the worst thing about it is that you're totally AWARE that you're not coming through for people the way you ought to be but even THAT doesn't seem to matter because... your house is ON FIRE! shocked

The only thing I can think to recommend to you is that you work on Mindfulness. As you gain skills with it, it will help you stay in the moment with people and it will also help to calm the amygdala of the brain, which is where the panic signals are coming from.

You're going to be okay. Really. It's going to take awhile and it'll hurt like a bitch, but you'll get through it.


BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)
Married 40 years; in R with fWH for 8

posts: 7017   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8739333

 Emptyglass (original poster member #80295) posted at 1:01 AM on Friday, June 10th, 2022

Great analogy Chamomile Tea. Thank you

posts: 68   ·   registered: May. 5th, 2022
id 8739455

Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 10:31 AM on Thursday, June 23rd, 2022

It’s good to hear that you are in IC. Just remember that you can only contribute to a relationship to the level you are capable of. A broken person can only create a broken relationship. Focus on you and if your marriage is meant to survive this then whatever you build in yourself, added to whatever your husband builds in himself, will contribute to maybe you two making it.
I have to say that I question the ability of anyone to simply leave a long-term relationship at the drop of a hat. That affair – for all those years – is a long-term relationship. I would be extra weary of there being reestablished contact, while also being careful about the thought-process of someone that can drop somebody they cared about so instantly. I know it might sound contradictory or even counterproductive but there simply isn’t denying that your husband had enough connection with the OW to remain in infidelity all this time, and if he was willing to break his morals, his vows and risk his marriage for something that meant so little for him… Well… I guess his IC has a lot of work.

I am a strong believer in marriage, but also a strong believer that nothing should keep you in a marriage other than your will to be married. My wife and I often have our disagreements, but we realized years ago that our kids (grown up now) would be better off with two loving parents rather than a passive-aggressive and mutually disrespectful parenting couple. We realized that we have it comfortable financially, but eating steak twice a week doesn’t make up for feeling valued and appreciated daily. We realized that we could split. We could divorce. We only had to decide to do so. We even accepted that it was enough that one wanted to divorce. With that understanding and knowledge we also realized that we are only married because we WANT to be married to each other. This gave us great motivation to break down our issues and work on our marriage, and ourselves.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 12309   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8741511

Butforthegrace ( member #63264) posted at 12:27 PM on Thursday, June 23rd, 2022

I'm sorry that you're here. I don't have much analog from my personal experience. My WW's A was about 6-12 months, as far as I know (never found out the truth). She dumped me for the AP on Dday. We had been involved about 9 years. We didn't have kids together, but I raised her young son as my own, and I continued to have time with him after we separated.

Your WH's A was not just long term, it was extremely long term. Married couples who stay together watch one another morph physically from young to middle age to old, and along with the physical changes and challenges, we morph psychologically too, in the best of cases becoming wiser and kinder, but real life is messy and doesn't always go that way.

In many affair thread, there is the inevitable comparing the BS does, comparing herself/himself with the AP. What does the AP have that I don't? In my case that was especially acute since she left me for her AP. 9 years of being what I thought (and still think, after 27 years of current marriage) was being a pretty damn good mate and lover, all apparently worth nothing.

But in your case, the AP morphed too. After a 13-year A, with an older son, she can't possibly be a young woman at present. What led your WH to stay with her so long? At the risk of sounding cliche, a lot of threads involving cheating husbands are cases where the husband simply wanted some cheap sexual thrills outside of what he perceives as the humdrum of marriage. That's not the case here. It's like you describe -- a double life. It suggests that there is something profoundly wrong with your husband, some circuitry that never got connected in him like it did for most people. As you said, it must feel like you're living with an alien occupying the body of the man who, until recently, you thought you knew. I wish you luck. It seems like your task is figuring out who the alien is and whether you want that alien as your spouse.

"The wicked man flees when no one chases."

posts: 4179   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2018   ·   location: Midwest
id 8741519

Clint ( member #11711) posted at 12:58 PM on Thursday, June 23rd, 2022

It's a hell of a thing. My D day was in 06 and it hasn't been the same since. Reconciliation is just as hard as finding out about the affair IMO. If I had the chance to do it again, I would have gotten a divorce. The emotional turmoil has taken it's toll over the years. Just my take on it. You do what you feel is best for you.

posts: 3470   ·   registered: Aug. 16th, 2006
id 8741522

Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 6:25 PM on Thursday, July 28th, 2022

EG, how are you doing?

When things go wrong, don’t go with them. Elvis

posts: 4212   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8747528

 Emptyglass (original poster member #80295) posted at 6:59 PM on Thursday, July 28th, 2022

I’m digesting. Living a rollercoaster ride of emotions. Trying to focus on present and not past or future is how I cope. Thanks for asking. I do a lot of reading. I keep very busy with work, going to gym and time with family and friends… I haven’t made any life altering moves and still live in matrimonial home with husband and adult son who just finished school.. I continue therapy as a couple and by ourselves. I don’t feel the same about marriage that i used to. I used to believe it to be a sacred union two people shared… I really don’t value it like I used to or believe in it like I did. I’m not sure if that’ll ever change. My heart is broken. Not sure it’ll ever be fully repaired. Just trying to get through this as best I can with dignity and grace.

posts: 68   ·   registered: May. 5th, 2022
id 8747532

Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 11:04 PM on Thursday, July 28th, 2022

I hope you are taking care of your mental and physical health. It is the most important thing you can do.

When things go wrong, don’t go with them. Elvis

posts: 4212   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8747564

BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 3:11 AM on Friday, July 29th, 2022

First and foremost, do not beat yourself up for not finding out sooner and not noticing red flags. You loved your husband, you trusted him wholeheartedly, and you gave him the benefit of the doubt. That's how a good spouse is supposed to be. The fact that he took advantage of your trust is his failing, not yours.

Second, at this stage in your discovery process, I think it's too soon to get involved in marriage counseling. MCs give advice based on what's in the best interest of the marriage, not necessarily what is in the best interest of the people in it. Also, productive MC requires both partners to be honest and vulnerable; at this point, you can't trust a word that comes out of his mouth and you need to have your guard up.

I think you should focus on IC only right now and getting advice that's purely for your benefit.

Third, I have a very hard time believing that your husband ended his affair and/or cut off all contact with his OW permanently. More often than not, people who carry on affairs--particularly as long-term ones-- simply go underground or briefly pause until they feel the heat is cooled off. However, it's also entirely possible that his OW is sufficiently angry with and disillusioned with him that she wants nothing to do with him, but I suspect his OW is severely lacking judgment and self-worth.

On the one hand, cutting off the OW immediately (assuming this is the case) is the #1 requisite for reconciliation... but on the other hand, what does it say about him that he can betray you and your kids for over a decade with this woman and then discard her as easily as a used tissue the minute her existence became inconvenient? Does he view women like appliances, existing only to serve a specific purpose for him?

As part of your IC, I think it's worth reexamining the dynamics of your relationship. You might find that, in retrospect, you have been tolerating a lot of bad behavior on his part and carrying much of the emotional burden involved in keeping your marriage afloat over these years.

Lastly, if you haven't already, get a credit check on yourself and him, and (if possible) hire a forensic accountant. An affair that carried on this long likely involved financial infidelity, such as hidden debts, providing OW with monetary support, and/or simply spending it on gifts, dinners, vacations, etc. If you divorce, you might be able to recoup marital funds that were squandered during the affair as part of your settlement.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 3:18 AM, Friday, July 29th]

BW, 40s

Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 1897   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8747582

sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 2:36 PM on Friday, July 29th, 2022

Remember that recovering from being betrayed takes more time than anyone thinks it should.

MC soon after d-day doesn't help much, if at all, if the M is blamed for the A. OTOH, some MCs address the A first and confront the WS on their choices. If the MC addresses the A effectively, both BS and WS can be helped. My W's IC saw us on d-day. We continued to work with her because her way of serving our M was to address the A and to confront our individual shit.

I know you're going through a period in which you feel pretty awful. My reco is to keep breathing, to keep taking care of yourself, to keep looking at what you want, and to have some faith in yourself to find your healing path.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 29806   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8747654

Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 3:05 PM on Friday, July 29th, 2022

I have been called out several times for being too pro-reconciliation. For some simply thinking it’s possible to reconcile is "too pro". Personally I prefer to think of myself as realistic and result-driven. I feel a need to begin with that preface because what follows will definitely not sound pro-reconciliation. However, if you think it through it is both realistic AND result-driven.

I wonder how a person can have an intimate relationship for 13 years and then simply walk away from it.

You haven’t shared how your husband is feeling. Whether he’s contacted OW in any way, expressed remorse, misses her…

I find it chillingly cold if he can simply say "thanks and goodbye" to her and that it.

I know it’s not to your clear advantage that he misses her or feels like he had a difficult choice or whatever. But it is… It’s better that he shows emotions, preferably some emotions of shame and regret at having messed up so many people.

Seeing people as disposable is not a sign of a mentally healthy person. I hate throwing out labels I’m not qualified to use, but I’m thinking psychopath, narcissist… Someone that is totally self-centered and doesn’t feel compassion for those he wronged.
Yes – I know the OW made her own bed and all that. I don’t really feel that she should get any compassion. But I would want to hear that your husband didn’t just dispose of her like yesterdays pork-chop.

I would address this in therapy. All I have is what you shared and maybe I’m way off on your husband.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 12309   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8747664

BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 5:29 PM on Friday, July 29th, 2022

I tend to be much more hardline and cynical about Reconciliation than Bigger, so I think it’s interesting that we both picked up on your husband’s attitude toward the OW. I try to avoid using clinical terms to describe people I don’t know, but he has to have an empathy chip missing, both for what he did to you and disposed of OW.

Just to make the same disclaimer that Bigger made, I don’t care a fig about OW’s feelings; she’s getting the shit sandwich that she ordered. And having her out of the picture right away certainly makes reconciliation at least theoretically possible.

But as I said in my last post, I’m more concerned about what kind of person he is and whether that man really is capable of loving anyone other than himself.

BW, 40s

Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 1897   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8747704

 Emptyglass (original poster member #80295) posted at 10:43 PM on Friday, July 29th, 2022

I also find myself wondering the same things … if he’s capable of love for anyone other than himself. I really don’t know any longer.

How has he been? Remorseful. Sad. Upset. I also wondered if there was a character flaw or undiagnosed disorder. His therapist does not believe so. His therapist believes he has trauma from his childhood and job that was never dealt with and has contributed to his behaviour and wanting to escape reality… I try to be receptive and listen to what therapist says but I’m having very difficult time with it. Understanding it. Not sure I ever will.

I’m sure he does miss the OW …although he’d never tell me that. I’m quite aware how long the relationship was. And I know how intimate they were physically and emotionally so I’m sure it is difficult to go no contact. Do I know if he has gone ‘underground’ no of course not. I believe anyone could do this if they truly wanted to.

I also know we had a very happy life together. Which makes this worse. If we were unhappy, fighting all the time and not intimate this would be alot easier to accept. And move on from. It’s devastating to me and my family.

I find it hard to breathe … like the wind has been knocked out of me. I’m just trying to cope the best I can with what I have.

posts: 68   ·   registered: May. 5th, 2022
id 8747727

The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 1:43 AM on Saturday, July 30th, 2022

Is your H doing anything that indicates he wants to repair the marriage or make amends?

Sad and upset could be a very selfish serving emotion. Not necessarily b/c he’s been sad at what he’s fine to you and the marriage but more towards he’s had to give up the OW.

And I’m sorry the crap these therapists spew about childhood trauma etc. is just nonsense. Your H knew it was sting to cheat. Good childhood or bad.

That’s just an excuse.

Your H cheated b/c he wanted to.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 10 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.

posts: 13862   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8747733
Topic is Sleeping.
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