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Newest Member: Unsureofhope

Wayward Side :
W post: Now I am finally the one contemplating divorce.

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DoinBettr ( member #71209) posted at 5:56 PM on Wednesday, March 9th, 2022

You are the one in control now. It is why he is acting like he should have a while ago.
Stay on this path of leaving. You can always decide to stay before you walk out the door, but you need this exit to be fully realized. I said it would make you feel stronger and I believe it is having that effect right?
Keep going. One step at a time. If you really question if you should stay, ask you IC and your family. I bet they will continue to push you out the door more gently than we are.
Setup a separate account and get ready to be on your own. You can be married with things separated out. It makes things more difficult, but he didn't handle this well previously.

Now to your comment about leadership. Nope. Leadership is about raising up people who follow you. You set an example and bring them up with you. He is pushing you down. He isn't leading.

Maybe you can elaborate on what you mean by leadership. I haven't read it from your messages. He has been in control. That isn't leading.
Stay strong and slow down asking your husband what he is doing. It is like the love letters. He is slowly draining your anger. Hold onto it because it was keeping you safe, getting you to safety. Trust it a little longer. You are very codependent if you think this man was leading you in a good way and are wondering how to get him in charge of your life again.

posts: 715   ·   registered: Aug. 7th, 2019   ·   location: Midwest
id 8722034
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MIgander ( member #71285) posted at 6:27 PM on Wednesday, March 9th, 2022

Leadership... doinbetter had a good take on this.

I can understand the desire to have someone take the lead in your life. It makes being an adult less intimidating than when you are making decisions alone that have large consequences for you and your child.

However, if you are going to place your self under anyones care and guidance (hypotasos, Ephesians 5) or leadership, you have to develop a keen discerning nose for who is worthy of that level of trust.
Since you started this thing when you were 18, did you ever have a chance to develop this discernment?

You came from a background of Christian protestantism. I dont want to assume anything about your training, but I wonder if the kind of teaching on husband wife dynamics was the more wife submits to husbands will kind of thing. The problem with that kind of teaching is that the responsibility of the husband to literally die on a cross for his wife and family is often overlooked.

A woman is not to submit herself to any man unless he proves himself a self sacrificing, genuine disciple of Jesus.

Ask yourself this- does your husband in any way resemble Jesus? If not, why would you ever submit to his leadership?

WW/BW Dday July 2019. BH/WH- multiple EA's. Back at it again- bantering w the younger woman. Lied about blocking phone calls and deleted texts. Carried on with her. Financial infidelity again- who says you only cheat with lovers?

posts: 902   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8722040
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 soapt (original poster member #79960) posted at 7:20 PM on Wednesday, March 9th, 2022

Okay, gonna try to respond to several things here in this post:

They want that safe feeling of knowing you come home to them because you value them and want to spend time with them and make it right with them. They want a concrete reminder of your remorse in the form of a gift or a memorable time so they can physically hold on to something that says they're of value to you.

This is what he wants and I've never provided it.

He has shown himself to be at least BPD

Looked it up, sounds possible. And if it's true then he has even more work to do ahead of him. I will never tell him I think he has BPD.

He is unstable, selfish, cruel, ruthless and dangerous. In that context of his character, these demands are more of the same you've been manipulated throughout your marriage.

I see that you're right. I am at least aware of this bond formed by manipulation and mind games. My brain is still deceived because of this. It's hard to discern but I'm working on it.

So yeah, with a past like mine, your situation hits very close to home.

MIgander, how is your relationship with your sister now? And your father? Happy to hear you and BH are on the mend.

If you had this for more than a day you might not cry and question your life decisions every night.

Today my IC asked me to think about what is going to solidify any change? I must look at the facts, not try to gauge how he is feeling or decipher any of his actions. Look at the facts.

Keep going. One step at a time. If you really question if you should stay, ask you IC and your family. I bet they will continue to push you out the door more gently than we are.

My IC is pushing me to an exit just as hard as you, but my parents are gently just supporting me in whatever choice I make. My mom offered to pay the retainer for an attorney when I need one (which is now). It's great that I have their support, but I know I'm going to lack emotional support. They suck at empathy. My dad made it about him the other day. He was listening to me venting and at one point he said he was going to lose his best friend. I'm thinking that him losing his bestie is honestly sucky but also "Oh dang. I am losing the supposed love of my life and my daughter is losing her daddy. How sad for you though." So yeah. Gonna be tough either way.

Leadership is about raising up people who follow you. You set an example and bring them up with you. He is pushing you down. He isn't leading.

Yes ultimately, there has been no leadership. There was in the very beginning stages when he was heavily involved in church and youth group. That slowly died off because of his sexual addiction I'm sure. The devil went hard on us from the start. It is truly a tragedy.

Ask yourself this- does your husband in any way resemble Jesus? If not, why would you ever submit to his leadership?

He doesn't anymore. I might feel like I played a part in dragging him down but slowly I am realizing it's just the opposite. crying

[This message edited by soapt at 7:25 PM, Wednesday, March 9th]

posts: 64   ·   registered: Feb. 17th, 2022   ·   location: midwest
id 8722049
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 7:48 PM on Wednesday, March 9th, 2022

Hold up.

Does your father consider your husband his best friend?

And,after hearing about the abuse his child has endured,his only concern was that he would lose his best friend?

He didn't immediately realize this man wasn't his best friend,and that no man who abuses his daughter should ever be considered his best friend?

Lord,girl. No wonder you are attracted to your dysfunctional husband. Women tend to seek out men like their fathers. And if they're best friends,it's because they're a lot alike.

If you were my daughter, your husband would be in hiding. From me, AND her father,AND her stepfather.

[This message edited by HellFire at 7:50 PM, Wednesday, March 9th]

posts: 4874   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
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TheEnd ( member #72213) posted at 5:06 PM on Sunday, March 13th, 2022

Still rooting for you soapt.

I really try to be as non judgemental as I can be on here. None of us know the whole story of a marriage. And I believe most people are worthy of redemption if they earn it.

But Soapt, he reads as a monster.

You just told him that you felt raped (you were).

Never mind that he absolutely fucking knows that demanding you sleep with 3 men to "make up" for your affair is at a minimum sexual coercion. It's highly abusive, demeaning and cruel. So to me the tears over the rape are just bullshit. He thought it was ok to basically sexually traffic you as long as no one called it rape? Bullshit.

But then what, a day or so later he tells you that you have to come home during the day and sexually service him often and enthusiastically? NO ONE WOULD TALK TO A RAPE VICTIM LIKE THAT. This is further proof to me that his "shock" and remorse over the raping is manufactured.

I have no doubt you are special. You come across as intelligent, hard working and a loving mom.

But frankly and gently, you know why you are special to him? Because he owns and controls you.

posts: 281   ·   registered: Dec. 3rd, 2019
id 8722922
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redwing6 ( member #72593) posted at 11:33 AM on Monday, March 14th, 2022

I'm BS ... I rarely comment over here as I generally don't have much advice to give. Your husband is...evil is the only word I can find to describe him. I would urge you to flee right now. Run as far away and as fast as you can. No one deserves the abuse you have under gone.

BH 59, WW #2 D'd after 6month EA who scammed her out of our life savings
WW #1 51 since remairred twice continues to cheat even today WW #2 Refuses to admit she wrecked our marriage
DD adult 32 DSD adult 33 DSS adult 30

posts: 266   ·   registered: Jan. 17th, 2020   ·   location: Savannah, GA
id 8723080
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 soapt (original poster member #79960) posted at 5:51 PM on Monday, March 14th, 2022

Does your father consider your husband his best friend?

And,after hearing about the abuse his child has endured,his only concern was that he would lose his best friend?


1. Yes they were friends before we even got together. My father is a bit narcissistic so my husband doesn't really feel the same way about him, but they are indeed close.
2. No, this came up later in a different conversation with me. But it was like "Oh bummer. I may lose who I believed to be the love of my life and my daughter may lose her daddy, but how sad for you!"

I know you all think I am a victim, blind to the evilness that is my husband. I am salting everything because if he were on here sharing his side, he would be saying I abuse him because I shut him out and isolate myself, I ignore him, and all after I cheated on him. I am not ignoring your advice, I am just taking it all in carefully. The fact that my parents are not begging me to leave and pushing me to get divorced immediately should say a lot about the situation too.

Yesterday my husband went to church by himself. I slept in and didn't know he was planning on going. Then he comes home and says he wants to try a new church next Sunday. shocked He is also reading his Bible, calming down or leaving the room when he gets angry, not expecting sexual favors every day, communicating when he feels triggered instead of sulking and yelling, he is not wanting me to get with other guys, he is helping around the house and just being more thoughtful. I can't in good conscience suddenly walk out, and ignore the efforts he is making.

But even if I do end up staying, which I'm not saying I am, now I am keeping another secret from him, that I told my parents. This will obviously devastate him and it will feel like I cheated all over again.

I just don't want to suddenly walk out. I think the next time he does something egregious, I will just simply go.

Still praying, still deliberating, still hopeful.

Thank you for your kindness and advice. I promise I'm considering it all.

posts: 64   ·   registered: Feb. 17th, 2022   ·   location: midwest
id 8723134
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 6:07 PM on Monday, March 14th, 2022

If he were on this site,and he was being completely honest, no one here would say he wasn't incredibly abusive.

And that your parents aren't urging you to leave, only speaks to their dysfunction. You have a lot of issues, that can be directly related to your FOO. So it's not at all surprising how they've reacted.

It's also not surprising the way he is acting. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he hasn't been reading this thread.

[This message edited by HellFire at 6:08 PM, Monday, March 14th]

posts: 4874   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8723136
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MIgander ( member #71285) posted at 6:43 PM on Monday, March 14th, 2022

Hi Soapt,

Your dad being a tad narcissistic.. I grew up with a narc (covert) father. His favorite thing to do was to sit in judgement of my mother's thoughts. Her favorite thing to do was throw a fit and make his approval a condition for herself to feel good about herself. She's narcissistic too. So use that to salt what I'm saying.

If your dad is even slightly narc, you've likely grown up being used to be belittled, put down, ignored and gaslit. You likely had training in taking more responsibility for negative situations in your life than you were really owed.

The fact that your husband was chummy with your dad shows me that he knows how the game is played. If you want to get on in the family and be seen as a great guy, just butter DIL up. The fact that he was able to blow so much smoke up your dad's ass is disturbing. Even if my dad was a narc, if he heard of a man forcing his daughter into sex with strangers, he'd show up at our doorstep with his gun and a shovel.

In a rational world, a pastor wouldn't put up with one of his flock being abused in this manner. He would be moving heaven and earth to get that abused spouse OUT. Separation would be the number one goal of the pastor.

The fact that your FATHER is bummed about a best friend being lost and not showing up with a moving truck is breathtaking. Even if he's a narcissistic father, as a narc pastor, he should be concerned about his image. Have you started letting this leak in your family's church? I bet if you let this loose you would see another side entirely to your father.

Honestly, It wouldn't be a bad idea to disclose your situation to a few select people in your church. It would be good to get the support of your parish family and even light a fire under your father's ass to get you help in your separation.

Looking at your situation, the fact that you're seeing yourself as primarily a wayward spouse and not a victim of abuse shouts to how badly you've been gaslit in your life- first by your father and now by your husband. I won't refer to your husband as a betrayed. If he didn't like you sleeping with other men, he shouldn't have coerced you into it. Whether or not you actually enjoyed it, it wouldn't be an issue at all if not for his fucked up kinks. The fact that you reacted in an entirely natural manner to a man giving you gentle caresses and affection is not what's fucked up. It's the fact that you had to drive yourself into the shameful circumstances of fucking 3 guys in one day in order to get some physical touch from him... that's FUCKED.

I can't in good conscience suddenly walk out, and ignore the efforts he is making.


Remember what he did to you. This interlude of him being polite and helpful is like alligator tears from unremorseful serial cheaters. It's only going to last as long as it needs to. Once you're calmed down, he's going to go right back to his controlling abusive self. The real test of it would be you talking openly to him about separating. Or even dropping that if he so much as suggests you are obligated to provide him sexual favors or perform in other ways for him related to "his recovery from your affair" you are going to separate from him. Try telling him you don't owe him a damn thing because of all the abuse he has put you through during the marriage. Try telling him that he needs to get into IC if he expects the M to continue. Tell him he as an IC appointment before March is over or you're S.

Try holding any of these normal and healthy boundaries with him. How does he act then? Back to sulking? Back to victimhood? Back to blaming you for any of this? Then you'll know what he's really determined to be.

Why does he want to change churches? Is your church the same one your dad is pastor at? I would look at his motivations there too. I wouldn't be surprised if he wants to change because he can't pretend that he's a "good person" at your dad's church now he knows. Shame and hiding. Not facing his shame and his sins. Running like a child.

Tell him you'd rather stay at your current church. Tell him if he is serious about this M, he will attend with you regularly. See his reaction. If it is anything other than, "what ever you need babe, I will do" you will have your answer about what you mean to him.

Push it. Put up some boundaries. Test this new "goodness." I personally wouldn't trust it one bit.

WW/BW Dday July 2019. BH/WH- multiple EA's. Back at it again- bantering w the younger woman. Lied about blocking phone calls and deleted texts. Carried on with her. Financial infidelity again- who says you only cheat with lovers?

posts: 902   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8723145
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MIgander ( member #71285) posted at 7:14 PM on Monday, March 14th, 2022

Rereading your post, this jumped out at me:

I know you all think I am a victim, blind to the evilness that is my husband. I am salting everything because if he were on here sharing his side, he would be saying I abuse him because I shut him out and isolate myself, I ignore him, and all after I cheated on him. I am not ignoring your advice, I am just taking it all in carefully. The fact that my parents are not begging me to leave and pushing me to get divorced immediately should say a lot about the situation too.

You ignoring him and shutting him out is like a turtle retreating into its shell when a predator is attacking. It's a NORMAL AND NECESSARY SURVIVAL SKILL. You're not abusing him, you're reacting to his abuse in the fight, flight or freeze mode. Combination freeze and flight- turtling up and detaching.

To a smaller extent, my husband would do this when I was being verbally aggressive/abusive (yelling and losing my shit). Totally NORMAL and expected- being attacked, feeling unsafe, we flee from the aggressor.

The fact that my parents are not begging me to leave

What the ACTUAL FUCK??? Do they know the full truth? Do they know about the 3 men in one day? Do they know your husband required you to record your fucking strangers? Did they hear about how he would have you bring men to the house and fuck them while he was around? What did you actually tell them? I'm wondering if it was the full story. If it was, then, your parents ARE FUCKED UP. My mom would be over here with a UHaul so fast it would make your head spin (dad's dead- otherwise, see my earlier post about the gun and shovel). That's a whole level of fucked. Even if you only told him about your husband asking you to go out side the marriage for sex, that's enough on my end to encourage a friend to separate until they at least knew what they really wanted.

and all after I cheated on him

WHY WHY WHY are you still emphasizing this about yourself? This man TRAFFICKED you for his own pleasure and sick sense of security. He is using it as a justification for all the abuse he levels at you.

Think about it- what he's doing now, controlling his temper, being helpful in the house, are all the MINIMUM a spouse should expect. The whole "you cheated" thing is a get out of jail free card for him to use so he can excuse his nasty behavior towards you. Since he's treating you like a normal human being- hell what a basic level of civility one would expect from a ROOMMATE- he wants the participation trophy for joining the human race and being a moderately considerate human being.

His "improvements" may or may not be genuine. I would suggest testing them by setting a boundary and keeping it. Even one as small as not leaving your current church. See how he acts. If he throws the "but you had an affair card" you will know it's all a show and BULLSHIT.

Even if he genuinely WANTS to be better, he's not going to get better until he gets professional help. He won't know how to do it by himself. AND he'll only drag you through more abuse until he has done a considerable chunk of work on himself.

I'm not saying you have to D. If you're liking what you're seeing and reserving judgement, fine. Just know that your daughter is still exposed to a sick man who thinks it's ok to prostitute out a woman for his own sexual kinks. Would you want your daughter dating someone like that?

Until he's a safe person, you need to get out. Who knows, maybe he can change and be safe. He's NOT THERE NOW AND YOU NEED TO GET OUT. It's going to be YEARS of hard work before he's safe enough to share a home with.

[This message edited by MIgander at 7:19 PM, Monday, March 14th]

WW/BW Dday July 2019. BH/WH- multiple EA's. Back at it again- bantering w the younger woman. Lied about blocking phone calls and deleted texts. Carried on with her. Financial infidelity again- who says you only cheat with lovers?

posts: 902   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8723156
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TheEnd ( member #72213) posted at 10:20 PM on Monday, March 14th, 2022

Please read and re-read MIGander's post. It is spot on. This part really needed to be said pages ago:

Looking at your situation, the fact that you're seeing yourself as primarily a wayward spouse and not a victim of abuse shouts to how badly you've been gaslit in your life- first by your father and now by your husband. I won't refer to your husband as a betrayed. If he didn't like you sleeping with other men, he shouldn't have coerced you into it.

I simply don't see you as a wayward. You ARE and were the victim of abuse. If nothing else, please spend some time reframing your actions. You want to hope he'll change, fine. But try to look at his past actions as very real abuse and your response being that of a victim, not an asshole.

And while I hate assumptions on this board, how do you think he is going to feel when your daughter starts puberty and her own sexual awakening? Is he going to need to control that? How about when she (normally) starts detaching from her parents and Daddy no longer gets hero kibbles from her? How will he treat her then? Perhaps he will be fine but that man has serious control issues and a massive inferiority complex. Healthy adults struggle with teenagers pushing boundaries and withdrawing their adoration. Healthy adults lose their tempers and make mistakes. What about a man who DOES NOT LOSE when it comes to owning the women in his life?

Just food for thought.

posts: 281   ·   registered: Dec. 3rd, 2019
id 8723215
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 soapt (original poster member #79960) posted at 3:04 AM on Tuesday, March 15th, 2022

I wouldn't be at all surprised if he hasn't been reading this thread.

I would! Let me tell you why. I have gone to reddit with this "affair issue" a couple years ago. I didn't get this kind of response then as I am now, but I confessed to my husband that I went to online forums for after-affair-advice and he did not like that. Like it was another affair. I would definitely know if he was reading this stuff. Oh lordy, he would be devastated. In fact, the other day he asked me a question and I told him that I have responded to posts online about our shit, but I meant I did it back then, and he thought I meant I am doing it now (which I am but I'm not telling him that)! I heard him bawling in our room because he thought this. He never cries. He was devastated, seriously heartbroken, but he didn't lose his shit on me. He was triggered because it felt like another betrayal. It's real to him. I asked my IC about that today and she said that "seeking help is not betrayal, it is individualization." I agree. But I can't argue that with him, so for now, in the dark he stays.

Looking at your situation, the fact that you're seeing yourself as primarily a wayward spouse and not a victim of abuse shouts to how badly you've been gaslit in your life- first by your father and now by your husband.

Yeah, I guess I just want to own up to my own shit. I did honestly have a secret relationship and I met up with the guy for sex. I could have instead left my husband, or put my foot down and forced counseling or something else that wasn't so unhealthy. I do see how I barely belong here now. I have much bigger issues. Now, I really don't feel gaslit by my father, but I definitely do by my husband. One day I'll go into that with my IC when I'm not so focused on husband stuff.

If your dad is even slightly narc, you've likely grown up being used to be belittled, put down, ignored and gaslit. You likely had training in taking more responsibility for negative situations in your life than you were really owed.

If you listen to the audiobook or read the book "Attachments" by Tim Clinton, the part about the Avoidant Attachment style, my dad is exactly the "narcissistic" shade of the avoidant type. I am the "exiled" shade of the avoidant type. He also doesn't have a short fuse, doesn't live off drama, and you can reason with my dad. In this way I feel he is not your textbook narc. But this explains why he tried to "empathize" about losing someone he cares for with me - because he is not even capable of that empathy. I honestly wasn't that offended by it, just kind of eye-rolly. I know he means well and is doing his best. smile
Now about the taking responsibility for negative situations in my life, I would say yes, but I have yet to learn where I picked that up. Mom, dad, sister? TBD.

Have you started letting this leak in your family's church?

No and I don't plan to. I do not intend on airing out our dirty laundry for the sake of lighting a fire under anyone's ass. If anyone's ass should be lit it's mine. blush

It's the fact that you had to drive yourself into the shameful circumstances of fucking 3 guys in one day in order to get some physical touch from him... that's FUCKED.

YES girl. Yes it is. Fucking repulsive.

Remember what he did to you. This interlude of him being polite and helpful is like alligator tears from unremorseful serial cheaters. It's only going to last as long as it needs to. Once you're calmed down, he's going to go right back to his controlling abusive self. The real test of it would be you talking openly to him about separating.

I think you're right. My IC and I talked about this today too. I can tell he can sense I have one foot out the door and that's why he is on good behavior or whatever. Basically, she wants me to think about telling him "I have been enabling you to keep all these secrets and all this trauma. I love you, and I hear you. If you are not ready to walk into the fire with me, then I will do it alone. I'm dying to heal. If you want to heal, I'll do it with you, but if you're not willing to be authentic and true, I'm going to heal by myself." By this I mean going to some counseling and being truthful with everything, not just some of the stuff.

Why does he want to change churches? Is your church the same one your dad is pastor at?

Yes it is the church we met at, the one my dad is pastor of. Honestly my dad's church is sort of dying, and there are not really any people we can connect with. My husband hasn't taken the lead to go elsewhere because it would offend my family, they would see it as rejection. I feel the same way, so it's just kind of awkward. So my husband wants to try to alternate between my dad's and a new one.

You ignoring him and shutting him out is like a turtle retreating into its shell when a predator is attacking. It's a NORMAL AND NECESSARY SURVIVAL SKILL. You're not abusing him, you're reacting to his abuse in the fight, flight or freeze mode. Combination freeze and flight- turtling up and detaching.

To a smaller extent, my husband would do this when I was being verbally aggressive/abusive (yelling and losing my shit). Totally NORMAL and expected- being attacked, feeling unsafe, we flee from the aggressor.

Okay, thank you for saying this! This is exactly what I thought - a trauma response! My husband for sure does not see it this way. To him, I have done this since day 1 of our relationship.

What the ACTUAL FUCK??? Do they know the full truth? Do they know about the 3 men in one day? Do they know your husband required you to record your fucking strangers? Did they hear about how he would have you bring men to the house and fuck them while he was around? What did you actually tell them?

No they do not know the full truth. They know my husband had a fetish, coerced me to have sex with strangers in our home with him present, and I got fed up and cheated, and he has been verbally and emotionally abusive since, including threats of suicide and kicking me out, and actually kicking me out. They don't know nasty details and my IC agrees with me that they probably don't need to. They know enough for now, IMO.

My dad helped me write a letter to my husband for when I go, and offered to pay my lawyer's retainer so we can have a temporary custody arrangement, should we need one.

Until he's a safe person, you need to get out. Who knows, maybe he can change and be safe. He's NOT THERE NOW AND YOU NEED TO GET OUT. It's going to be YEARS of hard work before he's safe enough to share a home with.

I feel in my heart it is inevitable. My IC is working on a plan of what to say to my daughter and stepkids for when I go. We talk again Wednesday. She is going on vacation from April 1-13. I planned on leaving after my daughter's birthday which is coming up rapidly, and unfortunately, when my IC is unavailable. My daughter's birthday is a big reason why I'm sticking around at the moment.

how do you think he is going to feel when your daughter starts puberty and her own sexual awakening? Is he going to need to control that? How about when she (normally) starts detaching from her parents and Daddy no longer gets hero kibbles from her? How will he treat her then?

Great questions. From watching him with his now teenage daughters, he will feel rejected and abandoned and just let her live peacefully until there is a conflict, and he will handle the conflict with grace, but their interactions will decrease. He blames his ex for stealing them away from him, and while some of that is fact, he could have done more and still could! He will say he is always there for our daughter, but reality is he will give up on her just as he has with them. crying

posts: 64   ·   registered: Feb. 17th, 2022   ·   location: midwest
id 8723274
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nomudnolotus ( member #59431) posted at 8:55 AM on Tuesday, March 15th, 2022

I forgot. Another thing.

He keeps saying if I do these things for 2 weeks, 95% of our problems will go away:
1. Text him all day, complimenting him, telling him I am thinking of him, telling him what a massive dick he has.
2. Come home during the day to do sexual things multiple times a day "because I can't get enough of him".
3. Apologize for cheating in a big romantic way.

I have simply refused to do this. I am so stubborn, I won't give in. But is that stupid because what if he's right?

This man is a narcissist. Please go on youtube and watch some of the videos from various psychologists on their about narcissist's behaviour. Reading your thread is like watching the full blown narcissist script. You have trauma bonded with him. He is evil, he is an emotional vampire. If you were ever able to meet the bar, he would just raise it, again and again, you would never actually be able to meet it.

He is trying to suck you back in right now, but none of that is real, it won't last. He doesn't want to lose his supply. Please please, don't fall for it.

What you've described, he's going through the four stages that narcissist go through in a relationship over and over again.
Idealize > Devalue > Discard > Hoover/Love Bomb

You will never be enough, nothing you do will ever be enough. This is NOT on you. It's because all his value comes from external sources. He's like a big empty pool with a giant hole in the bottom. You can fill it with water, but it just leaks out the giant hole. He just keeps sucking the life and joy and spark out of you.

Please please get away from this man, keep going to therapy. Please, if you can, get your daughter away from this man if at all possible.

posts: 258   ·   registered: Jun. 30th, 2017
id 8723310
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 soapt (original poster member #79960) posted at 10:29 PM on Tuesday, March 15th, 2022

If you were ever able to meet the bar, he would just raise it, again and again, you would never actually be able to meet it.

I think I've internally felt this for a long time!

He is trying to suck you back in right now, but none of that is real, it won't last. He doesn't want to lose his supply. Please please, don't fall for it.

I am becoming increasingly more aware of his shenanigans and I'm kinda just playing the part for now.

Please please get away from this man, keep going to therapy. Please, if you can, get your daughter away from this man if at all possible.

I want to.

So my daughter's birthday is in the beginning of April. Shouldn't I wait to leave after that? And shouldn't I have a lawyer in place so we have a temporary custody arrangement?

I looked again in some old conversations from when our relationship was just under a year old. There was an instance where my husband (BF) was extremely hurt and jealous because he saw me checking out some guy, like up and down. I honestly probably did do that, and at the time I was 18 so I had no idea how relationships worked so the jealous thing seemed like it could be normal. But he was seriously upset and questioning everything. "Do I have your heart? What do you think about when I'm not around????? How can I trust you???" I reassured him in many different ways after this and then I told him "I didn't want to convince you I loved you, I was just loving you." Hindsight, red flags everywhere. This was a jealousy I could not alleviate for him. Just so disappointing. I really have loved him and I feel betrayed that this poison crept in. crying

[This message edited by soapt at 11:01 PM, Tuesday, March 15th]

posts: 64   ·   registered: Feb. 17th, 2022   ·   location: midwest
id 8723429
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DoinBettr ( member #71209) posted at 12:31 AM on Wednesday, March 16th, 2022

my husband (BF) was extremely hurt and jealous because he saw me checking out some guy, like up and down. I honestly probably did do that, and at the time I was 18 so I had no idea how relationships worked so the jealous thing seemed like it could be normal.


He was a 27 year old man, dating the pastor's daughter. The pastor quickly became BFFs with the bf who was looking for a second marriage and considered an 18 year old girl.
I don't understand how you don't see the problems with how your relationship started. I think your husband was a bit predatory when you were younger. I married a woman older than me and often dated older women. 5 years, sure. 10, he doesn't even know your favorite bands.
Lets do something. Put yourself in your husband's position when he first started dating you and reverse the roles. I bet you will see a lot wrong with the situation you missed the first time. I think your dad was so excited to get someone who went to his church interested in his daughter. So he was going to retain his connection to his daughter and have minor control of her married life. As a narcissist he would be building his perfect attention/control cocoon.
I do think your parents are second guessing a lot of what you are saying. I also question why your husband is acting so good. It is like he is suddenly reading how serious you are. I would not be surprised if he found out you post here. It would explain why the sudden change in heart as he sees how everyone is calling him a monster. I question if he looked it up on Reddit instead and saw that page. It has more aggressive posters, who would show neither of you mercy, like they moderate here.
Don't be afraid of him. You only have 3-4 weeks left. You can do this. I also doubt your husband is going to try to keep your daughter from you. It sounds like his main concern with his exwife was to get out and setup his next marriage. He will find that harder with your daughter around. Just like he found it harder with his past marriage. Ask for 50/50 and don't go out of your way to enforce it. Usually you have to involve the courts if you want more than 50/50. Plus, this will keep him on the hook for child support in equal parts. Plus this won't give him a chance to play the whole, she cheated, then tried to take away my daughter, victim card.
Keep your anger engaged. Realize you need to push away your husband and become an amazing mom and woman. Realize a large portion of the business works because you work hard. It sounds like you have to coerce your husband to participate. That shows how he isn't even engaged on a provider level. You will be just fine and can make this work. I know teenage mothers who started off with almost nothing who have their life together. You are doing just fine.
You can do this. Everyone here is seeing you getting more sure of yourself everyday.

posts: 715   ·   registered: Aug. 7th, 2019   ·   location: Midwest
id 8723452
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nomudnolotus ( member #59431) posted at 3:34 AM on Wednesday, March 16th, 2022

I looked again in some old conversations from when our relationship was just under a year old. There was an instance where my husband (BF) was extremely hurt and jealous because he saw me checking out some guy, like up and down. I honestly probably did do that, and at the time I was 18 so I had no idea how relationships worked so the jealous thing seemed like it could be normal. But he was seriously upset and questioning everything. "Do I have your heart? What do you think about when I'm not around????? How can I trust you???" I reassured him in many different ways after this and then I told him "I didn't want to convince you I loved you, I was just loving you." Hindsight, red flags everywhere. This was a jealousy I could not alleviate for him. Just so disappointing. I really have loved him and I feel betrayed that this poison crept in. crying

]

I was in a relationship with a narcissist. This is their behaviour, the whole "do I have your heart, what do you think about when I'm not around, I can't trust you"

This is the way they talk, you were 18 years old, and you looked at a guy, this is not a normal reaction to that. Like he could have said "hey it bothers me when I see you clearly looking at other man, please don't do that."

That would be a normal reaction to that situation.

I can see waiting till your daughter's birthday, but not much longer than that.

I also think your husband is reading here. You think he's not because of his past reaction. But, he might just realize that won't work this time, so he's trying to nice you back.

Look at how much he's manipulated you in the past, he's a master at it.

He doesn't trust you, he most likely checks everything you do. I would almost bet money on the fact that he's reading here. He is seeing how everyone is telling you how abusive he is, and trying to be something different until he can get you back in the place that he wants you.

It sadly sounds like from your foo, that you don't really know what normal interactions with your spouse should even look like. I hope you explore this with your therapist. I hope you heal from this man, and get to someday find out what an honest loving relationship looks like.

posts: 258   ·   registered: Jun. 30th, 2017
id 8723483
mad1

 soapt (original poster member #79960) posted at 10:47 PM on Thursday, March 17th, 2022

VENTING Today! mad

-------------------------------------------------------------

Welp. Last night my husband calmly reminded me that he is "trying" and I am not.

He went on and on and on about how unwanted he feels. Each time he looks at me, he sees AG's um...stuff...on my eyebrow. When he looks at my butt, he thinks to himself "that's not mine, that's SC's." He said I haven't even had sex with him as much as I have with AG so far this year. He's not wrong, but he really doesn't get why. Edit: Let me clarify though, I only met with AG twice in January and that's when the shit really hit the fan. Read back in older posts for more clarification.

Anyway, during his little rant, he told me that he is doing so well not yelling at me and not being aggressive. He actually said that. Then he said I should be loving and affectionate toward him, I should be all over him making him feel special, trying to have sex with him all the time, but I'm not even doing that. But he is trying....by not being aggressive. He said inside he feels like screaming. I asked him if he wanted to unleash on me right now, and he said yes, but he knows I need him to be calm. He said it's the same thing. He's trying for me, and I'm not trying for him.

He says I'm kind of weird because in the sports world, coaches yell at their players all the time. look Um...what? He's said this coach-yelling thing a few other times to me and when he does, inside I'm like "how is that like this?" I have just been nodding along with his bullshit. There's no point to argue with him. Anytime I make a fair point in any argument he goes "There you go, you have to have the last word. You win. Good job. Was it worth it?" So I just agreed that I'm just sensitive. mad

I have a meeting with a new lawyer on Monday, right after my IC session. We'll see what she says about separation and custody.

I have a bag packed with 4 days of clothes for me and my daughter, along with essential toiletries. This is just in case I need to make a quick getaway, or if I get locked out of the house again. If this happens, I will go straight to my parents' house and my husband will have no one to blame but himself. This is actually the best case scenario for me (rather than having a sit-down with him or writing a letter that I'm moving out).

barf

[This message edited by soapt at 10:50 PM, Thursday, March 17th]

posts: 64   ·   registered: Feb. 17th, 2022   ·   location: midwest
id 8723837
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nomudnolotus ( member #59431) posted at 11:38 PM on Thursday, March 17th, 2022

There you go, you have to have the last word. You win. Good job. Was it worth it?"

I heard this every single time I had a thought that was not in complete agreement with my narcissist

I always said there is no winning, this is a relationship, we should both be working to understand each other. And that crap about him needing you to crawl all over him. That is garbage and not normal. This is the "now you owe me" tactic of a narcissist

It sounds like you're doing really well. Not engaging in his crazy is the very best thing you can do. It's good that you have a go bag packed for you and your daughter.

The coach thing is ridiculous. That is a sport team, you are his wife. There is no comparison.

You should vent as much as you need to. I think it's really hard when you've lived with this craziness and instability for so long to realize it's not normal. This is not what a marriage should look like. Again, I encourage you to watch some of the videos on you tube, Dr. Les Carter is really good, especially 8 Tactics Narcissists Use To "Train" You To Comply.

posts: 258   ·   registered: Jun. 30th, 2017
id 8723845
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MIgander ( member #71285) posted at 3:52 PM on Friday, March 18th, 2022

Hah, the coach thing I can relate to. My BH would talk down to me, ordering me around like people at work, and when I said, "I'm not one of your coworkers. I am your WIFE!" he would shrug and say he treats everyone at work like that and it's ok, he didn't see why it was a problem for me when he was asking me to do basic stuff around the house duh .

Yeah, total crock of shit that. And, shitty coaches yell in demeaning tones like he does. Good coaches yell encouragement when they're spurring their players on to greater efforts. Good coaches yell things like, "Push it! You're doing great! You can do this! You've got more in you, I know it!!" Bad coaches yell things like, "Come on, you can do better than that! I thought we worked on this is practice! This again??! You've got to be kidding me!"

You husband is a crap coach.

And you "should" be all over him and "making him feel" is total bull shit. You're not his emotional safety blanket. You're not responsible for how he "feels."

If this man had an ounce of empathy or understanding, he would know that there's no way a woman willingly or enthusiastically sleeps with a man who treats him like you do.

He's a narc.

By the way, my narc dad would tell my mom she was yelling and therefore unreasonable. He would point out that he was the calm one and therefore the one who was "right." Only, he was yelling too. We could hear all of their argument behind the slammed door- his side and hers. Narcs are so blind to themselves. Maybe your husband wasn't using vile language with you, but he was still being aggressive. Narcs also are blind to what others are doing for their benefit.

It's like the limbo bar in reverse. It's never enough mad .

So take your "unsatisfactory" self out the door. You'll never satisfy him, and that is a GOOD THING.

Sadly, he'll never know that to be satisfied in others, you need to first be satisfied in yourself.

WW/BW Dday July 2019. BH/WH- multiple EA's. Back at it again- bantering w the younger woman. Lied about blocking phone calls and deleted texts. Carried on with her. Financial infidelity again- who says you only cheat with lovers?

posts: 902   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8724057
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 5:21 PM on Friday, March 18th, 2022

When he looks at my butt, he thinks to himself "that's not mine,

This right here says it all.

He sees your body as HIS.

He sees you as a piece of property.

Not as a woman. Not as his wife. Hell,not even as a human being.

You are an object. A possession.

Fuck ALL of that.

Your ass is YOUR ass.

He has treated you as though you belong to him,therefore he can use you as you see fit.

That little conversation tells you all you need to know. He hasn't changed at all. He isn't even working on changing. Because..


He said inside he feels like screaming. I asked him if he wanted to unleash on me right now, and he said yes, but he knows I need him to be calm.

Inside he is still the same abuser. He's wearing a mask for outward appearances. He's simply playing another game with you.

posts: 4874   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8724106
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