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Wayward Side :
W post: Now I am finally the one contemplating divorce.

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 soapt (original poster member #79960) posted at 9:46 PM on Thursday, March 3rd, 2022

I called the hotline and talked with a lovely woman who listened and explained a lot of what's happening. A lot like what you all said but more detailed and psychological.

She gave me a number to call for next steps. I left a message so she will call me tomorrow between 10-12 when I'm not home.

I have decided that I cannot stay in this marriage, but I don't believe leaving before our business is stable again is a good plan for me.

Currently my husband is on cloud nine, very happy with me. He is in a better mood and whatnot but I know it is temporary. It's ironic because this morning he told me he loves me "being like this" but he knows it won't last so he is just enjoying it while he can. BTW I am kind of surprising myself at the fact that I see how backwards that statement is.

Something I learned today is that in a marriage there is only one abuser. I question myself all the time if I am abusive, but guess what. I would be horrified if my daughter married a man with my husband's tendencies.

I also learned that what's happened to me is a form of sexual coercion. It's nice to put a name to it is all.

Because I do not feel that right now is the time to end this relationship due to the nature of our finances, I feel it is necessary to keep up my wifely duties. I know it's fake and doesn't make sense to everyone, but if it means that he will be motivated to help me fix our company then I will keep it up. And it will give me time to sort out a plan. A lot of lives will change so I do want to be strategic about this.

By the way I am very sad. I might seem walled off now or matter of factly, but I am sad for him. He is a human, a beloved child of God, someone who does deserve love. He is an abused young boy deep inside. It's just that I feel responsible for his every need, but he has abused my empathy and love and willingness to make him happy, and that is not loving me. That is not an equal relationship. Sighhhhhh yeah I cry quite a lot about this these days.

posts: 63   ·   registered: Feb. 17th, 2022   ·   location: midwest
id 8720986
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 soapt (original poster member #79960) posted at 12:06 AM on Saturday, March 5th, 2022

Okayyyy so my counselor agrees that I need to at least separate. She says to sneakily move some of my things into a secret apartment that he doesn't know of. When I do this, I should write a letter to him so I can stay safe. She says I am in a crisis so this takes priority over anything having to do with the business or anything else.

Gonna go to my niece's birthday party Sunday, speak with the Crisis Intervention Center worker Monday, and see what's next. I am going to speak with my parents but I don't know when. I know I will before I give my husband the letter. There are no real options for a living situation here so I may have to stay with them, or my sister and her husband. For a while.

I don't know how I let this become my life. barf

posts: 63   ·   registered: Feb. 17th, 2022   ·   location: midwest
id 8721311
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TheEnd ( member #72213) posted at 10:46 AM on Saturday, March 5th, 2022

It sounds like you are getting good advice and building a support system. Go you!

I'm sure it's scary and overwhelming but you're doing just fine. One foot in front of the other and all that.

You're taking the right steps for a better future for you and your daughter. No point in looking back, keep moving forward.

posts: 249   ·   registered: Dec. 3rd, 2019
id 8721350
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 soapt (original poster member #79960) posted at 10:21 PM on Saturday, March 5th, 2022

I spoke with my parents. I was shaking like a leaf and felt like throwing up. My mom wept. My dad had no idea. My mom could see I was stressed but never knew why.

Our game plan is for me to give my husband a list of accounts receivables and payables so he can come up with a plan of what to do business-wise, since he is willing to do that already. We will sell a bunch of jobs to cover what we owe and possibly come out ahead. Then I will separate and somehow convince my husband to work with me as business partners only. I will tell him to heal by himself whatever that means and I will heal apart from him too, and maybe there will be a hope for reconciliation, without making promises. I will stay at my parents' house for awhile.

Shit's getting real.

[This message edited by soapt at 10:22 PM, Saturday, March 5th]

posts: 63   ·   registered: Feb. 17th, 2022   ·   location: midwest
id 8721392
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emergent8 ( member #58189) posted at 2:33 AM on Sunday, March 6th, 2022

I’m so glad you’re taking steps towards safety and that you have a supportive family. I truly believe this is the best thing for you. Please stay safe.

Me: BS, Him: WS. Mid-late 30s.
Together 15 years, married 6 (11 m at D-Day).
D-Day: Feb 2017 (8 m PA with married COW).
5 years (and two toddlers) into R. Happy.

posts: 988   ·   registered: Apr. 7th, 2017
id 8721405
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MIgander ( member #71285) posted at 2:52 PM on Monday, March 7th, 2022

How are you today soapt?

WW/BW Dday July 2019. BH/WH- multiple EA's. Back at it again- bantering w the younger woman. Lied about blocking phone calls and deleted texts. Carried on with her. Financial infidelity again- who says you only cheat with lovers?

posts: 857   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8721550
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 3:41 PM on Monday, March 7th, 2022

You need to have a back up plan. You can't control what he does. He may not work with you in the business,and he may not agree with anything you are hoping he will. He may fight you every step of the way,and make this very difficult. And,considering the things you have said about him,he will do just that.

posts: 4671   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8721558
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 soapt (original poster member #79960) posted at 5:40 PM on Monday, March 7th, 2022

How are you today soapt?

Thanks for asking MIgander. I am okay. Still, I have small breakdowns every day. To me these tearful moments mean I'm grieving something that never was.

We fought all weekend. My husband had ridiculous expectations. He left to go to our niece's birthday party 2 hours away and I stayed home because I wanted to get a serious work project done. I did get it done too! Anyway he didn't trust me at home alone even though we have Ring, and he tracks my location on Life360. So I went out to get coffee and a few groceries when he was gone. He called me, and was accusing me of cheating because I left the house without telling him. I honestly should have seen that coming, so a mistake on my part. He continued to accuse me of crap and I reacted big time. I was livid and I was speaking disrespectful right back, I was very defensive. I felt like I was going crazy and I even said that to him. He was in the car with our daughter too. I had to remind him to not yell in front of her. He chilled for a bit but went right back to being an ass. At least he wasn't swearing. But she was absolutely mad and hurt about this. More reminders of how badly I need to leave.

Last night while they were gone, I went through old love letters, notes and conversations between BH. I found a conversation from early on where he was jealous about me talking about some guy's eye color. He was a visitor from a church event. The gist was that BH was hurt that I was the only one in our group (our friends at church) who remembered that this dude's eyes were green. This made him question my loyalty. He said he wonders if he truly has my heart. I told him he did, and I simply am attentive to detail and can recall weird details easily. Also this guy had a 2 hour conversation with my parents in my family's kitchen while I was there and the rest of them were not there. My dad was the pastor BTW. At the time I thought BH might be right, it made me question myself. I felt horribly misunderstood but also guilty. Still dont know for sure but I see now that this reaction could have been a red flag. This same behavior has not changed one bit. And that was 13 years ago.

I'm about to speak with my counselor about the conversation with my parents. I'll check in later.

Thanks for your continued support!

posts: 63   ·   registered: Feb. 17th, 2022   ·   location: midwest
id 8721586
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MIgander ( member #71285) posted at 5:48 PM on Monday, March 7th, 2022

Hi soapt,

I'm glad you got time apart and not at all surprised your husband blew up. Mine did too when I wouldn't let him know where I was 24/7 after DDay. Your situation is a bit different though as he is controlling you all the time- before and after your "affair."

I'm sorry he was arguing and swearing in front of your child. You leaving is the best thing you can do at the moment- no one deserves to be talked to that way and she is DEFINITELY absorbing this. You leaving will send a strong signal to her that a man is not to treat a woman this way. Also, she will know that even if she gets into trouble in her life, she can find the strength to pull her self out of it. Just like her mom did.

As for the conversation with your parents and the whole eye color thing, what you noticed was normal. You husband over reacted there. Maybe talk about how you doubted yourself and blamed yourself? I mean, eye color is such a little thing and you were "chaperoned" by your parents. It seems like early on your husband couldn't even handle inane social interactions well. It also seems that you may have enabled it by accepting his criticism as valid.

Keep strong, each post I hear your confidence increasing. You're getting the help you need and you're going to do this. You can find the life you deserve and the home your daughter needs.

WW/BW Dday July 2019. BH/WH- multiple EA's. Back at it again- bantering w the younger woman. Lied about blocking phone calls and deleted texts. Carried on with her. Financial infidelity again- who says you only cheat with lovers?

posts: 857   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8721589
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DoinBettr ( member #71209) posted at 8:28 PM on Monday, March 7th, 2022

I am also glad you are getting away.
You might want to start ignoring your husband's attempts to accuse you of cheating.
When he says, "Why are you here?"
You respond with the groceries comment. Then when he starts accusing you of cheating, you simply tell him he needs to act like an adult and accept sometimes an answer is an answer. He will up the anti again and again to get you to respond. He probably likes the drama. It makes him feel like you are invested in his emotions.
It is fine to just leave his calls unanswered until you see him in person. He will be freaking out, like he was last time, but you can't fix his control issues. No matter how much you say to him, he is going to be reacting badly.
Now, to those love letters. You shouldn't have read those now. That is going to push you to see some of the good in the marriage in the past. You need to keep pushing to pull away and get your own life started away from his control. Once you get that space, then give it a couple of weeks before going through those love letters.
Right now, you need the anger. It will drive you to get away and be safe. Telling your parents was also a good idea. It means you now have support in leaving. Even just the emotional support encase you question how bad things are. Remember, you aren't going to be able to keep your husband in the dark about everything very long now. He is going to get wise if he is watching you as closely as it sounds.
Good luck. Stay strong. Stop reading those letters. Hold onto your anger as it drives a wedge for you to get back to being someone you love and respect.

posts: 707   ·   registered: Aug. 7th, 2019   ·   location: Midwest
id 8721618
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 soapt (original poster member #79960) posted at 10:57 PM on Monday, March 7th, 2022

Also, she will know that even if she gets into trouble in her life, she can find the strength to pull her self out of it. Just like her mom did.

My hope with that is that IF that happens, she will also feel safe to talk to me. I never felt safe to talk to my parents when I began dating my future husband. If I had felt safe to ask for advice and help, I could have came to them with that "green eyed guy" dilemma and maybe found strength to prevent the abuse right then and there. I just didn't see it by myself! I am so motivated to have a close relationship with my daughter so she never feels like she can't come to me for help with stupid boys.


It makes him feel like you are invested in his emotions.

YES! One of the things I shot at him yesterday when I was heated was that I have to manage his feelings. Man that was a mistake. look

Now, to those love letters. You shouldn't have read those now. That is going to push you to see some of the good in the marriage in the past.

I appreciate the wisdom there, I know it was risky. However, my motive in doing this was not to reminisce, it was to search for red flags that I was sure to have missed while dating. Sure enough, I found a few, and one was the green eyed guy story. I dove into this with my counselor today and she agreed it was absolutely a red flag. She asked why I didn't get scared away from that. We peeled it apart together and figured out that I grew up with an avoidant attachment, feeling like I had to rescue my younger siblings, feeling like a burden, and things of that nature.

posts: 63   ·   registered: Feb. 17th, 2022   ·   location: midwest
id 8721643
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 soapt (original poster member #79960) posted at 6:05 PM on Tuesday, March 8th, 2022

CAN I GET A LITTLE HELP WITH THIS? Further down is a conversation between me and BH. Since I am bonded to him, I am on the fence. I mean I can see more clearly but like I said, the bond is there.

One of the most raw and confrontational conversations with my husband happened last night. I can't remember everything because we talked for hours into the night. I recognize this may be another part of the cycle. It is still confusing because I feel better, which is not normal. Usually I feel worse or the same.

I basically had a shell-like attitude. Very cold and not loving or inviting. So did he. He wasn't yelling but he was loud if that makes sense.

I guess it might have been a last ditch effort from me to get him to open his eyes.

First, I shared my feelings on his suicide threats, which he denied, which I boldly reminded him he just did it two days ago! And I said "Fuck you!" (I never say that) and cried. He saw that I was serious and apologized. Then he said that maybe he really was feeling those thoughts because he feels he is at the end of his ropes and he is feeling this way. So basically the feelings of suicide are legit. I told him to stop threatening it when we fight because it's manipulative and controlling.

I also shared that one of those 3 guys who I slept with in 1 day felt almost like rape. It was actual rape in the literal sense. *Now, I have never been raped like "Law & Order SVU sense", so I apologize if saying that triggers anyone who has been preyed on in that way.* Anyway, that broke him. He shed his tough shell and laid on top of my chest, kissed me, apologized profusely and said he had no idea it was that bad. He said if I had yelled out for him that he would have came in and beat the guy's ass. I grumbled at him "Instead you took videos." I could tell that hit him deep and made him feel disgusting. He asked why I never told him and I said I did, only I didn't use the word "rape" and I told him when I did, that he provided no comfort so I kept my pain to myself. I told him that this guy is the exact same as alllll the others, but this one just happened to physically hurt. He kept apologizing. I did not let my walls down because, well, like really, it took me saying the word rape to get him to listen? Damn. I feel so understood now, hunny. sad

This morning he made me breakfast and was nice and caring. I am obviously still on guard but I was nice and thankful. God this sucks. We are both so stubborn.

Later he texted me the following:
"I'm so sorry I didn't treat you as special as you are. I really do think you're special, I know it doesn't make sense but...
1. Seriously wouldn't have married you if I didn't think you were something special. I know you know that was true. I was never even going to date again.
2. The whole reason this cheating has been so complicated and deep to overcome is because I genuinely think you're special. You're not just some girl to me.
I really want you to know that about yourself, your man still thinks you're super special."

I replied:
"Thanks for saying that. I think it doesn't make sense because it really doesn't make sense. crying "

He responded:
"It's about me and my flaws that you don't feel that way. You haven't been treated to the level you are. You are super special. I will always think that."

Okay so then I texted him a long apology for cheating with AP, more wordy and detailed than I have before, and no excuses. It was long so I'll spare you.

And he replied:
"You don't need to feel bad. I didn't take care of you and it resulted with you having unmet needs. You didn't feel loved, cared for, protected and probably more things. I chose to not protect and take care for the most important person to me. This is on me, not you."

While that sounds nice, and basically what I've wanted to hear for many many years, I simply can't trust him. It doesn't line up. I'll ask my IC about this tomorrow too. I had this whole conversation while knowing that my parents know all this, and I am making plans to move out. I can't help but feel this is such utter betrayal. I just do.

posts: 63   ·   registered: Feb. 17th, 2022   ·   location: midwest
id 8721791
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MIgander ( member #71285) posted at 6:21 PM on Tuesday, March 8th, 2022

Hi Soapt,

Look, it's nice that he's saying the words now. It's nice that maybe he's starting to realize what an abusive shitty excuse for a human being he's been to his "special" wife. Good for him. Maybe he can start working on where he lost his humanity and try to get some of it back.

However, I would salt all of that with how it took extreme measures- your impending separation and the fact that you really were raped by all 3 of these guys. You were raped in the way that your husband coerced you into unwanted sex. Even if you got to "pick your rapist," you would NOT have been in that situation if it weren't put there by your husband in the first place. Took him hearing that truth to understand just what he did to you. Good for you on being firm and good on you for being honest.

Still, all his, "so sorry, you're so special" is really too little too late. I know how manipulation works. I was a manipulator- say just what they want to hear, and only as much as they need, so you can get what you want out of them. Easiest tactic in the book. He may think he means the things he's saying, but words are cheap. He's put about $1trillion of hurt, pain, shame and abuse on you. His words may sound like a million bucks right now, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to what his actions have cost you over the years.

It sounds like you're not going to be so easily bought by his crocodile tears and grand speeches.

Good on him that he finally sees how special you are. Too bad he didn't treat you like you were even a human being for the entirety of your relationship. Just because he says he sees your specialness doesn't mean you owe him a damn thing. Hell, a mere acquaintance would be able to acknowledge you're special.

WW/BW Dday July 2019. BH/WH- multiple EA's. Back at it again- bantering w the younger woman. Lied about blocking phone calls and deleted texts. Carried on with her. Financial infidelity again- who says you only cheat with lovers?

posts: 857   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8721798
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 soapt (original poster member #79960) posted at 6:22 PM on Tuesday, March 8th, 2022

I forgot. Another thing.

He keeps saying if I do these things for 2 weeks, 95% of our problems will go away:
1. Text him all day, complimenting him, telling him I am thinking of him, telling him what a massive dick he has.
2. Come home during the day to do sexual things multiple times a day "because I can't get enough of him".
3. Apologize for cheating in a big romantic way.

I have simply refused to do this. I am so stubborn, I won't give in. But is that stupid because what if he's right?

posts: 63   ·   registered: Feb. 17th, 2022   ·   location: midwest
id 8721799
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 soapt (original poster member #79960) posted at 6:33 PM on Tuesday, March 8th, 2022

Whoa quick reply MIgander!

It sounds like you're not going to be so easily bought by his crocodile tears and grand speeches....Too bad he didn't treat you like you were even a human being for the entirety of your relationship.

Yeah I think so crying

His words may sound like a million bucks right now, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to what his actions have cost you over the years.

Your reply to my whole post was what I was looking for. That helps a ton. Just reminding me of what doesn't add up.

Still, I feel horrible. <-I'll work with IC on this one too.

Thank you!

posts: 63   ·   registered: Feb. 17th, 2022   ·   location: midwest
id 8721802
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MIgander ( member #71285) posted at 6:45 PM on Tuesday, March 8th, 2022

What the hell? He still wants to control you even more. So let's take it point by point:

1. He wants you to waste your time sending him lavish complimentary texts. Waste your mental/emotional energy so he can feed off it like a vampire. Be his source of validation, his source of worth through confirming his control over your thoughts and mind.
2. Upend your plans and rearrange your schedule so you can sexually service him at his whims. Be his fembot fuck machine. Prove to him that he still owns your body and can dispose of it as HE wills.
3. Put on a big show to further kiss his ass for cheating on him with the man he told you to fuck. Put on a grand show so he can be confirmed as master of your universe and the god you worship.

WHAT THE FUCK.

In a normal world, with a "normal" *HAH* affair, the BH demands are:
1. Text me continually with updates on your whereabouts so I know you're where you say you're going to be (trust building/reassurance)
2. Come home to me every night and spend time with me. Hold me, listen to me, tell me it's going to be all right- demonstrate I am important to you and this M still means something to you. Put the energy you put into the affair back into the marriage and demonstrate how hard you're willing to work for us. (hysterical bonding here too, if BS needs it)
3. Demonstrate your remorse to me in a deeply meaningful and sacrificial way to show that you're understanding the depth of BS hurt and that the depth your remorse matches that. (atonement)

What's weird is his demands, if taken at face value, look like an immature version of what a newly betrayed spouse wants and needs to begin to stem the bleed-out from the affair. I think some BH's can relate to the sentiment of needing their wife to build them back up with compliments on their sexual equipment and prowess. I think BS's in general want to be on your mind moment by moment each day. They want that safe feeling of knowing you come home to them because you value them and want to spend time with them and make it right with them. They want a concrete reminder of your remorse in the form of a gift or a memorable time so they can physically hold on to something that says they're of value to you.

What is different with your husband is he has shown himself to be extremely abusive. He has shown himself to be at least BPD (look it up, it is a thing and really, he checks the boxes from what I've seen from doctors talks... NOT a dx, but I have a strong suspicion he is). He is unstable, selfish, cruel, ruthless and dangerous. In that context of his character, these demands are more of the same you've been manipulated throughout your marriage.

He wants you back under his control. Once you've "proven" he's still king of your castle, then he might deign to make it "all right" with him.

95% of your problems won't go away until HE does. I don't often say or think this, but in this case, you've got 99 problems and your abuser is each one of them.

WW/BW Dday July 2019. BH/WH- multiple EA's. Back at it again- bantering w the younger woman. Lied about blocking phone calls and deleted texts. Carried on with her. Financial infidelity again- who says you only cheat with lovers?

posts: 857   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8721806
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MIgander ( member #71285) posted at 6:47 PM on Tuesday, March 8th, 2022

yeah, I kind of sit on the board during the day. Work is pretty slow right now, hah.

ETA: I was also heavily abused as a child by my sister. Emotionally, physically abused. Degraded on a daily basis by someone I could not escape from. Even after I nearly strangled her to death it didn't stop. So your situation, while different, is similar enough to generate a huge response.

Dad had an A on my mom with a family friend under her nose. Belittled and emotionally abused her all their marriage.

Also had a BH in an EA with a side of financial and emotional abuse who also took a LONG time to get to place of accountability for his actions in our marriage. Grace of God, it's coming along.

So yeah, with a past like mine, your situation hits very close to home.

[This message edited by MIgander at 6:50 PM, Tuesday, March 8th]

WW/BW Dday July 2019. BH/WH- multiple EA's. Back at it again- bantering w the younger woman. Lied about blocking phone calls and deleted texts. Carried on with her. Financial infidelity again- who says you only cheat with lovers?

posts: 857   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8721808
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DoinBettr ( member #71209) posted at 1:39 AM on Wednesday, March 9th, 2022

He keeps saying if I do these things for 2 weeks, 95% of our problems will go away:
1. Text him all day, complimenting him, telling him I am thinking of him, telling him what a massive dick he has.
2. Come home during the day to do sexual things multiple times a day "because I can't get enough of him".
3. Apologize for cheating in a big romantic way.


Yeah. I can see these things if he wasn't the one making you go out and sleep with other men.
I still think he has an emotional issue, inferiority complex. That is why he wants to drag you down, while telling you that you are special.
He isn't trying to fix this marriage.
When he heard how terrible things were and how bad of shape your marriage was, he should have been dragging you to MC.
He should be apologizing for accusing you of cheating again when he is the one driving you that way.
I bet he also watches some really messed up porn that is also fueling his desires right now.
You need to find your anger and fire like I said before and hold onto it. If this is how he acts with a little cold shoulder he might become 50% decent with a week of this. Use that to drive your wedge. Think about how good you feel. If you had this for more than a day you might not cry and question your life decisions every night.
You deserve to feel safe in your marriage. Do you feel safe? If not, then keep planning that exit and work that way.

posts: 707   ·   registered: Aug. 7th, 2019   ·   location: Midwest
id 8721924
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 soapt (original poster member #79960) posted at 4:37 AM on Wednesday, March 9th, 2022

Before responding to those, I'm just quickly popping on to say my husband is not sleeping in our bed. I went in our older kid's bedroom to ask him why, and he quietly said he isn't going to disturb my sleep, he doesn't want to make me afraid and until I feel safe, he will keep sleeping in other rooms. He even said "I'll stay out of bed until you say it's safe. Maybe it'll take months or maybe I never will because maybe I blew it. Ball's in your court, I want you to feel safe."

I asked if he wanted to split up and he said that no part of him wants that and that I am the best thing that ever happened to him. I told him no matter what he says or does I will never believe that. I said I don't feel human, I dont know what I feel and I need to think about this stuff. And now I am in bed alone.

I want to trust him so badly. I want his strength and leadership (which is there but has been missing). But I feel in my heart that this is irreparable, on both our ends.

posts: 63   ·   registered: Feb. 17th, 2022   ·   location: midwest
id 8721950
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annb ( member #22386) posted at 11:00 AM on Wednesday, March 9th, 2022

Gently, soapt, your husband is a sick, twisted, manipulative manchild.

Please continue with your plans to move forward. He's playing some sick mind games with you and I hope you are able to see right through them.

Listen to the members here who have been walking you through the process of getting away from this very ill controlling man. sad

[This message edited by annb at 11:03 AM, Wednesday, March 9th]

posts: 11614   ·   registered: Jan. 10th, 2009   ·   location: Northeast
id 8721965
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