SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm so sorry. You already know the answer to your question. No, you're not overreacting. Yes, she is cheating. Looks and sex life have nothing to do with why they cheat. Again, I'm so sorry.

Ithink she is overwhelmed nd that her boss is taking advantage of this.

Unfortunately, this is something most of us here if not all have done...make excuses for the betrayer, blame the other partner. Whether or not he took advantage of her doesn't change the fact that SHE CHOSE to be with him. SHE made the vows to be faithful to you. Stay strong and keep posting. This site literally saved my life many years ago.

If you are looking for guidance on how to resolve this with her if she has been unfaithful you will not receive much guidance here. Most will simply advise to run and D.

I disagree with the post above. There are many people here who can give you advice (most already have) on how to get to the truth and what to do with it. A lot of whether or not your marriage can be saved will depend on her. If you go to the reconciliation forum you will find couples that have stayed together and made things work. It didn't for me but I believe when both partners want to work at it, it's possible. Don't give up, but open your eyes to the possibility that she may not to want to give him up.

I have yet to find a smoking gun.

Yes, you have. If the smoking gun had been a real gun you'd be shot. I'm so sorry. Denial is common and expected. But facing the reality of the situation is what is healthiest for you. Some won't say she is cheating but I will say it. I've been there. Clues right in front of me. I ignored them. I let him gaslight me. I let him stonewall me and make me feel guilty for even questioning him. The 'business trips' he took had to be real because he wasn't going to lie to me. It goes on and on. This affair is between your spouse and her boss is real. It's there. The only "evidence" that you need at this point is something concrete to show her. You're already witnessing it by her actions. I know it's gut-wrenching to read this but like someone else said, unless you want to live your life making sure she is using protection while with her boss, you need to accept the smoking gun in front of you.

[This message edited by newlife03 at 11:03 AM, October 5th (Monday)]

am I in the right to consider that there is something going on.

The two people who can answer this question are 1. your wife, and 2. you when you gather actual proof/evidence/facts, or lack of.

One cannot simply consider that there is something going on . One must confirm it with facts, then proceed to validate the facts. Followed by outlining the consequences, and ending with an action.

Lots of great advice on how to proceed with this thread. I am sorry you are here and I wish you courage to proceed in the right direction.

I just wanted to add, I read your post to my WW and she said, 100%, your wife is in either an emotional affair and/or physical affair, or at the very, very least, has terrible boundaries. This coming from a woman that knows a lot about affairs and terrible boundaries.

She goes out on Fridays to the bar, but advises you not to come. Because they talk about work? Have you ever thought about going up there the next Friday? Just to see for yourself. Also to see how she reacts and how everyone else reacts. Make sure you have your phone recording. Then she goes to a club claims to get drunk goes home with boss since you don't live that far from each other why didn't he just bring her home at 2 am. she gets home at 6 claims to sleep on his couch? If she doesn't have her car did she walk home with a hangover, or did he bring her home? After he was done with her? Now the hotel, she claims he works to be alone, you know why he won't work at his house? Because they know you might drive by and see her car.About the message, I'm sure she got one just not from the hotel staff. I would have blown my top by now. You need to react to this type of lying and sneeking around. Confront her at her office with the boss. Make it know to everyone she is cheating on you!!

Hi Usaskiteam,

It seems that you are seeking supportive comments sort of “that’s not an issue”, “you’re over-reacting” here. But my friend, you know what is going on. You have already seen the huge flying red flags, why don't face the reality? The collective wisdom in SI gave you very good advice, you are a professional, and you should know when to adopt the effective and efficient measures in order to kill the potential/apparent liaison.

At this stage, VAR and PI are viable tools to validate whether your wife has stepped outside your marriage or not. Advice from Bigger that calling boss’s wife is also a good suggestion to verify what your wife said is true or merely a lie. If the boss’s wife knows nothing about your wife falling asleep on the couch, then it also implies the clue that her husband committed somethings bad behind her back.

If your wife really engaged in EA/PA, then you just have been divorced without telling you only. If not, at least it showed she has poor boundaries. Maybe, you should consider seriously whether she EVER love you? Or she just used to having you beside her in the past ten years. You two just married over one year, it is hard to believe she acts knowingly to hurt you in this way. I have a feeling, maybe I’m wrong, that she is really in the scenario of ILYBINILWY.

Bigger and the other poster gives you very useful and invaluable advices based on their analysis, opinion and experience. Even though I am not been here for long, I have read various threads and noted that Bigger gave the most objectivity and impartiality advice. He pinpoints the most horrible consequence:

Bigger Posted: 10:16 AM, September 30th (Wednesday), 2020

“The worst outcome isn’t losing your wife – it’s SHARING your wife.”

If you still carry on deceit to yourself, believing the Swiss cheese story and not to pry the truth, it is your choice, it is your life.

How are you doing? Did you ever get the truth out of your wife?

I am not blind or being naive, i know shit happened. Though, i am going to try and see how it plays out. Ipopped by her work drinks and noted she had had a few drinks too much. She was sitting next to her boss and was acting very flirty. Her work colleahues looked at me and said i am a big man for putting up with this. They mentioned she does this all day long with him.

I had enough, i stood up walked around the table and told her we need to go now. She refused. so i stated it again and she refused. So i said if you are going to continue flirting with your boss while i am here, then you dont need your wedding ring. I took it off her finger in front of everyone and offered it to her boss, then walk off. She trailed behind me and we argued at the garage and then she stayed and i left.

Since then she has been very upset with me because now everyone in her department look at her with suspicion.

There are a few things I need to get in order and it will take until Feb to do that. Now that I have called it out, im going to see how she responds over the next short while and play it by ear and keep my eyes open. I dont want to lose the last 8 years of what we had cause she went a bit crazy in 2020... though, im not dumb to live a life like this, it is too short...

I have known her for 8 years and nothing has ever lead to this. This is completely out of character of her. She never would have done this, unless she had been manipulated by her boss. I think with the pandemic and the long hours of working it has worn her down. I am not making excuses for her or rationalising to make myself feel better. I am PISSSED, BUT, i know this isnt her nature... though, you will say she has done it. I'll give her until feb to realise and if things continue then F'her and im done and ill leave her in a worse case than she realises. Reality will hit her hard. After the confrontation, she has changed a bit... So lets ee how this goes. I appreciate everyones view points and their insight, it is helpful, thank you...

I am sorry but you are giving her to much time brother. You should look up affair fog and that is what your wife is in. The best way to wake them up from the fog is to file for divorce. Kick them out of the house, expose them.

1. You asked her to leave and she did not.

2. I would do a Poly if I were you.

3. Can she change her job? Apply somewhere else?

Also it takes two people in order to reconcile and right now you are the only one trying to make it work from what I am reading at this point.

Yes, i know in this group, i am giving her too much leeway and benefit of the doubt. Yes, it takes two to tango and she is coming around and i agree, she is deep i the affair fog. Though, the only way to get her to stop this is to quit her job. Which given our situation, being abroad means leaving. So ive already got things in motion to do that. If she wants this marriage then she needs to stop and leave. If not, i know the answer. Based on discussions with her she is starting to come around and get out of the fog. My confrontation to her in public sparked that in her.... So i am going about this with my eyes wide open and feel this is the best plan of action Given there is a family at stake and i dont want her son to be traumatized by something dumb his mom did.

I am also seeing a counselor and he too agrees that i am going about this in the best fashion, given our unusual circumstances. Given i seem to be the only one trying. I have also given her a recommended counselour too. So lets see if she takes it up. Her sister is also om my corner and think she is dumb for what she has done and what she is putting at risk.

You say this is out of character for her. BUT, it is in character. She continues to do it. Wherever she goes all of her goes with her. It doesn't change because she moves to different soil or across a body of water.

You've given her until February to come around. Another line in the sand. It'll be scrubbed out and another deadline given. And then another.

I have an advanced degree in scrubbing out deadlines and giving new ones. Only with my XWW and not other areas of my life. It doesn't work. Your deadlines mean nothing to them.

You should read up on "sunk costs". It doesn't matter what's been invested in the past or what the past looks like. What matters is what does the future look like. What does it look like from here onward. You've known her for 8 years. How many decades do you have in front of you? What do you want them to be like?

Before there was some doubt about an affair. Do you still have that doubt? Based on what you shared you really don’t have any more than you did previously. All we know now is that she interacted in what you consider a flirty way with her boss and that you two had a spat over her behavior.

Her colleagues: They know you and know you are her husband. Could you approach one of them and ask what THEY think?

I want to share my thoughts on two factors we can call “human interaction”:

As a rule, I tend to be the last in the office to know or realize if somebody is doing something to someone. But I have both seen it in real life and here on SI that generally affairs aren’t as secretive at the office as the participants might think. The colleagues notice how two co-workers always seem to go off-site to meetings at the same time, go to the same conferences, that slight touch in the corridor, the flustered looks when someone walks in the conference room, the overtime but little work to show for it… whatever. SOMEBODY has picked up SOMETHING and it’s in the office grapevine.

The other factor is the reluctance to be the bearer of bad news. We see it all the time here with the reluctance to expose affairs to the OPS. IF there is an affair and IF Sue in accounting or Joe in logistics knows or is fairly convinced then they are probably not all happy-dappy about it. But that doesn’t equate to them picking up the phone and calling you. However, the same reluctance to initiate telling you makes them reluctant to lie. I doubt Sue will tell you that nothing’s going on IF the office-grapevine is all about what is or might be going on. If Joe or Sue is reluctant to talk it will not be by lying or denying, but with something like “I think you should talk to your wife”.

The reluctance to be the bearer of bad news? That’s what’s preventing YOU from talking to the possible OM wife. You already have a blueprint for how to do it without mentioning infidelity (i.e. ask about a necklace to confirm OMW knows your wife slept over “on the couch”…).

Huffing and puffing and not talking until February won’t do anything. Neither good nor bad. It won’t automatically tell you if there was an affair or not, it won’t make the affair stop or start or whatever. I’m guessing that if you leave it this way AND IF OM and WW are having an affair then they will decide that it’s best to quit, been fun and all that but since crazy usateam is making noises then it’s best they just cool it. That will last for a month or two or three.

Hi Big and yes I have talked to the coworkers. They think that there could be soemthing going on. They are always together and leave at same time. The wife was not in country at the time and had come back a fee weeks after. Reason I'm waiting till later is once I bring this up and speak to the wife, I'll have to have my affairs in order and be ready to leave the country. Itll shack things up in both households and jobs will probably be on the line. So my reluctance to do this until I have my ducks in a row.

Yes they could have cooled thing off and/ or stopped. But who's to say she wont do it again. Best to cut my losses now if she went show remorse and change her ways.

Hi Big and yes I have talked to the coworkers. They think that there could be soemthing going on. They are always together and leave at same time. The wife was not in country at the time and had come back a fee weeks after. Reason I'm waiting till later is once I bring this up and speak to the wife, I'll have to have my affairs in order and be ready to leave the country. Itll shack things up in both households and jobs will probably be on the line. So my reluctance to do this until I have my ducks in a row.

Yes they could have cooled thing off and/ or stopped. But who's to say she wont do it again. Best to cut my losses now if she went show remorse and change her ways.

So I believe you are handling things fairly well. The things I might add to what you are doing is putting a VAR (voice activated recorder) in her car so you can here what she is saying to him. Don’t know if you discussed this the last few months on here but it could be valuable information.

Also I would clearly state “you can be my wife or your boss’s side piece, but not both. And if you are my wife you will be finding a new job or at the very least ending your work with this one and any contact with everyone there. That includes never contacting your boss again in any way.

If you don’t, you will be ending our marriage. If you do that means we will be returning from our time abroad and you will be finding a therapist who specializes in Infidelity.

These are non negotiable boundaries and actions if you want to be my wife going forward. There will be other actions I will need to see from you as well, but quitting your job and starting therapy are the first steps I will need to see. “

Usaskitteam I don’t believe staying clearly what you need should affect your plans to make things happen in February. She will respond positively or not. And if she doesn’t it will make it easier for you to make a decision.

I’m a big fan of honestly stating what you need. Infidelity is a series of lies in a relationship. The antidote is truthfulness.

Good luck.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 6:33 AM, November 12th (Thursday)]

I’m a big fan of honestly stating what you need. Infidelity is a series of lies in a relationship. The antidote is truthfulness.

So true. Remove the drama and leave the plain truth:

In drama world it's a secret affair with all the excitement of escaping the eyes of others, sneaking into hotels and all that. Once it becomes reality then giving oral in the car simply becomes trashy.

Thanks for the last post. I think I'm handling this well. Though, need to be more honest and straight to her. I have had conversations but she gets angry and keeps saying we have already talked about this.

I will need to have more evidence to show it has happened. She continues to deny everything and that it is all coincidence and nothing has ever happened. So before I go down that route I'll need more proof. A PI potentially could work. A VAR not so much, tried that over several weeks and didnt get anything.

Another food for thought, she has gained weight, has a bit of a belly, though still skinny by american standards. She also isnt changing the way she dresses or trying to look prettier. I know those are typically things cheaters do.

[This message edited by usaskiteam at 6:50 AM, November 12th (Thursday)]

Come February and you don’t have proof… What will you do?

What level of proof do you need? Please – it’s a real question. I used to work at getting evidence and proof that placed people in jail. It’s been some time but I guess there are still people doing time based on evidence I gathered. Now – to get evidence that works in criminal court it really needs to be good, but I don’t remember taking part in a single serious case where I actually said “yes – I SAW him stab her”. Generally it would be based on a bunch of scientific and circumstantial evidence like fingerprints, witnesses, blood…

For a civil case the level of proof is lower and the quality of evidence too. I’m guessing that if you presented what you have shared with us to a jury it would sway them towards believing you.

Look – Imagine you are walking along a road with your wife a few feet behind you. All of a sudden you get a blow to your head. You don’t see who did it but your wife is the ONLY other person there. You ask her and she says no, with her hands behind her back hiding a 2x4. You continue walking and WHAM! Again you ask, she denies. Again, you walk and guess what? At what point do you believe what you experience rather than what you see? You never see her swing the 2x4 but at some point you have got to connect a) she’s the only one there b) she’s carrying a 2x4 and c) something is being banged into your head. At what point do you stop believing her denials?

One question: What words do you use on her:

Are you having an affair?

or

You are having an affair.