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then I would always have that bandaid ripped off with new bits of information over the years...

Yep it's been like this for me for the past 12 years. This is why separating has felt like a relief to me. Any new info cannot hurt me anymore and is no longer my baggage. No matter how much my STBX lovebombs me or tells me he misses me. I don't want to go there ever again.

My STBX refuses to see any kind of therapist but says he would do it for ME not necessarily him so he is a lost cause. Plus I don't want to waste any more years with him white knuckling it. He doesn't think he's NPD or SA.

I never see it this way, I always end up wondering if I have done enough to save our marriage, tried enough, supported him to change enough, etc. Not sure why I feel like I m responsible for the brunt of the work?!?

I think that should be rephrased. He has done enough to destroy the marriage several times over. Why are you saving what he destroyed? He keeps killing it and you keep trying to resuscitate it. It's like you get the heart beating again and then he pours acid on it.

This is the role he has placed you in. His role is to do what he wants. Your role is essentially to pick him up and change his diapers when he poops his pants.

((HUGS)) Somber. This all just sucks and I hate that you're going through it. I read your words and I think "Somber is a beautiful person. This woman is kind, empathetic, generous, forgiving" and I wish I knew you in person because I expect that would be a blessing. You don't deserve this.

I am always feeling like a casualty in his war against himself...

You are. A harder thing to admit is that you may be a casualty in your war against yourself too. He is the one tossing pain and trauma at you. Your contribution is that you keep catching it and staying for the next round. None of this is your fault at all. Not at all. Living with an addict screws with your mind and self-esteem horribly. I fear that you just don't see how abnormal this is or how beautiful and worthy you really are. I fear it keeps you stuck.

Somber, I still beat myself up over it. STILL. It’s been five years of lies and trying. You know what? After their unfaithfulness, we owe them NOTHING. Not one damn thing. Yet read this thread and you will see they chose well. They chose amazing, kind, loyal women and just look what we have been dealing with? At what point is it time to shout “ENOUGH!” At what point do we choose peace? At what point do we choose ourselves, our sanity, our health? I promise you, you are a beautiful woman who has tried and done enough.

I certainly won’t tell you what to do. I just know what I sat in for so long. I am not out yet but he moves next week. We have managed to peacefully agree to a D and what to do with the kids. I’m praying to heal and one day find peace. To give you an idea of the mindfuck of it all, I STILL want to check his location and we have filed the D. Good heavens, you know? I just want to be free. We all deserve so much more.

I would like to offer you two hope. If you leave them, there will come a day when you could not give the smallest of flying fucks who or what they're doing. You will see it for the pathetic loser crap that it is and it will no longer affect you. You will know that you are far above it and you will cherish not having to worry about it more than you can imagine. You will be amazed and saddened that you were ever in such a relationship where these things were a problem. You'll see how outrageous it was. But you won't care as much about how dumb they are because you'll have your own life to focus on. That will keep you occupied enough.

Imagine, a day where you only need to worry about what you're doing.

Wow, I must've have been lucky with MC. The first one we went to I think was a drunk & totally was a no call/no show for an appointment on our 3rd session.

The second one we went to was good. After I caught my stbx in yet another lie, he recognized that my stbx was evading questions in a session and called him on it, asked him why was he even here if he didn't want to answer. Stbx said he didn't want to be there & walked out, this was all in the first 10 min of our 4th appt. I stayed after he left and this counselor is the one who told me that there will never be any change in him unless I leave and he was right.

My divorce will be final this Tuesday, 2/11. Stbx started a celebrate recovery program at a local church with a class full of sex addicted men. He's very hopeful and I got very despondent because we're about to be divorced and he's finally doing something.

My friends talked me into still going through with the divorce, I was thinking of postponing it. However, he himself told me the only reason he was going to this program is that I was actually going through with the divorce and it was pointed out to me that if I didn't go through with it I was removing his motivation for change.

Ups and downs, peaks and valleys have been my emotions this week. It seems I love him more when we're not together because when we do see each other I'm reminded of all of the lies & betrayals.

I'm hoping I feel some kind of relief & not just overwhelming sadness when the divorce is final.

idabel, I was thinking about you, wondering how it's coming along. Good to hear your friends in real life agree that it is best right now for you to go ahead and get legally disentangled from him. You will never have a better opportunity, trust me. After my D-Day 2, and his arrest for soliciting, I was able to get him to agree to my legal terms much more easily than I think I would have either before he did that, or very much later.

I have read often on the D/S forum, that there is a "window of remorse" in their behavior that closes after a time, and getting your formal marital dissolution worked out during that window is easier for the betrayed spouse.

As someone has told you, and based on my own failure to do this when I should have on D-Day 1, I agree: if you didn't go ahead with it now, it would reduce his motivation to tackle the difficult and painful work he really needs to do for himself - regardless if you were to stay or leave. His addict mind could conclude that since The Wife is still there, it must be "OK with her" to a certain extent, so long as he just spends years of both your lives like mine did, "trying to not act out, so she won't divorce me," rather than changing for the sake of his own mental health and growth. He has to live with his own inner impulses, and really want to change them, and it seems from years reading here, that most of these guys would do anything not to have to face that stuff about themselves.

It's probable you will have some times when sadness just after the D is granted might hit you (call those friends and make them throw you a party?) Yet I'm just as confident you will come to feel like others here have, relieved and more peaceful, especially if you have already found good peer support and a good IC. Sounds like you know how to take good care of yourself! ((((idabel))))

[This message edited by Superesse at 10:16 PM, February 5th (Wednesday)]

I think the reason the sa wants to do mc rather than ic is because some of the attention is off of them. In ic, it's all about them, and that makes them uncomfortable. Their lives have been revolving around avoiding their problems and feelings. That's why they are where they are.

Idabel, I too would say go through with the divorce. In the unlikely case that he completely pulls his entire head out of his ass, you can deal with that then. There is no rule stating that you have to stay with him and help pull. He got himself here and he can get himself out.

My friends talked me into still going through with the divorce, I was thinking of postponing it. However, he himself told me the only reason he was going to this program is that I was actually going through with the divorce and it was pointed out to me that if I didn't go through with it I was removing his motivation for change.

You divorcing him because of his cheating is still all to his benefit and all about him in his mind. You see that? He doesn't see it as you refusing to be abused any longer and taking care of yourself. Escaping the pain and trauma that he heaped upon you. He sees it as you taking an action to motivate him to change. He is still central. He has A LOT of work to do.

It reminds me of my XWH. He said stuff like "kicking me out was the right thing to do to help me hit bottom".

No, dude. No. Kicking him out was for my protection and me not wanting to live with someone who hurt me. It wasn't a game I was playing to wake him up. It was a rejection of his treatment of me. It was about ME.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 8:52 AM, February 6th (Thursday)]

Dee, very perceptive posts, here, thanks. SAs and individuals with several serious MH diagnoses share a deep-seated self-focus; it is core brokenness. Family members are turned into robotic "others" who interact with them or whom they can just use for their particular purposes. We are not truly seen as people they identify with nor can they empathize with us.

To such a mind, each of us are but one chess piece on their gameboard. I like that you were so astute in identifying that perspective..

Crazyblindsided and demolished, both your posts have always resonated with me such as they are sometimes a photocopy of my SA behaviour as well.

I’m glad separating has felt like a relief. I fear it will bring a whole lot more pain and craziness first and I Don’t know that I’m strong enough for it. We owe them nothing as you say, but they always turn it around so that we feel that we owe them everything. He makes me feel like I’ve given nothing, not tried at all, etc.

Dee, thank you for your kind words. I believe I am all those things too; however, also passive, conflict avoidant and perhaps too much an empath.

A harder thing to admit is that you may be a casualty in your war against yourself too.

This is a harder thing to admit. I need to reflect on your advice here!!! Your advice on Hope was lovely as well. Thank you. I hope to see a day as you describe!!

that there is a "window of remorse" in their behavior that closes after a time, and getting your formal marital dissolution worked out during that window is easier for the betrayed spouse

.

Interesting thought...I wonder if my window of remorse is closed...not sure I’ve seen much remorse so perhaps not yet.

I think the reason the sa wants to do mc rather than ic is because some of the attention is off of them

Yes I think your right here. If we were to jump into MC then it’s a shared responsibility to fix the marriage. When the real problem is the untreated multiple addictions which he would need extensive IC for.

Dee, very perceptive posts, here, thanks. SAs and individuals with several serious MH diagnoses share a deep-seated self-focus; it is core brokenness. Family members are turned into robotic "others" who interact with them or whom they can just use for their particular purposes. We are not truly seen as people they identify with nor can they empathize with us.

To such a mind, each of us are but one chess piece on their gameboard. I like that you were so astute in identifying that perspective..

You broke it down perfectly. Yes, we are all just pieces on their gameboard. It's easy for people to get stuck in that role because the addict believes that so sincerely that they convince others around them of it too. They teach you to devalue yourself and you wind up not really existing as your own person. You stay because they need you. Your own mental and physical health gets left behind as less important because after all, you aren't the one who is so sick and needs so much help from everyone. In the meantime, they are playing games with your very life and you're a willing participant.

I am very much not codependent (and I am pretty certain not as kind and compassionate as a lot of you are) and even I recognized those weird feelings creeping in at times. Your reality and perceptions get twisted up when dealing with an addict. You can forget that you are more important to yourself than they are.

Dee, thank you for your kind words. I believe I am all those things too; however, also passive, conflict avoidant and perhaps too much an empath.

In other words, you are a kind and peaceful soul. This is beautiful. This should not be a flaw. It only becomes a flaw when someone sees that and plays games with you. If more people were like you, the world would be so much better.

You divorcing him because of his cheating is still all to his benefit and all about him in his mind. You see that? He doesn't see it as you refusing to be abused any longer and taking care of yourself. Escaping the pain and trauma that he heaped upon you. He sees it as you taking an action to motivate him to change. He is still central. He has A LOT of work to do.

Oh wow. This really resonated with me. I think a part of me sees it this way too. Thank you.

Tomorrow we meet after he gets off work to open new bank accounts. The one thing he has never lied about or abused is our finances. 🤷‍♀️

Oh wow. This really resonated with me. I think a part of me sees it this way too. Thank you.

Of course you do. That is how being with an addict screws with your mind. Most everyone gets caught up in that dynamic. Even I had moments. I knew better, but I'd find myself feeling and thinking certain ways before I'd snap myself out of it. They are just such victims. I have never seen people more able to commit acts of cruelty and still make you see them as the victim. It's a serious skill. You have to be diligent not to get wrapped up in their worldview.

Today sawh went for a run. When he came home I was sitting on the bed playing a game on my phone. I was still in my pajamas, shorts and a t shirt. He comes up to me, bends over, and starts rubbing his stubble on my upper thighs. I thought this was his way of reminding me I forgot to buy razors when I went to the store yesterday. But. Then. THEN. I hear him take a big inhale. Ya'll. It was a way to get close enough to my crotch and get a sniff. I havent showered in two days. (Soaking in the tub as I type this though, don't worry, I totally shower regularly. I eas just lazy yesterday.) I'm trying not to rock the boat so I was just like "omg stop you need to shave. That does t feel good.", when I wanted to knee him in the face. This is hard.

OMG lifexploded. Lol

Oh my...hope you enjoyed your bath. I’ve been there!!!

I think we all need to rock the boat more!

Egg shell walking, rugsweeping and kindness to make it through the day is killing me.

My husband has not had much to say about me informing him just days ago that I know about his PA with my cousin. We have been quiet towards each other. It’s has been a quiet few days but the tension palpable. He is trying to be nice and hasn’t drank this week. I’m just sick to my stomach and can’t bare to look at him or talk to him. In response to my moodiness he claims that he can’t live like this and we should just put the house up for sale.

I have never seen people more able to commit acts of cruelty and still make you see them as the victim. It's a serious skill. You have to be diligent not to get wrapped up in their worldview.

Amen. I sometimes still struggle with that last part....

In response to my moodiness he claims that he can’t live like this and we should just put the house up for sale.

The right response is "Okay."