SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

but IME, getting involved in learning about his potential diagnoses will just drag you back in

I think I'm well beyond that point thankfully. He's still waiting for the magic pill or diagnosis to fix what ails him. I agree, most people with diagnoses, don't abusively cheat and lie and gaslight their spouses. He's got a lot of FOO stuff that clearly has primed him to be super fucked up around sex and a million other ways.

I wasn't there - I don't go to MC or anything with him. He claims his psychiatrist and his IC came up with this. The IC definitely knows the whole story because he was our MC for the brief time I engaged with that.

I just can't fathom putting someone with an addictive personality on speed, which is essentially a dopamine drip. Seems like a recipe for disaster.

Mandy, have you seen a therapist for yourself for the memories? Have you tried to reroute your thinking since you are staying and working through it? Like a cognitive shift of if a flashback happens you try to think of something unrelated instead that makes you happy? It can't be easy. I think laying out what you need from today is a good idea to do. Remember boundaries can be a great thing.

Update for me. The other week I was told he did see a prostitute the summer before the affair started. This was after confirming with him that I was absolutely done. I don't believe it was only one as well why should I when he trickled truth so much now(I know you are going to read this so yes that's what I feel about it and you know very well I have good reason to not have trust in you). Also finally confessed more happened with the friend I repeatedly asked about. Yet I am not hurt by that information. I feel free.

I'm still very empathetic to him. I'm still cheering him on to be able to handle his demons and find his own happiness, it just won't be with me at his side. I am not trying to screw him over at all with eventual divorce. Even the worst assholes deserve stability if they are remorseful for it. I hope he gets there. He is starting a 2nd group a specific SA one and also just started with a new therapist that is a CSAT. I hope he gets to a better place I truly do but at least now I don't risk my own safety as he figures himself out.

(((Mandy))))

I totally hear you. I'm not as far out as you are but it seems when my STBX-SA and I are getting along the best that the memories intrude the most. A part of my brain is saying, "don't forget what he's capable of."

I hope this day goes okay for you. You don't have to do anything that feels bad or uncomfortable. You can do something just to take care of you and honor your feelings.

Just need to post this here.

Valentine's Day? MEH! After the latest crap I've gone through with SA husband and his porn lies, I really don't give a rat's ass about it. I got up before husband and later went back into the bedroom. He was in bed and told me "happy valentine's day!" and I responded with the same. I go to slide into bed with him for a few minutes and notice he's got a washcloth stuffed into his underwear. His comment? "I was hopeful" meaning that we'd be having sex but I know he was actually prepped for taking care of himself. I said, "Looks like you're your own Valentine." Yeah, Valentine's Day? MEH! Double MEH!

Hi guys. Bare with me, I am catching up, so my normal long winded...

I came in feeling sorry for myself, not because of V-day per se (or maybe it is?) He is gone out. Is he treating his next supply with flowers and a false sense if security...another whore? You tell me. I guess it's how disposable I feel. Like I don't matter.

In saying that, reading your guys' recent posts have helped me snap out of it. You are all strong women and reading your stories, helps in not feeling so isolated. It's one day at a time.

I wanted to know if any of you actually considered going public with your stories or thought about helping others from a more public perspective, in some way? We've been left with the burden of their shame and in the sense, society has made it our fault. That "oh she didnt put out" stigma or they may be teeling others this story. So we are stifled into mutism. While, I dont care what others think, I feel its important in letting other victims know they arent alone. Most YouTube videos are made by sex addicts turned "guru" (just fucking NO!) or from a codependent model. Not that theres anything wrong with the latter, if you identify with that.

Younger women seem to be drawn to me and seek advice (granted, I'm a mess), but if I can help one person in seeing red flags (in their relationships), it would be worth it.

IDABEL - I do want to extend my hand. Good on you, for choosing yourself over the martyrdom that comes with being an SA wife! Mine will be settled soon, as well. My son is an adult, thankfully.

DEE- omfg! I can only imagine. Are you in therapy? This would have me back-tracking in B.C. mode, in terms of counceling. I was just watching a lot of documentaries about Aileen Wuornos (the untold stuff of the prostitute that was a serial killer) and the media kept calling these damn Johns "victims". The first one was a convicted sex offender (I'm pretty sure a pedofile, if my memory seves me right) and he was out running free. These men are pathological predators. She did their wives a favor, in my opinion.

Somber- I agree with Dee, trauma bonding is a real thing and I have wtnessed that you need to be cautious posting about it in the "general" thread. You will get very insensitive replies from people that dont understand how abuse cycles work. In my own experience, the healing isnt linear. It takes time to break away from someone and the longer the relationship, the harder it is. You may and will have times of weakness, but it isnt long before they remind you (once again) whom they are. I find if you look at it as a learning experience, it makes you stronger...as long as you're moving foward in your detachment, that's all that matters. I still find myself trying to squeeze blood from a turnip. In house seperation really fucks with your head. CRAZYBLINDED got it "cognitive dissonance". Another point in their irony: they have been doing it to us, all along.

SUPERESSE: """I have read often on the D/S forum, that there is a "window of remorse" in their behavior that closes after a time, and getting your formal marital dissolution worked out during that window is easier for the betrayed spouse."""

THIS IS VERY PROFOUND! I have not seen this posted. In terms of my marriage, I have not seen remorse. Seeking "help" just isnt remorseful and why I'm divorcing. The mediation has been smooth, in terms of him...but it's like salt on the wound...it feels like hush money, in every sense of the word. It tells me hes willing to pay me off, in attempt to somehow make it and myself go away. I feel very disposable, like his whores-power, money and control. It's easier for him to throw everything away because he knows hes incapable of empathy. Its heartbreaking. With narcs they see you as like another toilet, in the public bathroom.

SKEETER- my reply was so long (even more than this) and it made me sound like an ashole, even though that was not at all how I was trying to come across. I'll just say that in terms of myself and my son (we both have ADD/ADHD). I just got retested because it has been a long time. I can tell you with certainty that this isnt an ADHD thing. The ADD is just a short attention span, easily distracted and cant focus on tasks for too long. The hyperactive part (in adulthood) can present itself in random/impulsive gestures, sounds and words...this is the way my son presents... the other way (how I present) is long-winded speech(see my replies lmao!) and racing thoughts. With that (comorbidity), it can come with OCD and almost always anxiety. I am a compulsive snacker with an oral fixation; compulsively drinking liquid (including alcohol, until very recently). With that said, none of this causes a a chronic lapse in moral judgement. With SAs, there is thought to be a level of OCD there. However, the same chemicals in the brain are released, while having a bowel of ice cream. How I see it is if my life (or marriage) depended on my not consuming ice cream, then I'm not eating it. These dudes know right from wrong. They just dont give a shit, to the point of being pathological. I would heed caution on any councelor that wants to link that diagnosis to this shit because there is no scientific evidence to support it. It honestly doesn't correlate. In terms of my son and I, we are highly moral. A societal down-fall, apparently. Could someone have ADHD with an SA "diagnosis"? Possibly, but it isnt a marker.

Hi, Dashboard! Maybe I have some of that OCD too, 'cause I'm always long-winded, ha! Yeah, I likely do....

Thanks a lot for that detailed decription; you are one of the people I was referring to, who didn't cheat depite having ADD. And thanks for the compliment, but I can't take credit for that "window" observation, as I've seen folks here say things like it for years. Maybe I should have said "residual guilt" instead of remorse. But it still is true, I think, as the old saying goes, we ought to "strike while the iron is hot," but before they get used to us taking their crap and cycle back around to their entitled attitude. That's why I felt I had to hire a lawyer ASAP -like the next day after his arrest, to do a Property Settlement Agreement during the "shame phase" of his addiction cycle. I had seen this before and wasn't going to sit back and go through it again!

Dashboard, I'm sure you weren't coming off as an asshole. I appreciate your reply. Agree with all of it. I have ADD and I didn't cheat or spend every afternoon on cam girls and phone sex. My integrity is not at all impacted by my ADD. I suspect my STBX is lying, extrapolating or exaggerating about what his doctors may have said.

if my life (or marriage) depended on my not consuming ice cream, then I'm not eating it.

Exactly. And if I truly can't stop or don't want to stop, I'm going to figure out another kind of life where it's okay to have my ice cream.

He's just flailing around. I'm so tired of hearing his crap.

Superesse- I do agree with that...I think you hit upon something. My STBX has been cycling his abuse the entire time. The devaluing came everytime I would trigger. He would run away to hide in his room, run off to continuous rock clubs or go out and get a DUI... it's so sick and twisted....he did this, during the time he fucked them and still does it....just a chronic devaluing faze. His going out would cycle the triggers...so I trigger, he goes out again... hes emotionally retarded, theres no denying it. This tells me that these triggers are sending him out to pusish me once again with his dick. This is what motivates them. "Mother" punishes, he rebels.... mr. Madonna-whore, in a nutshell!

Skeeter- I'm with you. They circumvent information to their psychologists. I have no doubt his goes something like this, not long after D-day-

Him: "she screams and asks why and I feel scared....I dont feel safe...mom is mad again"

Hes seeking validation for his continuous shit behavior. Which will never help him, he doesnt want it. He sees nothing wrong!

Councelor:" If you feel unsafe, then yes, you should look for a "safe place", while sucking your thumb"

Him: "she gets mad that I want to hang out with my friends...I need out of the four walls"

Councelor" you need friends as a support system, through this tough time, so you can get away"

It makes you wonder if the councelor knows how these assholes work...knowing they need another dick stroking, to enable their shit coping skills, so they do it because they know they are hopeless...or do they really have them fooled too? I doubt the ex paints the full picture. The one where he has always ran away and it's for the same behavior that perpetuated his cycle. Does he actually tell the councelor that he goes out to concerts, while reporting back to his traumatized wife that he has women looking at him? Does he tell his councelor how he uses intimidation tactics of screaming and evil staring as means control....OF COURSE FUCKING NOT! Sorry rambling.

On another note- we are all moral women, it's part of why they keep their hooks in us. At the end of the day, they know there isnt better and they hate us for it.

As far women and ADD etc. goes, they are now finding that a huge portion of women that were diagnosed with ADD are actually on spectrum, but the UK only seems equipped to identify it, because women present differently. I have suspected myself to have for a long time. I obsessive (I hyperfocus on things no one cares about) on subjects like no tomorrow (lol no secret) and why I believe I such a hard time not thinking about this 24-7.

[This message edited by DashboardMadonna at 10:06 PM, February 14th (Friday)]

Dashboard, your hypothetical SA-Counselor dialog cracked me up! Wish I thought that was just you being poetic, as you often are, but I'm afraid it likely happens too often, since they realize these guys won't keep coming back like they need to, unless they start out by coddling them. In the counseling course I had, this was called "building a bridge" so the client won't feel all alone and just "shut down."

What I never learned is: if a CSAT starts out with that approach, at what point does he or she decide it's time to reverse technique and start calling the SA on his stupid baby stuff? Because it seems that once an Addict comes to expect a certain kind of professional "support" from that Counselor, that's what they expect! Maybe someone can tell us, some day.

I know from my coursework that there are a range of different counseling approaches. The best ones to use with psychopaths and criminals differ greatly from what the public perception is about doing "talk therapy" or "insight therapy" as these disturbed individuals do not have the self-awareness to put insights to work! And even if they gain "the head knowledge," that knowledge doesn't "get downstairs, where they hang out in the basement" of their brains. Literally. Some offenders (psychopaths) actually get worse after they learn to manipulate the therapist. I have seen that mentioned in research.

Speaking of research, could you pm me where you saw that research on female ADD actually being somewhere on the autism spectrum? I don't think I have seen that one and it sounds interesting! Thanks in advance.

Superesse-

Thanks!

No doubt! I totally know what you're talking about and agree. I seriously believe my ex teeters a line ...its more than covert. There is no love-bombing...its a total disregard. No emotion at all...if I had a video, I'd post it. During this entire ordeal, he fake cried (if you call a slight sigh crying?), literally no tears, not a one...it was honestly creepy. No emotion, just totally disconnected. When I cry he just does the intimidating stare down...its sadistic...not exaggerating. It's so much more than SA...hes pathological. Never once in our marriage did he come up hug me and say "I love you"... there was never this charming act...it was more resentment. I tried to stay busy with my mom (caregiving) and son.

They couldn't handle the REAL accountability. A councelor that gives it to him like it is. They couldn't handle being told to stop smelling their own farts...they would run away from counceling too. They are a lost cause.

I think the more realistic from this:

Councelor: " If you feel unsafe, then yes, you should look for a "safe place", while sucking your thumb"

TO THIS (calling out his bad behavior):

Councelor: "if you feel unsafe than it is perfectly okay to lock the door to choke your chicken, as a means to punish your wife."

What's scary is he admitted to doing this. One day I came into the kitchen I started talking to what I thought was my son (they look a lot alike and his back was turned) and when the ex turned around I said sarcastically "oh its you", as pivoted back to my room. He admitted later that it hurt him, so he immediately went back into his room to rub one out, as a means to punish me...totally pathological.

I realized at that moment this is what he had been doing to his mother and his incestuous sister. It became very clear that he saw prostitutes as a way to get back at his mother and sister through me. Everytime I called him out on his mistreatment, he shaved his balls (wish I were kidding) and off to the whores. I really got to see how very sick it is and I dont think this case is rare amongst these turds.

[This message edited by DashboardMadonna at 1:22 AM, February 15th (Saturday)]

Double oops

[This message edited by DashboardMadonna at 1:20 AM, February 15th (Saturday)]

Wow, Dashboard, you paint a vivid picture of this. I am so sorry you have had to deal with this kind of man. When you said "...his mother and his incestuous sister," that caught my eye, because my SAWH's sister also acts inappropriately sexual around him. I had wondered what happened in their childhoods, that she would behave like that.

It turns out that studies of incest - which are few and far between - find it is generally a "family sickness." Meaning that incest will somehow affect everyone in the family, even the "unaware" non-victims. From collected case histories, incest is often found to have run through multiple generations. With parental abuse of any kind (sexual, physical, emotional) they found the other parent often does not come to the child's defense, the child is not believed, or is punished for telling. And this rugsweeping by the parent damages the child's mental health just as badly as the abusing parent, if not worse.

In my SAWH's case, he was mostly victimized by his incestuous mother, but he also recalled that as a 3 yr. old, his paternal grandfather offered him a lollypop and asked for a BJ! He ran to his mother with this, and she "didn't react like it was anything." I saw he had no visible outrage about her dismissing it, either; he'd gotten the message: "that's just what grown men like grandpa do." And she was the one he ran to for protection? I bet the old goat had done the same thing to his own son, her husband. But his mother not only rugswept that abuse, she actively abused him, too, always disguising it as "love," like many perpetrators do. Her behavior fit that of many abuse victims who as adults, act out their power over their own child, because they get to "turn the tables."

He ran away from them all at age 18 and has never wanted to move back. In 2003, after he blew up our marriage and his FOO horror stories started to emerge, I had sympathy for him. I wanted to believe if he realized how sick it all was, he could somehow develop "healthier thinking" about the role of sex in love, and connect the two. Yeah, not. Because that kind of childhood sexual trauma blocks normal brain development.

Proof: D-Day 2 happened years and years after all this came out in the open. So I had to accept that he either couldn't or wouldn't be able to "fix" his lifelong attitudes and character defects. He was still acting out from his well of buried resentment - directed against ME. Because I was now his image of the "woman closest to him who loves him" who his "Inner Child" still wants nothing to do with! Very confused. We cannot tell how deep their resentment well is, and I don't think they can, either.

The psychologists who started the first residential treatment center for sex addicts claimed 81% of their patients, sooner or later, revealed they were sexually abused as children. The truth is: boys suffer sexual abuse a lot more than was ever understood, and the idea has been laughed off in the past. But it is so damaging. That's why I share about it here, to show that when this kind of abuse has occurred in the SA's life, whether he consciously recalls it or not - usually blocks it out - we aren't dealing with just a garden-variety butthead husband!

[This message edited by Superesse at 11:12 AM, February 15th (Saturday)]

He was still acting out from his well of buried resentment - directed against ME.

I think many of us can relate to this. Wow this is some insightful stuff here!! I can relate to much of it from childhood and my marriage.

You will get very insensitive replies from people that dont understand how abuse cycles work.

Yes I haven’t had this happen yet but it definitely feels safer in this thread to discuss to emotional abuse and cognitive dissonance. I am fortunate to have this thread to

Discuss even the SA stuff that many others just can’t relate too!!

skeeter, I'm glad you're not falling for it. In fact you seem to be well aware of why he is even telling you about this new "diagnosis":

He's still waiting for the magic pill or diagnosis to fix what ails him.

He wants there to be an "easy" fix. He wants you to think that with the right diagnosis, he can just take a pill and all of those pesky, destructive behaviors would just disappear, everything will be hunky dory and you can take him back. Wouldn't that be nice?

I just can't fathom putting someone with an addictive personality on speed, which is essentially a dopamine drip. Seems like a recipe for disaster.

^^THIS. I think this is part of the reason why I never really pushed for XH to get any sort of treatment for the Attention behaviors. The last thing my XH needed was more dopamine, he needed to learn how to get along with less of it. I didn't see how meds would be beneficial to someone who already has addiction and compulsion issues. And then I found out that he's been self-medicating with meth all along anyway. Turns out, meth is NOT helpful, whodathunk it?

allusions

I go to slide into bed with him for a few minutes and notice he's got a washcloth stuffed into his underwear. His comment? "I was hopeful"

Ugh this makes me angry for you. The idea of getting into bed and any object being there that isn't supposed to makes my stomach drop. It didn't used to. Spontaneity used to be fun, a sexy surprise. Now it gives me anxiety. I got into bed too many times to find an unexpected dildo, or sex toy, and was then told that he had done all of this research and it was supposed to be sooo pleasurable for me. Despite the fact that I had told him on numerous occasions that I didn't need any of that, that I loved just being with him. I know at some point I'm going to have to get used to spontaneity again if I want to be in a normal relationship again, but I'm nowhere close to that.

NMRS

I'm still very empathetic to him. I'm still cheering him on to be able to handle his demons and find his own happiness, it just won't be with me at his side. I am not trying to screw him over at all with eventual divorce. Even the worst assholes deserve stability if they are remorseful for it. I hope he gets there.

Good for you! I like to think that this is where I am. I have protected myself, refuse to give him my address, answer phone calls or texts, etc. But I do still root (sp?) for him to turn a corner and see his behavior for what it is - harmful, not just to him, but everyone around him. From what DD20 relays to me, he still hasn't. Unfortunately, since I left and he took in the mistress, who comes with her own litany of mental health issues that are far more serious than his, he has nobody to hold him accountable anymore.

I struggle with that sometimes, but I remind myself that I am not his parent, and I am no longer his partner. The way he treats his daughters pains me, and I hope for their sakes he takes it upon himself to change. DD20 has mentioned recently that she feels he is going to push her to a breaking point where she won't speak to him at all anymore, and he will only have himself to blame.

I do fear that one day I will find out that he died from one of his stupid decisions. Overdose. His reckless driving. Taking his anger too far with the wrong person and being shot. But then I remind myself that I lived with all of those fears while we were together. Daily, tangible fears that drove my anxiety through the roof. At least now that we are apart, I can detach. I truly do not like feeling that detached about the idea of another person's death. But I have to. I honestly fear more for what his death would do to DDs than my own reaction now.

Superesse, I agree that CSA and SA are so very linked. I think it's interesting that you mentioned that it is a "family sickness," because the same can be said for addictions. They truly do affect every member of the family, even if they aren't acutely aware of the abuse, addiction, etc. Also, my SAXH had CSA in his family - his older brother and sister were both molested by their grandfather. Who had apparently also done the same thing to their older cousins, and then was still left alone with the children even though everyone knew about it. I have a hard time believing that my XH wasn't abused as well. He insists he wasn't, but he was much younger than them at the time of their incidents, so it's possible he wouldn't remember, then grandpa was banned from any other family functions, so the abuse wouldn't have continued to a time when he could remember. But then again many pedophiles have age preferences, so he might not have fallen into his age range at the time. So it is interesting to note that the CSA history in his family, even if he was a non-victim, could help explain his tendency toward sexual self soothing.

Somber

I am fortunate to have this thread to

Discuss even the SA stuff that many others just can’t relate too!!

I agree with this wholeheartedly!

and like Superesse said:

we aren't dealing with just a garden-variety butthead husband!

so it's definitely good we can lean on each other.

FWIW, I also wanted to add that, although I've never been formally diagnosed, I'm pretty sure I have ADHD. So I am in no way judging anyone with ADD/ADHD or any other disorder. I think it can be a useful tool in helping to understand, and to support growth and change, but my discussion of it is not meant to be disparaging.

About 6 months ago, I was discussing some childhood memories with my IC, and she mentioned that I had "low frustration tolerance." This new phrase piqued my interest, and upon searching for it, I found a lot of info on ADHD. I started reading up on how it is diagnosed in children, and I noticed that a lot of the anecdotes/behaviors applied to me.

I've since taken a couple of self-diagnosing quizzes, and have scored fairly high. I then took a deep dive into the topic, and in learning about it in children, but also how it affects adults, I really opened my eyes to things I hadn't thought about before.

I'm not interested in focusing on getting a formal diagnosis, as I don't want medication. I would rather work on my individual behaviors. But I do find it incredibly interesting that we both had similar issues, but just chose to cope with them in such different ways. What particular mix of genetics and circumstances led him to become a sex addict, and led me to marrying one?

Interestingly, I went through a period in my early 20s (before I had ever even considered ADHD) when I really started recognizing where my behaviors were not serving me, and I made conscious efforts to change and grow. I felt like a very different person - in fact, a better, more well-adjusted person than I ever had been - when I met my XH.

I've had many conversations with my IC about how I feel that part of what attracted me to my XH was that I felt a certain kinship with him. I felt like we struggled with similar issues. Not only that, but when it came to certain topics, our minds seemed to work in similar ways. We just understood each other. I also felt like I was in the best place in my life at that time, so I thought to myself, well, if this is the kind of person that I am attracting when I am feeling healthy, and alive, and happy and very clear about what I want out of life etc., well then this must be the kind of person that I'm meant to be with. I felt like maybe, this person would understand me better than anyone else could.

I also often felt like, though we both had our issues including FOO, low self esteem, etc., that I was the one who was further along in the healing process. I had done a lot towards self discovery. To feel comfortable in my own skin. To value myself. To not automatically assume that the world is out to get me. To allow myself to be wrong sometimes, to make mistakes and learn from them. To recognize that what other people think or say about me says a lot more about them and what they are going through than it says about me.

So I kind of felt like his guide, taking him by the hand, trying to show him that he didn't have to feel this shitty, that there is another, better, more fulfilling way to view the world and to live your life. Sometimes he would take my hand and gladly and enthusiastically move in that direction with me. But other times he just couldn't handle it and would retreat.

I knew how he was feeling, because I had felt it too. I thought that it bonded us. I think, actually I know, that at times he felt that as well. But other times it scared him shitless.

I told IC at our last session, that I felt like I had made it through to "the other side" of acceptance and self love, and I was trying to get him to see the light. I visualize it like a house. I was inside, all safe and comfortable. I could still look through the windows and see the storm raging outside - all of the FOO stuff, the crazy up and down emotions, the shitty coping mechanisms etc. - but I had taken my time to gain the tools so that I could build myself this house to protect myself from all of that. And he felt trapped on the outside looking in, the storm still raging around him, and he's looking through the window, jealous of me sitting on the couch with a blanket and a nice cup of hot cocoa. Watching me be all emotionally healthy and working on personal growth, and instead of doing whatever he could to find a way into the house, he was jealous of the people inside it, and telling himself he could never get in. Even though all he needed to do was get the keys to the house, and he also even had someone inside the house who was willingly opening the door for him.

I opened the door for him, held his hand and tried to guide him inside. Sometimes he would peak his head in. Other times he would even put one foot inside the door. But he had been living like this for so long, that the outside felt familiar and comfortable. The inside - the normalcy, the calm - that shit was scary to him. So that's how our entire relationship was - he had one foot out the door at all times.

I did take that role as his partner very seriously. To help him through the hard stuff, especially the stuff I had been through before but had made it to "the other side". And I valued it very much when he was able to extend a hand and help me as well.

For me, that was the hardest part of all of this. I don't ever think of his A in terms of my looks, or my sexual prowess, or about what the OW has that I don't have, or any of the other "typical" betrayed spouse thoughts. I mourn the partnership I believed we had worked hard to cultivate. I was under no illusions that partnership would be easy, that we would agree with everything our partner did or said, hell, that we would even like each other all the time. But I committed anyway, knowing that I loved this person, warts and all, and just like I had lived through some shit, and worked through very difficult things to get myself to a better place, I would put that same amount of effort into helping my partner, through thick and thin.

I chose someone who had been through difficult stuff. I chose him on purpose, because I thought it showed me how he could handle adversity. We promised each other that we would help each other through even the most difficult of circumstances, and I believed him. It's why I stuck around for so long, through some of the most gut-wrenching things someone could endure. Then when circumstances arose that honestly felt like a blip on the radar compared to everything else we had been through, he bailed. I remember saying to him at the end - This, really? This is what broke us?

After I caught them, he got really nasty. Everything was my fault, of course, but at the same time, I had the story all wrong. He didn't leave me for another woman, you see, he left me because all I ever did was tell him what he did wrong. But one of the last things I said to him, before I went full NC, was look, no matter what I did or said in our relationship that you think is so terrible, I never gave up. I am still proud of that. I'm also proud of myself for letting go when I needed to.

Superesse-

Yeah, they almost all have sexual abuse in their background. Your SAs story is almost identical to my SAs.My ex's grandfather was an incestuous pedofile. He molested my husbands mother, as did her brothers...The grandfather supposedly did this to the my ex's sister, as well. I'm almost positive the Ex had this relationship with grandpa and his mother. The grandfather supposedly molested neighbor kids too, and no one said anything.

When my son was a toddler my husbands mother wanted me to bring my son over to meet the grandfather (I didnt know anything about this fucking freak), so I brought my son around. It wasnt until after the fact that his sister informed me of grandpa's "knee bouncing". I was livid! The entire family is a bunch of deviants. The fact the his mother still communicated (let alone let's her kids and grandchildren) around this fucked up pervert...just tells you how pathological she is. She was a drug addict, as well....surprise surprise.

The other interesting thing to note is that their lives run parallel with the wife and prostitutes (we know their background). Almost all of us dealt with some form of sexual abuse. As a child, I was this sacrifice (for a lack of better word) for the neighbor boys...I had no idea what was going on and my brother (younger) may have been involved...I blocked it out...it was neither mine or his fault...a neighbor boy instigated it and as I got older, I realized he had been abused by his older brother and probably his dad.

When I hit puberty, my father sexualized me...making lewd comments and it made me ashamed of my breasts. The ex took a step further, by not acknowledging my breasts, or me for that matter.

Then, I was hit on by men well into their 40s, when I was obviously 15. They informed me that they wanted to fuck my friend and I...their words...another instance was similar involving a gang member in his 20s, when I was 12...its just endless.

I thought I was able to move past all this and this shitty human being threw me back to this place...a place where men like them real nice and young (ex included) and easy to manipulate. I married my previous preditors. It affirmed to me that I am not worth anything as a woman. It meant objectification, fetishizing, perversion and pedophilia...like some meat market. Now when men hit on me, I see him everywhere.I feel like prey now. I dont think I will ever be able to be intimate with another person...I couldn't get past the humiliation.

It doesnt help that he neglected me in every sense of the word and couldn't get it up, when he tried. I saw his type and I'm not on the menu. It has to be extremely young and of other ethnicities...that is something I'll never recover from...he looked at me with disgust.

[This message edited by DashboardMadonna at 6:50 AM, February 16th (Sunday)]

HeHadADoubleLife-

I'm impressed with your writing skills... so much more flow than I can muster. Lol

I understand where you're coming from, completely. It feels like such a waste of time and life is damned short. I wanted someone to grow old with and now I know that will never happen. It breaks my heart. I know I would never trust another human being again. I feel very exploited and sexually humiliated. You cant come back from that programming.

It is a cold reality, when you realize it was him choosing you (like a serial killer), by manipulating you with a facade. He played on what he saw as your weaknesses, as a means to get you to stay. A lot of these men see women with huge forgiving hearts as a weakness and they will become whatever he believes you want to see, until the devaluing takes over.

They have to change the narrative to themselves and others as a means to move onto the next unsuspecting victim. They've had a lot of practice in blaming everyone for their shit behavior. If you reprimand him for shitting all over your Afghan rug, he will masturbate on it, the next time. I wish I were exaggerating.

What happened is that you exposed him and these men have a deep seated fear of public exposure. They go into a chronic state of damage control, in attempt to keep the fire contained. They care more about how strangers see them, than those closest to him. He knows there isnt any coming back from this, because of the absence of empathy. It's easier for them to dispose of you, while pursuing your replacement. Most likely it will be young (easy to manipulate) and based on lies about finances and how horrible we are as wives. When she bores of him and realizes his claimed finances arent there (pussy and alimony gets pretty costly), she'll move on. Not too many girls are turned on by graying pubic hair and pattern baldness. Then he circles back to the exwife, thinking they will tolerate another round of bullshit. They can never be alone. They thrive on the self-validation, that comes from exploiting others.

[This message edited by DashboardMadonna at 6:55 AM, February 16th (Sunday)]

I'll go back and read your updates in a minute if i have time before sawh gets home. I just wanted to post this real quick.

I also posted in JFO.

Well, the cat's out of the bag much sooner that I had wanted. Yesterday evening I was watching a show on my phone and the characters were discussing what it's like to discuss sex with your teenager. So SAWH says "I guess I need to get tested to make sure the vasectomy worked." A long conversation ensued where I had to tell him that we won't be having sex anymore. I think our marriage is past saving. I just can't fake that, you know? I did finally let him know that I know what he's been up to after he swore he has been 100% faithful and has not done anything wrong. Even after he realized I knew, he said "I only messaged Kim and asked her what divorce is like." Like that's ok? And let's not forget all of the other women he friend requested and multiple women he messaged and the few he had a conversation with. He was trying to gaslight me and try to make it seem like he didn't do anything wrong. It was unbelievable really. I calmly explained that I do want to divorce but that I do want to wait. He was mad because I've known that I want a divorce for a few weeks and didn't tell him and acted like everything was normal. But let's not forget the years he cheated on me and didn't tell me while having babies with me. I explained the logistics of finances and that both of us would be pretty broke which isn't any fun and isn't fair to the kids. I told him my number one priority is the kids and while, yes, we both deserve to be in a loving marriage, it's most important to make sure the kids are healthy and happy. I told him I would rather wait until our 2 year old goes to school. She can start full day Pre-K here in a year and a half. I would have much more time to focus on my business and would be able to build my business between now and then. We really didn't talk about it as much as I thought. He spent most of the evening with his head in his hands and then went to bed early after doing some research on 50 mile races for some reason. I guess he's going to really throw himself into running to keep himself sane, which is fine with me. He'll be home less. He actually seems stunned that I wasn't going to put up with this. I guess if this was his first slip up that would be different, but with his history it's completely unacceptable and to me, it's a sign of what's to come. And even more so, he can't admit that it wasn't wrong. I didn't mention the drinking. I'm just done. I feel sad for him. I don't think he's ever been happy in his entire life and as long as he keeps looking for happiness outside himself in other people he never will be.

I am REALLY scared because at this point I don't know what's going to happen next. I don't know if he will be content with IHS or will push for a divorce now. I haven't spoken with him today yet. If he does push for divorce now, I will be really screwed.

I did run fonelab on his work phone and nothing showed up. I don't know if it was only pulling current texts off the phone, if he never texted her, or if it's just been too long since they were deleted to recover. Oh, well. It doesn't really matter at this point I suppose.

I just can't fake that, you know?

Oh yes I know what you mean!!!

But let's not forget the years he cheated on me and didn't tell me while having babies with me.

Yes don’t forget that! He is trying to shift blame onto you. You are entitled to your feelings and secrecy while debating divorce and how that affects YOU. Keep putting yourself first. It’s the best thing we can all do for ourselves.

I think IHS is a whole new kind of hell, one where there will be many opportunities to gaslight and manipulate you. It also creates Opportunities to falsely reconcile. In my experience, My WH and I never officially separated but emotionally separated many times due to his infidelities. I chose to stay for our son, then until I had a second child, then until she was in JK, then until grade one, then...then...I always found reasons to stay. Unfortunately the behaviours only continued; worsened and have created an unbearable amount of pain to process. My children are now 6 & 8 and I am now often thinking I wish I left earlier when my children wouldn’t have known any difference. There is never a good time to leave and we always find reasons to stay (finances, kids, etc). And those reasons don’t change over time!

I am starting to think the ONLY reason to stay is because they are remorseful, empathetic and doing a shitload of therapy to recover from their addictions.

Just stay true to yourself and hopefully what is best for you will stay the priority.

[This message edited by Somber at 2:00 PM, February 16th (Sunday)]

What happened is that you exposed him and these men have a deep seated fear of public exposure. They go into a chronic state of damage control, in attempt to keep the fire contained. They care more about how strangers see them, than those closest to him. He knows there isnt any coming back from this, because of the absence of empathy.

DashboardMadonna love reading your posts they help me a lot and really understand the situation I am in.

Just today my STBX told me the reason he started sleeping in another room (prior to IHS) was because I wouldn't have sex with him. Now he is saying I betrayed him because I have decided to get the hell out of this situation.

From being betrayed in the worst possible way and now being told I am the betrayer. There are no words for these type of sociopaths!