Newest Member: UnsureAgain

I Can Relate :
BS Questions for WS's - Part 13

Topic is Sleeping.
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hikingout ( member #59504) posted at 7:34 PM on Tuesday, July 30th, 2019

early detour,

I *think* my husband experienced this right after a long stage of anger. I want to say anger kicked in around 5 or 6 months, and then he got quiet during month 8 and 9 and then he asked for a divorce.

I am not sure if that's helpful, because I think it's hard for the WS to know they are seeing a stage, and I am not sure if my BH would think of it that way. But, it kind of went, shock, denial, anger, and then complete detachment. Quiet. Avoided me a lot. Then, he asked for the divorce, and we moved our furniture around for in house separation.

I think at that point, we both kind of contemplated what things would look like if we divorced. Financially both would have been fine. Kids, okay not ideal but they are grown and out of the house. We talked about how we would still come together for family gatherings so they wouldn't have to choose. We talked about who would get what, there was no arguments. And, then I think even though we both knew we could both do it, and would eventually heal....we both kind of decided that we didn't want to divorce. And, after that, I think he started deciding what that meant. He said he wanted to be happy, and if we were going to stay married then he needed to find ways to move forward. And, we spent probably the next six months talking a lot, we started marriage counseling around that point (I had been in IC the entire time). It's progressively gotten better.

His POLF, if that's what it was, I think it was short lived. I have little insight into what he was thinking during that time because he was so shut down. Have you asked the other BS's?

WW/BW BH/WH Turnthepage My Affair DDAY 9/1/2017- 2 month EA/PAHis Affair DDAY 10/10/2020 - 18 month A - EA?/PA

posts: 5922   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Arizona
id 8412847
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hikingout ( member #59504) posted at 7:59 PM on Tuesday, July 30th, 2019

WS’s? Did you know that it was wrong to cheat on your spouse before you cheated?

How could you do something so wrong, despite knowing?

I don't see how anyone can say they didn't know it was wrong. So, of course I knew it was wrong. I do think sometimes we don't think through the devastation and we underestimate that a great deal, but no I think any person who cheats knows it's wrong.

The general answer is that we justify our actions somehow. I had one two month EA/PA - in my case a lot let up to that time period in which I took a lot of resentments and used it to fuel my entitlement in "doing something for me". It was absolutely a bunch of bullshit. In reality, someone paid attention to me during a very vulnerable time in my life and I leapt towards it instead of deciding against it. So, I told myself whatever I could to justify my behavior and make it not seem as bad.

I will be honest in saying - your spouse has a different answer. Someone doesn't go on to have multiple affairs spanning decades and there isn't something far more complex happening. But, suffice it to say your husband knew it was wrong, and he decided that what he wanted to do was more important. He prioritized himself in having the stable home life and eating his cake at the same time.

WW/BW BH/WH Turnthepage My Affair DDAY 9/1/2017- 2 month EA/PAHis Affair DDAY 10/10/2020 - 18 month A - EA?/PA

posts: 5922   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Arizona
id 8412875
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JBWD ( member #70276) posted at 2:09 AM on Thursday, August 1st, 2019

20 YrsAgo

How could you do something so wrong, despite knowing?

The simple answer is this- Humans routinely ignore consequences. It varies in magnitude for sure, and there exist “innocent examples.” But the degree to which one is able to do so is based on any number of individual factors that I think one would need a mental health professional to line out and dissect. If this didn’t occur throughout the world, there wouldn’t be a criminal justice system.

We have any number of ways we rationalize, try and push consequences down the road, etc. But how we can do it is the question that will be asked and puzzled over forever. The short answer is mental defect, selfish rationalization.

Me: WH
(Multiple OEA/PA, culminating in 4 month
EA/PA. D-Day 20 Oct 2018 41 y/o)
Married 14 years
Her: BS 37 y/o at D-Day
13 y/o son, 10 y/o daughter
6 months HB, broken NC, TT
SUCKED at growth and rebuilding

posts: 909   ·   registered: Apr. 11th, 2019   ·   location: SoCal
id 8413566
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Gottagetthrough ( member #27325) posted at 11:06 PM on Sunday, August 4th, 2019

WS- was sex better with AP than your spouse? I can’t seem to get over that thought. I can’t seem to get over thinking she was better in bed than me. She was older and Botha’s pretty as me, and I had “more” going for me than her. So it just be the sex, right?

posts: 3613   ·   registered: Jan. 22nd, 2010
id 8415339
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Darkness Falls ( member #27879) posted at 12:09 AM on Monday, August 5th, 2019

WS- was sex better with AP than your spouse?

In my case, yes. I knew he was, prior to the A, because he was my ex and I’d had previous sexual experience with him. He was not just better than my spouse; he was the best sexual partner I’ve ever had, out of anyone.

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 6:10 PM, August 4th (Sunday)]

WS - remarried to BH but not in R

D-day 2010

posts: 6316   ·   registered: Mar. 8th, 2010   ·   location: USA
id 8415367
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Gottagetthrough ( member #27325) posted at 2:37 AM on Monday, August 5th, 2019

Darkness Falls- did you go back to your spouse anyway?

I feel badly, like I suck in bed and Wh is conspiring me to ow. We are “reconciled” but I worry about sex and think is it pity sex and he’s like, “I know good sex and my poor wife is a cold fish “.

Edited to add- Wh has been my only sexual

Partner so I don’t know anything outside our relationship. Wh was also a virgin when we met, although he had more experience than I did. OW had been with over 80 men, by her admissions, so she has to know more than me about sex.

I just feel stupid and naive. Like I don’t know what I’m doing in bed . Makes me not want to have sex

[This message edited by Gottagetthrough at 8:41 PM, August 4th (Sunday)]

posts: 3613   ·   registered: Jan. 22nd, 2010
id 8415439
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Darkness Falls ( member #27879) posted at 3:08 AM on Monday, August 5th, 2019

My husband and I remarried each other, yes. We have a dead bedroom and have primarily only had sex over the last few years to conceive our children. Our marriage is not going to last past our kids growing up, and hopefully it will end sooner if I can get my act together.

I’m sorry you’re struggling in your M.

WS - remarried to BH but not in R

D-day 2010

posts: 6316   ·   registered: Mar. 8th, 2010   ·   location: USA
id 8415450
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sam59 ( member #42612) posted at 3:44 AM on Monday, August 5th, 2019

Darkness Falls,

As a BS I read and take a lot from your honesty over the years.

You have said your husband is a great father.

So is the physical connection that lacks within your marriage enough to let you look beyond your current situation to ending things with the father of your children ?

posts: 144   ·   registered: Feb. 28th, 2014   ·   location: sam59
id 8415463
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Darkness Falls ( member #27879) posted at 11:22 AM on Monday, August 5th, 2019

sam59,

The lack of physical connection is much less important than the lack of emotional connection/emotional intimacy. There is no relationship between us. I can live without sex. I miss it but it’s not my number one priority. What gets me is being ostensibly “married” but interacting in all ways as no more than cordial roommates.

That being said, as of right now, my plan is to hold things together until the kids are out of high school.

WS - remarried to BH but not in R

D-day 2010

posts: 6316   ·   registered: Mar. 8th, 2010   ·   location: USA
id 8415538
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20yrsagoBS ( member #55272) posted at 3:54 AM on Tuesday, August 6th, 2019

WSs?

If you’re a Christian, how have you reconciled breaking one of the Ten Commandments with your cheating? Aren’t you scared about burning in Hell?

My WH doesn’t think he wIll burn in Hell, despite the way we’ve been taught by our Catholic faith

[This message edited by 20yrsagoBS at 10:03 PM, August 5th (Monday)]

BW, 54 WH 53
When you lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas

posts: 2113   ·   registered: Sep. 21st, 2016   ·   location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida
id 8415999
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Darkness Falls ( member #27879) posted at 1:48 PM on Tuesday, August 6th, 2019

20yrs,

My understanding is that God’s grace is for everyone if there is sincere repentance. Christ died for the adulterers just as much as He did for the breakers of the commandments that warn against a lying tongue and a covetous heart, which IMO pretty much encompasses everyone at one time or another. We all sin and fall short of the glory of God. If we are sorry and strive to change our ways, I don’t believe He picks and chooses whom to forgive.

WS - remarried to BH but not in R

D-day 2010

posts: 6316   ·   registered: Mar. 8th, 2010   ·   location: USA
id 8416107
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AloneAndDrowning ( member #70821) posted at 6:40 PM on Tuesday, August 6th, 2019

During my husbands 3 month PA and the following 2 months of EA (the PA ended and carried on as EA when he returned stateside) ... the few times we had sex... he couldn't finish or it took him longer than normal like he didnt enjoy it. And only seemed interested when drinking. After Dday we strait back into amazing sex. A week or 2 of HB. And now we still have great sex.

So was his issue during from Guilt or was he thinking of her? Was he honestly not satisfied with sex with me?

My WH had a 3 month PA (while working over seaa) that carried over to an additional 2 month EA (once he returned).
Him 52
Me 42
Married 3 years, together 6.

posts: 102   ·   registered: Jun. 21st, 2019   ·   location: TX
id 8416269
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ChimneyTop ( new member #70914) posted at 4:22 AM on Wednesday, August 7th, 2019

Darkness Falls

I'm not going to judge you if you choose to divorce; I am only commenting because I got the impression that you're a Christian.

Have you read Malachi 2, the second half of Ephesians 5, and the start of Hebrews 6?

Ephesians 5 essentially says that the relationship between a wife and husband is similar to the church's relationship with Christ. The husband is supposed to love his wife like how Christ loves the church (i.e. sacrificially). The relationship is supposed to mirror our relationship with Christ.

Malachi 2 and Hebrews 6 carry that metaphor forward a little bit.

Malachi 2 says that the Holy Spirit is woven into marriages and that divorce is a violent thing that rips the Spirit out of a relationship, and Hebrews 6 is about how it's impossible for someone who has shared in the Holy Spirit to come back to Christianity after falling away. This lines up with Deuteronomy 24, which says it is an abomination for two people to divorce and remarry each other if one of them married someone else between the divorce and remarriage.

I am absolutely not meaning to say that you are going to hell if you get a divorce and am only referencing Hebrews 6 and Deuteronomy 24 to add light to Ephesians 5 and show that God really hates divorce.

Again, to reemphasize, I don't know your situation and am not judging you. I am only trying to share some verses about divorce because I got the impression that you're a Christian. Please feel free to totally dismiss what I've said, but please also believe that I am not meaning to draw a message of condemnation or misogyny from those verses, and am only asking you to consider how divorce interacts with the mystical nature of marriage.

---

On a separate topic, have you tried reading Getting the love you want? It has some good exercises that might trick you both into desiring each other on an emotional level.

[This message edited by ChimneyTop at 7:13 AM, August 7th (Wednesday)]

Me: BH
Dday 1: 08/05/19
DDay 2: 10/12/19
One child together
Together 9 years, married 6
DDay 1 exposed a PA/EA. DDay 2 was me discovering they were still talking to each other.
Attempting R

posts: 3   ·   registered: Jul. 2nd, 2019
id 8416532
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JBWD ( member #70276) posted at 6:58 AM on Wednesday, August 7th, 2019

GGT-

For me, sex was not better at all with AP. My BW and I had ALWAYS had an amazing physical bond, and it blew any other relationship out of the water. Quite honestly though, even though I was convinced I was “madly in love” with AP, it was that intensity of CONNECTION that I missed with my BW. It was what truly woke me up to understanding what I had destroyed between us, and now holding her is all I can think of- Because I won’t ever again. When I recognized that connection I recognized the mask I used and the masks I placed on others to make it all fit a narrative. Can vividly remember seeing this.

Problem becomes exactly what you’re asking: How did I understand it at the time that would make it so easy to set aside? This is one of those faith pieces where you need to truly accept that WSs affair down. I am a perfect example of someone who took an amazing partnership and shit all over it, and simply because I took more than I gave. It wasn’t the sex, it was your WH willing to deceive himself to accept the easy feelings of validation as opposed to the harder but more genuine openness and affection that would have enhanced the connection you had/have. Comparing sucks and I know it destroys my BW, but you’re doing it far more than your WS.

Me: WH
(Multiple OEA/PA, culminating in 4 month
EA/PA. D-Day 20 Oct 2018 41 y/o)
Married 14 years
Her: BS 37 y/o at D-Day
13 y/o son, 10 y/o daughter
6 months HB, broken NC, TT
SUCKED at growth and rebuilding

posts: 909   ·   registered: Apr. 11th, 2019   ·   location: SoCal
id 8416584
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Darkness Falls ( member #27879) posted at 5:33 PM on Wednesday, August 7th, 2019

ChimneyTop,

I will read those sections you mentioned. Thank you.

I hope I’m not violating the site guideline prohibiting religious debates with what I’m about to discuss. First, let me say that while I am a Christian, in that I’m a believer in Christ as the Son of God and the redeemer of humankind, I consistently fall very short of living a truly Christian life. My husband is an atheist, although he is a much better person than I in general. If you could see into our hearts, you would think he is the Christian and I the nonbeliever.

I am a Catholic and I have been taught that God indeed hates divorce. What I have never understood is how marriage relates to the concept of free will. We as human beings are made fallible and our nature is sinful and oftentimes we are just not as smart as we think we are. So, we marry. In my case, I married someone with whom I realized I am not at all compatible in most fundamental ways. I exercised my free will to marry....but upon realizing it was a mistake, according to the Bible, I am NOT supposed to use my free will to rectify that mistake, because divorce is an abomination. So....those of us who are believers are thereby sentenced to an earthly existence of misery? (I’m speaking in general terms; I’m not saying you personally are saying that.)

I don’t want to continue doing things God hates. I already committed adultery; that’s enough. But nor do I want to spend my life being unhappy.

WS - remarried to BH but not in R

D-day 2010

posts: 6316   ·   registered: Mar. 8th, 2010   ·   location: USA
id 8416752
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ChimneyTop ( new member #70914) posted at 6:52 PM on Wednesday, August 7th, 2019

Darkness Falls,

I don't think you're coming off as debating, and I certainly don't want to come off that way.

I'd recommend talking to a priest to work through the happiness question you brought up, or at least read through the Imitation of Christ by Thomas A'Kempis.

My best recollection of the Catholic position is that divorce and remarriage is only allowed under the "Pauline privilege" (i.e. an unbelieving spouse abandons/ divorces the believing spouse). Other than that, I think remarriage can only happen if the marriage itself is anulled / invalidated by the church. One way I think this can happen is if one spouse finds out after the marriage that the other spouse was sexually active in a secretive way before the marriage.

In regards to your overall post, I share your sentiment that we' all fall short of the glory of God and that we don't always know what's right, which is why I said I'm not meaning to judge you in any way. I don't know you and have no authority in this situation, and even if I did, I prefer compassion over finger wagging.

My personal opinion on the happiness vs. duty thing is that sometimes doing the right thing sucks, and sometimes we can find peace and joy in just knowing that we're doing the right thing, but I prefer to not think of things in that context. Instead, I compare how hard it is for me to forgive my WW and engage her positively in the wake of her affair to God's forgiveness and

propitiation. I am so grateful that God is better than I.

Me: BH
Dday 1: 08/05/19
DDay 2: 10/12/19
One child together
Together 9 years, married 6
DDay 1 exposed a PA/EA. DDay 2 was me discovering they were still talking to each other.
Attempting R

posts: 3   ·   registered: Jul. 2nd, 2019
id 8416791
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Pippin ( member #66219) posted at 11:24 PM on Wednesday, August 7th, 2019

20yrsagoBS

If you’re a Christian, how have you reconciled breaking one of the Ten Commandments with your cheating? Aren’t you scared about burning in Hell?

My religious background is: raised sort of Catholic, as an adult I attend Christian Science services from time to time (but I'm not class taught), mostly read the Bible on my own and pray, with occasional searches into other people's interpretations of the Bible to think about and understand areas I'm interested in. I've read Christian Science interpretations, Eldredge, Lewis, and a few others. At the time of the affair, I had not been going to church or praying for a long time, and I've resumed that now more than I ever have.

I believe the Ten Commandments were superseded/included in Jesus's instructions to love God and love one another. That encompasses the Ten Commandments and more - it encompasses thought as well as behavior.

I believe that I am forgiven insofar as I renounce sin. I have to renounce it fully and from the heart. Verbal expressions, asking forgiveness from a church representative, repeating prayers, getting on my knees and wailing, nailing a piece of paper with the sin on a wooden cross (I heard that on a podcast) are meaningless. They might help me get in the mindset of wanting to renounce or feel like some kind of punctuation, but forgiveness requires a totally clear and unequivocable intention to never sin again, hatred of the sin and loving the law from the heart. Then I'm forgiven. Not before that and not based on some behavior I can point to.

I believe that heaven and hell are experiences we have during life, not places we go after death. Closeness to God is heaven. Separation from God is hell. While I was cheating, I was most definitely in hell. I'm still there a lot of the time, but have glimpses of heaven and am trying to stay there as much as possible. I'm not sure what happens after death but I have plenty to deal with at the moment so that's for another day.

I'm very mindful of the rule against religious debate so I've answered strictly from my own POV/understanding and if there are responses that challenge or engage what I've written I'm happy to read them but won't respond. I don't want to be scolded or banned!

Him: Shadowfax1

"He does His best work with things that we would have thrown away. That's the kind of God He is." Nicole Mullen

posts: 891   ·   registered: Sep. 18th, 2018
id 8416901
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Pippin ( member #66219) posted at 11:31 PM on Wednesday, August 7th, 2019

AloneandDrowning

So was his issue during from Guilt or was he thinking of her? Was he honestly not satisfied with sex with me?

I didn't have this problem but the cognitive dissonance of an affair does a lot of strange things. I imagine the problem had little to nothing to do with you or physical sensation. It was probably guilt or shame or dishonesty.

My husband (the BH) has a super high sex drive and I can only think of two times in our lives where he had difficulty. Both of those times happened after the affair ended when I was still foggy and couldn't get out of it. It wrecked his ability. They say the brain is the strongest sex organ for women and I think it can also be true for men.

Him: Shadowfax1

"He does His best work with things that we would have thrown away. That's the kind of God He is." Nicole Mullen

posts: 891   ·   registered: Sep. 18th, 2018
id 8416905
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AloneAndDrowning ( member #70821) posted at 1:10 AM on Thursday, August 8th, 2019

Thank you PIPPIN for answering. That was what I was hoping to hear to ease my heart some. He said (during) that I was imagining things, or it must be stress, or his weight. But I didnt believe that.

Then as soon as DDay came and went.. within a week we had the BEST sex we ever had.. that HB lasted a week or so. But now we still have good sex... better than it's been in awhile.

I know she was prettier than I, and thinner than I. So you know. I'm a bit shattered.

My WH had a 3 month PA (while working over seaa) that carried over to an additional 2 month EA (once he returned).
Him 52
Me 42
Married 3 years, together 6.

posts: 102   ·   registered: Jun. 21st, 2019   ·   location: TX
id 8416934
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Gottagetthrough ( member #27325) posted at 4:07 PM on Thursday, August 8th, 2019

JBWD- thank you for this message. It’s so close to what my Wh says happened, and I’m going to try to take it and believe

It.

The strange thing is when we were separated, when he was actively having an affair, I felt this intense connection to him. He said similar things- like he bought a car during the affair, and got one with third row seating so when my parent visited, we’d have room to take them and kids places. (Our old car was not big enough to fit everyone) . I laughed when he told me this- I was like, are you kidding, we We’re actively divorcing, and you were trying to get me thrown in jail for not following the court order. He said, “I didn’t say it made sense, I just thought about us when I bought that car. I felt like we’d eventually get back together.”

Thank you for your post. It’s calmed some fears and anxiety of mine, and I hope to get through this time and really believe it from my husband. He’s a good man at the core .

posts: 3613   ·   registered: Jan. 22nd, 2010
id 8417208
Topic is Sleeping.
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