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This thread is for Betrayed Spouses to ask questions of Wayward Spouses. Betrayed Spouses are not to answer on this thread.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 1:56 PM, July 12th (Sunday)]

Butterfly, it is a known fact as a WS that our BSs don't trust us. Not until we show them that we are trustworthy. That requires consistency in our thoughts and actions. Our BSs need to see the work we put in, and our actions need to show a change in thought processes. Selfish or wayward thinking needs to disappear and we must put others (especially our BS) first. This takes time and effort on the part of the WS, and time and watchfulness on the part of the BS. As time moves on, and thoughts and actions change consistently, the BS can start to trust a bit more.

Butterfly, I’m glad he can see now that it was an excuse and admit the thought process was wrong. I’m sure she did follow through with it when she lost the leverage but he wasn’t too scared to continue the physical part so seeing through the fog for him is a good start.

For your follow up question I don’t think I expect my H to believe everything thing I say for a long time, but if I don’t lie I don’t need to worry about recurring questions. The work that I need to do to be a better person and a wife isn’t dependent on how he treats me or if he notices everything. I do get frustrated every now and then when I’m giving my all and it doesn’t seem like enough. My old mentality would make the problems about him that he’s not “all in” but I can see through my own bullshit now, new processes change everything. I still screw up and miss things. All I need to do is think of him with one of his old girlfriends or not having my kids with me and things snap back into perspective real quick. I just want the chance to prove the changes are real but I know he could chose any day that it’s not enough. There’s a lot of fear involved but being afraid and not doing what I need to only serves to protect me, not help show my love and remorse to my H.

Thank you Barregirl!

I agree with everything you said. I look for and see those things in my WH but I struggle to be able to tell if it is genuine. His actions look and feel like they are, bc there has been TT it makes it much harder for me to trust him. I feel like if it is genuine then why would he have continued to lie about the past? Anyway, I understand that selfish wayward thinking takes time to change and as he goes through his IC it can be difficult and painful to face his issues. Avoiding them has been his way of dealing with things (which isn't dealing with them) but that's what helped him get here.

I wish there was a way to tell if the effort of my WH is real. I'm seeing on here so many times that it isn't, false R, additional D-Days really have my head spinning. I will keep watching and hoping.

Sayuwontletgo

It sounds like there is a lot of fear for both the BS and WS. I commend you for the changes in your thought process!

My old mentality would make the problems about him that he’s not “all in” but I can see through my own bullshit now, new processes change everything.

[/quote I just want the chance to prove the changes are real but I know he could chose any day that it’s not enough. There’s a lot of fear involved but being afraid and not doing what I need to only serves to protect me, not help show my love and remorse to my H.

I hope that as you continue to be consistent, safe and grow for your BS continues to give you the opportunity to prove your changes are real. It sounds like you are on the right road, I encourage you to keep going.

As a WS how do you get to that place that I keep reading about: facing your own crap, digging deep, changing your thinking etc?

When you finally decide you really want to change and be a better person, not just for the M how do you do it? Where did you start?

I mean from what I understand the issues, train of thought, behaviors and all the factors that led you to being a WS are deep and go back a long way (even into childhood) how do you get to the place of being willing to face or see yourself in ways that aren't good or accept the reality of the person you were/are and commit to this great transformation?

My WH is working in these areas and I can see that he has made progress. In the beginning, all surface level general answers after we got through the idk. Then he realized that wasn't going to help him or our M -he had to go deeper. Some things he would look at and accept or agree with quickly. Others it took a little more time but then when he took a closer look at it, he would see it and have a change of heart moment. He has confessed and cried, come realizations that he has apologized to me for (things I haven't even mentioned or without me bringing it up) on his own. So I see progress but then other times its like he completely misses it! Its like seeing it in one situation is one thing but he may not recognize it in a different situation. That is frustrating for me and makes me feel a little

Again I understand its a process, how do you keep going and not think you figured it all out? what makes you keep digging and keep doing the constant self checks to make sure you keep growing, haven't gotten comfortable and stopped or yet started to go backwards. One of my fears is that my WH is doing the work and will make great changes and progress to believe that it is all in the past and he is no longer susceptible to making the same mistakes again. He knew what he was doing was wrong and he was living a lie but he did justify or lie to himself to continue doing it to keep him from facing the truth. He refused to take off the mask and really look at who he was and what he was doing by lowering the standards, making excuses for himself and justifying or the thoughts of -it not being that bad because he wasn't that kind of guy. I guess what I'm saying is he would let himself and his behavior off the hook by not being honest and calling it what it was- the ugly truth. I am concerned if he doesn't continue to constantly do the self check and really call things out for what they are then he could fall back into that place again. I am hopeful that the difference will be that before he wasn't able to do that, or see himself or things for exactly what they were but now having seen, it won't be so easy to just ignore. Any insight here would be appreciated.

I don't think that anyone ever figures it all out. People grow and evolve all the time. For me, the shock of dday, seeing my H in that moment, was eye-opening. I had long been a good person, honest, full of integrity, but I wasn't. I lied to my H, I betrayed him, I slept with another man after promising I would be faithful. I did this. So the work began. I had to look in the mirror every day knowing what I did and knowing that I can do better. A remorseful WS strives to do better. A remorseful WS digs into every nook and cranny to make sure that this never happens again, they tear themselves apart to once again be a person of integrity. The work is never done. It is a lifelong journey, with many stops along the way (think plateaus). Your WH may work, work, work, then hit a plateau. It is frustrating for you. Maybe bring it up with him. Say something like, "You have been working so hard, but for the last little while, you seem stuck. Can we work through it together?" That may spark something. As far as thinking he is done working, he likely knows that this is a lifetime job, but you can always throw reminders out there.

Butterfly

For me, it started towards the end of the A. I had always had some guilt about the A but obviously not enough to stop what I was doing. Then I happened on SI. I spent some time reading and was truly horrified by the stories. I started posting right before I ended the A and I was called out pretty harshly, but deservedly so. I was so deep in the fog that I couldn’t see past the end of my nose.

Once out of the fog, I began some serious introspective thinking. I began examining myself through an objective lens and didn’t like what I saw. The image I had of myself didn’t gel at all with who I really was.

Were I to recommend anything, I would ask your H to try and see things and situations through your eyes. How would Butterfly feel if I did this or said that kind of thing. It sounds very simple but it’s more difficult than it seems. It forces me to set aside my gut reactions and feelings to use something that was always a bit foreign to me. As an example, my wife is a very giving person whereas I was not. I have to try and look at things through her lens instead of mine. Once I started doing that, I was able to have more empathy for her and am better able to connect with her

All Wayward Spouses:

I am a BS currently in R. My question is since your affair, do you look at your BS different? Are you paranoid that your BS may have a revenge affair? Do you trust your BS differently now?

I look at everything differently right now. My husband spent years being untrustworthy. And we never dealt with it. I recently betrayed him. And you can bet the very foremost thoughts in my mind is that he will use this as a golden ticket. I am monitored every step, every keystroke whilst being locked out from him entirely. Willingly. Being mad hatters only adds to my fears as there have been trust issues for years. This probably plays into why I am where I am mentally right now. It’s a very destructive cycle. And to give your spouse free run while you are locked in a box is a very very hard place to be. But I put myself here so what can I do?

When fronted, why do many ws act with such hostility? Why express anger when shown hard evidence? Why intentionally make your bs feel so crazy and sad. This one of the issues I can't understand.

I do look at everything differently now. I am so thankful for every little thing. I see how full of love and grace my hisband is. I do not trust him differently, and I do not worry about a revenge affair. He trusts me differently of course and he is still working through things but it’s getting better all the time.

During your affair did you fantasise/think of your AP whilst having sex with your BS?

I've asked my WH this question before and his answer is no. He says he literally compartmentalised everything. From some reason it is bothering me at the minute. I know even if he did he won't say yes to me as he will believe it will hurt me.

So how common is it? I just can't imagine that he never thought about her ever, or imagined it was her he was having sex with.. Particularly as I now think about her all the time

I did not do this. ( think of Ap whilst having sex with Bh) but we did not have as much sex during A. Maybe 3 or 4 times ( he was gone a lot during my A)

Thank you Hiking Out. Your responses on here help me loads. You are one poster I always look for.

I'm not sure why it is bothering me so much. He had a strange affair really that if I posted the details people wouldn't believe probably but I am as certain as I can be that I have the most truth I'm going to get. He is putting in lots of work and is extremely remorseful now it is all out.

We still had sex often even in a dark period when we were barely speaking. I guess this is the period that I'm thinking he must have thought of her. After all they were in "love" and he was miserable with me.

Hate all this so much, I trusted him so much and can't understand why he would risk so much for what he got.

To All Waywards

First I want say thank you for your insights and post it has brought great clarity on a lot of issues I was lost on, I am a BH and many years post Divorced, and though helpful I dont think I would have been able to handle this truth when it was Fresh

Now my question is, is there any Waywards who wound up staying with the AP, and marrying them

What was your mindset how did you feel about the BH

My exWW has reached out a few times to talk and wanted to be friends and offered to keep in touch, but in a way that was secretive, I turned it down becuase I just couldn't believe anything she says and I was/am way to hurt to have any kind of friendship with her

Barrelgirl and ff4152, My WH has expressed similar thoughts (about the shock of DDay, carrying the guilt, realizing that he wasn't really as he had chosen to see himself all that time, and being willing to really take a closer look and see himself for who he was and what he was doing) I commend both of you for the work you are doing and very much appreciate the perspective that you have on the work that is necessary to tear down then old thinking and rebuild or transform yourselves into the people that you want to be. You have both given me great suggestions and ideas. Thank you! May you continue to search yourselves, work hard and keep going on this journey. I wish you all the best!

Did you do anything with your AP that you would not (or have not) done with your spouse/partner?

My WH was sexting all the time with his AP and it's something I could never get him to do (tried once on a whim years ago and got an awkward and kind of embarrassed response) and he apparently will not consider doing it now or anything even close to it now with me and it's bugging the hell out of me, not because I want him to do that with me (I never cared about it at all before so IDK why I give a shit now) but because he won't.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 11:30 AM, November 20th (Tuesday)]

Amethyst- I am sorry.

One thing is for sure I don’t think many of us ws actually feel like we are risking anything we are so self absorbed and just think we are completely covered. Not a lot will make sense in a situation that someone is preoccupied with an escape from reality, the energy all goes to that rather than really stopping and thinking things through...at least for many of us.

Many, especially men, can compartmentalize to the degree they can be present with their spouse sexually and in other ways. What does your husband say? I realize it’s hard for you to believe what he says but I just wonder how open he is and how reasonably feasible his answers are?

ThisIsSoLonely, I did not do anything with the AP that I don't do with my H. My H is not a fan of sexting and such, but he will occasionally do it. The AP and I did not sext at all. I can absolutely understand why you feel as you do. Your H gave a piece of himself to another person and withheld it from you. That is incredibly hurtful and damaging to your M.