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[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:15 PM, July 12th (Sunday)]

For WS how do I know my husband is not going to do this again? He is very remorseful. He says he would never put me or himself through this again. I want to believe him but how do u know? When you tell your BS you won't do it again, how can you be sure you won't?

[This message edited by Ascott58 at 10:24 PM, July 12th (Sunday)]

Hi 78monte.

A question for fww. Now that your affair is over, do your children come before your husband in your proiorities?

I think any marriage where there’s children, a wife and mother has to balance her children, her husband and her job or career. The same is true for the man in the household. He has to balance all that too. It takes a lot of work to do that and make sure you are giving everyone the attention they deserve. Sometimes, the squeaky wheel gets the grease though, right? I understand that during an A, a WS added another layer to that mix and took attention away from the other three, and mainly the BS and children.

For me at least, after my A I worked at juggling but also making sure I was giving my BH the attention he deserved. Our children are always a priority and he’d agree with that, but with work, you can make sure no one feels neglected or that they’re second fiddle and in fact that your BS feels special and loved.

Hi Ascott58.

For WS how do I know my husband is not going to do this again? He is very remorseful. He says he would never put me or himself through this again. I want to believe him but how do u know? When you tell your BS you won't do it again, how can you be sure you won't?

You don’t. That’s the honest truth. And neither does he because he did it, right? My husband used to paraphrase the “trust, but verify” phrase and tell me he lived by “don’t trust and verify” rule. I knew he didn’t trust me and that I cause his distrust. The only way my BH got comfortable and started to trust me was not simply me not cheating again. It was the effort I was making in understanding who I was, getting to the heart of my whys, and me learning tools and mechanisms that I could incorporate into my life that would help me become the person I wanted to be. It was a daily thing. He watched how I lived my life. At the beginning he’d monitor everything and I was super transparent about every details. No passwords on anything, off social media, I’d updated him on everything and I set rules about friendships with men (none). I quit my volunteering, changed my cell # and so on. I had to show him, not tell him. And over years, he watched and evaluated and got comfortable not complacent) and those things while hard at first became normal for me and I’m happy doing them now. No secrets. No inauthenticity. Honesty and transparency and it’s a wonderful way for us to be together.

So, my advice is you don’t know, and I wouldn’t trust what he says. It’s what he does that matters. What is he doing to make you feel safe? What is he doing to prove to you that this won’t happen again? What steps has he taken?

Ascott,

Mrs. Walloped really nailed the response to your question.

It really is an everyday thing learning to be honest and open. It takes time to get there.

I struggled when my BW asked me "how do I know you won't cheat again?"

The honest answer is I don't know. I never thought I'd cheat in the first place, until I did.

What I do know, is that I've spent a lot of time and effort looking into who I was/am and figuring out my issues that led me there. It took a lot of effort to get where I am now, and I'm still working on it. It also helps that my BW is supportive and we learned how to really communicate and not rugsweep.

Thank you, Mrs. W

MrsW - Could you reply to BSHusbandWI please. You seem to really have a pulse on things and your affair seems similar to his WW. MiGander did a great job, but I think your tactful words might help him.

Could I also ask if you ever detested or resisted your husband's reviewing/checking up? If he started to do it again because he got a bad feeling, would that set you back at all in reconciliation in your opinion?

Lastly - Do any WS here feel they have let the BS win more fights, make more decisions, due to feeling they "owe" their BS? I am kind of wondering about the BS ability to question the WS judgement with the proven past issue.

Thank you all WS here!

Any WS leave for the OM only to come out of the fog after a year or two and reach out to your WS you left?

If so can you explain what it was that brought you out of the fog? Did you villify your BS? What got you to stop villifying them?

Hi BSHusbandWI.

Is it feasible that you would only know the first name of your AP?

No, of course not.

How can that possibly be?

Gently, you know the answer to this. I guess anything is possible, but based on the little I read of your story, there’s a much larger issue going on.

She’s either protecting the AP, herself, or both. All are normal for a WS who’s caught. I don’t mean it’s right. I mean that it’s a normal reaction to try and minimize the damage and consequences, to gaslight, rugsweep, and shift the blame to you. Sometimes a WS won’t fully open up and offer the transparency the BS needs until there are no other options but to throw themselves at the mercy of the BS. Think of a cornered animal. Fight or flight. That’s what this is. I guess the question is what do you want and how much of her responses and lack of transparency are you willing to accept?

I’m really sorry. There are so many things I wish I could have done differently after my DDay and I read about others that either make the same mistakes I did or make others and I feel bad for their BS and for them. They think they’re helping the,selves and don’t realize they’re just digging a deeper hole. I’m sorry she’s not who you thought she was and you’re not getting the information and closure you need.

Hi DoinBettr.

Could I also ask if you ever detested or resisted your husband's reviewing/checking up? If he started to do it again because he got a bad feeling, would that set you back at all in reconciliation in your opinion?

No. I didn’t. It made him comfortable, I knew I deserved it, and I actually looked at it as a pretty easy thing to do to help him and show him I wasn’t hiding anything. If he wanted to see my texts or emails between me and my sister, SIL, and a few friends and neighbors, it didn’t bother me at all. What did bother me was knowing that he felt he had to. That is what hurt and what made me sad. Because I caused him to feel like he had to. I didn’t feel like I was in a prison or anything. I felt like he didn’t trust me with good reason and that just was a very sad thing to think about.

If he started it again - He wouldn’t out of the blue. We talk a lot now. He would raise the issue and explain why he felt he had to again and I’d happily give over my phone or anything he wanted. I don’t have passwords that he doesn’t know (passwords on my phone are to keep private things from my boys). But if he felt he had to, then it must mean something else is going on and that’s the important part and what we’d need to address and work out. So, no. The checking itself wouldn’t be a big deal to me, but the reason he felt he needed to is. Does that make sense?

Lastly - Do any WS here feel they have let the BS win more fights, make more decisions, due to feeling they "owe" their BS? I am kind of wondering about the BS ability to question the WS judgement with the proven past issue.

I did. I was very meek for a long time and basically agreed to anything and everything. I don’t remember how long that lasted, a year maybe? A long time. I didn’t feel I had the right to say anything on my own so I deferred on every topic. I don’t want to equate my M to Corona and the horrible tragedies people have gone through. But for many people this pandemic has highlighted what’s important in life. After my A, when our M was hanging by a thread, all the rest of it just felt unimportant. KWIM? All the things we each had our opinion on and pushed for or took a stand on that was nonsense. I just didn’t care. My focus was on my BH, my children and myself. None of the rest of it mattered anymore. And on top of that, I was scared to assert myself. I’m a people pleaser and actually reassertion myself in the M was part of my therapy work. But I had to get to a place with my BH where I felt comfortable enough about our M and the A related stuff before I did so. Hope that helps.

This is probably a really stupid question, but here I go anyways.

My WH’s AP didn’t know he was married or a father. He lied about his entire life, including his middle and last name. The only things she actually knew about him were where he worked. He used her for attention and validation. Oh and the occasional sex. He told her everything she wanted to hear... the I love you’s and so on. I mean, I pretty much hate her because she lied to me several times just to hurt me (or him maybe) yet I still feel bad for her...

Do you think my WH should offer her any type of apology. He hasn’t spoken to her in 3 years, but she learned the same day I learned about his A that he was married the whole time and lying to her. (Well I sort of wonder if she figured it out when the A was going on but I can’t prove it. Just a gut thing) anyways, does he owe her one? Or would that be a horrible idea?

Underserving,

Your H lied - but so do all waywards. Whether is is about being married, married to the devil incarnate, about leaving spouse for AP, etc, etc.

I bet the AP at least had an inkling that your WH was not single. Regardless, she found out for sure at the end and she also tried to mess with you by lying, etc. That is not the signs of someone who was blindsided.

No contact is no contact.

Around 4 years after D-Day I started to feel guilty about lying to my AP. I wondered whether an apology would help. After a lot of posts here I understand what a bad idea that would have been.

Don't let the AP back into your lives. And your BH owes you the apology, not the AP.

Thank you MCS! I’m back to feeling like F her.

78monte,

A question for fww. Now that your affair is over, do your children come before your husband in your proiorities?

To be completely honest, even tho my 3 kids are all adults, they will always be a priority for me. But it's not like I make them my #1 priority all the time or that I make my BH and M take a backseat to them. It's that if my kids need me, I'm going to be there for them, just like I have been there for them their entire lives and my BH knows that nothing is going to change that.

For me it goes back to my foo when my dad left my mom for his OW, I was 5. From then on I was never really anyone's priority, it was all about what was best for them, especially when it came to my mom. Everything was about her and keeping her boyfriends happy so they would stick around, nothing was more important to her than that.

So I grew up vowing that when I had kids, they would know that I loved them unconditionally, that I would always be there for them no matter what and there was nothing in this world that I wouldn't do for them. And that is one vow that I have kept and always will.

But, my BH feels the same way about our kids being a priority that I do and for us, there is nothing more important than being a parent. It is just how we are, how it's always been and neither one of us would want to change that in the other.

Thank you, FTR. My wife and i always put the children first and I believe it was one of many reasons our marriage suffered. I now put my wife before our children. She still puts the children before me, but on occasion she will give me priority.

To WS's who were confused about whether to stay with BS or leave the marriage to be with AP: is there anything that BS said, or could have said to you, which was the clincher for you to stay in the marriage?

Underserving,

Do you think my WH should offer her any type of apology. He hasn’t spoken to her in 3 years, but she learned the same day I learned about his A that he was married the whole time and lying to her. (Well I sort of wonder if she figured it out when the A was going on but I can’t prove it. Just a gut thing) anyways, does he owe her one? Or would that be a horrible idea?

It's not a good idea. She was deceiving herself, perhaps not as badly as someone who knew it was an affair but she was letting him get away with some pretty shady stuff because she wanted to believe it aligned with her fantasy. She has either moved on and improved herself or not. Either way a reminder of that time won't be helpful and your husband's apology will be both meaningless and painful. If he needs to atone tell him to find a way to do it that doesn't involve her. If you want to send her a message I might think differently but he should not.

To WS's who were confused about whether to stay with BS or leave the marriage to be with AP: is there anything that BS said, or could have said to you, which was the clincher for you to stay in the marriage?

The AP dumped me immediately with his DDAY. Afterwards, I pined for him. (I look back at that as stupid and a huge waste of time now, but I was in a different place then)

There was a period of time that because of that draw I had to evaluate if I could or wanted to commit back into my marriage or not. That was a bit of a bumpy ride. I went to IC, and by about two months in decided that in order for that to even be evaluated I needed to tell my husband what had happened. I could see this was not a decision that should just be left up to me as to whether we could R or not.

Now, that's where I think my story might converge with yours. The decision to continue a marriage here is not just up to your WS, it's up to you as well. I think often the lack of control a BS experiences in their life can leave a very big hole to be filled. And they will try and nice their way through it, or play the pick me dance. They will continue to give all the power over to their WS.

The only hope you have is to truly yank that rug right out from under them. I am not saying pretend, or manipulate. I am saying that they need to not feel like there is a soft place to fall if they keep choosing to keep you in infidelity. If I were you, I would expose the AP. I would put my foot down with the WS. As soon as the fantasy bubble can be popped and reality can seep in the better chance you have to possibly get a WS that you can consider for R.

You have to be willing to lose the marriage in order to save it. I know that you are vulnerable, traumatize, all your security has been sweeped away from you. But, you CAN do this with or without him. Concentrate on yourself and your needs.

For me, my husband wasn't putting up with anything moving forward. It meant that I had to decide and decide quickly what to do. Sometimes that decision just has to be made and the WS has to align themselves with it even if they aren't sure what will happen. You need to come from a place of empowerment here and understand you deserve respect and consideration you are not getting.

I have not read your story, my answer is just based on your question, so some assumptions were made.

Thank you, Hikingout.

For me, my husband wasn't putting up with anything moving forward. It meant that I had to decide and decide quickly what to do. Sometimes that decision just has to be made and the WS has to align themselves with it even if they aren't sure what will happen. You need to come from a place of empowerment here and understand you deserve respect and consideration you are not getting.

This got me thinking. Sometimes I have the impression that H is so confused that he'd rather I or the AP just opted out, since like that he doesn't need to make a decision. I wonder if the same reasoning doesn't apply to the situation where the BS gives a very serious ultimatum with a short deadline, of the type you mention above. What reaction(s) could this cause, I wonder. Admittedly my situation is different. After taking a long time to break off the affair and come back home, months later he is regressing and talking again about beig in love with her and perhaps moving back with her, all covered in the usual FOG confusion - episode triggered by an attempt of AP to self-harm a few days ago.

[This message edited by Tinnat at 9:41 AM, July 20th (Monday)]

This got me thinking. Sometimes I have the impression that H is so confused that he'd rather I or the AP just opted out, since like that he doesn't need to make a decision. I wonder if the same reasoning doesn't apply to the situation where the BS gives a very serious ultimatum with a short deadline, of the type you mention above. What reaction(s) could this cause, I wonder. Admittedly my situation is different. After taking a long time to break off the affair and come back home, months later he is regressing and talking again about beig in love with her and perhaps moving back with her, all covered in the usual FOG confusion - episode triggered by an attempt of AP to self-harm a few days ago.

Yes, I think that you are probably right that he doesn't want to make the decision.

Limerance is a bitch. I mean that sincerely. It's very hard for a BS to understand or even a WS who never experienced it. I definitely experienced it. I think what happens is that you have really wrapped your self worth around that person. If they don't believe it any more you are worth nothing.

It's a confusing thing, because I didn't (and I don't believe others do either) see the AP at all. It was my reflection. I was playing a role in the affair, and wanted to see myself a certain way. The AP was there to confirm and reinforce that. There is a lot written on limerance and a great article about romantic infidelity by Dr. Frank Pittman. The failure to move past it comes from preferring to live in that fantasy world, the escapism rather than really have to face reality.

Limerance can not be broken if there is any contact whatsoever. Your husband is confused because of the contact. Even looking at a picture or a social media page is part of what has to be stripped.

I do not know what the reaction would be. But he needs to know he can't keep going back and forth. He is going to have to face some pain from one of the directions in order to commit to fixing himself. At this point, he believes, whether he will admit it to you or not that he is free to do this and will face no reprecussions if it doesn't work out.

The saddest part about limerance is that a lot of it is involuntary. It's not involuntary what put you there...there has to be a decision to cheat and that has to happen for a while before it's fully taking hold. But it's like a drug, once you are on it coming back off of it makes nothing but sense to you. You know it's not good for you, you want to stop but the compulsion is something that has to be fought like withdrawal. I know some people do not believe that, but it's true. Coming out of that was a war with myself. That has nothing to do with the Ap being great, that has more to do with your spouse being sick. But, it's not the type of sickness YOU have to deal with or treat.