SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I looked through all of the phone bills I have kept...about 5 years worth. Almost all of the calls were to me, DDs, and 2 local friends.

I would suggest she has a burner phone which is why you have not found phone records. Stay the course with the VAR's. She is suspicious now, be mindful, but stay the course. I was stunned at her treatment of you. Total disrespect.

Best wishes

The following is an example of what you can find out with a VAR.

First you stir things up without revealing your hard proof.

I asked her point blank "Are you cheating". She denied asked why I would think that. I did not tell her about my P.I. evidence. I said you are out of contact for a whole night. I come back and you have lingerie drying that you never used with me and you shaved bald down there.

She did lie and said she does not remember the lingerie but she must have washed it and it was just drying. She said the shaving was just to spice things up.

I told her she hated the last time she shaved like that and I always wanted at least some left there so if she didn't do it for her or me then it must be someone else.

So she starts crying and tells me she loves only me. She has always loved just me and would not do anything to lose what she has. She did look worried and did not get angry. So she kept the lie going and would not admit anything. She then said she wanted to go out with her friend shopping so she left.

Space Ghost

Then the VAR.

I had a Voice Activated Recorder and our car has Bluetooth which was great since she called her friend. Her friend knew about the affair and my wife was crying. Saying she thinks I know about her affair and she did not admit anything.

Her friend told her to keep lying to me but she might want to end her affair. My wife agreed with her that it was stupid. So my wife then called her Other Man. Told him that I might know and he was really worried. Asked all kinds of questions? Asked how was it possible since they only talk at work? Only call on his phone which she synced up to her car. Told her to just keep lying

everything would be Ok. He was worried about his wife finding out.

He then told her that he loved her Asked her if she wanted to meet and she was crying. Told him how stupid it was for the affair. She said they needed to end it. It was not fun anymore and she was not going to lose her marriage over him. So I did get those details out of waiting a few days.

My wife has been sweet since then and I am glad I waited to get more information. I still don't know why she cheated. But I think that she really is still in love with me. This is why I was so confused. I still don't know why she did it but I do not think she is in love with the OM.

Space Ghost

This will be a quick update. She is in survival mode she knows things have changed between us. She had another talk with her friend. Told her she is worried that I have changed. I am not intimate with her and she misses that. She told her the OM wants to keep things going but she ended the affair. She is thinking of quitting so he leaves her alone.

Space Ghost

To clarify some things I did remove my VAR from her car. I found out what I needed so it was not necessary anymore. She does know that I know who the Other Man is. I will have the VAR on me when I return home to protect myself at all times. I do not anticipate needing it but I will have it on me just in case.

Space Ghost

[This message edited by Michigan at 1:08 PM, November 16th (Thursday)]

What I think you have on your hands is a wife who once cheated on you quite a while ago, learned from her horrible decisions, and changed her behavior. You probably won't find anything on devices she uses now because she probably hasn't cheated in years. Please keep this in mind as you go forward and during that time when you know you need to let her know that you know. The only way past this if you want to keep the marriage intact is together with no secrets between you.

Sorry to hear your story AmbivalentOne!

Here are my thoughts on this:

She has been lying and cheating for a significant period of time but what stands out here is the utter disrespect and contempt she seemed to have for the marriage and you - that in itself (as far as I am concerned) is way more than enough to confirm that this marriage isnt a marriage and is well and truly over. However, you need to come to that conclusion on your own. Amongst her contemptible actions are:

Fvcking this guy in your home and even worse, in your marital bed!

Being more than ready to chuck her family and marriage away for a piece of dick!

All of this says to me that there is no coming back from this. And all this for no apparent reason and now suddenly she is OK with you and your ugly self, small dick, stupid mind, bad job etc !?!?!?!?!

So ...

You need to plan this like Desert Storm and when you are ready go scorched earth on her!

She is the enemy not your imaginary wife (yes, you imagined her all this time). I agree with those that say

dont expose yet - wait until your legal ducks are in a row and you have done as much investigation as possible including VARs. The VARs may not reveal anything until you expose - that is when she may try to contact him.

when you do expose - do it piecemeal and see what she says at each stage. It will be infinitely more satisfying and effective if she gives you info that you dont already have because she doesnt know what you already know and what you have (dont show your hand). As somebody else said, show her the first picture and ask her to explain. Then the second one and again see what she says. Watch her thinking on her feet (and chuckle to yourself). Then show her a more risque photo and see what she says then. Eventually she will throw herself at your mercy OR attack you and blame you all for this. In any case you need to be clear with your next steps at this stage. Try early on in the process to get his full name and details if possible.

Then you go into negotiation mode and offer her a way out for less exposure i.e. if she gives you an amicable divorce you will go easy on the details you give others including your daughters. Remember she showed you no mercy early on. Have an agreement ready for her to sign at this stage (be ready to strike while she is still dizzy from your confrontation).

And as others are saying, and this is important, take care of yourself. Eat well, drink water, exercise and do the 180 to help your mind heal. Stay close to your kids and be ready to give them some version of the truth at very short notice (and I say some version to spare them the trauma).

As a reminder for me, when did you estimate this started and ended ? It would also at some stage be interesting to get her final version of why she did it (there will be many versions of this along with her many versions of the truth as you progress through with the confrontation).

Good luck and stay strong!"

If this happened to me I'd book a week long stay at a resort somewhere, leave her the evidence with a note saying I've seen a lawyer and be simply unreachable for that week.

Let her sweat it out like she never has before.

Sure she is probably over and out of that affair and what Minnesota said is true. But so? You deserved to know no matter what kind of wife she's being right now.

I'm so sorry you had to find us but this is a good place for advice.

It sounds like an old over-wth affair to me.There's a section in the I Can Relate Forum for those who found out years after the affair was over. You can find additional support there. Even though it may have been over years ago for her, it's new to you, and it is just as painful as if it was still going on.

Please know you do not have to make any decision immediately. It's hard to make a rational decision when you are in the first stages of finding out that your spouse has cheated.

If you don't find anything on her devices, credit cards, etc. very soon, I would go ahead and confront her. Not doing so is crazy-making in and of itself. You have more than enough evidence of an affair. If you don't find any evidence that it's still ongoing, you could consider a polygraph at some point.

I am sorry she said such hurtful things about you to the OM. I doubt very much if she meant them, even at the time. Likely it was something she felt she needed to say to feed his ego. Obviously she doesn't feel that way or she would have left you by now.

Take care. This is very painful and hard to go through.

With all of the horrible, disgusting stuff you have already found leaving no doubt she was fucking this guy for a long time, why are you continuing to look for more evidence? Not saying it's a bad idea, I just don't know what you can gain by continued digging.

Those pictures will make reconciliation nearly impossible. They will fuel vivid mind-movies that will make you sick. Since your kids are grown I hope you will end this marriage under your lawyers supervision. Your kids are adults and will handle all of this just fine given a little time. That shouldn't be a long-term worry of yours. Once you are able to leave, don't look back. Yes, you may have family stuff where you have to be in her presence but you never have to acknowledge that presence. She's chosen her fate and, after what she has done, deserves nothing but contempt.

[This message edited by ISurvived7734 at 4:01 PM, November 16th (Thursday)]

I don't know if this has been mentioned but quite often a cheater will have a fake name in the address book in their phone that would be used for the OM (might be a girls name or whatever but someone you wouldn't recognize as the OM. Just sayin'.

That must have been hard. I found "I love you more than him" message on the day we found out she was pregnant. What you found is way way way more than that.

I think you should keep digging and try and get this guy's name. The VAR is a good idea to find out if it is still going on. She will probably reach out to a friend so monitor those communications aswell if you can.

What is done cannot be undone. You have seen it all now. I advise you to try and stay as calm and relaxed as possible. Personally I would be reluctant to discuss the matter with her because you won't know if she is being genuine and it will just make you upset.

Just get out the house and spend as little time with her as possible (as you are doing). Don't let her into your head. Your life has not been a lie...her's has. Just look yourself in the mirror and be proud of the commitment you have given to the marraige and realise that any woman would be lucky to have a solid guy like you.

Who cares about penis size, that is just silly porn talk and is just pathetic. What kind of losers think they are smart with that kind of stuff...just sad and scummy. What kind of loser drags her childrens father's name through the mud and makes out she is housewife of the year.

I would buy her a big dildo and put it on the table and say "I got this for you because I know you like them big and hard". I really don't know what she can say to you...I can't think of any reasons or explainations she could say.

I always think marraiges are recoverable if the cheater doesn't trash their spouse, but you have been trashed to the extreme. It's just so sad.

Try and stay calm and do things that make you relaxed.

If this guy was married then you should contact his wife and balance the books at the appropriate time.

[This message edited by Smillie at 4:22 PM, November 16th (Thursday)]

You should consider doing what your WW suggested and go see your doctor, if anything to help you with maintaining your weight, level of anxiety, and lack of sleep. The thing is only you and your doctor need to know the real reason why you are "not yourself" lately because of doctor/patient confidentiality. Maybe your doctor can help you with some ideas for reasons behind your "change" you can give to your WW to get her to back off her hoovering over you.

Take a moment to distill the strategic advice, employing what you think would be the most effective for your situation--and end goal.

Shock-and-awe or bird-dogging?

At any rate, have divorce papers at the ready as a cudgel to extract any concessions you might entertain.

Edit for errors.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 5:24 PM, November 16th (Thursday)]

I agree with Sudra.

If you don't find anything on her devices, credit cards, etc. very soon, I would go ahead and confront her. Not doing so is crazy-making in and of itself. You have more than enough evidence of an affair.

I think her concern for you seems genuine. She sounds like she’s now the wife (and marriage) that you always wanted. She doesn’t seem like she’s cheated in a long time.

Personally, I wouldn’t hand her evidence bit by bit. Your evidence is way more than most of us have, and she can’t deny it. I’d probably leave it all out, along with some divorce papers, and as another suggested, bolt for a few days. This is simply to gain the upper hand and give her a serious shock that you may decide to leave. My reasoning is that it is more likely to immediately elicit remorse and minimize trickle truth. If you hand her the evidence bit by bit in person, what would you expect to see, other than a series of evasions?

I would seek out both the thread Sudra mentions in the I Can Relate section, as well as the advice of a few here at SI that similarly found out many years later. You can’t send PMs until you have more than 50 postings. But one I’d look up is Oldwounds.

Have you seen any evidence of payment or insurance filings for a therapist?

You have like the marriage for a number of years...what if she got help?

Upon confrontation, you want her rattled and distraught enough to reveal possible additional affairs--with the threat of immediate divorce if you can prove otherwise.

Edit.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 5:53 PM, November 16th (Thursday)]

I recognize you saw some images and read some things that are really hurtful and horrific and that will be hard to get over but you can do it if she is remorseful and the affair has ended. Most of us here probably didn't see all of the hurtful things that we could have but there were probably things just like that for us all if we had found it. It really shouldn't be any worse for what you saw than the reality of what she did as hard as that is for you to probably hear. Give yourself some time and talk to your wife when you are ready. You are getting a lot thrown at you but I will say that if she has the right attitude on this when confronted and if the A ended some time ago you have as good of a chance to reconcile as anyone I have seen on these boards.

If that is what you want of course. I don't want you to feel like there is no hope for you. There is and the mind movies, the remembering will fade given the right support from your WW, some counseling from you both and some hard work and serious introspection on her part. I think it is healthy for you right now to wonder how you will ever get over this. Much healthier than the people that come on here and say that all they want to do is save their marriage. You are in the right frame of mind. Lock down your evidence, get your questions answered from an attorney and start thinking about what you will do in different scenarios when you confront.

As many have said I wouldn't confront with all you know. Tell some and see if she comes clean. See if she confirms some of what you already know and more. This will be a good sign you might make it.

1. Going to NYC w/her friends may have been a cover story.

2. SI needs to prepare you for her likely reactions when you confront. Prepare you to see through her reactions, and how to use them for your best advantage. She will likely lie, minimize.

3. I completely agree with the soft/limited confront once you have done your forensics/data mining.

4. Several posters have astutely advised you to not reveal your sources, and how much you know. This will make her wonder about the extent and source of your knowledge. She may think someone outed her.

5. This then becomes the time period when she reaches out to someone to say, "D&C knows something...he knows about Michael". This will be the likely time you get a hit on your VARs.

6. If. If. If she admits to something in the soft confront you will want to tell her that she needs to give you a complete timeline covering her admission.

7. I will say it straight up: Number 6 is designed to catch her in a lie. So you gain more power over the situation. Your ultimate goal is the truth. It is extremely unlikely you will get it even after 1, 2, or 3 confrontations. Until you have broken her down by her wondering just how much you know.

8. Just sayin': be cautious about giving her too much "credit" if in fact it is proven she ended things. If so, she is only doing now what a spouse is supposed to be doing.

One addendum - she doesn’t leave that room at any point with her phone. Period. You get her boyfriend’s name and enough information to contact his wife.

She WILL be warning him so make sure, as others have said, All VARs and monitoring on phone are in place.

A GPS on the car will also help.

D&C, sorry you have a reason to be here, but happy you found a great resource for dealing with your WW.

You are getting a lot of great advice which will lead you in a number of directions. I recommend that you take steps that leave you as many options as possible. In general, being coy should be to your benefit after confronting her with enough to set the stage.

Perhaps the first two pics you found start the conversation, which is likely to elicit, “We were just good friends!” Followed by a picture or two that establishes just how close the “friendship” was and that’s it. Say you know more, a whole lot more, but don’t reveal anything. Ask her for the truth as a basis for even considering reconciliation. Ask her questions you know the answer to, and gauge her responses. If she lies, get up and walk away without saying anything. If she asks where you are going reply with something like, “I don’t have the time or patience to listens to what I know are lies. Come and find me when you are ready to tell me the truth.” Use the information you have at your disposal, and what she thinks you might know, to extract that truth, and for the love of God never let her know how much you know or where you found what you found. A thread or two by member “Walloped” will serve as a good template for extracting the truth from a remorseful spouse.

Say you decide to divorce; totally understandable given the circumstances. Use what you know and have I your possession to gain a favorable settlement. Again, don’t divulge the extent of what you know and how you know. Let the wheels spin in her mind about all the shady shit she’s pulled on you. I suspect this may not have been her first rodeo....

I agree.

Anyone who was as bold and disrespectful as your ww is likely to have had more than one affair, even though she's 'picture perfect' today.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 7:38 PM, November 16th (Thursday)]

Can we please remember DazedandConfused is a brand new member? The shock of discovery is brand new with him.

Please remember how you felt. Post appropriately. How much good will the advice be if he is driven away.

Welcome Dazed and Confused. I'm sorry you had to find us, but I'm damn glad you made it.